From mbest at triad.rr.com Mon Aug 1 20:11:40 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Mon Aug 1 20:11:49 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] politically incorrect news Message-ID: <000201c5970f$e79d8190$6401a8c0@mikey> Researchers at Duke University have reversed Parkinson's disease in mice by administering Ecstasy (MDMA), and/or methamphetamine (Crystal Meth/Ice/Crank). However, these results cannot be published yet. I wonder why??? From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 2 02:12:50 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 2 02:13:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] politically incorrect news In-Reply-To: <000201c5970f$e79d8190$6401a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 01, 2005 11:11:40 PM Message-ID: <20050802091250.25610.qmail@mall-net.com> > Researchers at Duke University have reversed Parkinson's disease in mice by > administering Ecstasy (MDMA), and/or methamphetamine (Crystal > Meth/Ice/Crank). So? > However, these results cannot be published yet. > > I wonder why??? Because in the longer term, those will damage, even kill the patient. Anything releasing large doses of adrenaline and rasing blood pressure will help these people in the short run. In the slightly longer run, they burn out. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Tue Aug 2 09:33:52 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Tue Aug 2 09:33:58 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Nineteen Million Amperes (Owch!) Message-ID: <002401c5977f$f8430630$6401a8c0@mikey> http://www.nv.doe.gov/news&pubs/newsreleases/Pdfs/ATLAS_Resumes_Work_NTS_072 72005.pdf From mbest at triad.rr.com Tue Aug 2 09:53:37 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Tue Aug 2 09:53:47 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Micrix Message-ID: <003301c59782$bc053e10$6401a8c0@mikey> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4727267.stm From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 2 21:14:31 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 2 21:14:39 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] An earthbound species... for now. In-Reply-To: <20050802091250.25610.qmail@mall-net.com> from "javilk@mall-net.com" at Aug 02, 2005 09:12:50 AM Message-ID: <20050803041431.91366.qmail@mall-net.com> FAA estimates of cancer risk due to cosmic rays suggest Mars out of reach. 10 - 15% chance of cancer due to length of journey. Also risk of cataracts and brain damage. http://www.newscientistspace.com/article.ns?id=dn7753 Very, very disheartening to think of us as a terrestrial species. The solution is 32 feet of water outside the spacecraft. We are going to need it, so why not use it as shielding. The problem, of course, is weight, meaning fuel. Since this is based upon time, if we can perfect a faster means of travel, this limit might be extended somewhat. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 00:11:56 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 3 00:12:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] I'm both sad, and mad. Message-ID: <20050803071156.38987.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> I'm both sad, and mad, because the future falls apart. Clyde --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050803/7189a3c1/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 3 02:15:30 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 3 02:15:49 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] I'm both sad, and mad. In-Reply-To: <20050803071156.38987.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 03, 2005 12:11:56 AM Message-ID: <20050803091530.4147.qmail@mall-net.com> > I'm both sad, and mad, because > the future falls apart. The future can't fall apart because we haven't put it together yet! So, so maybe one way is impossible, or at least unlikely for now. So we'll just put it together some other way, some way that fits better. The future will happen regardless of what we do. It just may happen a little differently. When I was younger, I didn't have a lot of faith in the future. My parents were immigrants, their world having been thrown upside down and shattered by war. I thought it likely this would happen in my life. We made plans where to go if America was bombed by the other side, under what conditions to wait for other family members, and under what conditions to just GO and do your darndest to get to Australia, where we had other relatives. Instead, Americans invested in the future, bought land, leased it, built on it, and generally assumed there wouldn't be a war. The future came, the war didn't. Even 9/11 didn't destroy our future. Not any more than fear held it off for a while, crippling weaker endeavors. But the main thrust kept on. GE, IBM, Intel... just about all the stocks came back, and are still coming back. I remember quite graphically, being in a department store's going out of business sale when President Nixon came on and gave his farewell speech in the middle of some very bad economic times. How fitting, I thought, this store going out of business as Nixon was going out of business. Is American going out of business? Gerald Ford took over. President Ford's prudent economic goals got the economy back on track. Jimmy the Peanut was elected, and under his "leadership", the economy went to hell! Stagflation! Rampant inflation with stagnation in industry. The End of the American Dream, and a lot else! An actor spoke to the people, a mere actor, I thought. His words were good, but, an actor? Well, his words were better than the peanut farmer's. Nothing could be worse than that peanut farmer! The actors spoke of that shining city on the hill. He had faith in us, each and every one of us individually, and together as a nation. He inspired us. So I voted for the actor. The day after the election, industry started planning. Everyone knew stagflation would end. Two months later, I was working designing. Two years later, everyone was working building, planning and designing again as all boats rose on the tide of faith and action. Clyde, Faith is important. So is action. The future will happen. Invest in it. Invest in yourself, that you be able to participate in that future. And when the future changes, change with it. Space travel impossible? Maybe today. But tomorrow? That Tomorrow may take longer than we had hoped. But have faith, it will come. And we mad scientists will help pave the way. Not all of our ideas will come to fruition. Indeed, few will. But if we didn't try, and try many things, the good things would not be discovered. It's like running a relay race. Only the last runner will score. But all the runners contribute to that score. Even those of us who fail, inspire others to try harder. And so, there are winners. But unlike a race, in an economy, we all win as more is made for us all. The future will happen. Invest in yourself that you be able to participate in it. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 07:36:30 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 3 07:37:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] (NECCESSARY FIFTH REVISION:) RADIOACTIVITY. Message-ID: <20050803143630.26010.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> (NECCESSARY FIFTH REVISION:) Song: Radioactivity; (Cover version) Original song, by: Ralf Huetter, and Florian Schneider; (Kraftwerk). Lyrical cover, by: Clyde Lofton. RADIOACTIVITY: (Spoken/ with Morse Code:) Stop nuclear radioactivity. ...---... Stop nuclear radioactivity. ...---... Stop nuclear radioactivity. ...---... It's about Alpha radioactivity vs. Omega radioactivity. Stop nuclear radioactivity. Harmful high frequency negative energy. Detrimental to humanity. Destructor of unity. Anti nuclear radioactivity. Is in the air for you and me. Population unification, rejuvination, and regeneration. But stop nuclear radioactivity. Harmful high frequency negative energy. Detrimental to biology. Destructor of unity. Not all radioactivity is in the air for you and me. Stop nuclear radioactivity. Nuclear ionization, and mutation. Mass degeneration: population. Stop nuclear radioactivity. It isn't in the air for you and me. Nuclear radioactivity. Nuclear radio-ation. Causes mass divided population. Destructor of unity. Destructor of unity. Destructor of unity. Stop nuclear radioactivity. ...---... Stop nuclear radioactivity. ...---... Stop nuclear radioactivity. ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... ...---... (Etc....) (Repeat S.O.S. Morse Code, until the song fades out.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050803/3ea8c602/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Wed Aug 3 13:57:57 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 3 13:58:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] An earthbound species... for now. Message-ID: <1d9.41b62403.302289d5@aol.com> In a message dated 8/3/2005 12:15:08 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: Very, very disheartening to think of us as a terrestrial species. What is wrong with living as we were born to live, a citizen of Planet Earth We have so much left to learn about our home, even 100 years from now , a new discovery will still happen year by year. I don't think we will as a species ever know EVERYTHING there is to know about our amazing planet. Since we are having problems going UP, lets go DOWN. 3/4 of earth is water, unexplored. What's under all that water? Lets, instead of planing ways to live on Mars, plan on ways to live underwater Something that really surprised me yesterday kind of fits in here. I got a Yen for Maine lobster, all I could think about. This is the time of year lobsters shed, their shells are soft and there is about a 20% meat to shell weight. Prices go down because no one wants to buy food by the pound when 80% of that is bone. While waiting at the deli section to order my dinner, I checked out all the seafood. Guess what ? Only the Maine Lobster was natural. Yup, everything else was sea farmed. How strange, I live 3 miles from the Atlantic ocean yet I cannot buy wild caught fish at this time. Red tide took out our native clams and oysters, have to get them from a farm in South America. I believe that by not being able to go into space at this time, we may save our planet and humanity. Governments that believe that there is no escape from the big blue ball will have to rethink their priorities and begin to insist that we take care of our home, find a way to curb pollution to as low level as possible. Knowing we are stuck here, we may have a chance to solve earths greatest mysteries, cure disease and put a dent in world hunger. All the mega-billions spent on space programs, if used to research the energy options would one way or another benefit more people in the next 50 years then sending 25 people to Mars for a month or so. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050803/9bef080d/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Wed Aug 3 14:30:59 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 3 14:31:20 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] I'm both sad, and mad. Message-ID: In a message dated 8/3/2005 3:12:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: I'm both sad, and mad, because the future falls apart. Don't bet the farm on that one Clyde. Since man crawled out of the DNA soup on earth, they as the animals have gazed at the heavens. Both man and animal both howled a the moon and ancient man kept track of the stars. Man a curious creature did then as now dream of going to the heavens , they like the bear wanted to go over the mountain just to see what he could see Had Europe, Africa and Asia all gotten together in the year 1490 in a cooperation to go to the stars, pooled their king domes money, talent, and visionaries, spent 25 years on the project, just think how history would have changed for the people of South America. Had the dream been so strong, perhaps the Americas would never been found. When people put a dream ahead of reality, ahead of necessity and survival, that right there is insane and really, really stupid. Perhaps our space program is not working at this time because it is not in our best interests or that of our planet. Don't worry Clyde, good always wins out, that's why people believe in God, if evil ever won no one would be religious. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050803/6fdebe20/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 3 21:12:35 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 3 21:12:45 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Test & Measurement Technology Guide In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050804041235.75681.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> NASA TECH BRIEFS & TECH HORIZONS wrote: FREE PRODUCT INFO FROM NASA TECH BRIEFS Welcome to NASA Tech Briefs' Test & Measurement eGuide, a free service for our subscribers involved in purchasing test & measurement instruments and software. Now you instantly can request information from test & measurement companies recently featured in NASA Tech Briefs and Technology Horizons magazines. Simply click on the link below that will provide you access to supplier company Websites, parts and equipment information. NASA TECH BRIEFS & TECH HORIZONS ONLINE PRODUCT INFORMATION SERVICE Sponsor:For customer service, email us at eresponse@abpi.net. To unsubscribe from NASA TECH BRIEFS & TECH HORIZONS Online Product Information Service, click here. Using the NTB's Product Information Service, you agree that NTB may send inquiry information to only those companies you visit or request more information on. If you do not wish to receive future NTB Online Product Information Service mailings you may opt-out of and we will not share your contact information with marketers. --------------------------------- ?copyright 2005 ABP International, 1466 Broadway, Suite 910, New York, NY, 10036. All product names contained herein are the trademarks of their respective holders. ABP International is not responsible for the content or privacy of links to Web sites outside the ABP International Network. *The publisher is not responsible for the contents of the articles herein, and any person following the advice or procedures in these articles does so at his or her own risk. The publisher is not liable for the content or representations in advertisements. Neither the publisher nor any contributor will be responsible for any error of omission in the information provided and/or for the results obtained from the use of such information. If you have any concerns about this email, its contents or how it is to be used, please read our Privacy Policy --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050803/1726aeeb/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 4 21:13:27 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 4 21:14:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Ex-spurts. In-Reply-To: <20050804041235.75681.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 03, 2005 09:12:35 PM Message-ID: <20050805041327.28921.qmail@mall-net.com> For those of you who doubt: "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts" -- Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Prize winning physicist. http://www.amasci.com/feynexpt.txt http://www.google.com/search?q=feynman+richard -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From Igor at Mad-Scientists.ORG Thu Aug 4 22:44:35 2005 From: Igor at Mad-Scientists.ORG (Igor) Date: Thu Aug 4 22:44:29 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Television Series (fwd) Message-ID: I'm not sure if this is legitimate or not, but if you are interested please contact them directly. Your faithful servant, Igor ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 13:07:04 -0700 From: AWhite@hearstsc.com To: Igor@Mad-Scientists.ORG Subject: Television Series I'm writing from Hearst Entertainment Productions (please see our company bio below). We're a television production company based in Los Angeles and we're developing a Bill Nye type TV series for cable. I would love to get in touch with a representative from The International Society of Mad Scientists and see if you have any recommendations for "mad scientists" who might be interested in an opportunity like this. We're looking for great characters and I thought you might have a wealth of them in your organization! I appreciate your attention to this matter and I look forward to hearing from someone at your office. Thanks, Aurelia White Assistant to Jerry Shevick and Bari Carrelli Hearst Entertainment 818-444-5021 (direct) HEARST ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCTIONS In the exploding world of non-fiction programming, Hearst Entertainment Productions has fast become one of the leading producers of documentary and reality programming. Using top writers and producers with access to a vast archival video, film and photographic library, HEP is now producing over 100 hours of award winning and highly rated shows each year. Through its wholly owned subsidiary, Actuality Productions, HEP has structured a creative unit that produces top-flight entertainment in a number of genres. On the company's slate for 2005 is are two new shows at Bravo. Production has started on the series The Newspaper, an intense behind-the-scenes look at the reporters, photographers and management team of New York City's The Daily News. This summer, production will begin on Comeback Queens, a reality/documentary series following a group of once famous singing divas reinventing themselves and staging a comeback. Over at Discovery Home, Actuality will launch ten episodes of another original series called, Garden Police, a show that descends on the ugliest landscaping in the neighborhood for a quick makeover. The company wrapped Doggie Style, a half-hour pilot for Lifetime that follows the outrageous antics of the staff of an upscale New York City pet salon. And Home Depot will be the subject of the pilot, Depot Declassified for TLC. The Big Build is a one-hour series for History Channel that combines history, technology and building in a reality show package. Also in production, is Joyrides, a pilot that tracks down the long lost and loved cars of baby boomer men. Actuality will also launch four new two-hour event specials for the History Channel: The Little Ice Age, the story of the mini-Ice Age that enveloped the world from 1350 to 1850; Relics, an exploration of Christian artifacts; The Anti-Christ, a look at how different cultures perceive one history's most feared religious figures. Sahara, the story of one of the most mysterious regions on the face of the planet, will be one of the channel's marquee specials to be aired in first quarter '06. The Day after Roswell explores the ongoing mystery of Roswell through the eyes of a controversial government figure. And, Presidential Prophecies will take a look at how the paranormal has effected past presidents. Returning shows include History Channel's signature series, Modern Marvels, the award winning celebration of man's most remarkable architectural and engineering achievements. Having passed the 300th episode mark, Modern Marvels is still one of the network's highest rated series and interest in the show continues to increase. '05 brings over 40 new episodes and the launch of the new strand, Engineering Disasters. Fine Living's Homes and Hideaways will launch a sixth season this fall in over 85% of markets in syndication. Hosted by Donna Hanover, the show takes the viewer inside the world's most fabulous and innovative homes and hideaways. Makeover Mamas on A&E has just finished its third season of taking two opinionated mothers-in-law and having them work together to makeover their kids' house. HEP has always been a leader in well-crafted historical and contemporary documentaries ? from AMC's Celeb vs. Celeb to ESPN'S Profiles of Courage to A&E's Biography, Court TV's Mugshots and Lifetime's Intimate Portraits. They've tackled topics from serial killers to Gandhi and Oskar Schindler to Holly Hunter to Laura Bush to even Andre the Giant! A&E enjoyed big ratings with two-hour specials like The Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling, Child Stars: Their Story and Beyond Death. Likewise, The History Channel has had success with the productions of Antarctica: A Frozen History, the classic story of Antarctic exploration; The Wrecking Ball, a look at people's infatuation with demolition; and Save Our History: The White House. And on Discovery you can find the one-hour specials, Kapow! Superhero Science, an inspired look at how real world science is catching up to the powers of comic book superheroes; Lived To Tell, that takes a first person look at the people who survive catastrophic events and The Miracle Hunters, a forensic examination of miracles. The company is also no stranger to provocative investigative pieces having produced shows on such subjects as girl gangs, for A&E, and a dark look at sex in the gothic music scene for MTV. Rounding out Hearst's slate is lifestyle programming. Hearst launched two of A&E's most successful weekend originals of recent years: House Beautiful, acclaimed as one of the best "shelter" shows on the air and The Incurable Collector hosted by John Larroquette, a show that taps into the collecting frenzy that has captured the country. Among its other productions were four seasons of the multi-award winning show, Popular Mechanics for Kids. Hearst has also had plenty of experience in the world of big budget extravaganzas. Credited with establishing the network magic franchise on NBC, Hearst produced five years of the World's Greatest Magic, two years of Lance Burton, Master Magician as well as other magic themed programs. At ABC, Hearst launched the first televised American Comedy Awards. Finally, HEP continues to be a leader in innovative programming partnerships. The company has worked with companies like The Home Depot, P&G, Ethan Allen, General Motors, ReMax and SC Johnson to produce and develop innovative programming tailored to their brands. In a world where everyone gets their fifteen minutes of fame, Hearst Entertainment is always camera ready. Whether it's a $50,000 or a $1,000,000 budget, Hearst and its affiliated companies put every dime, as well as their reputation up on the screen. A lot of production companies come and go, but Hearst is a consistent source of much of the best non-fiction programming on television. -------------- next part -------------- --------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail message is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the Hearst Service Center (cadmin@hearstsc.com) immediately by e-mail and delete the original message. --------------------------------------------------------- From mbest at triad.rr.com Fri Aug 5 06:54:42 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Fri Aug 5 06:54:53 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Missile guidance software Message-ID: <006901c599c5$3b504310$6401a8c0@mikey> http://www.funlol.com/pictures/144.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 5 21:42:19 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 5 21:42:33 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Missile guidance software In-Reply-To: <006901c599c5$3b504310$6401a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 05, 2005 09:54:42 AM Message-ID: <20050806044219.58139.qmail@mall-net.com> > > http://www.funlol.com/pictures/144.html > Nice... Moronsloth wins again. Some years back, a little glitch in a Windows machine left a destroyer dead in the water while they rebooted all the windows machines. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From Vesta111 at aol.com Sun Aug 7 13:12:34 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 7 13:12:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] =?utf-8?q?Check_out_Portsmouth_Herald_Local_New?= =?utf-8?q?s=3A_A_=E2=80=98nonsense=E2=80=99_case_of_eminent_domain?= Message-ID: <193.454a9eca.3027c532@aol.com> _Portsmouth Herald Local News: A ?nonsense? case of eminent domain_ (http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/08072005/news/56596.htm) What on earth went on then and what will now go on with this eminent domain, sounds like our freedoms are going away. What a mess.. No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050807/9da49c5c/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 8 18:28:34 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 8 18:29:30 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Slow motion progress. Message-ID: <20050809012834.32042.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> John, Progress is now going a little more again; Going in slow motion, for the E.M. Brainwave Entrainment helmet made from P.V.C. (Attaching pieces of P.V.C. around the larger P.V.C., to use for the coil formers; I'm still worried a little, that I might need to put a small impedence in series with the three coils, so that I will not overload the audio gen.) Life makes me so unhappy. Clyde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050808/c55d4e9b/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 8 18:31:12 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 8 18:31:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] What most people call life. Message-ID: <20050809013112.60227.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> To clarify: What most people call life makes me so unhappy. Politics always ruins scientific progressionism. And religion always interferes, and screws things up, equally as well. Clyde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050808/62dd9b40/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 8 19:08:13 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 8 19:08:31 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] What most people call life. In-Reply-To: <20050809013112.60227.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 08, 2005 06:31:12 PM Message-ID: <20050809020813.91254.qmail@mall-net.com> > What most people call life makes me > so unhappy. > Politics always ruins scientific progressionism. > And religion always interferes, and screws > things up, equally as well. Clyde, what's the alternative? Nothingness? Life is a fascinating game. Ok, so you are behind a little. Look at it as a great opportunity to show what you can do -- see what you can do to out-think and bypass the problems. The Joy of Doing Something! Of immersing yourself in some kind of activity till all else is forgotten. Believe it or not, I learned that taking the PSAT and SAT exams in high school. (Maybe because the questions were not that hard for me.) I also get that programming on the larger projects. And when things fail, laugh, and wonder why. Programming is filled with mistakes, bugs, failures. If you take them as cruel, you will not last at the profession. Laughm, and try to find them before you make them. Put in diagnostics to catch things as they fail. But try! On one project, I worked two and a half years, ten to twelve hour days, sometimes 18. Friends wondered how I could keep at it. The secret is to take care to end each day on a high note, some little success. Something you can feel good about doing. You have to want to feel good about life. Then you will find ways to. Or go take a shower, and enjoy the water falling upon you. I'm in the mountains. I've got three gallons of warm shower water, and only when I've either gotten it from a hot pipe, or cooked it myself. But how nice it feels to take a warm slow shower at night! What do you enjoy, Clyde? What tickles you? It's 96 degrees in this cabin. I pick up a spray bottle and spray myself. Pure Joy as the droplets evaporate, cooling me! And go on. You have to look at these little things, have to let you mind experience the feeling so it can figure out the big things. Have you started looking for things to photograph yet? Even without the camera, practice framing things, look for interesting vivid things to frame. One little question... can you chew on ginger root? Or does it taste like fire? If you're zinc deficient, the sense of taste is weak. Trying to chew on a thin slice of ginger root is a good test... just be near a water faucet. What about niacin, are you taking any? Not getting enough will interfere with your appreciation of life and self. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Mon Aug 8 20:47:43 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Mon Aug 8 20:47:53 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] How the USA creates its own problems. Message-ID: <000201c59c95$19f5da90$6401a8c0@mikey> >From _The Times_, London, August 8, 2005 Saddam's germ war plot is traced back to one Oxford cow By Dominic Kennedy A BRITISH cow that died in an Oxfordshire field in 1937 has emerged as the source of Saddam Hussain's "weapons of mass destruction" programme that led to the Iraq war. An ear from the cow was sent to an English laboratory, where scientists discovered anthrax spores that were later used in secret biological warfare tests by Winston Churchill. The culture was sent to the United States, which exported samples to Iraq during Saddam's war against Iran in the 1980s. Inspectors have found that this batch of anthrax was the dictator's choice in his attempts to create biological weapons. Full article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1726745,00.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 9 05:48:22 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 9 05:48:29 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] How the USA creates its own problems. In-Reply-To: <000201c59c95$19f5da90$6401a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050809124823.48259.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT, AND CRIMINAL MUSLIM EXTREMISTS; A COOPERATIVE CONSPIRACY AND CONTROVERSY; AND I'M SICK OF IT ALL. I WANT AMERICA TO BE AMERICA AGAIN. A PEACE LOVING NATION. I'M HAPPY THAT THE SPACE SHUTTLE MADE A SUCCESSFUL LANDING THIS MORNING, IN CALIFORNIA THOUGH, AMONG ALL OF THE ENDLESS TYPICAL NEGATIVE POLITICAL BULLSHIT; BROADCAST 24/7 ON THE AIRWAVES. CLYDE Michael Best wrote: >From _The Times_, London, August 8, 2005 Saddam's germ war plot is traced back to one Oxford cow By Dominic Kennedy A BRITISH cow that died in an Oxfordshire field in 1937 has emerged as the source of Saddam Hussain's "weapons of mass destruction" programme that led to the Iraq war. An ear from the cow was sent to an English laboratory, where scientists discovered anthrax spores that were later used in secret biological warfare tests by Winston Churchill. The culture was sent to the United States, which exported samples to Iraq during Saddam's war against Iran in the 1980s. Inspectors have found that this batch of anthrax was the dictator's choice in his attempts to create biological weapons. Full article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1726745,00.html _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050809/e6d43666/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 9 07:43:51 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 9 07:44:00 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] What most people call life. In-Reply-To: <20050809020813.91254.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050809144352.52541.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > What most people call life makes me > so unhappy. > Politics always ruins scientific progressionism. > And religion always interferes, and screws > things up, equally as well. Clyde, what's the alternative? Nothingness? I'M REALLY SO WORN OUT AND DISCOURAGED, AND HAVING CARDIOVASCULAR TROUBLES STILL. I SEE TWO DOCTORS TODAY: 1ST, MY P.C.P., AND: 2ND, MY CHIROPRACTOR. THE CHIROPRACTOR IS OF THE MOST BENEFIT. CONVENTION DOCTORS ARE NEGLECTFUL, THEY ARE ALSO NOT 100%HONEST ALL OF THE TIME, AND THEY LIE. Life is a fascinating game. Ok, so you are behind a little. IT'S NOW, FOUR FUCKING MONTH'S BEHIND. 1. FINISHING THE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT WAS SUPPPOSED TO BE COMPLETE BACK IN MARCH. 2. SUCCESSFULLY GROWING NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWERS WAS SUPPOSED ALSO TO BEGIN, BACK IN MARCH, AND TO HAVE BEEN FINISHED BY NOW. I SUCCESSFULLY STARTED GROWING ONE OF THE TWO LOTUS SEEDLINGS THAT I GOT. I HAD TO LEAVE FOR TWO WEEKS AND GO TO BROOKCOVEN (BROOKHAVEN) SO-CALLED HOSPITAL, DUE TO THE BREAKING OF THE STRESS THRESHOLD-AGONY SUFFERING; FAR BEYOND WHAT IS TYPICALLY THROUGH THE ROOF FOR MOST PEOPLE. WHILE GONE TO BROOKCOVEN, I PUT MY MOTHER IN CHARGE OF TAKING CARE OF THE LOTUS PLANT AND HER BIMBO DUMBASS RUINED IT. Look at it as a great opportunity to show what you can do -- see what you can do to out-think and bypass the problems. The Joy of Doing Something! Of immersing yourself in some kind of activity till all else is forgotten. MAN, I'VE GOT SO MANY THINGS THAT I COULD DO. WHERE'S THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM, TO DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS? I NEED TO SLOW WAY WAY WAY DOWN,,,,, STILL..... I'M MOVING FASTER THAN A SPEEDING BULLET, THROUGH SPACE AND TIME, IN MY MIND. REALITY IS A PERPETUAL IMPEDENCE TO PROGRESS THOUGH. POLITICS AND RELIGION ALWAYS FUCK THINGS UP; THEY OWN AND DICTATE THE TOTALITARIAN FINANCIAL INTRAFUCKTURE-INFRASTRUCTURE. Believe it or not, I learned that, taking the PSAT and SAT exams in high school. (Maybe because the questions were not that hard for me.) I also get that programming on the larger projects. SPEAKING OF DETERMINATION; I AM STILL MOVING FORWARD WITH THE TALKING CLOCK PROJECT THAT I HAVE MENTIONED IN THE PAST; WORKED HARD YESTERDAY, ON REVISING THE PAPER ON THE TRITE MARKET STUDY FOR THE BLIND. AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT ANY AND ALL NAYSAYERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT NOW; I WANT IT DONE, AND I WANT IT DONE RIGHT; THE UNIT BEING BUILT HERE IN AMERICA, WITH AMERICAN QUALITY ENGINEERING, AND AMERICAN INTEGRITY; NOT BUILT IN COMMUNIST CRAP, WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT GARBAGE CHINA. And when things fail, laugh, and wonder why. WHEN THINGS FAIL, I FEEL LIKE CUSSING AND CURSING GOD ALL OF THE TIME NOW; BECAUSE THE GOD OF RELIGION IS BOTH A FRAUD AND A FAILURE, AND I AM SICK OF GOD, AND GODS. Programming is filled with mistakes, bugs, failures. If you take them as cruel, you will not last at the profession. Laugh, and try to find them before you make them. Put in diagnostics to catch things as they fail. But try! I'M TRYING. LIFE IS A BITCH; HELL, LIFE IS MORE THAN JUST A BITCH; LIFE IS NEARLY ENTIRELY HELL ON EARTH. ENDLESS CYCLES OF (HEAVEN AND) HELL ON EARTH. On one project, I worked two and a half years, ten to twelve hour days, sometimes 18. Friends wondered how I could keep at it. The secret is to take care to end each day on a high note, some little success. Something you can feel good about doing. THE INSOMNIA FROM HELL, ALONG WITH MY CARDIOVASCULAR STRESS, MAY BE THE EARLY DEATH OF MY LIFE. IT IS MY WILL THOUGH, TO BE A SURVIVOR. You have to want to feel good about life. Then you will find ways to. Or go take a shower, and enjoy the water falling upon you. I'm in the mountains. I've got three gallons of warm shower water, and only when I've either gotten it from a hot pipe, or cooked it myself. But how nice it feels to take a warm slow shower at night! What do you enjoy, Clyde? What tickles you? I ENJOY THE INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, AT THE CHIROPRACTOR. THAT TECHNOLOGY IS AN AWESOME WONDER TO ME! SO MUCH SO, THAT I WANT TO OWN ONE OF THOSE UNITS SOME DAY, IF ENOUGH MONEY MAKES IT POSSIBLE. I WANTED TO PURCHASE ONE OF THOSE TRACTION TABLES, BACK WHEN I HAD TO USE THE MONEY THAT I HAD, ON A MOUNTAIN BIKE INSTEAD, SINCE MY CHIROPRACTOR WAS UNDECIDED AT THAT TIME, TO SELL ONE OF HIS USED UNITS. I HAD TO USE THE MONEY THAT I HAD AT THAT TIME, FOR THE BIKE INSTEAD, FOR THE EXCERISING RELIEF OF WAY TOO MUCH PENT UP ADRENALINE. BUT THE TRACTION TABLE WOULD HAVE BEEN OF EQUAL BENEFIT, IF I COULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PURCHASE IT, TO PUT TO USE. It's 96 degrees in this cabin. I pick up a spray bottle and spray myself. Pure Joy as the droplets evaporate, cooling me! And go on. MAN, I FIGURED THAT YOU WOULD HAVE AIR CONDITIONING. I WAS TOO LATE THE OTHER DAY, WHEN I WENT TO THE LOCAL DAVIS INOTEK OFFICE HERE IN TULSA, TO INQUIRE ABOUT 100% PERFECT, SMALL SCALE, MODULAR AIR CONDITIONING UNITS, FOR CLEAN ROOMS AND LABORATORIES, THEY HAD ALREADY CLOSED SHOP FOR THE DAY. I'M DYING TO GET SMALL SCALE, ABSOLUTE MODULAR, EASILY SERVICEABLE, REDUNDANT AIR CONDITIONING UNITS, FOR MY STUDIO/STATION/LAB FACILITY, THAT IS CURRENTLY IMPERFECT AND INCOMPLETE. I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY IS SUPPOSED TO COME FROM, TO BRING MY LAB TO A PERFECT COMPLETION, AND TO PAY FOR THE EXPENSES NEEDED TO COMPLETE MY HANDS ON PROJECTS THAT NEED TO BE DONE TOO. You have to look at these little things, have to let you mind experience the feeling so it can figure out the big things. Have you started looking for things to photograph yet? I NEED TO. ALL OF MY PRIORITIES PILE UP. THINGS GET BURIED. I GET FRUSTRATED AND ANGRY. PROGRESS MOVES IN NO MOTION, TO SLOW MOTION; I GET FRUSTRATED AND ANGRY. Even without the camera, practice framing things, look for interesting vivid things to frame. One little question... can you chew on ginger root? Or does it taste like fire? If you're zinc deficient, the sense of taste is weak. Trying to chew on a thin slice of ginger root is a good test... just be near a water faucet. OK; I'D LIKE TO TRY THAT. I WENT TO AKIN'S; A MOM AND POP HEALTH FOOD STORE, THE OTHER DAY, AND GOT SOME ALMOND BUTTER, AND A PACKAGE OF WHOLESOME SWEETENERS BRAND, ORGANIC RAW CANE (REAL MCCOY) SUGAR. THE NEXT TIME I GO BACK TO AKIN'S, I'LL CHECK INTO GINGER ROOT. AS FOR NIACIN; I'VE STILL GOT THE AMOUNT THAT I PURCHASED IN THE PAST, BUT HAVEN'T TRIED IT IN A WHILE. THE LAST TIME/S THAT I TOOK IT, I WAS WAKING UP AT NIGHT, FEELING LIKE MY BLOOD PRESSURE WOULD MAKE MY HEART EXPLODE IN MY CHEST. I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. MAYBE THAT WAS BECAUSE I WAS TAKING IT BEFORE BEDTIME, INSTEAD OF AT THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY, IN THE MORNING, INSTEAD??? SHOULD I ONLY TAKE NIACIN IN THE MORNING, AND IN THE MORNING ONLY? What about niacin, are you taking any? Not getting enough will interfere with your appreciation of life and self. I'M TAKING CLONAZEPAM AGAIN, BUT IN MICRODOSES: .5 MILLIGRAMS SPREAD OUT, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, TO HELP ME GET THROUGH. I FUCKING HATE BEING A DRUG ADDICT: PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. I HATE CHEMISTRY. PHYSICS HAS SOLUTIONS TO OFFER. ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT IS PHYSICAL SCIENCE, AND NOT CHEMICAL CRAP. IF I HAD THE POWER TO DO SO, I WOULD MURDER MANY OF THE OWNERS, OF PHARMACOLOGY COMPANIES, IN THE CORRUPT PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRY, FOR THEIR CEASELESS BULLSHIT, THAT IS FORCEFUCKED UPON ALL OF US. FUCK TULSA. FUCK TULSA. FUCK TULSA. FUCK TULSA. I HAVE LOST MY MIND. FUCK TULSA. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050809/23c51d30/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 9 08:06:45 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 9 08:07:03 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] (Revised:) TRITE MARKET STUDY FOR THE BLIND. Message-ID: <20050809150645.90650.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> John, and/or others; I don't want criticism; I just need proofreading of my revision. Let me know the errors, and I will go back and correct them all later. Gotta go for now. Clyde TRITE MARKET STUDY FOR THE BLIND: Hello. My name is Clyde Lofton. I am attempting to work toward the creation of a minimalistic, American made-American quality, talking clock unit, that will have the ability to be synchronized to the global positioning system for perfect accuracy in time keeping, for private use in homes, for use by amateur radio repeater owners, and for public use in broadcast facilities. The talking clock unit is to be designed as minimalistic as possible, for maximum ease of use. The talking clock will have its own internal quartz crystal oscillator which will give it the ability to be used as a stand alone device, by itself, or as a voltage controlled device, for synchronocity to the global positioning system, so that the clock can be continuously updated to the Universal Coordinated Time (U.T.C.) clock time code standard, originating in Fort Collins Colorado, to keep the talking clock continuously set to the correct time. To insure that the talking clock is a success; I am doing this trite market study, to receive your feedback answers to the following questions: 1. Would the blind community be interested in a talking clock unit that is manufactured in the United States, using only the highest of quality parts and components; A talking clock unit that is built with the highest of integrity in its workmanship, and one that is always reliable, and on perfect time, when connected to the global positioning system? Circle: YES or NO 2. What would the blind be willing to pay for an American integrity talking clock unit? Here is an example: The Omnicron Electronics model TCC-14, talking clock/calendar unit, sells for $445.00, when purchased brand new. The talking clock unit would have to either be comparable in cost to the Omnicron Electronics talking clock/calendar unit, or would have to be lower in cost from the Omnicron Electronics talking clock/calendar unit. What price range would the blind be willing to pay for an American quality-American integrity, user friendly, talking clock unit? Price ranges: $200.00 to $300.00, Or: $300.00 to $400.00? Please put your response here: $ . Thank you very much for your cooperation in this survey. Please return the completed survey, to --------------------------------------------, at the Nebraska Commission For The Blind And Visually Impaired. Thank You Sincerely; Clyde Lofton Tulsa, Oklahoma --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050809/3a48ad74/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 9 13:08:43 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 9 13:09:25 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] (Revised:) TRITE MARKET STUDY FOR THE BLIND. In-Reply-To: <20050809150645.90650.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 09, 2005 08:06:45 AM Message-ID: <20050809200843.81215.qmail@mall-net.com> The problem with your market survey, is that you are not surveying the market. You are asking for encouragement. That, you will get! But will they follow through? Probably not. So you need to ask it in a more neutral manner so that you get at the truth. First, establish whether the person is in your primary market. Your market is not just blind people, so you will need two or more different surveys. Actually, your primary market, if you emphasize quality, will likely be friends and relatives of blind people, as they have more money and need gifts for the blind relatives. Most blind people are not engineers, scientists, or business leaders; so their income is limited. (I know some who are.) Many blind and handicapped people end up in teaching and other social services, helping their own kind. They have very low incomes. Here's an off the cuff survey, based on nothing but a few moments of reflection. I could do better if I had a few days to mull it over; but that would be real work involving research, etc. Oh yes, don't use the word "see". ---- We have been asked to determine if there is a market for a talking clock among the blind. Are you blind? Is a family member blind? Do you prefer to be informed of the time at a regular interval, or to check the time when you want to know? Are you satisfied with your primary time piece? Very satisfied good enough I'd like something better I need something better How old is your primary time piece? Is it a clock on your desk, something you keep in a pocket, a pendant around your neck, or a watch strapped to your wrist? Did you buy it, or was it a gift? How much do you believe it is worth? How often do you check the time? Do you use your timepiece to time medications? Are the alarms loud enough for you? Is it important for you to know time to: the day the quarter-day the hour the quarter hour the minute specific intervals (alarms) more accuracy Do you rely on a grandfather clock? Do you own a grandfather clock? Do you use any clocks with chimes on the hour? Do you use any clocks with chimes on the quarter hour? Do you rely on a taking clock or watch? How often would you wish a clock to announce the time? Every hour Every quarter hour Every minute DO your prefer chimes a woman's voice a man's voice a tune etc. How important is the accuracy of your clock or watch? How much more would you pay for an American made talking clock, if accuracy and reliability was better than what you have now? not at all $1 $2 $5 ... --------- A good market survey (which this isn't!) first qualifies the person to see if the person is in your market. Then there are some important and some unimportant questions, some of which are used to validate or invalidate the qualification questions. You'll find that some people, like myself, use pocket watches or pendant watches rather than wearing them on the wrist. Actually, my "watch" is a recorder with a time display. And what I really need, is an alarm watch that is loud enough for me to hear, AND THAT RESETS ITSELF so it will sound the alarm every N minutes!!! Most of the watches I've seen just are not loud enough. we lose our hearing as we get older. Also, if you are dealing with blind people, you really, really need to print this survey in braille along with the print, and say it's ok to punch a hole next to your answer instead of marking it, as a real person will read it. Look for groups of blind people. They have groups. That's where you need to distribute this survey. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 9 13:48:10 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 9 13:48:59 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] What most people call life. In-Reply-To: <20050809144352.52541.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 09, 2005 07:43:51 AM Message-ID: <20050809204810.8939.qmail@mall-net.com> > > What most people call life makes me > > so unhappy. > > Politics always ruins scientific progressionism. > > And religion always interferes, and screws > > things up, equally as well. > > Clyde, what's the alternative? Nothingness? > > > I'M REALLY SO WORN OUT AND DISCOURAGED, AND HAVING CARDIOVASCULAR TROUBLES STILL. > I SEE TWO DOCTORS TODAY: 1ST, MY P.C.P., AND: 2ND, MY CHIROPRACTOR. > THE CHIROPRACTOR IS OF THE MOST BENEFIT. > CONVENTION DOCTORS ARE NEGLECTFUL, THEY ARE ALSO NOT 100%HONEST ALL OF THE TIME, AND THEY LIE. Sometimes you have to find other doctors. In fact, most people with chronic disease go through a fair number of doctors till they find someone who knows something about their disease and treats them as parters in healing, rather than bodies. > Life is a fascinating game. Ok, so you are behind a little. > > IT'S NOW, FOUR FUCKING MONTH'S BEHIND. So your pace is slower at times. You have a lot of burdens. Health has to be the number one issue. > > 1. FINISHING THE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT WAS SUPPPOSED TO BE COMPLETE BACK IN MARCH. It will be done when it will be done. This is why perfection isn't so important. Cheap trials to see if it's worth doing, then the more expensive attempts at perfection. Most of the time you start something, you don't know what aspect of it will prove important. > The Joy of Doing Something! Of immersing yourself in some kind of > activity till all else is forgotten. > > > MAN, I'VE GOT SO MANY THINGS THAT I COULD DO. We all do, Clyde, we all do. > WHERE'S THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM, TO DO ALL OF THOSE THINGS? That's one of the main limiting factors. So most people turn their interests toward how to make more money. > REALITY IS A PERPETUAL IMPEDENCE TO PROGRESS THOUGH. Sure. But it's also a pleasant place to spend a lifetime. > POLITICS AND RELIGION ALWAYS FUCK THINGS UP; THEY OWN AND > DICTATE THE TOTALITARIAN FINANCIAL INTRAFUCKTURE-INFRASTRUCTURE. Nope! We do. Karl Marx got it dead wrong, as we have seen. We have the same thing here in our Silicon Valley, with rents rising to astronomical levels. Greedy landlords? Not half as much as wanting tenants! "No, I want it! I'll give you $20 more per month than he will!" And so the bidding war starts! Just look at our real estate -- homes sell at more than the asking price. > SPEAKING OF DETERMINATION; I AM STILL MOVING FORWARD WITH THE > TALKING CLOCK PROJECT THAT I HAVE MENTIONED IN THE PAST; WORKED > HARD YESTERDAY, ON REVISING THE PAPER ON THE TRITE MARKET STUDY > FOR THE BLIND. Sorry about shooting it down; but the survey needs some improvement to get the real truth for you. > AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT WHAT ANY AND ALL NAYSAYERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT NOW; > I WANT IT DONE, AND I WANT IT DONE RIGHT; Good. Talk to the market and see what the market wants. I'll bet it's something they don't have already. Whether it is the watch or not is another matter. I'll bet what they really want, is a hand held sonar scanner that vibrates to tell them how far away things are. >> And when things fail, laugh, and wonder why. > WHEN THINGS FAIL, I > FEEL LIKE CUSSING AND CURSING GOD ALL OF THE TIME NOW; BECAUSE THE GOD > OF RELIGION IS BOTH A FRAUD AND A FAILURE, AND I AM SICK OF GOD, AND > GODS. Nah. Sure, religion is a fraud. So? It still offers us some comfort and some guidance, no? > Programming is filled with mistakes, bugs, failures. If you take > them as cruel, you will not last at the profession. Laugh, and try to > find them before you make them. Put in diagnostics to catch things as > they fail. But try! > > I'M TRYING. > LIFE IS A BITCH; HELL, LIFE IS MORE THAN JUST A BITCH; LIFE IS NEARLY > ENTIRELY HELL ON EARTH. i don't think so. > The secret is to take care to end each day on a high note, some > little success. Something you can feel good about doing. > > > THE INSOMNIA FROM HELL, ALONG WITH MY CARDIOVASCULAR STRESS, MAY BE THE EARLY DEATH OF MY LIFE. > IT IS MY WILL THOUGH, TO BE A SURVIVOR. I understand. > Or go take a shower, and enjoy the water falling upon you. I'm in > the mountains. I've got three gallons of warm shower water, and only > when I've either gotten it from a hot pipe, or cooked it myself. But how > nice it feels to take a warm slow shower at night! > > What do you enjoy, Clyde? What tickles you? > > > I ENJOY THE INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, AT THE CHIROPRACTOR. > > THAT TECHNOLOGY IS AN AWESOME WONDER TO ME! Can you make a crude approximation of that? Can you describe what it is, how it works? > It's 96 degrees in this cabin. I pick up a spray bottle and spray > myself. Pure Joy as the droplets evaporate, cooling me! And go on. > > > MAN, I FIGURED THAT YOU WOULD HAVE AIR CONDITIONING. I am on solar power. No such luck! This is an imperfect world. But so what! We need to make the most of it. > I WAS TOO LATE THE OTHER DAY, WHEN I WENT TO THE LOCAL DAVIS INOTEK OFFICE HERE IN TULSA, TO INQUIRE ABOUT 100% PERFECT, SMALL SCALE, MODULAR AIR CONDITIONING UNITS, FOR CLEAN ROOMS AND LABORATORIES, THEY HAD ALREADY CLOSED SHOP FOR THE DAY. I think most manufacturers look at disposability rather than maintainability. We do things so much better today than ten years ago, so it's worth getting new... or so it seems. > I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY IS SUPPOSED TO COME FROM, TO BRING MY LAB TO A PERFECT COMPLETION, AND TO PAY FOR THE EXPENSES NEEDED TO COMPLETE MY HANDS ON PROJECTS THAT NEED TO BE DONE TOO. From you. So most of our labs are not the neat clean places corporate guys get to work in. > You have to look at these little things, have to let you mind > experience the feeling so it can figure out the big things. > > Have you started looking for things to photograph yet? > > I NEED TO. > > ALL OF MY PRIORITIES PILE UP. Priority one is health. Part of health is learning the beauty of life which makes life feel worth living. > One little question... can you chew on ginger root? Or does it > taste like fire? If you're zinc deficient, the sense of taste is weak. > Trying to chew on a thin slice of ginger root is a good test... just be > near a water faucet. > > > OK; I'D LIKE TO TRY THAT. It can be hot if you have enough zinc. > I WENT TO AKIN'S; A MOM AND POP HEALTH FOOD STORE, THE OTHER DAY, AND GOT SOME ALMOND BUTTER, AND A PACKAGE OF WHOLESOME SWEETENERS BRAND, ORGANIC RAW CANE (REAL MCCOY) SUGAR. Sugar... cane or refined, isn't that good for most of us. > AS FOR NIACIN; I'VE STILL GOT THE AMOUNT THAT I PURCHASED IN THE PAST, BUT HAVEN'T TRIED IT IN A WHILE. > THE LAST TIME/S THAT I TOOK IT, I WAS WAKING UP AT NIGHT, FEELING LIKE MY BLOOD PRESSURE WOULD MAKE MY HEART EXPLODE IN MY CHEST. > I DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN AGAIN. Ok! You may have a drug interaction, or be allergic to the other stuff in the capsule. > SHOULD I ONLY TAKE NIACIN IN THE MORNING, AND IN THE MORNING ONLY? If you had an interaction, then you should not take it. > I'M TAKING CLONAZEPAM AGAIN, BUT IN MICRODOSES: .5 MILLIGRAMS > SPREAD OUT, THROUGHOUT THE DAY, TO HELP ME GET THROUGH. > I FUCKING HATE BEING A DRUG ADDICT: PRESCRIPTION DRUGS ARE NO > EXCEPTIONS. So find an orthomolecular doctor. > I HATE CHEMISTRY. > PHYSICS HAS SOLUTIONS TO OFFER. > ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT IS PHYSICAL SCIENCE, > AND NOT CHEMICAL CRAP. I don't know how you will react to it. It might help, or might be crap to you. We are all different. > IF I HAD THE POWER TO DO SO, I WOULD MURDER MANY OF THE OWNERS, > OF PHARMACOLOGY COMPANIES, IN THE CORRUPT PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRY, FOR THEIR CEASELESS BULLSHIT, THAT IS FORCEFUCKED UPON ALL OF US. > They do produce useful drugs. There is no one perfect solution. There are just choices with different aspects to them. > FUCK TULSA. Clyde, it's a state of mind. > I HAVE LOST MY MIND. But you are looking for it, right? That takes a mind to do, so you probably haven't lost all of it. Not much of it, in fact. Clyde, you are one heck of a lot better off than a skid row bum!!! And you have better living conditions than I do , I think... Not that I could stand the pollution; but man, a house with infinite running water! And none of this 96 - 100 degree crap. Life is not perfect. If it was, we'd all go extinct. We are the most general creature around. We can't run as fast as a horse, so we drive faster. We can't fly as high as a bird, so we fly jets higher. We can't yell very far, so we use the telephone. And we can't walk on water, so we use boats and ice skates. I think that's not such a bad deal! -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Tue Aug 9 20:48:28 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Tue Aug 9 20:48:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Negative quantum information Message-ID: <000501c59d5e$5eb87240$6501a8c0@mikey> "In a development that would probably even puzzle Claude Shannon, information can be negative -- at least when the information is quantum. The discovery, by Horodecki, Oppenheim, and Winter, appears in the current edition of the leading journal Nature. If I tell you negative information, you'll know less. Apparently, researchers hope to use this to gain deeper insights into phenomena such as quantum teleportation and computation, as well as the very structure of the quantum world. More details can be found here and here A popular account of the article can be found on Oppenheim's homepage, and a free version of the article can be found in the arxiv for those of us without subscriptions to Nature." http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/08/222245 From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 9 21:02:46 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 9 21:03:08 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Negative quantum information In-Reply-To: <000501c59d5e$5eb87240$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 09, 2005 11:48:28 PM Message-ID: <20050810040246.54946.qmail@mall-net.com> > > "In a development that would probably even puzzle Claude Shannon, > information can be negative -- at least when the information is quantum. > The discovery, by Horodecki, Oppenheim, and Winter, appears in the current > edition of the leading journal Nature. If I tell you negative > information, you'll know less. This is new??? "Twas brillig and the slivey toves, did gyre and gimble in the wabe..." How many brain cells have I tied up with that jaberwocky??? Actually, it's worse. Because if you tell me lies, I may believe them! The I do negative things which disrupt order and interfere with other people's lives. One might consider this with respect to Clem Kadiddlehopper 's fibs as well as the followers of less benign like, such as those of Old Salami Been Loaded back in the mountains of the stone age. Hard to believe he wishes the whole world to go back to the stone age! But sure looks that way. > Apparently, researchers hope to use this to gain deeper > insights into phenomena such as quantum teleportation and computation, > as well as the very structure of the quantum world. More details can be > found here and here A popular account of the article can be found on > Oppenheim's > homepage, and a free version of the article can be found in the arxiv = > for those of us without subscriptions to Nature. > > http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=3D05/08/08/222245 -javilk- mall-net.com ------------------- IMAGINEERING -------------------- ----- Advice, Analysis, Strategies, Development ----- Serving the World for three generations, since 1933 ----------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2005, Copyright retained. All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 9 21:59:49 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 9 21:59:58 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050810040246.54946.qmail@mall-net.com> from "javilk@mall-net.com" at Aug 10, 2005 04:02:46 AM Message-ID: <20050810045949.82715.qmail@mall-net.com> The debate between Intelligent Design and Darwinism seems to miss something, something incredibly, hugely, large! Darwinism addresses mistakes, which are quite common in the world. It lets at least some of them be put to good use. Intelligent design says some great power, something with a will to replicate itself, created us. Mistakes, we can see are not always fruitful. Indeed, are more often not. But if we were the results of intelligent design, should we not expect more intelligent designs in this huge universe? And not only like ourselves, but some suited to the cold vapors of Jupiter and Saturn, nevermind the almost earth-like Mars. Maybe we are the results of a lot of errors, some of which worked. A pile more errors than, say, a cockroach or a crocodile. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From justinhart at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 01:34:35 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Wed Aug 10 01:34:48 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050810045949.82715.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050810040246.54946.qmail@mall-net.com> <20050810045949.82715.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: Intelligent design is a political tool of the right-wing who want to put a scientific label on a religious concept. I am Christian, and I object to this nonsense of manufacturing "scientific theories" with no science to back them up. Science should be science, religion should be religion, and government should stay out of it. Religion gains no credibility by forcing schools to teach their teachings as science. This behavior paints religion as paranoid, and seeking to find believers by force and fear. This is the behavior that allows those who would criticize religion to paint the faithful as stupid, unfit for science, and unfit for modern society. If religion is borne out by science, then science will come to the conclusions that religion has found, on its own, without being forced. If these people have any faith, they should trust God to reveal what is needed. Justin On 8/10/05, javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > > > > The debate between Intelligent Design and Darwinism seems to miss > something, something incredibly, hugely, large! > > Darwinism addresses mistakes, which are quite common in the world. > It lets at least some of them be put to good use. > > Intelligent design says some great power, something with a will to > replicate itself, created us. > > Mistakes, we can see are not always fruitful. Indeed, are more > often not. > > But if we were the results of intelligent design, should we not > expect more intelligent designs in this huge universe? And not only > like ourselves, but some suited to the cold vapors of Jupiter and > Saturn, nevermind the almost earth-like Mars. > > Maybe we are the results of a lot of errors, some of which worked. > A pile more errors than, say, a cockroach or a crocodile. > > > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 10 02:36:44 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 10 02:36:53 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 10, 2005 04:34:35 AM Message-ID: <20050810093644.24085.qmail@mall-net.com> > > Intelligent design is a political tool of the right-wing who want to > put a scientific label on a religious concept. I am Christian, and I > object to this nonsense of manufacturing "scientific theories" with no > science to back them up. So what. The concept of intelligent design predates the name. I always wondered about this in high school biology. > Science should be science, religion should be religion, and government > should stay out of it. Why??? America's foundation is based upon a religious presumption that we are created equal. No Karma, no favorites, etc. And since religious leaders don't live much longer than average... don't escape aging, etc... > Religion gains no credibility by forcing schools to teach their > teachings as science. This behavior paints religion as paranoid, and > seeking to find believers by force and fear. This is the behavior > that allows those who would criticize religion to paint the faithful > as stupid, unfit for science, and unfit for modern society. If > religion is borne out by science, then science will come to the > conclusions that religion has found, on its own, without being forced. Have you seen it taught? I like the way Bush put it -- exposure to other ideas, not as certainty. mWe seem to forget that education is SUPPOSED TO MAKE YOU THINK!!! SOmething most teachers are so hidiously afraid of! > If these people have any faith, they should trust God to reveal what > is needed. I am. I stand here (or sit here) on this earth. Something created the laws of physics, or whatever, which led to me coming into existance. That seems pretty incontrovertible to me. Just what that Something was, or what it intended... That, even as an ordained minister, I can't tell you. I haven't a clue! SOme deductions based on some assumptions... but no Clues! But if I had designed life, I'd have iterated that design in a lot of places, and provided them some means of communicating with each other. I see none of that. Thus... I honor our saviors for what they DID, not for who sent them. I suspect this universe is an experiment; because an omniscient omnipotent creator would be insane; bored, trying to break the omniscience by experiment. Maybe we are the exception, the unexpected things that arose when the parameters were just right, kind of like then environment around the square root of two with it's strangeness. Or maybe it got bored and shut down from boredom. > > The debate between Intelligent Design and Darwinism seems to miss > > something, something incredibly, hugely, large! > >=20 > > Darwinism addresses mistakes, which are quite common in the world. > > It lets at least some of them be put to good use. > >=20 > > Intelligent design says some great power, something with a will to > > replicate itself, created us. > >=20 > > Mistakes, we can see are not always fruitful. Indeed, are more > > often not. > >=20 > > But if we were the results of intelligent design, should we not > > expect more intelligent designs in this huge universe? And not only > > like ourselves, but some suited to the cold vapors of Jupiter and > > Saturn, nevermind the almost earth-like Mars. > >=20 > > Maybe we are the results of a lot of errors, some of which worked. > > A pile more errors than, say, a cockroach or a crocodile. > >=20 > >=20 > > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/jav= > ilk > > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! ------------= > --- > > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we?= > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= > --- > > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > Mad-Scientists mailing list > > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > >=20 > > > --=20 > Justin W. Hart > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > From justinhart at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 05:08:02 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Wed Aug 10 05:08:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050810093644.24085.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050810093644.24085.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > So what. The concept of intelligent design predates the name. I > always wondered about this in high school biology. I have nothing against creationism. Point me to the academic papers about intelligent design, and tell me which journal or conference they got accepted to. Show me some experimental results. Intelligent Design didn't come from science, which is why it's not science. > Why??? Science is science. If you didn't arrive at your result scientifically, it doesn't belong being taught as science. The politicization of religion only leads to problems. Refer to the pilgrims who first came to the new world, and most of the problems that the Catholic Church has experienced throughout its history. > > America's foundation is based upon a religious presumption that we > are created equal. No Karma, no favorites, etc. And since religious > leaders don't live much longer than average... don't escape aging, > etc... Where did that come from? Religion is fine... teach it in a religion class, not a science class. A science class should be about science. > Have you seen it taught? When I was taught evolution, we received a little caveat at the start of the class that said "this isn't supposed to destroy your religious beliefs." > > I like the way Bush put it -- exposure to other ideas, not as > certainty. mWe seem to forget that education is SUPPOSED TO MAKE YOU > THINK!!! SOmething most teachers are so hidiously afraid of! > Bush isn't a scientist. This debate isn't about making schoolchildren think, and you know it. Ground your argument in 1 thing, why Intelligent Design is science. You can't build a swaying argument for why it belongs in a science class until you can tell me why it belongs at a physics or biology conference. > I am. I stand here (or sit here) on this earth. Something created > the laws of physics, or whatever, which led to me coming into existance. > That seems pretty incontrovertible to me. Evolution states that we were not designed. It controverts your statement. You didn't arrive at your conclusion scientifically, which is why it doesn't belong in a science classroom. Why is there anything wrong with that? Like I said, I'm a religious man. I'm a Lutheran, and have been since I was a child. I have no problem accepting God's works, solely on faith. The Bible says that this is ok: John 20:29 (New International Version) Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." > Just what that Something was, or what it intended... That, even as > an ordained minister, I can't tell you. I haven't a clue! SOme > deductions based on some assumptions... but no Clues! > > But if I had designed life, I'd have iterated that design in a lot > of places, and provided them some means of communicating with each > other. I never presume that God follows my thought process when carrying out a task. If we really understood God, nobody would say "God works in mysterious ways," we would say "Well, that's part of the Divine Standard Operating Procedure." > I see none of that. Thus... I honor our saviors for what they > DID, not for who sent them. I take it that by minister you did not mean a Christian one? > I suspect this universe is an experiment; because an omniscient > omnipotent creator would be insane; bored, trying to break the > omniscience by experiment. Maybe we are the exception, the unexpected > things that arose when the parameters were just right, kind of like then > environment around the square root of two with it's strangeness. You can believe whatever you like, but what you're talking about isn't at all based on science at this point. Also, evolution doesn't defeat God's omniscience. God could understand exactly how everything evolved. It also doesn't defeat God's omnipotence. It's also worth mentioning that there are multiple Christian interpretations of the creation story. Why should we presume that all of Christianity supports the version being taught in the classroom. That's almost like saying that all of Christianity abhors drinking. My church gets a keg for their annual pig picking. Justin > > > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/jav= > > ilk > > > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! ------------= > > --- > > > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we?= > > -- > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= > > --- > > > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > > > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Mad-Scientists mailing list > > > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > > > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > >=20 > > > > > > --=20 > > Justin W. Hart > > _______________________________________________ > > Mad-Scientists mailing list > > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 10 11:20:46 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 10 11:20:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 10, 2005 08:08:02 AM Message-ID: <20050810182046.28262.qmail@mall-net.com> > > So what. The concept of intelligent design predates the name. I > > always wondered about this in high school biology. > > I have nothing against creationism. Point me to the academic papers > about intelligent design, and tell me which journal or conference they > got accepted to. Show me some experimental results. How can you prove intelligent design experimentally? You plain can't! You can only prove evolutionary use of a tendency to make mistakes, and only under limited circumstances. Both require a lot of givens. > Intelligent Design didn't come from science, which is why it's not science. You can look at anything scientifically. Whether it makes sense, whether you can extract and prove some hypothesis... well... So maybe your hypothesis is proven or disproven by events which have already happened. Why do YOU have to perform the experiments? Save yourself some money, use historical data. I mean, how much does it cost to create a universe these days? Where are you going to get that kind of funding? Queen Isabella? That only produced an existing "world" already contaminated by infidels with a poor immigration policy. > > Why??? > > Science is science. If you didn't arrive at your result > scientifically, it doesn't belong being taught as science. > > The politicization of religion only leads to problems. Refer to the > pilgrims who first came to the new world, and most of the problems > that the Catholic Church has experienced throughout its history. No argument there! We don't need Ayatolia so's! > > America's foundation is based upon a religious presumption that we > > are created equal. No Karma, no favorites, etc. And since religious > > leaders don't live much longer than average... don't escape aging, > > etc... > > Where did that come from? Religion is fine... teach it in a religion > class, not a science class. A science class should be about science. The declaration of Independence. The pledge of allegiance, etc. As to teaching intelligent design in science class, it would be a hoot! Look at all the shortcuts the class would come up with! A LOT of creation stories have "the old guy" making mistakes, which the younger assistants corrected. I mean, just look at that dinosaur period! Why on earth did they get side-tracked on making bigger and bigger idiots??? Something missing here folks? Or is it a replay (pre-play) of Detroit? Analogies abound! That's an excellent way of teaching thinking. I like Intelligent Design... If taken as a given, then you start looking for the rules. Well, you start looking for rules anyway in physics... but there is more comment about the cute ways things come out, and DON'T come out! And soon... as soon as you start asking about alternatives... you see it's random chance combined with the mechanisms of advantage, that rule. But it gets you THINKING!!! And THAT, is what Bush implied. > > Have you seen it taught? > > When I was taught evolution, we received a little caveat at the start > of the class that said "this isn't supposed to destroy your religious > beliefs." Ha Ha! Burn them at the stake! (Which ones, the scientists or the priests??? Oh, the teachers? Well... we do that already with their salaries.) > > I like the way Bush put it -- exposure to other ideas, not as > > certainty. mWe seem to forget that education is SUPPOSED TO MAKE YOU > > THINK!!! SOmething most teachers are so hidiously afraid of! > >=20 > > Bush isn't a scientist. This debate isn't about making schoolchildren > think, and you know it. Ground your argument in 1 thing, why > Intelligent Design is science. You can't build a swaying argument for > why it belongs in a science class until you can tell me why it belongs > at a physics or biology conference. Bush isn't a dummy, either. He said it in the best way that it could be said! Let THE PEOPLE decide! > > I am. I stand here (or sit here) on this earth. Something created > > the laws of physics, or whatever, which led to me coming into existance. > > That seems pretty incontrovertible to me. > > Evolution states that we were not designed. It controverts your statement. (I hate to say this quite this way, but...) Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? Or does your bias prevent you from extracting a neutral interpretation of my statement above? Please re-read it. It is enough for a creator to create the prime principles (forces, laws, whatever) from which the Universe came into being. I am, therefore there was a creator, even if long, loooonnngggg before I was born! Whether he/she/it/they are still active, is another matter. > You didn't arrive at your conclusion scientifically, which is why it > doesn't belong in a science classroom. Why is there anything wrong > with that? Like I said, I'm a religious man. I'm a Lutheran, and > have been since I was a child. I have no problem accepting God's > works, solely on faith. What do you mean I didn't arrive at my conclusion scientifically??? How can you possibly say that. I considered the evidence and the logic behind that. If the universe (pana-verse, over-vers, supraverse, or whatever) had not been created, it would not exist. If it did not exist, I would not exist. And neither would you! How can you refute that logical statement? What you think the creator is... that's your problem! > The Bible says that this is ok: > > John 20:29 (New International Version) > > Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; > blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." > > Just what that Something was, or what it intended... That, even as > > an ordained minister, I can't tell you. I haven't a clue! SOme > > deductions based on some assumptions... but no Clues! > > But if I had designed life, I'd have iterated that design in a lot > > of places, and provided them some means of communicating with each > > other. > > I never presume that God follows my thought process when carrying out > a task. If we really understood God, nobody would say "God works in > mysterious ways," we would say "Well, that's part of the Divine > Standard Operating Procedure." Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! Duh! It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have faith that The Lord will provide!!!' > > I see none of that. Thus... I honor our saviors for what they > > DID, not for who sent them. > > I take it that by minister you did not mean a Christian one? Correct. Give Jesus his due. He did say some very good and needed things. Blame the mess and the dumbing down of the christian world on his followers. I think the followers of Athena did more, and we copied and embellished a lot of that to create Western Civilization. Christianity is just an add-on. Wrong size at that, warping the frame a bit, I think. If we're not careful, the frame will break and then we'll be in trouble as the hordes pour in. We need a good immigrations policy. Either that, or a good standards policy. If you want to declare yourselves Western, you must believe this and that. If you want to declare yourselves American, you must enact and enforce these laws for ten years, then we'll let you call yourselves American. (But still not let you in our borders.) Funny? That's the way Lithuania did it, creating a commonwealth from the Baltic Sea to the Black sea by the year 1200. Then the danged Christians started bribing us with white shirts and free baths. It all went downhill after that. > > I suspect this universe is an experiment; because an omniscient > > omnipotent creator would be insane; bored, trying to break the > > omniscience by experiment. Maybe we are the exception, the unexpected > > things that arose when the parameters were just right, kind of like then > > environment around the square root of two with it's strangeness. > > You can believe whatever you like, but what you're talking about isn't > at all based on science at this point. We are mad scientists, no? > >Also, evolution doesn't defeat > God's omniscience. God could understand exactly how everything > evolved. It also doesn't defeat God's omnipotence. It would be boring beyond belief to sit there for eternity knowing what is coming next! > It's also worth mentioning that there are multiple Christian > interpretations of the creation story. Why should we presume that all > of Christianity supports the version being taught in the classroom. > That's almost like saying that all of Christianity abhors drinking. > My church gets a keg for their annual pig picking. Christianity proves evolution! The strongest organizations and more inter-relatable compatible ideas won out. Now that would be an interesting proof of the evolutionary paradigm! I can see The Pope getting really, really frustrated with that kind of proof! It could be an interesting turning point in the annals of Christianity, even the annals of history! I wonder how anal he'd become when presented with that kind of proof. Anyone up to the challenge? -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From justinhart at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 14:20:14 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:20:22 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050810182046.28262.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050810182046.28262.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > How can you prove intelligent design experimentally? You plain > can't! You can only prove evolutionary use of a tendency to make > mistakes, and only under limited circumstances. > > Both require a lot of givens. This discussion shouldn't be about scientifically proving or disproving Intelligent Design. I don't care if you can do that. The core of the discussion is, should we teach things that did not come out of the scientific community in a science classroom. I simply believe that a science classroom is a place for science. > You can look at anything scientifically. Whether it makes sense, > whether you can extract and prove some hypothesis... well... So maybe > your hypothesis is proven or disproven by events which have already > happened. Why do YOU have to perform the experiments? Save yourself > some money, use historical data. You certainly can look at anything scientifically. I also agree, I don't have to perform the experiments. I read papers all of the time, where other people have gathered sufficient data for me. Indeed, this is at the core of modern science. > I mean, how much does it cost to create a universe these days? > Where are you going to get that kind of funding? Queen Isabella? That > only produced an existing "world" already contaminated by infidels with > a poor immigration policy. You're building strawman arguments. > > > Why??? Because you have nothing at the core of your argument. > No argument there! We don't need Ayatolia so's! Why are you allowing Bush to politicize it then? All this is is a political move. > The declaration of Independence. The pledge of allegiance, etc. > > As to teaching intelligent design in science class, it would be a > hoot! Look at all the shortcuts the class would come up with! A LOT of > creation stories have "the old guy" making mistakes, which the younger > assistants corrected. I mean, just look at that dinosaur period! Why on > earth did they get side-tracked on making bigger and bigger idiots??? > Something missing here folks? Or is it a replay (pre-play) of Detroit? Sure, none of them come from science. > Analogies abound! That's an excellent way of teaching thinking. Ok, but why does that make it science? > I like Intelligent Design... If taken as a given, then you start > looking for the rules. Well, you start looking for rules anyway in > physics... but there is more comment about the cute ways things come > out, and DON'T come out! > > And soon... as soon as you start asking about alternatives... you > see it's random chance combined with the mechanisms of advantage, that > rule. But it gets you THINKING!!! > > And THAT, is what Bush implied. What is Bush's PhD in again? It's not going to get kids thinking about what they should be thinking about in the science class. They should be thinking about science. > Ha Ha! Burn them at the stake! (Which ones, the scientists or the > priests??? Oh, the teachers? Well... we do that already with their > salaries.) > > Bush isn't a dummy, either. He said it in the best way that it > could be said! Let THE PEOPLE decide! Now the majority of the US population are scientists? > > > I am. I stand here (or sit here) on this earth. Something created > > > the laws of physics, or whatever, which led to me coming into existance. > > > That seems pretty incontrovertible to me. > > > > Evolution states that we were not designed. It controverts your statement. > > (I hate to say this quite this way, but...) Do you have trouble > with reading comprehension? Or does your bias prevent you from > extracting a neutral interpretation of my statement above? Please > re-read it. 680 Verbal on the GRE, if I recall. That's an exceptional score for someone whose education has been strictly in scientific disciplines. You said "incontrovertible." What I'm telling you is, if it were "incontrovertible," nobody would question it. > It is enough for a creator to create the prime principles (forces, > laws, whatever) from which the Universe came into being. I am, > therefore there was a creator, even if long, loooonnngggg before I was > born! > > Whether he/she/it/they are still active, is another matter. How does that enter into Intelligent Design. Also, here's a conundrum. If something created the universe, what created that thing? I would argue that to attempt to understand God in that way is futile. > What do you mean I didn't arrive at my conclusion scientifically??? > How can you possibly say that. I considered the evidence and the logic > behind that. > > If the universe (pana-verse, over-vers, supraverse, or whatever) > had not been created, it would not exist. If it did not exist, I would > not exist. And neither would you! Via your logic, something would have to have created the creator. The best analogy from science that I can come up with is the hierarchy found in decidability. > How can you refute that logical statement? > > What you think the creator is... that's your problem! It sure seems like a lot of people can refute this statement. > > The Bible says that this is ok: > > > > John 20:29 (New International Version) > > > > Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; > > blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." Nothing to say about this, eh? > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! Duh! > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have faith that > The Lord will provide!!!' Where. > > I take it that by minister you did not mean a Christian one? > > Correct. What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? > > Give Jesus his due. He did say some very good and needed things. > Blame the mess and the dumbing down of the christian world on his > followers. I'm really more interested in discussing the science issue than faith issues. > I think the followers of Athena did more, and we copied and > embellished a lot of that to create Western Civilization. Christianity is > just an add-on. Wrong size at that, warping the frame a bit, I think. Pagans become quite offended when you break down their religion, on a whole. I'll let your religion be, if you'll let mine be. > If we're not careful, the frame will break and then we'll be in > trouble as the hordes pour in. We need a good immigrations policy. > Either that, or a good standards policy. If you want to declare > yourselves Western, you must believe this and that. If you want to > declare yourselves American, you must enact and enforce these laws for > ten years, then we'll let you call yourselves American. (But still not > let you in our borders.) How far off topic are we doing to drag this discussion? > Funny? That's the way Lithuania did it, creating a commonwealth > from the Baltic Sea to the Black sea by the year 1200. Then the danged > Christians started bribing us with white shirts and free baths. It all > went downhill after that. Pretty far I guess. > > You can believe whatever you like, but what you're talking about isn't > > at all based on science at this point. > > We are mad scientists, no? I wish I had taken a debate class, so I could identify properly all the varieties of tangential arguments you're making. I have seen very little pushing at the core of the matter, no offense. > > >Also, evolution doesn't defeat > > God's omniscience. God could understand exactly how everything > > evolved. It also doesn't defeat God's omnipotence. > > It would be boring beyond belief to sit there for eternity knowing > what is coming next! Your earlier argument was that God went through an iterative design process with all of existence. Also, omniscience doesn't infer that you know exactly what will happen next (if it isn't set in stone), it just means that you know everything. Also, that doesn't break evolution, since a bored God would want the chaos that it brings. I'm pretty sure that God isn't afflicted by the trappings of man. Please refer to the omnipotence and omniscience bit. > Christianity proves evolution! The strongest organizations and more > inter-relatable compatible ideas won out. > Now that would be an interesting proof of the evolutionary > paradigm! I can see The Pope getting really, really frustrated with > that kind of proof! It could be an interesting turning point in the > annals of Christianity, even the annals of history! I wonder how anal > he'd become when presented with that kind of proof. > > Anyone up to the challenge? 1) I certainly don't think that several of the modern protestant churches represent stronger organizations or better ideas. 2) It's a stretch to argue that that is a scientific proof for evolution. 3) That still has nothing to do with teaching intelligent design. 4) The pope has much stronger arguments regarding evolution to worry about. Justin > > > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 10 14:25:43 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:25:55 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Articles from NASA propulsion conference Message-ID: <006f01c59df2$11078880$6501a8c0@mikey> http://www.americanantigravity.com/categories/Research/NASA-BPP-2001/ From justinhart at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 14:25:56 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:26:07 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science Message-ID: So, Anybody interested in discussing science? -- Justin W. Hart From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 10 14:26:43 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:26:53 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] "Throatless" rocket motor Message-ID: <007001c59df2$3493e000$6501a8c0@mikey> http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/Armadillo/Home/News?news_id=308 From justinhart at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 14:26:55 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:27:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Articles from NASA propulsion conference In-Reply-To: <006f01c59df2$11078880$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <006f01c59df2$11078880$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: Michael, you're the Best! Justin On 8/10/05, Michael Best wrote: > http://www.americanantigravity.com/categories/Research/NASA-BPP-2001/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From justinhart at gmail.com Wed Aug 10 14:28:13 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:28:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Articles from NASA propulsion conference In-Reply-To: References: <006f01c59df2$11078880$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: BTW, I heard the guy from this site on Coast to Coast AM the other night. Do you listen to that show? I admit that I take guilty pleasure in listening. I dont' believe in... just about anything that they discuss, but it's entertaining. Justin On 8/10/05, Justin Hart wrote: > Michael, you're the Best! > > Justin > > On 8/10/05, Michael Best wrote: > > http://www.americanantigravity.com/categories/Research/NASA-BPP-2001/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Mad-Scientists mailing list > > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > > > -- > Justin W. Hart > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 10 19:28:09 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 10 19:28:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 10, 2005 05:20:14 PM Message-ID: <20050811022809.98011.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > How can you prove intelligent design experimentally? You plain > > can't! You can only prove evolutionary use of a tendency to make > > mistakes, and only under limited circumstances. > >=20 > > Both require a lot of givens. > > This discussion shouldn't be about scientifically proving or > disproving Intelligent Design. I don't care if you can do that. The > core of the discussion is, should we teach things that did not come > out of the scientific community in a science classroom. We DO need to teach kids to think. How better, than exposing them to some debate about the most important thing there is -- existance? And also, the true appreciation of science is heightened by comparing it to the alternatives. And acceptance that not everything can, indeed, be answered within ANY system of reference. That is why I think this debate is relevant. And important. I mean, we mad scientists ourselves fall out of the paradigm of science. That's the essence of our mad scientist experience! And sometimes, Science catches up with us, recognizes that they were mistaken, and lets us back in. (Usually after our opponents are dead of old age, though sometimes it is shock.) > I simply believe that a science classroom is a place for science. > > > You can look at anything scientifically. Whether it makes sense, > > whether you can extract and prove some hypothesis... well... So maybe > > your hypothesis is proven or disproven by events which have already > > happened. Why do YOU have to perform the experiments? Save yourself > > some money, use historical data. > > You certainly can look at anything scientifically. I also agree, I > don't have to perform the experiments. I read papers all of the time, > where other people have gathered sufficient data for me. Indeed, this > is at the core of modern science. > =20 > > I mean, how much does it cost to create a universe these days? > > Where are you going to get that kind of funding? Queen Isabella? That > > only produced an existing "world" already contaminated by infidels with > > a poor immigration policy. > > You're building strawman arguments. So? Why not a little fun now and then? > Why are you allowing Bush to politicize it then? All this is is a > political move. The debate is far, far from being just political! It goes back in time since before history. It goes to the core of human curiosity. Which is the root of both science, and religion. > > As to teaching intelligent design in science class, it would be a > > hoot! Look at all the shortcuts the class would come up with! A LOT of > > creation stories have "the old guy" making mistakes, which the younger > > assistants corrected. I mean, just look at that dinosaur period! Why on > > earth did they get side-tracked on making bigger and bigger idiots??? > > Something missing here folks? Or is it a replay (pre-play) of Detroit? > > Sure, none of them come from science. What do you mean none of it comes from science? The very attempt to reconstruct the record of evolution IS at the core of a large part of science. As well as religion. > > Analogies abound! That's an excellent way of teaching thinking. > > Ok, but why does that make it science? An opportunity to apply the scientific method and contrast it to other methods. > > I like Intelligent Design... If taken as a given, then you start > > looking for the rules. Well, you start looking for rules anyway in > > physics... but there is more comment about the cute ways things come > > out, and DON'T come out! > > > > And soon... as soon as you start asking about alternatives... you > > see it's random chance combined with the mechanisms of advantage, that > > rule. But it gets you THINKING!!! > >dd > > And THAT, is what Bush implied. > > What is Bush's PhD in again? Oil, only it don't pile that high because it is somewhat less viscous than, say, sand. > It's not going to get kids thinking about what they should be thinking > about in the science class. They should be thinking about science. About the USE of and the Methods of Science as contrasted with other methods. Remember, Feynman said science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. We can just as well apply that to the clerical experts as to the scientific experts. > > Bush isn't a dummy, either. He said it in the best way that it > > could be said! Let THE PEOPLE decide! > > Now the majority of the US population are scientists? Well, you know... compared to the 1500's, maybe so. Compared with today's university grad student in a science lab, maybe no. It's all relative. But this society has taught a high percentage of us to think a heck of a lot more clearly than but bulk of humanity has ever thought! >>>> I am. I stand here (or sit here) on this earth. Something created >>>> the laws of physics, or whatever, which led to me coming into existance. >>>> That seems pretty incontrovertible to me. > 680 Verbal on the GRE, if I recall. That's an exceptional score for > someone whose education has been strictly in scientific disciplines. > You said "incontrovertible." What I'm telling you is, if it were > "incontrovertible," nobody would question it. No one does. They question something else. They rarely put two and one and one together to form four. > > It is enough for a creator to create the prime principles (forces, > > laws, whatever) from which the Universe came into being. I am, > > therefore there was a creator, even if long, loooonnngggg before I was > > born! > >=20 > > Whether he/she/it/they are still active, is another matter. > > How does that enter into Intelligent Design. Also, here's a > conundrum. If something created the universe, what created that > thing? Gee, isn't that where faith comes in? Science and Religion come from the same root of curiosity. And today, I think most of us place more faith in science than religion; but not either or. That is also a back door into arguing which way of life is better for us, that which is happening in the hills of Afghanistan, or here in the USA and England? > I would argue that to attempt to understand God in that way is futile. God really can not be understood. But the attempt is not futile! The attempt brings us back to looking at the world in more detail, asking questions, THINKING! Methods! What works better! > > What do you mean I didn't arrive at my conclusion scientifically??? > > How can you possibly say that. I considered the evidence and the logic > > behind that. > > > > If the universe (pana-verse, over-vers, supraverse, or whatever) > > had not been created, it would not exist. If it did not exist, I would > > not exist. And neither would you! > > Via your logic, something would have to have created the creator. So? So what's wrong with that??? If you read the bible, there is a shift which sounds like a corporate takeover resulting in a change of management. > The best analogy from science that I can come up with is the hierarchy > found in decidability. But you can't be sure of any fixed, deterministic hierarchical system. We have not enough information. We are guessing, even in science. We are guessing a lot more carefully and better using science, but science can not, AND SHOULD NOT, claim it has definitive answers for everything. Or the corelary, that X is junk because it is not scientifically proven. That is the arrogance of science which many of us have to fight in the medical arena. I mean, just because science can not understand homeopathy, does not mean homeopathy does not work. It's just another tool. > > How can you refute that logical statement? > > > > What you think the creator is... that's your problem! > > It sure seems like a lot of people can refute this statement. They can try. Just as long as they don't try to refute it with a bullet to my head, because that does not refute that I was. > > > The Bible says that this is ok: > > > > > > John 20:29 (New International Version) > > > > > > Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; > > > blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." > > Nothing to say about this, eh? Does not trigger any thoughts. People believe things all the time. Sometimes correctly, sometimes erroneously. I'll side with my father's belief. He is a devout agnostic. He does not know, and believes no one else does. Especially not the priests, who are beholden to an organization who's primary goal is survival, NOT our welfare, etc. > > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! Duh! > > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have faith that > > The Lord will provide!!!' > > Where. I missed your point. You probably missed mine as well. > > > I take it that by minister you did not mean a Christian one? > >=20 > > Correct. > > What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? Just as long as there was discussion vs what we have found via geology, paleontology, etc. > > Give Jesus his due. He did say some very good and needed things. > > Blame the mess and the dumbing down of the christian world on his > > followers. > > I'm really more interested in discussing the science issue than faith issues. I think part of the problem with both science and religion comes from the same core arrogance in saying X is junk if it isn't from our dogma. Science has trouble with ESP, homeopathy, etc. Religion has trouble with paleontology. Yet all these things exist in the thoughts of the common man. And the common man makes decisions based upon what he knows, right or wrong. Science is a method more apply than religious similarity, etc. etc. as long ago. > > I think the followers of Athena did more, and we copied and > > embellished a lot of that to create Western Civilization. Christianity is > > just an add-on. Wrong size at that, warping the frame a bit, I think. > > Pagans become quite offended when you break down their religion, on a > whole. I'll let your religion be, if you'll let mine be. So? So maybe we need to discuss issues before the frame breaks! Our beliefs are based upon the deeds of ... ??? Prophets? Saints? Humans? Saviors??? The precedence sometimes needs to be examined for implications. > > If we're not careful, the frame will break and then we'll be in > > trouble as the hordes pour in. We need a good immigrations policy. > > Either that, or a good standards policy. If you want to declare > > yourselves Western, you must believe this and that. If you want to > > declare yourselves American, you must enact and enforce these laws for > > ten years, then we'll let you call yourselves American. (But still not > > let you in our borders.) > > How far off topic are we doing to drag this discussion? > > > Funny? That's the way Lithuania did it, creating a commonwealth > > from the Baltic Sea to the Black sea by the year 1200. Then the danged > > Christians started bribing us with white shirts and free baths. It all > > went downhill after that. > > Pretty far I guess. Comes back to our founding fathers (USA) and the unity of the states. > > > You can believe whatever you like, but what you're talking about isn't > > > at all based on science at this point. > >=20 > > We are mad scientists, no? > > I wish I had taken a debate class, so I could identify properly all > the varieties of tangential arguments you're making. I have seen very > little pushing at the core of the matter, no offense. Perhaps I am making too many jokes, or am not eloquent enough. Debate, as a formality, is just that. The question is whether it grips the mind; not whether it meet formality. And different people respond to different things. > > > >Also, evolution doesn't defeat > > > God's omniscience. God could understand exactly how everything > > > evolved. It also doesn't defeat God's omnipotence. > > > > It would be boring beyond belief to sit there for eternity knowing > > what is coming next! > > Your earlier argument was that God went through an iterative design > process with all of existence. Also, omniscience doesn't infer that No. That does not necessarily follow what I said about creating the laws of physics. This could well be a one shot experiment. Set up the initial conditions, and see what happens. When the universe dissipates or collapses, alter the parameters and try again. But we, would then not be iteratively designed within this universe; the universe would be an iteration of design. > you know exactly what will happen next (if it isn't set in stone), it > just means that you know everything. Also, that doesn't break > evolution, since a bored God would want the chaos that it brings. > > I'm pretty sure that God isn't afflicted by the trappings of man.=20 > Please refer to the omnipotence and omniscience bit. This goes to the core of prayer in religion. Does it help? Some experiments show that prayer does help. How do you explain this? My explanation involves ESP as an electromagnetic resonance phenomenon based on chemistry and wave shape. It kind of leads to a scientific view of a plausibility of a soul via a low bandwidth informational back channel among humans. Freud and Jung addressed this to some extent as a collective sub-couscous phenomenon. My theory does not violate known physics, and the encouragement effects of the back channel could explain some of the effects of prayer. Someone else may call it God. > > Christianity proves evolution! The strongest organizations and more > > inter-relatable compatible ideas won out. > > > Now that would be an interesting proof of the evolutionary > > paradigm! I can see The Pope getting really, really frustrated with > > that kind of proof! It could be an interesting turning point in the > > annals of Christianity, even the annals of history! I wonder how anal > > he'd become when presented with that kind of proof. > >=20 > > Anyone up to the challenge? > > 1) I certainly don't think that several of the modern protestant > churches represent stronger organizations or better ideas. Vs alternatives in paganism? More concentrated, I believe. Yet we see the Goddess mutate into The Virgin Mary. > 2) It's a stretch to argue that that is a scientific proof for evolution. Well, proof of some of the principles. Certainly enough to vex the Catholic Church! > 3) That still has nothing to do with teaching intelligent design. The principles! > 4) The pope has much stronger arguments regarding evolution to worry about= The closeness! Remember, G = Mass1 * Mass2 / distance. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 10 19:56:09 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 10 19:56:19 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. Message-ID: <008401c59e20$3a4aa640$6501a8c0@mikey> Reactionless propulsion- This has been an interest of mine for while. I've done lots of research, some experimentation, and have seen things that I cannot explain. I believe that we are on the verge of harnessing this technology, and several groups are working on this presently. Coast-to-coast AM- IMHO, this guy is out there. Way out there. But he can be entertaining, at times. Intelligent design- I can think of nothing more intelligently designed than evolution. I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized religion. -MB From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 21:08:23 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 10 21:08:50 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <008401c59e20$3a4aa640$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050811040823.72904.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Michael Best wrote: Reactionless propulsion- This has been an interest of mine for while. I've done lots of research, some experimentation, and have seen things that I cannot explain. I believe that we are on the verge of harnessing this technology, and several groups are working on this presently. TOROID GYRO SPACE DRIVES; WITH PERFECTED MICRO THERMONUCLEAR REACTOR POWER PLANTS, FOR THE FUTURE. Coast-to-coast AM- IMHO, this guy is out there. Way out there. But he can be entertaining, at times. Intelligent design- YEAH, INTELLIGENT DESIGN: CREATIONISM. BUT EVOLUTION APPEARS TO ONLY BE A PRODUCT OF THE LEARNING PROCESS ALONE. I'M TOO DAMNED TIRED RIGHT NOW TO ATTEMPT TO ARGUE THIS FUCKING ISSUE ANYMORE THOUGH, IF I HAVE EVEN PRESENTED ENOUGH HERE, TO ARGUE ABOUT. I can think of nothing more intelligently designed than evolution. CREATION AND EVOLUTION, CO-EXIST. DANGEROUS, BUT THAT IS MY OBSERVATION. I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized religion. POLITICS AND RELIGION ALWAYS FUCK THINGS UP. POLITICS AND RELIGION ARE A CEASELESS IMPEDENCE TO SCIENCE AND SCIENTIFIC PROGRESSION. GRANTED THOUGH; WITHOUT RELIGION, WE WOULD HAVE NO MORAL GUIDELINES TO GO BY, AND WOULD LIKELY ALL BE SLAUGHTERING EACH OTHER, OVER EVERY FUCKING ARGUEMENT THAT WE HAVE. I NEED TO GO. LATER; CLYDE -MB __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050810/4bb3b5d3/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 10 21:15:02 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 10 21:15:08 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: CORRECTION. In-Reply-To: <20050811040823.72904.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050811041502.65103.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> CORRECTION: Michael Best wrote: Reactionless propulsion- This has been an interest of mine for while. I've done lots of research, some experimentation, and have seen things that I cannot explain. I believe that we are on the verge of harnessing this technology, and several groups are working on this presently. TOROID GYRO SPACE DRIVES; WITH PERFECTED MICRO THERMONUCLEAR *FUSION* REACTOR POWER PLANTS, FOR THE FUTURE. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050810/db21557a/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 10 23:53:49 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 10 23:54:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <008401c59e20$3a4aa640$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 10, 2005 10:56:09 PM Message-ID: <20050811065350.38334.qmail@mall-net.com> > Reactionless propulsion- > > This has been an interest of mine for while. I've done lots of = > research, > some experimentation, and have seen things that I cannot explain. I = > believe > that we are on the verge of harnessing this technology, and several = > groups > are working on this presently. Propulsion? Or Traction??? New forms of propulsion are kind of hard to develop. Traction might not be. For traction, you need some kind of surface, though a media might do. Space time? How can we create ripples in the fabric of space time? Then, we can mesh the ripples and move on it. > I can think of nothing more intelligently designed than evolution. Yep! Clyde's minimalist desire. Set a few basic laws or forces, and let's see what we get. Takes a while... > I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized > religion. Laughing! And if someone starts comparing, I mean really comparing the two, I think it becomes obvious that nature harnesses the worst, where as intelligence tries to harness the best. Nature works, albeit slowly. The intelligent... they have problems with their designs. but intelligence is generally faster than nature's blind trials. So in the end, if you want to believe in intelligent design, you have to believe our creator set a few parameters, defined the laws of physics... and let it rip! Thus, priests need to study physics and information theory, not liturgy! -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 01:02:10 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 01:02:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050811022809.98011.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050811022809.98011.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > > This discussion shouldn't be about scientifically proving or > > disproving Intelligent Design. I don't care if you can do that. The > > core of the discussion is, should we teach things that did not come > > out of the scientific community in a science classroom. > > We DO need to teach kids to think. How better, than exposing them > to some debate about the most important thing there is -- existance? > And also, the true appreciation of science is heightened by > comparing it to the alternatives. And acceptance that not everything > can, indeed, be answered within ANY system of reference. > > That is why I think this debate is relevant. And important. Science classes should be about science. I took history courses too, but I discussed politics in my government class, not my history class, even if politics influence history greatly, politics belongs in the politics class, and history in the history class. > I mean, we mad scientists ourselves fall out of the paradigm of > science. That's the essence of our mad scientist experience! And > sometimes, Science catches up with us, recognizes that they were > mistaken, and lets us back in. (Usually after our opponents are dead > of old age, though sometimes it is shock.) I work very much inside the system. There is plenty of debate in here. That said, I back my statements only with science, not with conjecture or theology or anything else. Believe me, there is plenty of mad science to go around without compromising either rigour or integrity. > So? Why not a little fun now and then? Your fun is fine, but I don't even need to build an argument against them. If I've identified it as a tactic, rather than an argument, I can counter the tactic by identifying it and exposing it, and asking you to return back to core arguments. It's a valid tactic. > > Why are you allowing Bush to politicize it then? All this is is a > > political move. > > The debate is far, far from being just political! It goes back in > time since before history. It goes to the core of human curiosity. > Which is the root of both science, and religion. It's Bush trying to bump up his approval rating. > What do you mean none of it comes from science? The very attempt to > reconstruct the record of evolution IS at the core of a large part of > science. As well as religion. I would feel very awkward in submitting a paper to a journal where my core argument involved mythology. > > > Analogies abound! That's an excellent way of teaching thinking. > > > > Ok, but why does that make it science? > > An opportunity to apply the scientific method and contrast it to > other methods. The purpose of introducing Intelligent Design is to have a scientific theory that doesn't disagree with creation myths, not to present religion as an alternative method, that will not be explored as a part of the class. > > What is Bush's PhD in again? > > Oil, only it don't pile that high because it is somewhat less > viscous than, say, sand. So, that makes him a qualified authority on science because? > > It's not going to get kids thinking about what they should be thinking > > about in the science class. They should be thinking about science. > > About the USE of and the Methods of Science as contrasted with > other methods. I commented that I do not feel that this is the purpose of the legislation above. > Remember, Feynman said science is the belief in the ignorance of > experts. We can just as well apply that to the clerical experts as to > the scientific experts. That's fine, but a science class should be about what is currently believed by science. > > Now the majority of the US population are scientists? > > Well, you know... compared to the 1500's, maybe so. Compared with > today's university grad student in a science lab, maybe no. It's all > relative. But this society has taught a high percentage of us to think > a heck of a lot more clearly than but bulk of humanity has ever thought! Sure, but the scientific community determines what constitutes science. > > 680 Verbal on the GRE, if I recall. That's an exceptional score for > > someone whose education has been strictly in scientific disciplines. > > You said "incontrovertible." What I'm telling you is, if it were > > "incontrovertible," nobody would question it. > > No one does. They question something else. They rarely put two > and one and one together to form four. Plenty do, or Intelligent Design would stand on trivial proof, and would already be taught in the classroom. > > How does that enter into Intelligent Design. Also, here's a > > conundrum. If something created the universe, what created that > > thing? > > Gee, isn't that where faith comes in? Faith, not science. > Science and Religion come from the same root of curiosity. And > today, I think most of us place more faith in science than religion; but > not either or. Nope, I believe that my faith comes from acts of God. I don't believe that man made up my religion. The only reason that I follow my religion is because I truly believe it, not because I need it to explain anything. > That is also a back door into arguing which way of life is better > for us, that which is happening in the hills of Afghanistan, or here in > the USA and England? Part of the reason that it is better is because we don't push religion into politics. Look at churches that are highly politicized. That has nothing to do with religious enlightenment. > > I would argue that to attempt to understand God in that way is futile. > > God really can not be understood. > > But the attempt is not futile! The attempt brings us back to > looking at the world in more detail, asking questions, THINKING! > Methods! What works better! Sure, but your argument was that if you were God, you would have formed the world via an iterative process. I do not presume to understand how God works, and therefore don't presume that he would follow the process that I would. > > Via your logic, something would have to have created the creator. > > So? So what's wrong with that??? > > If you read the bible, there is a shift which sounds like a > corporate takeover resulting in a change of management. ...and then something created that one, and the one before it, and the one before it. > > > The best analogy from science that I can come up with is the hierarchy > > found in decidability. > > But you can't be sure of any fixed, deterministic hierarchical > system. We have not enough information. We are guessing, even in > science. We are guessing a lot more carefully and better using science, > but science can not, AND SHOULD NOT, claim it has definitive answers for > everything. Or the corelary, that X is junk because it is not > scientifically proven. That is the arrogance of science which many of > us have to fight in the medical arena. I mean, just because science can > not understand homeopathy, does not mean homeopathy does not work. > It's just another tool. The question is what should be taught in science class, not whether or not science has all of the answers. My assertion is that science should be taught in science class. The reason being that the class ostensibly covers science. Arguing that religion should be taught in science class is like arguing that french should be taught in Spanish class. Both science and religion are ways of answering questions about the universe... both french and Spanish are languages. > > > How can you refute that logical statement? > > > > > > What you think the creator is... that's your problem! > > > > It sure seems like a lot of people can refute this statement. > > They can try. Just as long as they don't try to refute it with a > bullet to my head, because that does not refute that I was. Nobody is sending storm troopers into churches forcing them to accept evolution. All anybody is asking is that science classes be reserved for science. It's politicians with police and prisons and guns that are trying to force religious beliefs (that aren't shared by all religions practiced in this country, mind you) into the classroom. The real irony is that while we are forcing religion out of public spaces, and telling kids not to pray in school, we're trying to force a religious concept into a science class. Honestly, there are good fights to be fought, this just isn't one of them. > > > > The Bible says that this is ok: > > > > > > > > John 20:29 (New International Version) > > > > > > > > Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; > > > > blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." > > > > Nothing to say about this, eh? > > Does not trigger any thoughts. People believe things all the time. > Sometimes correctly, sometimes erroneously. It's at the core of the argument. These people believe that sneaking their religion into science makes it more credible. They can't just believe it on faith, but that's all that God asked them to do, in their own religion. > I'll side with my father's belief. He is a devout agnostic. He > does not know, and believes no one else does. Especially not the > priests, who are beholden to an organization who's primary goal is > survival, NOT our welfare, etc. An agnostic would not fight so hard to push this into a science class. > > > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! Duh! > > > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have faith that > > > The Lord will provide!!!' > > > > Where. > > I missed your point. You probably missed mine as well. My argument was that I would never argue that God follows my thought process, or that I could understand his. I stated that the reason that we say that "God works in mysterious ways," is because we do not find acts of God to be predictable. Your statement was that, somewhere in religion, it says that we should do just that. I then asked where in religion it asked that we should do that. > > > > I take it that by minister you did not mean a Christian one? > > >=20 > > > Correct. > > > > What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? > > Just as long as there was discussion vs what we have found via > geology, paleontology, etc. But why not just skip it? It's not relevant. > > I'm really more interested in discussing the science issue than faith issues. > > I think part of the problem with both science and religion comes > from the same core arrogance in saying X is junk if it isn't from our > dogma. Absolutely not. Science is very open to new ideas and thoughts, all that it asks is that you provide convincing evidence to back them. Indeed, at AAAI this year, I heard several speakers suggest that we should do a 180 spin on the direction of research. That said, they made arguments as to why they felt this way. > Science has trouble with ESP, homeopathy, etc. Religion has trouble > with paleontology. Yet all these things exist in the thoughts of the > common man. And the common man makes decisions based upon what he > knows, right or wrong. Science is a method more apply than religious > similarity, etc. etc. as long ago. That's fine. Keep science in the science classroom is all I'm arguing for. Also, there have been scientific experiments on ESP, homeopathic medicines, and other concepts. Don't tihnk that must because these sound "weird" that they haven't been explored scientifically, because they have! Incidentally, what keeps us from exploring medical marijuana isn't the scientific community, it's the government. > > > I think the followers of Athena did more, and we copied and > > > embellished a lot of that to create Western Civilization. Christianity is > > > just an add-on. Wrong size at that, warping the frame a bit, I think. > > > > Pagans become quite offended when you break down their religion, on a > > whole. I'll let your religion be, if you'll let mine be. > > So? So maybe we need to discuss issues before the frame breaks! > Our beliefs are based upon the deeds of ... ??? Prophets? Saints? > Humans? Saviors??? The precedence sometimes needs to be examined for > implications. What I'm saying is that I generally leave pagan beliefs alone, because I don't want to offend pagans. It does seems as thought everyone feels free to chime in when it comes to christianity though. > > Pretty far I guess. > > Comes back to our founding fathers (USA) and the unity of the > states. The point being that we were discussing Intelligent Design vs Darwinism, and, in particular, it's place in the science classroom, not Lithuanian politics. > > I wish I had taken a debate class, so I could identify properly all > > the varieties of tangential arguments you're making. I have seen very > > little pushing at the core of the matter, no offense. > > Perhaps I am making too many jokes, or am not eloquent enough. > Debate, as a formality, is just that. The question is whether it grips > the mind; not whether it meet formality. And different people respond > to different things. You're fine, but you're deviating from core arguments, and backing your statement which rhetorical devices. I merely wish that I had taken the time the take a proper debate class out of intellectual interest. I can disarm such arguments quite effectively, but it takes more work without proper training. > No. That does not necessarily follow what I said about creating the > laws of physics. This could well be a one shot experiment. Set up the > initial conditions, and see what happens. When the universe dissipates > or collapses, alter the parameters and try again. But we, would then not > be iteratively designed within this universe; the universe would be an > iteration of design. Your statement was that it would be boring to know exactly what would happen next. What I am saying is that you can be all knowing without being prescient. > > you know exactly what will happen next (if it isn't set in stone), it > > just means that you know everything. Also, that doesn't break > > evolution, since a bored God would want the chaos that it brings. > > > > I'm pretty sure that God isn't afflicted by the trappings of man.=20 > > Please refer to the omnipotence and omniscience bit. > > This goes to the core of prayer in religion. Does it help? Some > experiments show that prayer does help. How do you explain this? You missed what I was saying. What I'm saying is, God may not be able to become bored. That's all. I believe that prayer helps because I am of the Lutheran faith. If experiments show that prayer helps, then those results are scientific results, and are perfectly admissible in whatever field they may be applicable to. That said, that proves nothing regarding creationism. > My explanation involves ESP as an electromagnetic resonance > phenomenon based on chemistry and wave shape. It kind of leads to a > scientific view of a plausibility of a soul via a low bandwidth > informational back channel among humans. Freud and Jung addressed this > to some extent as a collective sub-couscous phenomenon. My theory does > not violate known physics, and the encouragement effects of the back > channel could explain some of the effects of prayer. > > Someone else may call it God. Eh, ok. I still don't believe that creationism belongs in science class. > > > Christianity proves evolution! The strongest organizations and more > > > inter-relatable compatible ideas won out. > > > > > Now that would be an interesting proof of the evolutionary > > > paradigm! I can see The Pope getting really, really frustrated with > > > that kind of proof! It could be an interesting turning point in the > > > annals of Christianity, even the annals of history! I wonder how anal > > > he'd become when presented with that kind of proof. > > >=20 > > > Anyone up to the challenge? > > > > 1) I certainly don't think that several of the modern protestant > > churches represent stronger organizations or better ideas. > > Vs alternatives in paganism? More concentrated, I believe. Yet we > see the Goddess mutate into The Virgin Mary. No, vs Catholicism. Neo-paganism, mind you, is only about 30 years old, yet presents itself as an alternative to Catholicism as well, though I doubt that the Pope would view neo-paganism as a more evolved faith than Catholicism. > > 2) It's a stretch to argue that that is a scientific proof for evolution. > > Well, proof of some of the principles. Certainly enough to vex the > Catholic Church! It wouldn't bother the Pope in the least, except for the assertion that, somehow, the more radical Protestant faiths are superior to Catholicism. > > 3) That still has nothing to do with teaching intelligent design. > > The principles! Nope. > > 4) The pope has much stronger arguments regarding evolution to worry about= > > The closeness! Remember, G = Mass1 * Mass2 / distance. I could argue that my Z28 is far more fuel efficient at 120 MPH than at 55 MPH (and it is), but the cop would still write me a ticket. > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 01:11:29 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 01:11:35 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <008401c59e20$3a4aa640$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <008401c59e20$3a4aa640$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: On 8/10/05, Michael Best wrote: > Reactionless propulsion- > > This has been an interest of mine for while. I've done lots of research, > some experimentation, and have seen things that I cannot explain. I believe > that we are on the verge of harnessing this technology, and several groups > are working on this presently. Very entertaining stuff, but outside of my field, so I only look upon it as a casual observer. > > Coast-to-coast AM- > > IMHO, this guy is out there. Way out there. But he can be entertaining, at > times. Are you kidding? Way out there doesn't start to describe it. That said, every now and again, he gets a guest that even he can't buy into at all. Those shows are fun to listen to a bit, but hard to enjoy in their entirety. > > Intelligent design- > > I can think of nothing more intelligently designed than evolution. Nicely put. > I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized > religion. Eh, I disagree. Lots of people blame on religion, what squarely belongs blamed on politics. > > -MB > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From clydelofton at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 07:32:37 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Thu Aug 11 07:32:47 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050811143237.79168.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> > Intelligent design- > > I can think of nothing more intelligently designed than evolution. Nicely put. IF I CAN EVOLVE BEYOND THIS NEVERENDING SENSELESS HELL THAT HAS BEEN INDUCED INTO ME, AND FORCED UPON MY LIFE? CAN I BECOME SUPERHUMAN, AND OR ASSIMILATE MYSELF, LIKE THE BORG; TO BECOME A MAN-MACHINE??? CAN I MODIFY MY D.N.A. TO TRANSCEND THE PRESENT CURSE, OF THIS FLESH AND BLOOD AND BONES, EXISTANCE AND REALITY, THAT I AM FORCED TO HAVE TO PUT UP WITH, SINCE WE WERE ALL BORN THIS WAY??? BORN TO DIE; AND IN THE PROCESS/S OF LIVING, THE EXPERIENCES OF PAIN, SUFFERING, PLEASURE, AND EVEN SINFUL PLEASURE-IF THE LIVES THAT WE LEAD, LACK IN SELF RESTRAINT; LACK MORALISM. PAIN SUFFERING AND MISERY HAVE BECOME SO STRONG IN MY LIFE NOW. I WANT RELIEF. I NEARLY DESPERATELY NEED RELIEF. THE CHIROPRACTOR INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE HAS BEEN OF THE MOST BENEFIT, ALONG WITH ADRENAL REDUCTION, WHEN ADRENAL REDUCTION AND THE TRACTION TABLE ARE AVAILABLE FOR USAGE; PROBLEM IS, IS THAT THEY ARE NOT CONSTANT 24/7 STRESS RELIVERS. I NEED 24/7 STRESS RELIEF. (SEPERATE SUBJECT:) AN INTERESTING EXPERIMENT THAT I'D LIKE TO TRY: TO SEE IF AN ELECTROENCEPHALOGRAM CAN BE AUDIO AND RADIO FREQUENCY AMPLIFIED, AND TO MONITOR WHAT THE RESULTS WOULD BE, THROUGH BOTH THE AIRWAVES, AND OVER THE POWERLINES; B.P.L.(BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES). COULD AN AMPLIFIED ELECTROENCEPHALOGRAM; (BRAINWAVE MONITOR), MODULATE THE 60 CYCLE E.M. FIELD, PRODUCED BY A FLOURESCENT LIGHT, TO TRANSMIT BRAINWAVE INFORMATION OVER THE POWERLINES??? HOPE THIS DOESN'T GIVE ANY BAD IDEAS FOR CERTAIN FOLKS OUT THERE, TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY FOR CORRUPT INTRUSIVE INTENTIONS. MAYBE THIS THINKING IS TOO FAR FETCHED. I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY THAT I NEED, TO EXPERIMENT WITH ALL OF THE TECHNOLOGY. JUST THOUGHT EXPERIMENTS FOR NOW I GUESS; I MAY NEVER GET ENOUGH MONEY TO DO THE ACTUAL HANDS ON PROJECTS SOME DAY. > I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized > religion. Eh, I disagree. Lots of people put blame on religion, what squarely belongs blamed on politics. JUST BLAME BOTH POLITICS AND RELIGION::::::: EQUALLY! BUT DON'T ENTIRELY FORSAKE RELIGION. MAYBE I'M CONFUSED AS HELL. > -MB CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050811/cfdd5027/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 08:37:21 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 08:37:30 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 04:11:29 AM Message-ID: <20050811153721.66946.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized > > religion. > > Eh, I disagree. Lots of people blame on religion, what squarely > belongs blamed on politics. Do you mean the politics of religion, or the politics of government? -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From clydelofton at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 08:50:37 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Thu Aug 11 08:50:43 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <20050811153721.66946.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050811155037.55955.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > > > I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized > > religion. > > Eh, I disagree. Lots of people blame on religion, what squarely > belongs blamed on politics. Do you mean the politics of religion, or the politics of government? ARE YOU ASKING ME; OR ARE YOU ASKING MR. BEST? WHAT I MEAN IS THE POLITICS OF BOTH GOVT., AND THE POLITICS OF RELIGION/S, EQUALLY. TOO MUCH ARGUEMENT GETS NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL THINGS, AS IT SEEMS THAT WAY TO ME. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050811/f40e3eb3/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 09:05:57 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Thu Aug 11 09:06:28 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Etc. CORRECTION. In-Reply-To: <20050811155037.55955.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050811160558.50942.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> CORRECTION: clyde lofton wrote: ARE YOU ASKING ME; OR ARE YOU ASKING *MR. HART*? WHAT I MEAN IS THE POLITICS OF BOTH GOVT., AND THE POLITICS OF RELIGION/S, EQUALLY. TOO MUCH ARGUEMENT GETS NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL THINGS, AS IT SEEMS THAT WAY TO ME. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050811/e257eecf/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 10:36:35 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 10:36:43 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 04:02:10 AM Message-ID: <20050811173635.26474.qmail@mall-net.com> > > We DO need to teach kids to think. How better, than exposing them > > to some debate about the most important thing there is -- existance? > > And also, the true appreciation of science is heightened by > > comparing it to the alternatives. And acceptance that not everything > > can, indeed, be answered within ANY system of reference. > >=20 > > That is why I think this debate is relevant. And important. > > Science classes should be about science. I took history courses too, > but I discussed politics in my government class, not my history class, > even if politics influence history greatly, politics belongs in the > politics class, and history in the history class. Science is about facts and methods of thought. History does not teach methods of thought, and the teachers are totally unqualified to do so. This also has to do with the place of science in society. > > I mean, we mad scientists ourselves fall out of the paradigm of > > science. That's the essence of our mad scientist experience! And > > sometimes, Science catches up with us, recognizes that they were > > mistaken, and lets us back in. (Usually after our opponents are dead > > of old age, though sometimes it is shock.) > > I work very much inside the system. There is plenty of debate in > here. That said, I back my statements only with science, not with > conjecture or theology or anything else. Believe me, there is plenty > of mad science to go around without compromising either rigour or > integrity. Fine! > > So? Why not a little fun now and then? > > Your fun is fine, but I don't even need to build an argument against > them. If I've identified it as a tactic, rather than an argument, I > can counter the tactic by identifying it and exposing it, and asking > you to return back to core arguments. It's a valid tactic. I do not contest the validity of your tactics. > > What do you mean none of it comes from science? The very attempt to > > reconstruct the record of evolution IS at the core of a large part of > > science. As well as religion. > > I would feel very awkward in submitting a paper to a journal where my > core argument involved mythology. I am not asking you to do so. But so what? But on another level, are not the discovery of fossils, or geo-nuclear heat, etc. all disprovals of creation myths? We've had these debates and mentions in journals and books before. > > An opportunity to apply the scientific method and contrast it to > > other methods. > > The purpose of introducing Intelligent Design is to have a scientific > theory that doesn't disagree with creation myths, not to present > religion as an alternative method, that will not be explored as a part > of the class. (Chuckle,) A theory which can not stand up to science! And so, the contrast of what we find through one method vs another. What are you afraid of? That Science is so weak it can not stand up to religion? That it is so jealous and fragile, that it can not accept a faith in a God, which may have created the Universe? Science, through open debate in the press, has decimated religion! Let the debate continue! Let it get more explicit on methods of thought, etc. Bush asked to let the kids hear both sides of the story and make up their own minds. > > > What is Bush's PhD in again? > >=20 > > Oil, only it don't pile that high because it is somewhat less > > viscous than, say, sand. > > So, that makes him a qualified authority on science because? He is not an authority on science. That's not his job. His job is to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and to help organize and run this country. Part of that allows him to make suggestions as to education, suggestions people can and will debate. > > > It's not going to get kids thinking about what they should be thinking > > > about in the science class. They should be thinking about science. > >=20 > > About the USE of and the Methods of Science as contrasted with > > other methods. > > I commented that I do not feel that this is the purpose of the > legislation above. What legislation? Bush proposed legislation? He did not. He made a suggestion. > > Remember, Feynman said science is the belief in the ignorance of > > experts. We can just as well apply that to the clerical experts as to > > the scientific experts. > > That's fine, but a science class should be about what is currently > believed by science. Really? I did a report on UFOs. Currently believed by science? Nooo... and that was the essence of my report. But I said that there was something unknown at the core of some of these things which we must admit and should keep investigating. Today, I would be more eloquent about the arrogance of science when it trashes something out of hand without looking at it to see what it is or isn't. Our mad science experience again. Trashing of things like Homeopathy and plate tectonics, of innumerable things which have evidence of working, but the mechanisms are not known. In the case of plate tectonics, the evidence overwhelmed the objections. In the case of homeopathy, the hundreds of years of evidence of it working is still dismissed because the mechanisms are not yet understood. If something works, it works. Look at the statistics, then look FOR mechanisms rather than trying to destroy it just because you are ignorant. (But of course, with pharmacology funding the research, everyone seems to want to destroy it without learning anything that might threaten pharmacology.) Project Bluebook was intersting. It dismissed 99+% of the UFO observations as misunderstandings by people of human or natural phenomenon. But it did say there were a very small number of observations which really could not be explained away. They admitted there was something they did not know, and should keep investigating. Admission we don't know is the opposite of the arrogance we so often find in science as an institution. (Though no doubt some who thought they saw alien somethings may have thought it arrogant that their beliefs were trashed by mere facts and non-believers.) > > > Now the majority of the US population are scientists? > >=20 > > Well, you know... compared to the 1500's, maybe so. Compared with > > today's university grad student in a science lab, maybe no. It's all > > relative. But this society has taught a high percentage of us to think > > a heck of a lot more clearly than but bulk of humanity has ever thought! > > Sure, but the scientific community determines what constitutes science. Excuse me? This is a democracy, not a dictatorship. Words are defined by usage, not the dictates of authorities. Yes,. this is particularly hard for science, which is a kind of private club of folks who approve or disapprove publications in peer reviewed journals. But it is the lay public which interprets the meanings of words. And bends them constantly. Especially when advertisers-without-a-clue encourage them to do so! > Plenty do, or Intelligent Design would stand on trivial proof, and > would already be taught in the classroom. But in some parts of the country, I believe it is -- without the teaching of Darwin's Theory. > > > How does that enter into Intelligent Design. Also, here's a > > > conundrum. If something created the universe, what created that > > > thing? > >=20 > > Gee, isn't that where faith comes in? > > Faith, not science. You asked the question. What's wrong with faith that something created the universe? Why must we use science to say God does not exist? What's that about being unable to prove a negative conjecture? Science can not, and should not, be used to destroy faith. Science can, and should, examine the handiwork of God (or whatever) to see how it works. That's not being unfaithful, it's being curious. And if we do refute the dogmatic conjectures of some religious mullahs, well, maybe they ought to go and mull their conjectures over some more. > > Science and Religion come from the same root of curiosity. And > > today, I think most of us place more faith in science than religion; but > > not either or. > > Nope, I believe that my faith comes from acts of God. I don't believe > that man made up my religion. The only reason that I follow my > religion is because I truly believe it, not because I need it to > explain anything. So if I use science to show that someone told a fib... to demolish this or that belief, you get offended -- Like the myth of the Virgin Mary. Either Christ was a spontaneous cloning, which does happen, though very, very rarely in humans, and thus female; or somebody fooled around just a little with either facts or something else. And later acquired status by the accretion of pagan Goddess beliefs which could not be conveniently stamped out. You don't like science doing that, do you? I believe religion and science owe the people the truth. And that there is plenty to be reverent about as one peels the layers off the onion to see what really happened, and the hows and why's of its influence upon us today. > > That is also a back door into arguing which way of life is better > > for us, that which is happening in the hills of Afghanistan, or here in > > the USA and England? > > Part of the reason that it is better is because we don't push religion > into politics. Look at churches that are highly politicized. That > has nothing to do with religious enlightenment. Ooooh Yeesss!!! But so is almost all religion! Look at the debates in Catholicism. > > > I would argue that to attempt to understand God in that way is futile. > >=20 > > God really can not be understood. > >=20 > > But the attempt is not futile! The attempt brings us back to > > looking at the world in more detail, asking questions, THINKING! > > Methods! What works better! > > Sure, but your argument was that if you were God, you would have > formed the world via an iterative process. I do not presume to > understand how God works, and therefore don't presume that he would > follow the process that I would. When did I say what I would have done? I said it could have been done. (Got to check my language. I might have said it that way; but in no way was I saying that God did it that way, etc._ I meant that it could well have been done that way, negating the intelligent design hypothesis without negating God. > > > Via your logic, something would have to have created the creator. > >=20 > > So? So what's wrong with that??? > >=20 > > If you read the bible, there is a shift which sounds like a > > corporate takeover resulting in a change of management. > > ...and then something created that one, and the one before it, and the > one before it. So? So what! > > > The best analogy from science that I can come up with is the hierarchy > > > found in decidability. > >=20 > > But you can't be sure of any fixed, deterministic hierarchical > > system. We have not enough information. We are guessing, even in > > science. We are guessing a lot more carefully and better using science, > > but science can not, AND SHOULD NOT, claim it has definitive answers for > > everything. Or the corelary, that X is junk because it is not > > scientifically proven. That is the arrogance of science which many of > > us have to fight in the medical arena. I mean, just because science can > > not understand homeopathy, does not mean homeopathy does not work. > > It's just another tool. > > The question is what should be taught in science class, not whether or > not science has all of the answers. My assertion is that science > should be taught in science class. The reason being that the class > ostensibly covers science. I agree that science should be taught in science class. As should the methods of science. And contrasting something with something else is a valid way of teaching it. > Arguing that religion should be taught in science class is like > arguing that french should be taught in Spanish class. Both science But sometimes it is contrasted in French class. As it was on occasion in our French class. > and religion are ways of answering questions about the universe... > both french and Spanish are languages. That's the point. So some contrast isn't bad. > >=20 > > They can try. Just as long as they don't try to refute it with a > > bullet to my head, because that does not refute that I was. > > Nobody is sending storm troopers into churches forcing them to accept > evolution. All anybody is asking is that science classes be reserved I believe they have been trying the opposite for some time. > for science. It's politicians with police and prisons and guns that > are trying to force religious beliefs (that aren't shared by all > religions practiced in this country, mind you) into the classroom. Gee... The Scope's Monkey Trial all over again. Got news for you. It was the people who wanted it that way, NOT the government. > The real irony is that while we are forcing religion out of public > spaces, and telling kids not to pray in school, we're trying to force > a religious concept into a science class. Honestly, there are good > fights to be fought, this just isn't one of them. I think it is a good opportunity. I think creation science and intelligent design are so bogus they can not stand up to scrutiny. And I believe that kind of scrutiny is good for humanity to engage in. > > > > > Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; > > > > > blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." > > > > > > Nothing to say about this, eh? > > Does not trigger any thoughts. People believe things all the time. > > It's at the core of the argument. These people believe that sneaking > their religion into science makes it more credible. They can't just > believe it on faith, but that's all that God asked them to do, in > their own religion. If people want to be fools, should we pass laws to keep them from being fools? Or laws to keep us from looking??? > > I'll side with my father's belief. He is a devout agnostic. He > > does not know, and believes no one else does. Especially not the > > priests, who are beholden to an organization who's primary goal is > > survival, NOT our welfare, etc. > > An agnostic would not fight so hard to push this into a science class. How do you know? > > > > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! Duh= > > > > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have faith th= > > > > The Lord will provide!!!' > > > > > > Where. > >=20 > > I missed your point. You probably missed mine as well. > > My argument was that I would never argue that God follows my thought > process, or that I could understand his. I stated that the reason > that we say that "God works in mysterious ways," is because we do not > find acts of God to be predictable. Your statement was that, > somewhere in religion, it says that we should do just that. I then > asked where in religion it asked that we should do that. I was joking that the more we look, the more we find it is up to us; quite the contrast to what the priests would wish us to believe. > > > What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? > >=20 > > Just as long as there was discussion vs what we have found via > > geology, paleontology, etc. > > But why not just skip it? It's not relevant. Because the ultimate goal of teaching science, is teaching kids to think using good thought processes. > > > I'm really more interested in discussing the science issue than faith i= > ssues. > > I think part of the problem with both science and religion comes > > from the same core arrogance in saying X is junk if it isn't from our > > dogma. > > Absolutely not. Science is very open to new ideas and thoughts, all > that it asks is that you provide convincing evidence to back them. Tell that to all the scientists who had the real mad scientist experience of having their colleagues tell them their results could not be correct. > Indeed, at AAAI this year, I heard several speakers suggest that we > should do a 180 spin on the direction of research. That said, they > made arguments as to why they felt this way. So? So they are a more open bunch. > > Science has trouble with ESP, homeopathy, etc. Religion has trouble > > with paleontology. Yet all these things exist in the thoughts of the > > common man. And the common man makes decisions based upon what he > > knows, right or wrong. Science is a method more apply than religious > > similarity, etc. etc. as long ago. > > That's fine. Keep science in the science classroom is all I'm arguing > for. Also, there have been scientific experiments on ESP, homeopathic > medicines, and other concepts. Don't tihnk that must because these > sound "weird" that they haven't been explored scientifically, because > they have! Incidentally, what keeps us from exploring medical > marijuana isn't the scientific community, it's the government. Most of that "alternative" investigation stuff is not well received and the scientists are looked down upon. As to medical marijuana, yes, it is the government. But it also has a lot of unsavory connotations in common belief; connotations pushed by small groups using the government to amplify them. Not unusual... but not nice, either. > > So? So maybe we need to discuss issues before the frame breaks! > > Our beliefs are based upon the deeds of ... ??? Prophets? Saints? > > Humans? Saviors??? The precedence sometimes needs to be examined for > > implications. > > What I'm saying is that I generally leave pagan beliefs alone, because > I don't want to offend pagans. It does seems as thought everyone > feels free to chime in when it comes to christianity though. I never claimed to hate The One True God. I worship Athena simply because I like what She stands for. It's more like we believe in the same things. And whether she be Creator, Goddess, representative of those values, prophet elevated to Goddess status, or whatever, is irrelevant to me. It's like Hecate could offer me all the jewels in the world, and I would not be tempted to walk away from Athena because by discarding those values, I would be destroying a core part of my self. > > Comes back to our founding fathers (USA) and the unity of the > > states. > > The point being that we were discussing Intelligent Design vs > Darwinism, and, in particular, it's place in the science classroom, > not Lithuanian politics. But you keep saying it is a political move, thus contrasting politics are relevant. Our founding fathers used religion as the core of their argument to the right to become independent. They stood up for this belief, risking EVERYTHING including their own lives! And many did die because of this RELIGIOUS BASED belief! All we have derives from it. Including our schools. Including science classes. > > Perhaps I am making too many jokes, or am not eloquent enough. > > Debate, as a formality, is just that. The question is whether it grips > > the mind; not whether it meet formality. And different people respond > > to different things. > > You're fine, but you're deviating from core arguments, and backing > your statement which rhetorical devices. I merely wish that I had > taken the time the take a proper debate class out of intellectual > interest. I can disarm such arguments quite effectively, but it takes > more work without proper training. You are doing ok on your end. This is not a clear, single concept thing we are debating. > > No. That does not necessarily follow what I said about creating the > > laws of physics. This could well be a one shot experiment. Set up the > > initial conditions, and see what happens. When the universe dissipates > > or collapses, alter the parameters and try again. But we, would then not > > be iteratively designed within this universe; the universe would be an > > iteration of design. > > Your statement was that it would be boring to know exactly what would > happen next. What I am saying is that you can be all knowing without > being prescient. I think the problem with that is the language we use to phrase our arguments. Are you saying that knowing the implications does not include knowing the details? Or are you saying that knowing the infinite details does not have to be boring? I would add that it is likely that the mechanism of thought is imperfect recollection which resonates among possibilities, exploring what more reinforces which possibility. Thus, if God were all knowing, God could not think, could not evaluate, could not alter what is. And with that, God would not be a conscious entity. > You missed what I was saying. What I'm saying is, God may not be able > to become bored. That's all. I believe that prayer helps because I > am of the Lutheran faith. If experiments show that prayer helps, then > those results are scientific results, and are perfectly admissible in > whatever field they may be applicable to. That said, that proves > nothing regarding creationism. Agreed. > > My explanation involves ESP as an electromagnetic resonance > > phenomenon based on chemistry and wave shape. It kind of leads to a > > scientific view of a plausibility of a soul via a low bandwidth > > informational back channel among humans. Freud and Jung addressed this > > to some extent as a collective sub-couscous phenomenon. My theory does > > not violate known physics, and the encouragement effects of the back > > channel could explain some of the effects of prayer. > >=20 > > Someone else may call it God. > > Eh, ok. I still don't believe that creationism belongs in science class. I believe that thought belongs in science class. And heck yes, mystery and faith. Faith in humanity! Admission that we don't know everything; and more important, that there is still mystery out there to probe! > > > 1) I certainly don't think that several of the modern protestant > > > churches represent stronger organizations or better ideas. > >=20 > > Vs alternatives in paganism? More concentrated, I believe. Yet we > > see the Goddess mutate into The Virgin Mary. > > No, vs Catholicism. Neo-paganism, mind you, is only about 30 years > old, yet presents itself as an alternative to Catholicism as well, > though I doubt that the Pope would view neo-paganism as a more evolved > faith than Catholicism. Neo-paganism is, well, mostly newage (rhymes with sewage) crap attempting to offer fragmented alternatives to monolithic religion that seems to judge some as despicable outcasts. The outcasts then come up with their own religion, and if it hangs together, overtakes the original. The Catholic church is the more evolved at present. > > > 2) It's a stretch to argue that that is a scientific proof for evoluti= > on. > > Well, proof of some of the principles. Certainly enough to vex the > > Catholic Church! > > It wouldn't bother the Pope in the least, except for the assertion > that, somehow, the more radical Protestant faiths are superior to > Catholicism. "These principles apply not only to the evolution of The Church, but als so to the evolution of life itself." > > > 3) That still has nothing to do with teaching intelligent design. > >=20 > > The principles! > Nope. I guess we are not going to convince each other. Does this mean we are obstinate, we are not using good enough arguments, or that our ability to debate is not up to par with what is needed? Shall we continue practicing? Or call it a day? I for one, enjoy the thoughts that good debate turns up, sometimes far more than the debate itself. Hey, this beats answering a bunch of health questions in another forum. > > > 4) The pope has much stronger arguments regarding evolution to worry about=3D > > The closeness! Remember, G =3D Mass1 * Mass2 / distance. > > I could argue that my Z28 is far more fuel efficient at 120 MPH than > at 55 MPH (and it is), but the cop would still write me a ticket. Law is law. (And air resistance would likely negate your argument.) But open debate is not hindered by law in this case. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 10:43:06 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 10:43:10 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <20050811155037.55955.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 11, 2005 08:50:37 AM Message-ID: <20050811174307.29364.qmail@mall-net.com> > WHAT I MEAN IS THE POLITICS OF BOTH GOVT., AND THE > POLITICS OF RELIGION/S, EQUALLY. > > TOO MUCH ARGUEMENT GETS NOTHING ACCOMPLISHED > FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL THINGS, AS IT SEEMS THAT > WAY TO ME. Too little argument gets the wrong things done, ignoring the consequence till too late. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 12:05:54 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 12:06:00 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <20050811143237.79168.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 11, 2005 07:32:37 AM Message-ID: <20050811190555.70365.qmail@mall-net.com> > IF I CAN EVOLVE BEYOND THIS NEVERENDING SENSELESS HELL THAT HAS BEEN INDUCED INTO ME, AND FORCED UPON MY LIFE? Evolve takes a little longer. Perhaps extricate your present self. > CAN I BECOME SUPERHUMAN, AND OR ASSIMILATE MYSELF, LIKE THE BORG; TO BECOME A MAN-MACHINE??? Would you prefer to be a hard shelled turtle, or a soft skinned and sensuous human being? I'll take the human being! Soft skin may hurt, but it encourages learning. A turtle need not learn as much as a human, because a turtle can stand more than a human. But for that shell, it loses so much of the depth and breadth of existance! > CAN I MODIFY MY D.N.A. TO TRANSCEND THE PRESENT CURSE, OF THIS FLESH AND BLOOD AND BONES, EXISTANCE AND REALITY, THAT I AM FORCED TO HAVE TO PUT UP WITH, SINCE WE WERE ALL BORN THIS WAY??? Probably not; but who says it's your DNA? > BORN TO DIE; AND IN THE PROCESS/S OF LIVING, THE EXPERIENCES OF PAIN, SUFFERING, PLEASURE, AND EVEN SINFUL PLEASURE-IF THE LIVES THAT WE LEAD, LACK IN SELF RESTRAINT; LACK MORALISM. So? Most, even those without religion, are grateful; for their stay on this mortal planet. > PAIN SUFFERING AND MISERY HAVE BECOME SO STRONG IN MY LIFE NOW. Now. Not necessarily forever. Not even necessarily for long! > I WANT RELIEF. > I NEARLY DESPERATELY NEED RELIEF. Agreed. > THE CHIROPRACTOR INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE HAS BEEN OF THE MOST BENEFIT, ALONG WITH ADRENAL REDUCTION, WHEN ADRENAL REDUCTION AND THE TRACTION TABLE ARE AVAILABLE FOR USAGE; > PROBLEM IS, IS THAT THEY ARE NOT CONSTANT 24/7 STRESS RELIVERS. > I NEED 24/7 STRESS RELIEF. Understood. You need to work towards that. I am not sure how, but I have offered some things which may help. Your plight, by the way, is not unique. I've heard worse from some porphyria victims. > AN INTERESTING EXPERIMENT THAT I'D LIKE TO TRY: > > TO SEE IF AN ELECTROENCEPHALOGRAM CAN BE AUDIO AND RADIO FREQUENCY AMPLIFIED, AND TO MONITOR WHAT THE RESULTS WOULD BE, THROUGH BOTH THE AIRWAVES, AND OVER THE POWERLINES; B.P.L.(BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES). > COULD AN AMPLIFIED ELECTROENCEPHALOGRAM; (BRAINWAVE MONITOR), MODULATE THE 60 CYCLE E.M. FIELD, PRODUCED BY A FLOURESCENT LIGHT, TO TRANSMIT BRAINWAVE INFORMATION OVER THE POWERLINES??? I do not understand. Brainwaves range a spectrum from the sub-second to the kilohertz range. Powerlines are basically 60hz. Modulating them to brain wave frequencies would be inherently difficult to impossible. This would also cause much electrical equipment harm and disruption. Also, much filtering as well as the inherent qualities (attributes) of the power network, including resonances which the structure was built to accommodate, and the effects of the transformers in it, would tend to damp out much of that brain wave signal. What purpose would it serve? > HOPE THIS DOESN'T GIVE ANY BAD IDEAS FOR CERTAIN FOLKS OUT THERE, TO USE THIS TECHNOLOGY FOR CORRUPT INTRUSIVE INTENTIONS. > I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY THAT I NEED, TO EXPERIMENT WITH ALL OF THE TECHNOLOGY. It would be a waste of your money, I believe. Far more effective, would be monitoring your brain wave spectrum and seeing how you may adjust that to relieve tension. Anna Wise wrote of this in "The High Performance Mind". A book that you might find interesting. I attended a lecture by her, and bought the book, a relaxation tape of hers, etc. Intersting. Explains that I do engage in some meditative-like actions, though I'd hardily call them that. I just say I take a nap. She had some interesting equipment for brain wave spectral monitoring and feedback; which I didn't have the cash for. That, plus some other things, suggested the magnetic coil brainwave entrainment experiments. Hutchinson in "Mega Brain" (or some similar title) talks more about devices already on the market. I've tried some of those, but they just don't resonate at the right frequencies for my mind. Hence my own approach. And part of this was also my own problems with sleep, as in one period, I could not gain any benefit from sleep. I was walking around like a zombie during the day. At that point, I figured I would be insane in another few months, if I didn't kill myself before that. (I have a strong aversion to letting myself run amuck.) Brain wave entrainment helped a fair bit. But the ultimate was Melatonin (Cardiovascular Research or Arteria brand), a neurotransmitter involved in regulating sleep and body temperature cycles, which helped my body get something useful from laying down for a few hours. Took a few weeks before things stabilized; but all the sleep and mentation problems went away! I was HUMAN AGAIN!!! Melatonin is contraindicated if you have sleep apnea episodes. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 11 12:41:30 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Thu Aug 11 12:41:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion Message-ID: <00d101c59eac$ac830b80$6501a8c0@mikey> "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." (Albert Einstein, 1940) I like Javilk's argument that the Christian religion itself evolves. It reminds me of the argument I use on Southern Baptists. (Aside- for those unfamiliar with the Southern Baptists, they are fundamentalist Christians who viciously defend Creationism, the Literal Inerrancy of the Bible, and none would allow a drop of alcohol to cross their lips, at least in public. An old joke is that all liquor stores in the south have back doors, called "Baptist doors.") (Another old joke- Jews do not recognize Jesus, atheists don't recognize God, Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.) I begin by asking if the Bible is literally true, that all of the Earth and Heavens were created in six calendar days, and that the Earth was less than 6000 years old. The invariably say, "Of course." I then ask if the Bible, as translated, is word-for-word literal truth, without errors in translation over the millennia. The response is, "Of course, the writers and subsequent translators were inspired by God, and imbued with the Holy Spirit. It cannot be wrong." "So how do you explain fossils found dating tens or hundreds of thousands of years old?" "These are tests of Faith." Then I ask if imbibing alcohol is a sin. "YES! The Body is the Temple for the Holy Spirit! One must not defile it!" "So please explain to me why the first public miracle of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ- as recorded in the Bible, was to convert water into wine, an alcoholic beverage?" Checkmate. At this point, the "true believer" would beg leave, offering to pray for my eternal soul. If they remain, I inquire as to why Jesus kept a known prostitute, Mary Magdalene, as a close friend. ----- As a matter of historical fact, Man's Catholic Church has been in error many times. Witness the great scientist Galileo, who was threatened with torture and death unless he recanted his heresy of publishing the FACT that the Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth is the center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent the remainder of his life under arrest. And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witch than to weight the accused's body with stones, toss them into the river, and see if Satan saved them? But if they WERE saved, how did the inquisitors know it was not God that spared them? The same way that the "Creationists" *know* that evolution is wrong?!? GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashes or atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church decreed that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats, the rats, and their plague-carrying fleas, bred out of control. A third of all humanity died because of this religious degree. What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman Catholic Church? Economy of scale, and who writes the history books. This discussion over "intelligent design" and "evolution" is but a tempest in a teapot. Only the "True Believer," whose heart is hardened to Truth, and whose mind is closed and nailed shut, denies that God could use evolution as His/Hers/Its preferred method of creating life. And that Bible these people so freely cite has much to say about those whose hearts have been hardened to the Truth. Who among us knows so much as to second guess God, and state that evolution was NOT His/Her/Its chosen method? I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False prophets are rampant today, and they are the minions of Lucifer. IMHO, all those "True Believers" who advocate the dilution of science with specious religious beliefs are but false prophets, serving the Great Deceiver. My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. -MB From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 13:36:03 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 13:36:14 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <00d101c59eac$ac830b80$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <00d101c59eac$ac830b80$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: On 8/11/05, Michael Best wrote: > "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." > (Albert Einstein, 1940) Nice quote. > > I like Javilk's argument that the Christian religion it self evolves. It > reminds me of the argument I use on Southern Baptists. > > (Aside- for those unfamiliar with the Southern Baptists, they are > fundamentalist Christians who viciously defend Creationism, the Literal > Inerrancy of the Bible, and none would allow a drop of alcohol to cross > their lips, at least in public. An old joke is that all liquor stores in > the south have back doors, called "Baptist doors.") The Southern Baptist faith is much newer than Catholicism or Lutheranism. Also, the teatotaling bit wasn't part of their faith until Women's Christian Temperance. They adopted the policy to help recruit. With that in mind, you don't seem to hold the Southern Baptist Church in high regard, yet you state that it is a more evolved version of Catholicism. > (Another old joke- Jews do not recognize Jesus, atheists don't recognize > God, Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store.) > > I begin by asking if the Bible is literally true, that all of the Earth and > Heavens were created in six calendar days, and that the Earth was less than > 6000 years old. The invariably say, "Of course." > > I then ask if the Bible, as translated, is word-for-word literal truth, > without errors in translation over the millennia. > > The response is, "Of course, the writers and subsequent translators were > inspired by God, and imbued with the Holy Spirit. It cannot be wrong." > > "So how do you explain fossils found dating tens or hundreds of thousands of > years old?" > > "These are tests of Faith." > > Then I ask if imbibing alcohol is a sin. > > "YES! The Body is the Temple for the Holy Spirit! One must not defile it!" > > "So please explain to me why the first public miracle of Jesus of Nazareth, > the Christ- as recorded in the Bible, was to convert water into wine, an > alcoholic beverage?" Not true, the argument that they use is that fermentation processes were not developed, and that wine did not imply alcohol, but grape juice, much as they use at communion. > Checkmate. At this point, the "true believer" would beg leave, offering to > pray for my eternal soul. > > If they remain, I inquire as to why Jesus kept a known prostitute, Mary > Magdalene, as a close friend. Lutherans and Catholics accept the inevitability of sin, and that Jesus is forgiving of those sins. Luther said "sin boldly." To that degree it is not a core principal of the church that you are to make those who are sinful pariahs, because of the inescapability of your own sin. I am not sure what the Southern Baptist Church says about this, but I know a Southern Baptist minister who has preached to those who society would rather turn its back upon. Based on his acts, I would have to say that self-righteously looking down upon all around you is not a core value of that church, but rather of confused practitioners, who have not taken the time to understand their faith, or what it means to their lives. I could be wrong, however, never having been baptist. Lutherans and Catholics, however, observe confession. Also of note is that the faiths are much older. > ----- > > As a matter of historical fact, Man's Catholic Church has been in error many > times. Witness the great scientist Galileo, who was threatened with torture > and death unless he recanted his heresy of publishing the FACT that the > Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth is the > center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent the > remainder of his life under arrest. You're confusing politics with religio > And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witch than > to weight the accused's body with stones, toss them into the river, and see > if Satan saved them? But if they WERE saved, how did the inquisitors know > it was not God that spared them? The same way that the "Creationists" > *know* that evolution is wrong?!? In parts, all heretics were called "Lutherans," because on of the aims of the inquisition was to purge the church of Lutherans. > GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashes or > atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church decreed > that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats, the > rats, and their plague-carrying fleas, bred out of control. A third of all > humanity died because of this religious degree. Interesting. Please don't take it as questioning the veracity of that statement when I ask the source? I am interested in history, the way it really happened, rather than history, the lies we were taught, and am always looking for good sources (though, I keep busy with grad school). I'd love to get a copy of whatever book that is out of, if you have the title or author. > What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman Catholic > Church? Economy of scale, and who writes the history books. Rhetoric. > This discussion over "intelligent design" and "evolution" is but a tempest > in a teapot. Only the "True Believer," whose heart is hardened to Truth, > and whose mind is closed and nailed shut, denies that God could use > evolution as His/Hers/Its preferred method of creating life. And that Bible > these people so freely cite has much to say about those whose hearts have > been hardened to the Truth. To say that is to entirely miss the point. God could do whatever he likes. Intelligent Design is not a theory that is accepted by the academic community. Science class should be about science, not religion. One would think that, after taking such care to run down religion for the past several paragraphs, that you would end by siding with science. Instead, you run down religion, and then say "well, anything that's possible should be taught in science class. If that is the case, then I propose that we introduce kids to human competitive artificial intelligence in science class. At least that field has researchers. > Who among us knows so much as to second guess God, and state that evolution > was NOT His/Her/Its chosen method? Science is not about faith. You should put forth scientific theories in science classes. If you would like this to become science, pursue it as the end of your research. Certainly once you have built up a significant scientific theory, much as we do with physics and anything else, your material will be considered as part of the body of scientific literature, and taught in grade school. > I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False prophets > are rampant today, and they are the minions of Lucifer. IMHO, all those > "True Believers" who advocate the dilution of science with specious > religious beliefs are but false prophets, serving the Great Deceiver. Ok, so, are you saying that we should, or should not teach Intelligent Design in grade school? > My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. > -MB > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 13:37:22 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 13:37:28 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <20050811153721.66946.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050811153721.66946.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: On 8/11/05, javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > > > > > I can think of few things less intelligent than politics and organized > > > religion. > > > > Eh, I disagree. Lots of people blame on religion, what squarely > > belongs blamed on politics. > > Do you mean the politics of religion, or the politics of > government? Government. Take WWII as an example. Justin > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 14:24:52 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 14:25:01 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 04:36:03 PM Message-ID: <20050811212452.46246.qmail@mall-net.com> Laughing! > On 8/11/05, Michael Best wrote: > > "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." > > (Albert Einstein, 1940) > >=20 > > "YES! The Body is the Temple for the Holy Spirit! One must not defile it!" > > "So please explain to me why the first public miracle of Jesus of Nazaret= > h, > > the Christ- as recorded in the Bible, was to convert water into wine, an > > alcoholic beverage?" > > Not true, the argument that they use is that fermentation processes > were not developed, and that wine did not imply alcohol, but grape > juice, much as they use at communion. Ha Ha Ha! Fermentation is far older than Christ! It is one of the ways they stored the nutrients of grain for later consumption. Long before Christ was born, there was a lady ruler of the Mesopotamia / Babilonia area who had been a beer hall owner. > > As a matter of historical fact, Man's Catholic Church has been in error m= > any > > times. Witness the great scientist Galileo, who was threatened with tort= > ure > > and death unless he recanted his heresy of publishing the FACT that the > > Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth is t= > he > > center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent the > > remainder of his life under arrest. > > You're confusing politics with religio No, the church used politics as a way of controlling the people and promulgating religion. Hence the dark ages when all knowledge had to be told in terms of the christ experience. > > And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witch th= Not just the inquisition in Spain, but all over. Estimates of death vary form 1 million to 8 million, mostly women. In some towns, not one woman was left alive. Some text say this was over women's spirituality, others say it was over rising "drug use" (broom dosed with a drug inducing circulatory reduction, producing a feeling of flying, depersonalization, etc. which could sometimes cause brain death or literal death.) and/or various fungi, particularly ergot, in grains causing aberrant behaviors. Much controversy as to the cause. But particularly women, because women are capable of far greater sensuality than men are; and tend to band together far more easily than men. So there is also much envy on the part of men. Psycho-sexual politics, picked up by the church and used for the purpose of control. > > GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashes or > > atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church decreed > > that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats, the > > rats, and their plague-carrying fleas, bred out of control. A third of > > all humanity died because of this religious degree. > > Interesting. Please don't take it as questioning the veracity of that > statement when I ask the source? I am interested in history, the way > it really happened, rather than history, the lies we were taught, and > am always looking for good sources (though, I keep busy with grad > school). I'd love to get a copy of whatever book that is out of, if > you have the title or author. I too, have heard this from several sources. > > What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman Catholic > > Church? Economy of scale, and who writes the history books. > > Rhetoric. No. There is valid comparison. Jones took his own life. In the burning times, the church did not. > > This discussion over "intelligent design" and "evolution" is but a tempes= > t > > in a teapot. Only the "True Believer," whose heart is hardened to Truth, > > and whose mind is closed and nailed shut, denies that God could use > > evolution as His/Hers/Its preferred method of creating life. And that Bi= > ble > > these people so freely cite has much to say about those whose hearts have > > been hardened to the Truth. > > To say that is to entirely miss the point. God could do whatever he > likes. Intelligent Design is not a theory that is accepted by the > academic community. Science class should be about science, not And the bleeding christians are stupid enough to bring it into examination? Fine! Let's examine it for what it is!!! An d teach the need to THINK while we are at it! > If that is the case, then I propose that we introduce kids to human > competitive artificial intelligence in science class. At least that > field has researchers. That would soon teach them futility. We need to teach them faith and hope in humanity, and how they in turn must pass that on and help fulfill it. Some darned good lessons in the bible, regardless of the majority of illustrations of ignorant behavior. > > Who among us knows so much as to second guess God, and state that evoluti= > on > > was NOT His/Her/Its chosen method? > > Science is not about faith. You should put forth scientific theories > in science classes. If you would like this to become science, pursue > it as the end of your research. Certainly once you have built up a > significant scientific theory, much as we do with physics and anything > else, your material will be considered as part of the body of > scientific literature, and taught in grade school. Pure science was served in Auschwitz and related places; Japan too! (Lot of frostbite research, freezing limbs of prisoners, trying to thaw the limbs, sometimes with a little success, sometimes research on the subsequent gangarine, other times just amputation of the limb, and more research on the victim till most victims were dead. Some US prisoners used there and on bio-weapons research.) Good research! Real results helping save other's lives. Without faith in humanity, such research techniques will be repeated. > > I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False proph= The end times will come when we either develop overly deadly weapons (e.g. bacterial, nano, etc.) or when the sun warms too much. > Ok, so, are you saying that we should, or should not teach Intelligent > Design in grade school? > > > My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. I like Einstein's quote. It should be promoted more than his more famous formula. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 14:48:50 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Thu Aug 11 14:48:56 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc. In-Reply-To: <20050811190555.70365.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050811214850.9172.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> And part of this was also my own problems with sleep, as in one period, I could not gain any benefit from sleep. I was walking around like a zombie during the day. A zombie is how I feel like, right now. At that point, I figured I would be insane in another few months, if I didn't kill myself before that. Right now, I feel insane; Feeling the blood pressure in my cranium expanding and contracting doesn't feel good at all. And I have heart trouble now, due to all of the fucking god damned drugs of the past and present. (I have a strong aversion to letting myself run amuck.) Brain wave entrainment helped a fair bit. But the ultimate was Melatonin (Cardiovascular Research or Arteria brand) Cardiovascular research; What do you mean by the words in parenthesis, above? , a neurotransmitter involved in regulating sleep and body temperature cycles, which helped my body get something useful from laying down for a few hours. Took a few weeks before things stabilized; but all the sleep and mentation problems went away! I took Meletonin for a while, until it started effecting my heart negatively. I was HUMAN AGAIN!!! Melatonin is contraindicated if you have sleep apnea episodes. I think I am having sleep apnea episodes from all of the damned drugs that i have been prescribed. Right now, Clonazepam is making me feel like a zombie, combined with the effects produced by past drugs. I don't feel well right now. I need 100% neural detox, A.S.A.P. Clyde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050811/d2cefc82/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 14:57:43 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Thu Aug 11 14:57:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] My brain..... Message-ID: <20050811215743.15707.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> It feels as though my brain is starving for oxygen right now. It feels like I am at the edge of passing out, here at the libary computer. Clonazepam is good for a while, but it is highly addicitve; its effects do not last, and there is always hell to pay after its effetcs have worn off Clyde --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. Learn more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050811/c18fbf8d/attachment.html From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 15:02:16 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 15:02:29 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050811173635.26474.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050811173635.26474.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > Science is about facts and methods of thought. History does not > teach methods of thought, and the teachers are totally unqualified to do > so. This also has to do with the place of science in society. Science is about science, and should be taken directly from the body of scientific literature, and not poisoned with anybodies political agenda. > > I work very much inside the system. There is plenty of debate in > > here. That said, I back my statements only with science, not with > > conjecture or theology or anything else. Believe me, there is plenty > > of mad science to go around without compromising either rigour or > > integrity. > > Fine! I'm glad you approve :-) > > Your fun is fine, but I don't even need to build an argument against > > them. If I've identified it as a tactic, rather than an argument, I > > can counter the tactic by identifying it and exposing it, and asking > > you to return back to core arguments. It's a valid tactic. > > I do not contest the validity of your tactics. Nor do I contest the validity of yours, but disarming them is fair game. > > I would feel very awkward in submitting a paper to a journal where my > > core argument involved mythology. > > I am not asking you to do so. But so what? But on another level, > are not the discovery of fossils, or geo-nuclear heat, etc. all > disprovals of creation myths? We've had these debates and mentions in > journals and books before. We generally don't teach disproved theories as part of science classes. If we did, we would teach that the earth is flat, and go into great depths describing astrology. > > > An opportunity to apply the scientific method and contrast it to > > > other methods. > > > > The purpose of introducing Intelligent Design is to have a scientific > > theory that doesn't disagree with creation myths, not to present > > religion as an alternative method, that will not be explored as a part > > of the class. > > (Chuckle,) A theory which can not stand up to science! And so, the > contrast of what we find through one method vs another. > > What are you afraid of? That Science is so weak it can not stand up > to religion? That it is so jealous and fragile, that it can not accept a > faith in a God, which may have created the Universe? No fear whatsoever on that front, but don't you think that it is up to the scientific community to decide what is science, rather than some board of education? You're missing the entire point. I don't mind discussing Intelligent Design in a scientific forum, what bothers me is inserting material that does not come from the scientific community into the science classroom. In other words, if you want to submit a paper to a conference, that discusses Intelligent Design, and try to rock the scientific community with it, by all means, go ahead. High school science classes have little to do with the proper routes by which to submit such theories. The very fact that this discussion begins at "this is what we should teach our children," rather than "I have this great theory that I'm submitting to Nature," is proof that it is a political tool, and has nothing to do with science. > Science, through open debate in the press, has decimated religion! > Let the debate continue! Let it get more explicit on methods of > thought, etc. > > Bush asked to let the kids hear both sides of the story and make up > their own minds. Bush asked that material that does not come from the scientific community be introduced in the science classes. If he was interested in influencing science, he would have studied biology and written a paper introducing Intelligent Design. > > > > What is Bush's PhD in again? > > >=20 > > > Oil, only it don't pile that high because it is somewhat less > > > viscous than, say, sand. > > > > So, that makes him a qualified authority on science because? > > He is not an authority on science. That's not his job. His job is > to uphold the Constitution of the United States, and to help organize > and run this country. Part of that allows him to make suggestions as to > education, suggestions people can and will debate. It certainly does. I'm taking the side of this debate that says that teaching Intelligent Design, until it has withstood the rigours that any other scientific theory must, is silly. I also think that Bush is just trying to boost his approval rating, which is in the toilet. > > > > It's not going to get kids thinking about what they should be thinking > > > > about in the science class. They should be thinking about science. > > >=20 > > > About the USE of and the Methods of Science as contrasted with > > > other methods. > > > > I commented that I do not feel that this is the purpose of the > > legislation above. > > What legislation? Bush proposed legislation? He did not. He made a > suggestion. He made a suggestion with hopes that it would get enacted into law, otherwise, nobody would care in the least. So, lets say that we get rid of the word, legislation, and substitute in "proposal." The purpose of the "proposal" is to circumvent the scientific community and teach whatever we like, calling it science. Better? We'll teach that right along all of the propaganda that I was taught as a kid, instead of actually trying to improve the school system. > > > Remember, Feynman said science is the belief in the ignorance of > > > experts. We can just as well apply that to the clerical experts as to > > > the scientific experts. > > > > That's fine, but a science class should be about what is currently > > believed by science. > > Really? I did a report on UFOs. Currently believed by science? > Nooo... and that was the essence of my report. But I said that there > was something unknown at the core of some of these things which we must > admit and should keep investigating. Today, I would be more eloquent > about the arrogance of science when it trashes something out of hand > without looking at it to see what it is or isn't. Our mad science > experience again. Trashing of things like Homeopathy and plate > tectonics, of innumerable things which have evidence of working, but the > mechanisms are not known. In the case of plate tectonics, the evidence > overwhelmed the objections. In the case of homeopathy, the hundreds of > years of evidence of it working is still dismissed because the > mechanisms are not yet understood. > > If something works, it works. Look at the statistics, then look FOR > mechanisms rather than trying to destroy it just because you are > ignorant. (But of course, with pharmacology funding the research, > everyone seems to want to destroy it without learning anything that > might threaten pharmacology.) People study homeopathic medicines. People studied plate tectonics. Sorry your paper got rejected, I guess. It happens. It's not like no effort is being made to contact aliens. We have SETI. > Project Bluebook was intersting. It dismissed 99+% of the UFO > observations as misunderstandings by people of human or natural > phenomenon. But it did say there were a very small number of > observations which really could not be explained away. They admitted > there was something they did not know, and should keep investigating. OK. Sorry that your field hasn't generated the level of interest that you would like for it to have. One of the things about science is, if nobody is interested in your field, it remains a small field. Still, I bet that you wouldn't have a lot of competition for a faculty position in a Ufology department. Taken from a farther away stance though. I would shy away from attempting to prove any theory by stating that the government is hiding the truth from us. An atomic bomb can be understood fully without leaning on the crutch of "If only we had the data from the Manhattan Project, then we would know what is going on!" Point your telescope at the sky, and figure it out for yourself, irrefutably. > Admission we don't know is the opposite of the arrogance we so often > find in science as an institution. (Though no doubt some who thought > they saw alien somethings may have thought it arrogant that their > beliefs were trashed by mere facts and non-believers.) How does attacking science as a whole (which freely admits that we don't know everything), at all supporting the point that creationism should be taught in public schools as if it were science? > > > > > Now the majority of the US population are scientists? > > >=20 > > > Well, you know... compared to the 1500's, maybe so. Compared with > > > today's university grad student in a science lab, maybe no. It's all > > > relative. But this society has taught a high percentage of us to think > > > a heck of a lot more clearly than but bulk of humanity has ever thought! > > > > Sure, but the scientific community determines what constitutes science. > > Excuse me? This is a democracy, not a dictatorship. Words are > defined by usage, not the dictates of authorities. I can call my car an airplane, but that won't make it fly. > Yes,. this is particularly hard for science, which is a kind of > private club of folks who approve or disapprove publications in peer > reviewed journals. But it is the lay public which interprets the > meanings of words. And bends them constantly. Especially when > advertisers-without-a-clue encourage them to do so! Are you arguing that the masses should determine what qualifies as science or not. I really don't care whether or not? I'm all for the masses becoming involved in science, as is the scientific community at large. We would absolutely love it if everyone were interested in science. Accusing the community of shutting out the public doesn't make it true. I was attending lectures at Jefferson Lab when I was 12 (special lectures that tried to get the public involved... they were aimed at high school and college, but really were simple enough for a kid to understand), and they were thrilled to have anybody who would attend there. At one point, those lectures were so popular, that the lecture hall filled, and latecomers would stand in the lobby (mind you, the lobby of a particle accelerator), and watch the lectures on monitors. This doesn't sound like a group who is trying to prevent the public from getting in. That said, not all theories will be accepted, because we're not all going to believe every theory. If you have a problem with people wanting credentials, well, get credentials. I'm getting them. > > Plenty do, or Intelligent Design would stand on trivial proof, and > > would already be taught in the classroom. > > But in some parts of the country, I believe it is -- without the > teaching of Darwin's Theory. That doesn't make it science. > > > > How does that enter into Intelligent Design. Also, here's a > > > > conundrum. If something created the universe, what created that > > > > thing? > > >=20 > > > Gee, isn't that where faith comes in? > > > > Faith, not science. > > You asked the question. What's wrong with faith that something > created the universe? Why must we use science to say God does not > exist? What's that about being unable to prove a negative conjecture? > Science can not, and should not, be used to destroy faith. Science > can, and should, examine the handiwork of God (or whatever) to see how > it works. That's not being unfaithful, it's being curious. And if we > do refute the dogmatic conjectures of some religious mullahs, well, maybe > they ought to go and mull their conjectures over some more. If the discussion is whether or not Intelligent Design should be taught in a science class, then you have proven my point. You've said just what I needed you to say. The reason that you want Intelligent Design taught as science, is because you are afraid that it not being accepted as science is a challenge to your faith. I'm Christian, I believe in God, I just don't believe that that has anything to do with science. See the quote a couple posts back where Jesus said that that's fine. > > > > Science and Religion come from the same root of curiosity. And > > > today, I think most of us place more faith in science than religion; but > > > not either or. > > > > Nope, I believe that my faith comes from acts of God. I don't believe > > that man made up my religion. The only reason that I follow my > > religion is because I truly believe it, not because I need it to > > explain anything. > > So if I use science to show that someone told a fib... to demolish > this or that belief, you get offended -- Like the myth of the Virgin > Mary. Either Christ was a spontaneous cloning, which does happen, > though very, very rarely in humans, and thus female; or somebody fooled > around just a little with either facts or something else. And later > acquired status by the accretion of pagan Goddess beliefs which could not > be conveniently stamped out. What? All that I said is that I believe my faith because I believe that it is true. I wouldn't be offended at all if you did that, nor would most of the scientific community. In fact, the reason that I argue that Intelligent Design needs to stay out of science classrooms is because it has not stood up to the rigours hat I hold science to. > You don't like science doing that, do you? Doesn't bother me at all. You're the one who wants to push science into the classroom. > I believe religion and science owe the people the truth. And that > there is plenty to be reverent about as one peels the layers off the > onion to see what really happened, and the hows and why's of its > influence upon us today. That's fine, like I said, I believe in my faith because I believe that it is the truth. If science disproves it, then I'll probably re-evaluate my faith. I won't be offended at all. You may, in fact, go about your experiments to disprove creationism, I guess. You're the one who wants religion taught as if it were science, not me. > > > That is also a back door into arguing which way of life is better > > > for us, that which is happening in the hills of Afghanistan, or here in > > > the USA and England? > > > > Part of the reason that it is better is because we don't push religion > > into politics. Look at churches that are highly politicized. That > > has nothing to do with religious enlightenment. > > Ooooh Yeesss!!! But so is almost all religion! Look at the > debates in Catholicism. I'm becoming frustrated. Whenever you reach an impasse where you know that you can't debate my point (frequent), you just pretend that I said something else. > > > > I would argue that to attempt to understand God in that way is futile. > > >=20 > > > God really can not be understood. > > >=20 > > > But the attempt is not futile! The attempt brings us back to > > > looking at the world in more detail, asking questions, THINKING! > > > Methods! What works better! > > > > Sure, but your argument was that if you were God, you would have > > formed the world via an iterative process. I do not presume to > > understand how God works, and therefore don't presume that he would > > follow the process that I would. > > When did I say what I would have done? I said it could have been > done. (Got to check my language. I might have said it that way; but in > no way was I saying that God did it that way, etc._ I meant that it > could well have been done that way, negating the intelligent design > hypothesis without negating God. By asserting that you would have done something one way, thereby asserting that God may have done it that way, then using that to prop up your argument, you leave the whole matter on very shaky footing. > > > > Via your logic, something would have to have created the creator. > > >=20 > > > So? So what's wrong with that??? > > >=20 > > > If you read the bible, there is a shift which sounds like a > > > corporate takeover resulting in a change of management. > > > > ...and then something created that one, and the one before it, and the > > one before it. > > So? So what! Well, as long as we agree on that point. > > > > The best analogy from science that I can come up with is the hierarchy > > > > found in decidability. > > >=20 > > > But you can't be sure of any fixed, deterministic hierarchical > > > system. We have not enough information. We are guessing, even in > > > science. We are guessing a lot more carefully and better using science, > > > but science can not, AND SHOULD NOT, claim it has definitive answers for > > > everything. Or the corelary, that X is junk because it is not > > > scientifically proven. That is the arrogance of science which many of > > > us have to fight in the medical arena. I mean, just because science can > > > not understand homeopathy, does not mean homeopathy does not work. > > > It's just another tool. > > > > The question is what should be taught in science class, not whether or > > not science has all of the answers. My assertion is that science > > should be taught in science class. The reason being that the class > > ostensibly covers science. > > I agree that science should be taught in science class. As should > the methods of science. And contrasting something with something else > is a valid way of teaching it. That isn't the point of this nonsense, and I would appreciate if you stopped pretending that it was. Bush wants Intelligent Design taught as if it were science, not to be something that we contrast against to make science more credible. Really, arguing that that is the point of all of this is like watching a guy with a bong taped to his mouth argue that he favors medical marijuana. Say what you mean, don't argue some tangential point to me, when really you mean something else. Your failure to defend your point on its own merits betrays that you feel that it has no merit. > > Arguing that religion should be taught in science class is like > > arguing that french should be taught in Spanish class. Both science > > But sometimes it is contrasted in French class. As it was on > occasion in our French class. I took a lot of French, and never spoke Spanish in French class at all. > > and religion are ways of answering questions about the universe... > > both french and Spanish are languages. > > That's the point. So some contrast isn't bad. > That's not the point. Proponents of this view really want their religion taught as if it were science. They know that they can't defend that view, so they form this side argument. > > > They can try. Just as long as they don't try to refute it with a > > > bullet to my head, because that does not refute that I was. > > > > Nobody is sending storm troopers into churches forcing them to accept > > evolution. All anybody is asking is that science classes be reserved > > I believe they have been trying the opposite for some time. So, you mean that you believe that the government has been trying to force religion on the people for some time? So, why is your point of view that they should continue this trend? > > for science. It's politicians with police and prisons and guns that > > are trying to force religious beliefs (that aren't shared by all > > religions practiced in this country, mind you) into the classroom. > > Gee... The Scope's Monkey Trial all over again. Got news for you. > It was the people who wanted it that way, NOT the government. Ok. The people can want whatever they like, that doesn't make it science. Also, I am one of the people, so, should my point of view (the correct one, mind you, by your own argument) be silenced because I fail to agree with the masses. I'm not silencing anybody, I'm just stating my point of view. > > The real irony is that while we are forcing religion out of public > > spaces, and telling kids not to pray in school, we're trying to force > > a religious concept into a science class. Honestly, there are good > > fights to be fought, this just isn't one of them. > > I think it is a good opportunity. I think creation science and > intelligent design are so bogus they can not stand up to scrutiny. And > I believe that kind of scrutiny is good for humanity to engage in. Ok, we don't debate scientific theories in high school science classes, the scientific community does that, and then we teach what we believe to be accurate in schools. > > > > > > Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; > > > > > > blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." > > > > > > > > Nothing to say about this, eh? > > > > Does not trigger any thoughts. People believe things all the time. > > > > It's at the core of the argument. These people believe that sneaking > > their religion into science makes it more credible. They can't just > > believe it on faith, but that's all that God asked them to do, in > > their own religion. > > If people want to be fools, should we pass laws to keep them from > being fools? Or laws to keep us from looking??? What? High school science classes have nothing to do with scientific research. If you want to research Intelligent Design and disprove it, well, go right ahead. The scientific community at large has already rejected it as pseudoscience, and doesn't want it taught because they don't feel that it is science. > > > I'll side with my father's belief. He is a devout agnostic. He > > > does not know, and believes no one else does. Especially not the > > > priests, who are beholden to an organization who's primary goal is > > > survival, NOT our welfare, etc. > > > > An agnostic would not fight so hard to push this into a science class. > > How do you know? An agnostic questions the existence of God, why would an agnostic, then, want so badly to teach Christianity, as if it were science, in a science class? > > > > > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! Duh= > > > > > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have faith th= > > > > > The Lord will provide!!!' > > > > > > > > Where. > > >=20 > > > I missed your point. You probably missed mine as well. > > > > My argument was that I would never argue that God follows my thought > > process, or that I could understand his. I stated that the reason > > that we say that "God works in mysterious ways," is because we do not > > find acts of God to be predictable. Your statement was that, > > somewhere in religion, it says that we should do just that. I then > > asked where in religion it asked that we should do that. > > I was joking that the more we look, the more we find it is up to us; > quite the contrast to what the priests would wish us to believe. So, what you're saying is, you couldn't refute my argument, so you made a joke and hoped it would go away. > > > > What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? > > >=20 > > > Just as long as there was discussion vs what we have found via > > > geology, paleontology, etc. > > > > But why not just skip it? It's not relevant. > > Because the ultimate goal of teaching science, is teaching kids to > think using good thought processes. So, you want to teach kids that it's a good thought process to accept pseudoscience as if it were science. > > > > I'm really more interested in discussing the science issue than faith i= > > ssues. > > > > I think part of the problem with both science and religion comes > > > from the same core arrogance in saying X is junk if it isn't from our > > > dogma. > > > > Absolutely not. Science is very open to new ideas and thoughts, all > > that it asks is that you provide convincing evidence to back them. > > Tell that to all the scientists who had the real mad scientist > experience of having their colleagues tell them their results could not > be correct. Ok, you can hate science if you like. I won't stop you, nor will I take the time to try to convince you otherwise. I've already wasted a couple hours of my time (which I should be spending on research) exploring your psyche. > > Indeed, at AAAI this year, I heard several speakers suggest that we > > should do a 180 spin on the direction of research. That said, they > > made arguments as to why they felt this way. > > So? So they are a more open bunch. Ok. Well, you've been running down science as being unaccepting of new ideas. Now, I'm telling you that a very reputable scientific body has been accepting of new ideas. Your reply is that they, a large body of scientists, are more accepting of new ideas than, what other than scientists are. > > > Science has trouble with ESP, homeopathy, etc. Religion has trouble > > > with paleontology. Yet all these things exist in the thoughts of the > > > common man. And the common man makes decisions based upon what he > > > knows, right or wrong. Science is a method more apply than religious > > > similarity, etc. etc. as long ago. > > > > That's fine. Keep science in the science classroom is all I'm arguing > > for. Also, there have been scientific experiments on ESP, homeopathic > > medicines, and other concepts. Don't tihnk that must because these > > sound "weird" that they haven't been explored scientifically, because > > they have! Incidentally, what keeps us from exploring medical > > marijuana isn't the scientific community, it's the government. > > Most of that "alternative" investigation stuff is not well received > and the scientists are looked down upon. Plenty of big universities fund this stuff. If people don't buy it, you're going to condemn them for it? > As to medical marijuana, yes, it is the government. But it also has > a lot of unsavory connotations in common belief; connotations pushed by > small groups using the government to amplify them. Not unusual... but > not nice, either. Kind of like this whole Intelligent Design bit, isn't it? > > > So? So maybe we need to discuss issues before the frame breaks! > > > Our beliefs are based upon the deeds of ... ??? Prophets? Saints? > > > Humans? Saviors??? The precedence sometimes needs to be examined for > > > implications. > > > > What I'm saying is that I generally leave pagan beliefs alone, because > > I don't want to offend pagans. It does seems as thought everyone > > feels free to chime in when it comes to christianity though. > > I never claimed to hate The One True God. I worship Athena simply > because I like what She stands for. It's more like we believe in the > same things. And whether she be Creator, Goddess, representative of > those values, prophet elevated to Goddess status, or whatever, is > irrelevant to me. It's like Hecate could offer me all the jewels in the > world, and I would not be tempted to walk away from Athena because by > discarding those values, I would be destroying a core part of my self. I didn't say that at all. What I'm saying is, people will say "oh, well, I just couldn't buy into Christianity," and then I'll say why I can't buy wicca. They then proceed to get offended. What can I say? I don't care what your faith is, but if you're going to question the validity of my savoir being killed for my sins, then I feel quite at liberty to question your belief that Zeus came in the form of a goat to have sex with a human and breed a superwarrior. > > > Comes back to our founding fathers (USA) and the unity of the > > > states. > > > > The point being that we were discussing Intelligent Design vs > > Darwinism, and, in particular, it's place in the science classroom, > > not Lithuanian politics. > > But you keep saying it is a political move, thus contrasting > politics are relevant. You're not contrasting this at all, you're trying to drag the conversation away from a point that you can't defend. > Our founding fathers used religion as the core of their argument to > the right to become independent. They stood up for this belief, risking > EVERYTHING including their own lives! And many did die because of this > RELIGIOUS BASED belief! Actually, they didn't like being taxed. > All we have derives from it. Including our schools. Including > science classes. See above, it was taxes. > > > Perhaps I am making too many jokes, or am not eloquent enough. > > > Debate, as a formality, is just that. The question is whether it grips > > > the mind; not whether it meet formality. And different people respond > > > to different things. > > > > You're fine, but you're deviating from core arguments, and backing > > your statement which rhetorical devices. I merely wish that I had > > taken the time the take a proper debate class out of intellectual > > interest. I can disarm such arguments quite effectively, but it takes > > more work without proper training. > > You are doing ok on your end. This is not a clear, single concept > thing we are debating. Nope, one concept, I keep trying to drag you back to it, because every time that you see that you can't defend it, you jump on to something else. > > > No. That does not necessarily follow what I said about creating the > > > laws of physics. This could well be a one shot experiment. Set up the > > > initial conditions, and see what happens. When the universe dissipates > > > or collapses, alter the parameters and try again. But we, would then not > > > be iteratively designed within this universe; the universe would be an > > > iteration of design. > > > > Your statement was that it would be boring to know exactly what would > > happen next. What I am saying is that you can be all knowing without > > being prescient. > > I think the problem with that is the language we use to phrase our > arguments. Not at all. > Are you saying that knowing the implications does not include > knowing the details? Not at all. Omniscient: All knowing, you know everything about everything. Prescient: Able to predict the future. I know quite a bit about artificial intelligence. While I could place a guess as to where the next 10 years will lead AI, I don't know for sure what the next 10 years bring. Get it? If I knew everything about AI, I still wouldn't be able to accurately predict the future of the field. > Or are you saying that knowing the infinite details does not have > to be boring? While the Greeks really liked to personify their Gods, I don't think that an omnipotent being (Athena wasn't omnipotent), would be subject to becoming bored. If they really were omnipotent, they could change reality to make themselves not bored. > I would add that it is likely that the mechanism of thought is > imperfect recollection which resonates among possibilities, exploring > what more reinforces which possibility. > > Thus, if God were all knowing, God could not think, could not > evaluate, could not alter what is. And with that, God would not be a > conscious entity. I don't really care to argue theology. I want to discuss whether or not religion belongs being taught as science. The answer is no. > > You missed what I was saying. What I'm saying is, God may not be able > > to become bored. That's all. I believe that prayer helps because I > > am of the Lutheran faith. If experiments show that prayer helps, then > > those results are scientific results, and are perfectly admissible in > > whatever field they may be applicable to. That said, that proves > > nothing regarding creationism. > > Agreed. > > > > My explanation involves ESP as an electromagnetic resonance > > > phenomenon based on chemistry and wave shape. It kind of leads to a > > > scientific view of a plausibility of a soul via a low bandwidth > > > informational back channel among humans. Freud and Jung addressed this > > > to some extent as a collective sub-couscous phenomenon. My theory does > > > not violate known physics, and the encouragement effects of the back > > > channel could explain some of the effects of prayer. > > >=20 > > > Someone else may call it God. > > > > Eh, ok. I still don't believe that creationism belongs in science class. > > I believe that thought belongs in science class. And heck yes, > mystery and faith. Faith in humanity! Admission that we don't know > everything; and more important, that there is still mystery out there to > probe! Science belongs in science class. > > > > 1) I certainly don't think that several of the modern protestant > > > > churches represent stronger organizations or better ideas. > > >=20 > > > Vs alternatives in paganism? More concentrated, I believe. Yet we > > > see the Goddess mutate into The Virgin Mary. > > > > No, vs Catholicism. Neo-paganism, mind you, is only about 30 years > > old, yet presents itself as an alternative to Catholicism as well, > > though I doubt that the Pope would view neo-paganism as a more evolved > > faith than Catholicism. > > Neo-paganism is, well, mostly newage (rhymes with sewage) crap > attempting to offer fragmented alternatives to monolithic religion that > seems to judge some as despicable outcasts. The outcasts then come up > with their own religion, and if it hangs together, overtakes the > original. > > The Catholic church is the more evolved at present. That's not how evolution works though. Evolution involves killing off old stuff to make way for better new stuff. > > > > 2) It's a stretch to argue that that is a scientific proof for evoluti= > > on. > > > > Well, proof of some of the principles. Certainly enough to vex the > > > Catholic Church! > > > > It wouldn't bother the Pope in the least, except for the assertion > > that, somehow, the more radical Protestant faiths are superior to > > Catholicism. > > "These principles apply not only to the evolution of The Church, > but als so to the evolution of life itself." The problem with that argument is that it isn't a terribly valid one. > > > > 3) That still has nothing to do with teaching intelligent design. > > >=20 > > > The principles! > > Nope. > > I guess we are not going to convince each other. Does this mean we > are obstinate, we are not using good enough arguments, or that our > ability to debate is not up to par with what is needed? > > Shall we continue practicing? Or call it a day? > > I for one, enjoy the thoughts that good debate turns up, sometimes > far more than the debate itself. Hey, this beats answering a bunch of > health questions in another forum. Oh, it's fun and all, but it really is eating up quite a bit of time. I have research to be completing. > > > > 4) The pope has much stronger arguments regarding evolution to worry about=3D > > > The closeness! Remember, G =3D Mass1 * Mass2 / distance. > > > > I could argue that my Z28 is far more fuel efficient at 120 MPH than > > at 55 MPH (and it is), but the cop would still write me a ticket. > > Law is law. (And air resistance would likely negate your argument.) > But open debate is not hindered by law in this case. Not at all. The Z28 is more efficient at those speeds. I'm not a physicist, so I'll avoid discussing the details, as I risk making a mistake and sounding foolish, but I get signifcantly better fuel economy at those speeds. At any rate. I have found your argument difficult to follow. Here's what you've said. 1) You think that Intelligent Design should be taught in public schools. 2) You think that the scientific community is afraid of this, because it their theories could not stand up against Intelligent Design. 3) You think that Intelligent Design is accurate, and that Science can't disprove it. 4) You think that Intelligent Design is inaccurate, and that science should be used to dismantle it. 5) You think that Intelligent Design should be used to contrast real science against. 6) You think that scientists are afraid to discuss Intelligent Design 7) You think that scientists are unaccepting of Intelligent Design A recurring thread in your argument is that you feel that a high school science class is a place to debate scientific theories that have not yet even been debated or accepted by the scientific community. Central to what I am trying to convey to you, is the the scientific community has places for open debate, but it isn't high school science classes. Also of note, you have vacillated on many points in your argument. You have also drug the argument away from the core point. I feel that the reason that you do this is because your core point is not defensible. Justin > -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) > CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. > Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. > My opinions are subject to the availability of information. > I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. > > For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices > orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. > Today's Art Photo > Chem / Fungus allergies > Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. > Arthritis > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 15:03:09 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 15:03:40 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Etc. CORRECTION. In-Reply-To: <20050811160558.50942.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050811155037.55955.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> <20050811160558.50942.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > ARE YOU ASKING ME; OR ARE YOU ASKING *MR. HART*? That's my real name. Hopefully Dr. Hart in 3-5 years. Justin From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 15:18:18 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 15:18:26 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <20050811212452.46246.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050811212452.46246.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > Ha Ha Ha! Fermentation is far older than Christ! It is one of the > ways they stored the nutrients of grain for later consumption. Long > before Christ was born, there was a lady ruler of the Mesopotamia / > Babilonia area who had been a beer hall owner. Certainly, their argument is invalid. On a side note, Lutherans and Catholics both proudly consume alcohol. Niether communion is considered valid if wine is not consumed. Also incidentally, in the Lutheran Church, rituals don't need to be performed by a person even of the faith. As long as the ritual is performed correctly, it is considered valid. > > > As a matter of historical fact, Man's Catholic Church has been in error m= > > any > > > times. Witness the great scientist Galileo, who was threatened with tort= > > ure > > > and death unless he recanted his heresy of publishing the FACT that the > > > Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth is t= > > he > > > center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent the > > > remainder of his life under arrest. > > > > You're confusing politics with religio > > No, the church used politics as a way of controlling the people and > promulgating religion. Hence the dark ages when all knowledge had to be > told in terms of the christ experience. The vow of chastity comes from property disputes in the middle ages, where children claimed property rights to church lands through the death of priests who, under law, claimed ownership to the land. It was a confusing time for the world. > > > And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witch th= > > Not just the inquisition in Spain, but all over. Estimates of death > vary form 1 million to 8 million, mostly women. In some towns, not one > woman was left alive. > > Some text say this was over women's spirituality, others say it was > over rising "drug use" (broom dosed with a drug inducing circulatory > reduction, producing a feeling of flying, depersonalization, etc. which > could sometimes cause brain death or literal death.) and/or various > fungi, particularly ergot, in grains causing aberrant behaviors. Much > controversy as to the cause. > > But particularly women, because women are capable of far greater > sensuality than men are; and tend to band together far more easily than > men. So there is also much envy on the part of men. Psycho-sexual > politics, picked up by the church and used for the purpose of control. > > > > GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashes or > > > atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church decreed > > > that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats, the > > > rats, and their plague-carrying fleas, bred out of control. A third of > > > all humanity died because of this religious degree. > > > > Interesting. Please don't take it as questioning the veracity of that > > statement when I ask the source? I am interested in history, the way > > it really happened, rather than history, the lies we were taught, and > > am always looking for good sources (though, I keep busy with grad > > school). I'd love to get a copy of whatever book that is out of, if > > you have the title or author. > > I too, have heard this from several sources. Ok, could you point me to a few? > > > What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman > Catholic > > > Church? Economy of scale, and who writes the history books. > > > > Rhetoric. > > No. There is valid comparison. Jones took his own life. In the > burning times, the church did not. Rhetoric. Jim Jones was a cult leader. I'm pretty sure that the Pontiff actually believes what he tells the church. > > > This discussion over "intelligent design" and "evolution" is but a tempes= > > t > > > in a teapot. Only the "True Believer," whose heart is hardened to Truth, > > > and whose mind is closed and nailed shut, denies that God could use > > > evolution as His/Hers/Its preferred method of creating life. And that Bi= > > ble > > > these people so freely cite has much to say about those whose hearts have > > > been hardened to the Truth. > > > > To say that is to entirely miss the point. God could do whatever he > > likes. Intelligent Design is not a theory that is accepted by the > > academic community. Science class should be about science, not > > And the bleeding christians are stupid enough to bring it into > examination? Fine! Let's examine it for what it is!!! An d teach the > need to THINK while we are at it! Please don't call my religion stupid again. > > If that is the case, then I propose that we introduce kids to human > > competitive artificial intelligence in science class. At least that > > field has researchers. > > That would soon teach them futility. We need to teach them faith and > hope in humanity, and how they in turn must pass that on and help > fulfill it. Some darned good lessons in the bible, regardless of the > majority of illustrations of ignorant behavior. Thanks for calling my religion stupid again. Shall we start exploring your faith a bit? > > > Who among us knows so much as to second guess God, and state that evoluti= > > on > > > was NOT His/Her/Its chosen method? > > > > Science is not about faith. You should put forth scientific theories > > in science classes. If you would like this to become science, pursue > > it as the end of your research. Certainly once you have built up a > > significant scientific theory, much as we do with physics and anything > > else, your material will be considered as part of the body of > > scientific literature, and taught in grade school. > > Pure science was served in Auschwitz and related places; Japan too! > (Lot of frostbite research, freezing limbs of prisoners, trying to thaw > the limbs, sometimes with a little success, sometimes research on the > subsequent gangarine, other times just amputation of the limb, and more > research on the victim till most victims were dead. Some US prisoners > used there and on bio-weapons research.) So, your argument is that science is bad because you feel that Nazi death camps were merely excellent scientific facilities. That is inaccurate, Nazi death camps were death camps. If they didn't kill those people with cruel experiments, they would have just gassed them like they did others. > Good research! Real results helping save other's lives. > > Without faith in humanity, such research techniques will be > repeated. Trust me, the Nazi regime was not the results of science gone out of control. > > > I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False proph= > > The end times will come when we either develop overly deadly > weapons (e.g. bacterial, nano, etc.) or when the sun warms too much. > > > Ok, so, are you saying that we should, or should not teach Intelligent > > Design in grade school? > > > > > My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. > > I like Einstein's quote. It should be promoted more than his more > famous formula. > -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) > CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. > Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. > My opinions are subject to the availability of information. > I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. > > For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices > orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. > Today's Art Photo > Chem / Fungus allergies > Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. > Arthritis > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From mbest at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 11 17:14:27 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Thu Aug 11 17:14:35 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion Message-ID: <00ef01c59ed2$ce07b6e0$6501a8c0@mikey> Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:36:03 -0400 From: Justin Hart On 8/11/05, Michael Best wrote: > > (Aside- for those unfamiliar with the Southern Baptists, they are > > fundamentalist Christians who viciously defend Creationism, the Literal > > Inerrancy of the Bible, and none would allow a drop of alcohol to cross > > their lips, at least in public. An old joke is that all liquor stores in > > the south have back doors, called "Baptist doors.") > The Southern Baptist faith is much newer than Catholicism or > Lutheranism. Also, the teatotaling bit wasn't part of their faith > until Women's Christian Temperance. They adopted the policy to help > recruit. Immaterial, except to support my argument that organized religious orders are hypocritical political entities, with more in common with Bill Clinton than Jesus Christ. > With that in mind, you don't seem to hold the Southern Baptist Church > in high regard, yet you state that it is a more evolved version of > Catholicism. Nope. Never said that. > > "So please explain to me why the first public miracle of Jesus of Nazareth, > > the Christ- as recorded in the Bible, was to convert water into wine, an > > alcoholic beverage?" > Not true, the argument that they use is that fermentation processes > were not developed, and that wine did not imply alcohol, but grape > juice, much as they use at communion. Bullcrap. Fermentation is Man's oldest chemistry. It predates Christ by several millennia. Further, you seem to miss an important point- the infallibility of translation, done with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. IF it were "grape juice," would not the "Divinely inspired" translators have rendered it as such, NOT "wine"- a term that in modern usage means an alcoholic beverage? Assuming that you are correct, then this means that MANY other passages in the Bible were ALSO incorrectly translated! You cannot have it both ways. Choose one, and stick with it. That dog don't hunt! > > If they remain, I inquire as to why Jesus kept a known prostitute, Mary > > Magdalene, as a close friend. > Lutherans and Catholics accept the inevitability of sin, and that > Jesus is forgiving of those sins. Luther said "sin boldly." To that > degree it is not a core principal of the church that you are to make > those who are sinful pariahs, because of the inescapability of your > own sin. I am not sure what the Southern Baptist Church says about > this, but I know a Southern Baptist minister who has preached to those > who society would rather turn its back upon. Based on his acts, I > would have to say that self-righteously looking down upon all around > you is not a core value of that church, but rather of confused > practitioners, who have not taken the time to understand their faith, > or what it means to their lives. I could be wrong, however, never > having been baptist. So where in there is your refutation of Jesus' association with a whore? > Lutherans and Catholics, however, observe confession. Also of note is > that the faiths are much older. Older than Christianity??? I think not. They are *Man's interpretation* of Christianity, nothing more. And quite flawed. The Catholic and Lutheran churches are younger than Christianity, and only slightly older than Islam, with which I classify them. Have you ever read the Gnostic texts, banned and nearly destroyed by the politics of the early Catholic Church? > > As a matter of historical fact, Man's Catholic Church has been in error many > > times. Witness the great scientist Galileo, who was threatened with torture > > and death unless he recanted his heresy of publishing the FACT that the > > Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth is the > > center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent the > > remainder of his life under arrest. > You're confusing politics with religion Hardly. In that time politics and religion were one and the same. > > And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witch than > In parts, all heretics were called "Lutherans," because on of the aims > of the inquisition was to purge the church of Lutherans. More Church-propagated BS. The Inquisition was all about political and economic power, nothing more, nothing less. Lutherans were followers of Martin Luther. And it appears that you would classify me as a heretic! If Jesus were to post to this list, would He be a heretic, too? What about Buddha or Athena? > > GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashes or > > atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church decreed > > that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats, the > > rats, and their plague-carrying fleas, bred out of control. A third of all > > humanity died because of this religious decree. > Interesting. Please don't take it as questioning the veracity of that > statement when I ask the source? I am interested in history, the way > it really happened, rather than history, the lies we were taught, and > am always looking for good sources (though, I keep busy with grad > school). I'd love to get a copy of whatever book that is out of, if > you have the title or author. Well, it will take me awhile to find the citations, but they are there. Besides, are you a follower of Farrakhan, who believes that the etymology of "library" is from "where they *lie* and *bury* the truth?" My darker-skinned friends have told me of this etymology many times. But I did ask my cats. They told me they would prefer fresh small rodents to the cereal I feed them. I told them to go get their own fresh meat. > > What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman Catholic > > Church? Economy of scale, and who writes the history books. > Rhetoric. Spoken like a True Believer. > > This discussion over "intelligent design" and "evolution" is but a tempest > > in a teapot. Only the "True Believer," whose heart is hardened to Truth, > To say that is to entirely miss the point. God could do whatever he > likes. On that point, we are in violent agreement. But I refuse to limit God's power for political gain. > Intelligent Design is not a theory that is accepted by the > academic community. Science class should be about science, not > religion. One would think that, after taking such care to run down > religion for the past several paragraphs, that you would end by siding > with science. But can you not see how evolution IS intelligent design? I do not advocate teaching it in science class, but I think that intelligent students will, as I have, reconcile Darwinism with the Bible. > Instead, you run down religion, and then say "well, > anything that's possible should be taught in science class. Now you miss MY point. Science and Christianity can, and do, coexist. I "run down" Man's organized religion, NOT the fundamental belief in God. Science is, and always has been, the empirical search by Man for God's Truth of the universe. It is, perhaps, the purest religion of all. Any organized religion or politics that interfere with this great endeavor is the work of Satan, IMHO. > Ok, so, are you saying that we should, or should not teach Intelligent > Design in grade school? If you have read to this point, you have your answer. Those with wisdom will understand. My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. -MB From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 17:45:44 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 17:45:50 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <00ef01c59ed2$ce07b6e0$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <00ef01c59ed2$ce07b6e0$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: > Immaterial, except to support my argument that organized religious orders > are hypocritical political entities, with more in common with Bill Clinton > than Jesus Christ. You're taking one church, and saying that what they do applies equally to all churches. I'm saying that many other churches disagree with this particular church. > Nope. Never said that. This whole argument offering religion as a model for evolution does that. > Bullcrap. Fermentation is Man's oldest chemistry. It predates Christ by > several millennia. I understand that, you said that the people who make this argument buckle under the strain, and tell you to go away. I'm just telling you what they actually say. > Further, you seem to miss an important point- the infallibility of > translation, done with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. IF it were "grape > juice," would not the "Divinely inspired" translators have rendered it as > such, NOT "wine"- a term that in modern usage means an alcoholic beverage? I don't make that argument. I'm telling you what their argument is. I view it as flawed. That doesn't change the fact that they make that argument. Please don't attribute their argument to me, as I was merely telling what their argument is. > Assuming that you are correct, then this means that MANY other passages in > the Bible were ALSO incorrectly translated! You cannot have it both ways. > Choose one, and stick with it. > > That dog don't hunt! You're going to keep running with this idea that I made that argument, aren't you. > > > If they remain, I inquire as to why Jesus kept a known prostitute, Mary > > > Magdalene, as a close friend. > > > Lutherans and Catholics accept the inevitability of sin, and that > > Jesus is forgiving of those sins. Luther said "sin boldly." To that > > degree it is not a core principal of the church that you are to make > > those who are sinful pariahs, because of the inescapability of your > > own sin. I am not sure what the Southern Baptist Church says about > > this, but I know a Southern Baptist minister who has preached to those > > who society would rather turn its back upon. Based on his acts, I > > would have to say that self-righteously looking down upon all around > > you is not a core value of that church, but rather of confused > > practitioners, who have not taken the time to understand their faith, > > or what it means to their lives. I could be wrong, however, never > > having been baptist. > > So where in there is your refutation of Jesus' association with a whore? There is none. We don't care that she was a whore. > > Lutherans and Catholics, however, observe confession. Also of note is > > that the faiths are much older. > > Older than Christianity??? I think not. They are *Man's interpretation* of > Christianity, nothing more. And quite flawed. The Catholic and Lutheran > churches are younger than Christianity, and only slightly older than Islam, > with which I classify them. No. Lutheranism and Catholicism are older than the Southern Baptist Church. > Have you ever read the Gnostic texts, banned and nearly destroyed by the > politics of the early Catholic Church? Yes. > > > As a matter of historical fact, Man's Catholic Church has been in error > many > > > times. Witness the great scientist Galileo, who was threatened with > torture > > > and death unless he recanted his heresy of publishing the FACT that the > > > Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth is > the > > > center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent the > > > remainder of his life under arrest. > > > You're confusing politics with religion > > Hardly. In that time politics and religion were one and the same. That's not true, people used religion as a political card to be played like any other. This is well documented and understood. > > > And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witch > than > > > In parts, all heretics were called "Lutherans," because on of the aims > > of the inquisition was to purge the church of Lutherans. > > More Church-propagated BS. The Inquisition was all about political and > economic power, nothing more, nothing less. > > Lutherans were followers of Martin Luther. Thanks for clarifying that. I'm Lutheran. You also discredit your earlier argument that politics and religion were the same. > And it appears that you would classify me as a heretic! If Jesus were to > post to this list, would He be a heretic, too? What about Buddha or Athena? I said that the Lutherans were burned as heretics. Are you reading what I'm writing, or just making up things that I have said? > > > GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashes > or > > > atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church > decreed > > > that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats, > the > > > rats, and their plague-carrying fleas, bred out of control. A third of > all > > > humanity died because of this religious decree. > > > Interesting. Please don't take it as questioning the veracity of that > > statement when I ask the source? I am interested in history, the way > > it really happened, rather than history, the lies we were taught, and > > am always looking for good sources (though, I keep busy with grad > > school). I'd love to get a copy of whatever book that is out of, if > > you have the title or author. > > Well, it will take me awhile to find the citations, but they are there. > Besides, are you a follower of Farrakhan, who believes that the etymology of > "library" is from "where they *lie* and *bury* the truth?" My > darker-skinned friends have told me of this etymology many times. I want a book. That's all. I wanted to add something to my personal library. > But I did ask my cats. They told me they would prefer fresh small rodents > to the cereal I feed them. I told them to go get their own fresh meat. Thanks for the data. > > > What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman > Catholic > > > Church? Economy of scale, and who writes the history books. > > > Rhetoric. > > Spoken like a True Believer. More rhetoric. > > > This discussion over "intelligent design" and "evolution" is but a > tempest > > > in a teapot. Only the "True Believer," whose heart is hardened to > Truth, > > > To say that is to entirely miss the point. God could do whatever he > > likes. > > On that point, we are in violent agreement. But I refuse to limit God's > power for political gain. You are, again interpretting what I say as you like, rather than what it says. > > Intelligent Design is not a theory that is accepted by the > > academic community. Science class should be about science, not > > religion. One would think that, after taking such care to run down > > religion for the past several paragraphs, that you would end by siding > > with science. > > But can you not see how evolution IS intelligent design? I do not advocate > teaching it in science class, but I think that intelligent students will, as > I have, reconcile Darwinism with the Bible. I'm not making that argument. I am fine with the idea that evolution is intelligent design, indeed, that is how I have interpretted it. That, howeveri is a personal interpretation of a religious phenomenon, and not accepted by mainstream science. It probably shouldn't be taught in a history class if it isn't accepted by science. > > Instead, you run down religion, and then say "well, > > anything that's possible should be taught in science class. > > Now you miss MY point. Science and Christianity can, and do, coexist. I > "run down" Man's organized religion, NOT the fundamental belief in God. > Science is, and always has been, the empirical search by Man for God's Truth > of the universe. It is, perhaps, the purest religion of all. Didn't miss your point, you spoke in a circle. > Any organized religion or politics that interfere with this great endeavor > is the work of Satan, IMHO. Boy, nobody can just stick to science on this list, can they? > > Ok, so, are you saying that we should, or should not teach Intelligent > > Design in grade school? > > If you have read to this point, you have your answer. > > Those with wisdom will understand. So now if I don't think that you've formed a strong argument, in either direction, I lack wisdom. Well, that does tie your argument together about as strongly as I expected for it to be. I'm beginning to feel that posting to this list is not only a waste of my time (which is valuable), but a political risk, since I might lose my cool when someone, who can't form a cogent argument, results to insulting me, and I tear them down to size. I can easily imagine a professor being on this list, seeing me posting something totally uncouth, and then not wanting to work with me, because I was unable to decoriously deal with posters on this list. Suffice to say, I would appreciate two things. The first is a certain level of decorum. The second is a certain level of willingness to stick with a strong, core argument when entering into a discussion with me. So far, neither you nor Javlik seem to be able to adhere to either. > My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. > > -MB > > > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 18:02:24 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 18:02:33 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 06:02:16 PM Message-ID: <20050812010224.79620.qmail@mall-net.com> Summary at end. To make science at all interesting, one has to place it in a relevant setting for people to see. The best science and math teachers I had did exactly this. > We generally don't teach disproved theories as part of science > classes. If we did, we would teach that the earth is flat, and go > into great depths describing astrology. In science classes, both in high school and in college, I learned about various obsolete theories and how they were disproven. It's part of learning how to think and experiment objectively. Only as we teach our children to THINK, will they see through a lot of that crap! > > Bush asked to let the kids hear both sides of the story and make up > > their own minds. > > Bush asked that material that does not come from the scientific > community be introduced in the science classes. If he was interested > in influencing science, he would have studied biology and written a > paper introducing Intelligent Design. Now you are way off in left field. What does studying biology and writing scientific or religious paper have to do with leading a nation? You do not believe the teaching of thought has anything to do with science. I believe it is the primary goal OF science education, and education as a whole. Not that anyone seems to try it anymore. > > What legislation? Bush proposed legislation? He did not. He made a > > suggestion. > > He made a suggestion with hopes that it would get enacted into law, Your assumption! > otherwise, nobody would care in the least. So, lets say that we get > rid of the word, legislation, and substitute in "proposal." The No. It was NOT a proposal for a law. It was a statement of his belief. > that right along all of the propaganda that I was taught as a kid, > instead of actually trying to improve the school system. Einstein, "Imagination is more important than facts." For if you imagine, and want, you will find facts, either those supporting you, or those suggesting you'd better go back to the imagination and refine it some more. > > > That's fine, but a science class should be about what is currently > > > believed by science. > >=20 > > Really? I did a report on UFOs. Currently believed by science? > > Nooo... and that was the essence of my report. But I said that there > > was something unknown at the core of some of these things which we must > > admit and should keep investigating. Today, I would be more eloquent > > about the arrogance of science when it trashes something out of hand > > without looking at it to see what it is or isn't. Our mad science > > If something works, it works. Look at the statistics, then look FOR > > mechanisms rather than trying to destroy it just because you are > > ignorant. (But of course, with pharmacology funding the research, > People study homeopathic medicines. People studied plate tectonics.=20 > Sorry your paper got rejected, I guess. It happens. It's not like no > effort is being made to contact aliens. We have SETI. My paper was not for the scientific community. It was for my class. It stated something to the effect that we can not conclude one way, nor another. But yes, most are bogus. What has always fascinated me, is how several people can see the same thing, yet describe it so differently. It is the core of the eye-witness problem in jurisprudence. But also, except for Bluebook, a lot of those things are dismissed without proper investigation. And those who see what they do not understand, learn not to talk about it. > OK. Sorry that your field hasn't generated the level of interest that > you would like for it to have. One of the things about science is, if > nobody is interested in your field, it remains a small field. Still, > I bet that you wouldn't have a lot of competition for a faculty > position in a Ufology department. The data is not plentiful enough, and the reports of witnesses are not thorough enough. The job of a good UFOlogist, would be to repudiate and explain away observations, much as Bluebook did. As the mind works, few can remain objective with such overwhelming crap. > Taken from a farther away stance though. I would shy away from > attempting to prove any theory by stating that the government is > hiding the truth from us. An atomic bomb can be understood fully What has that got to do with anything? You think I believe in flying saucers? I've seen some fly... but I was the one who sent the hand sized ceramic and plastic things flying! I have also traced the Alien Face symbol to a breed of cow many of us have seen, just don't seem to recognize as matching it. > I can call my car an airplane, but that won't make it fly. What's that got to do with it? You can call your dog God for all I care. Everyone else will still call it a dog. > Are you arguing that the masses should determine what qualifies as > science or not. I really don't care whether or not? I'm all for the Unfortunately, they do. We may have our views; but the public at large is larger than we are. Usage determines, Defines language. > This doesn't sound like a group who is trying to prevent the public > from getting in. That said, not all theories will be accepted, > because we're not all going to believe every theory. Instances like this are not that common. Science clearly does shut out a lot of things, such as papers on global cooling. There is just not that much discussion in science, so the scientists who question this are trying to go public. You define science within your subset community. And rightly so. But you also block a lot of other information that is not politically or commercially acceptable. I have watched this in some of the medical research, rigged studies left and right trying to disprove the role of vitamins, forced by grants which require papers to be approved by donors, etc. The last one is about some herb, ecinacia? where the dosage levels were far too low to have much effect. Many studies like that in vitamin C. When I was near death from a fungal infestation, I was eating 200 - 300 GRAMS of C a day to keep the scurvy like symptoms at bay. With that, I survived. But oh, when I explained this to some medical researchers, they refused to investigate further (after saying that I was clearly using good scientific techniques, and clearly knew more than thay did about the illness.). Instead, they started trying to use pharmaceuticals which had clear bad side effects. And oh yes, the survival rates for the illness were abysmal. 14% with heavy intervention. Gee, glad I didn't let them get their hands on me! And I had the highest antibody titers against those fungi that anyone had ever seen! (Chuckle) As for ESP, I use to frequent a health food store. I'd get people walking up to me and starting to talk about that disease. Even if they hardly spoke English! Somehow, they just knew. It is a very humbling experience when others just, for some mystical reasons, know you are the person to help them. > > > Plenty do, or Intelligent Design would stand on trivial proof, and > > > would already be taught in the classroom. > >=20 > > But in some parts of the country, I believe it is -- without the > > teaching of Darwin's Theory. > > That doesn't make it science. WHo says this is science? On the one hand, you are trying to label it as nonsense and keep it ouf of science classes, then you turn around and accuse me of labeling it as science. It isn't! It's belief! A belief that is worth examining from the scientific point of view. ANd admitting that science CAN NOT disprove God or the creation of the universe. Nor should. BUT when mankind tries to label nonsense as facts, it IS without our realm to examine these from a scientific point of view. And is educational to do so! > > exist? What's that about being unable to prove a negative conjecture? > > > Science can not, and should not, be used to destroy faith. Science > > can, and should, examine the handiwork of God (or whatever) to see how > > it works. That's not being unfaithful, it's being curious. And if we > > do refute the dogmatic conjectures of some religious mullahs, well, maybe > > they ought to go and mull their conjectures over some more. > > If the discussion is whether or not Intelligent Design should be > taught in a science class, then you have proven my point. You've said > just what I needed you to say. The reason that you want Intelligent > Design taught as science, is because you are afraid that it not being > accepted as science is a challenge to your faith What??? You are WAY off in left field! I am saying it is educational to apply science to creation, to debate ways of analyzing what we believe; whether it be about a Creator, or what happens under the earth in the local landfill. > I'm Christian, I believe in God, I just don't believe that that has > anything to do with science. See the quote a couple posts back where > Jesus said that that's fine. When people push Intelligent Design and Creation Science onto others, those things are worth examining from the scientific perspective. When they want to do it in science class, FINE! Let them! It's the best tool we can get to make kids stop and THINK! There is enough mysticism in this world that the slaughtering.. err. discussion of intelligent design and creation science isn't going to change much... except the people who wake up and understand that dogma is dogma, propaganda is propaganda, and each of us has to think for him or her self. > > So if I use science to show that someone told a fib... to demolish > > this or that belief, you get offended -- Like the myth of the Virgin > > Mary. Either Christ was a spontaneous cloning, which does happen, > > though very, very rarely in humans, and thus female; or somebody fooled > > around just a little with either facts or something else. And later > > acquired status by the accretion of pagan Goddess beliefs which could not > > be conveniently stamped out. > > What? All that I said is that I believe my faith because I believe > that it is true. I wouldn't be offended at all if you did that, nor > would most of the scientific community. In fact, the reason that I > argue that Intelligent Design needs to stay out of science classrooms > is because it has not stood up to the rigors hat I hold science to. And I beleive that is precisely why we need to discuss it in science class. > > You don't like science doing that, do you? > > Doesn't bother me at all. You're the one who wants to push science > into the classroom. ?? Nonsequitor. > > I believe religion and science owe the people the truth. And that > > there is plenty to be reverent about as one peels the layers off the > > onion to see what really happened, and the hows and why's of its > > influence upon us today. > > That's fine, like I said, I believe in my faith because I believe that > it is the truth. If science disproves it, then I'll probably > re-evaluate my faith. I won't be offended at all. You may, in fact, > go about your experiments to disprove creationism, I guess. Historical evidence. > You're the one who wants religion taught as if it were science, not me. No. Using it as contrast. Getting kids to see conflicting data and discuss it. Not teaching it as science. but bringing Darwinism and Creation whatever in to classes which normally had only one. > > > Sure, but your argument was that if you were God, you would have > > > formed the world via an iterative process. I do not presume to > > > understand how God works, and therefore don't presume that he would > > > follow the process that I would. > > > > When did I say what I would have done? I said it could have been > By asserting that you would have done something one way, thereby > asserting that God may have done it that way, then using that to prop > up your argument, you leave the whole matter on very shaky footing. My language said COULD, not IS or WAS! You must have some reading comprehension issues. Did you take Evelyn Woods or some other speed reading course by chance, they ruin some people's comprehension abilities, from what I've read. I tried to take the course myself, but rejected it as junk because I recognized the comprehension deficits it encouraged. Some lawsuits over it. They did say that university professors read the slowest of all people. Must be because they need to comprehend what they read and evaluate it, rather than filing it into memory unevaluated. > That isn't the point of this nonsense, and I would appreciate if you > stopped pretending that it was. Bush wants Intelligent Design taught > as if it were science, not to be something that we contrast against to > make science more credible. Did he say that? No. And even if he did, it would be evident to almost anyone that it is NOT science. > Really, arguing that that is the point of all of this is like watching > a guy with a bong taped to his mouth argue that he favors medical > marijuana. Say what you mean, don't argue some tangential point to > me, when really you mean something else. Your failure to defend your > point on its own merits betrays that you feel that it has no merit. Your failure to accept what I write at face value, your arguing all over the place dragging me all over the place, makes me feel the same way about you. You are repeatedly putting words into my mouth which I have not written. Same for Bush. > > > Arguing that religion should be taught in science class is like > > > arguing that french should be taught in Spanish class. Both science > > > > But sometimes it is contrasted in French class. As it was on > > occasion in our French class. > > I took a lot of French, and never spoke Spanish in French class at all. Too bad. We had a richer, more experienced teacher. I read ancient Greek in French class. We learned more with him, than with the other teacher. And more about language and life in general. > > That's the point. So some contrast isn't bad. > That's not the point. Proponents of this view really want their > religion taught as if it were science. They know that they can't > defend that view, so they form this side argument. Let it be covered. Anyone with a brain will see there is nothing behind it. Why do I have to say this over and over again, only to have you say that is teaching it AS science or AS religion? > > > > They can try. Just as long as they don't try to refute it with a > > > > bullet to my head, because that does not refute that I was. > > > > > > Nobody is sending storm troopers into churches forcing them to accept > > > evolution. All anybody is asking is that science classes be reserved > >=20 > > I believe they have been trying the opposite for some time. > > So, you mean that you believe that the government has been trying to > force religion on the people for some time? Why must you take the most absurd views and claim them to be mine? There is a lot of contention without examination. Atheists and others ar e trying to force religion OUT of school and out of government. I am not saying religion is right, or wrong. I am saying that examination and fairness are good. I am not Christian, but I believe that it is right and proper to honor Christ at Christmas, not Macy's and Master Card. And sure, why not the Honica Bush and whatever else. > Ok, we don't debate scientific theories in high school science > classes, the scientific community does that, and then we teach what we > believe to be accurate in schools. But in the better schools, there IS debate about science. We had that in our school, as did friends of mine. > What? High school science classes have nothing to do with scientific > research. If you want to research Intelligent Design and disprove it, > well, go right ahead. The scientific community at large has already > rejected it as pseudoscience, and doesn't want it taught because they > don't feel that it is science. I did research in science class. Not experimental research (except for the science fairs), but looking things up in libraries, reading research, etc. Our instructors tried to get us to look at things, NOT to simply memorize facts as they tend to do in South American countries. And if I disagreed with our instructor, I cited literature supporting my conjectures. I'd like to say that I learned that in Jr. High; but in fact, it was just my nature, because early on, I saw most adults didn't know as much about specific things as I did. (As well as that I didn't know about a lot of things that adults did.) I later learned that some of my teachers were afraid of me because they quickly saw that I DID know more about technical things than they did. But our Jr. Science class did reinforce that on a few occasions when I did NOT stand up for my beliefs, and was later shown I was right. You keep saying teach it AS if it were science. It isn't! We teach "automotive" engineering in science class as well. That does not make it science. We do learn something from it. > > > > > > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! = > > > > > > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have fait= > > > > > > My argument was that I would never argue that God follows my thought > > > process, or that I could understand his. I stated that the reason > > > that we say that "God works in mysterious ways," is because we do not > > > find acts of God to be predictable. Your statement was that, > > > somewhere in religion, it says that we should do just that. I then > > > asked where in religion it asked that we should do that. > >=20 In fact the Bible has it both ways. The Lord Shall Provide, and God Helps Those Who Help Themselves It even says (King James Version) That God created the earth, and went away to create other worlds. The priests, however... don't seem to want us so independent. > > > > > What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? > > > > Just as long as there was discussion vs what we have found via > > > > geology, paleontology, etc. > > > > > > But why not just skip it? It's not relevant. > > Because the ultimate goal of teaching science, is teaching kids to > > think using good thought processes. > > So, you want to teach kids that it's a good thought process to accept > pseudoscience as if it were science. Why do you insist on taking the worst interpretation of what I say and shoving it in my mouth when I repeatedly state that I believe discussion encourages thought! Are you unable to comprehend English? Or is this some debating style you came up with, because you can't find anything dramatic enough to argue over in my premise? > Ok, you can hate science if you like. I won't stop you, nor will I > take the time to try to convince you otherwise. I've already wasted a > couple hours of my time (which I should be spending on research) > exploring your psyche. Again, you read things into my words that are not there. Would I back science if I hated it? You seem not to wish to understand what I am saying. I think others DO understand what I am saying. > > I never claimed to hate The One True God. I worship Athena simply > > because I like what She stands for. It's more like we believe in the > > same things. And whether she be Creator, Goddess, representative of > > those values, prophet elevated to Goddess status, or whatever, is > > irrelevant to me. It's like Hecate could offer me all the jewels in the > > world, and I would not be tempted to walk away from Athena because by > > discarding those values, I would be destroying a core part of my self. > validity of my savoir being killed for my sins, then I feel quite at > liberty to question your belief that Zeus came in the form of a goat > to have sex with a human and breed a superwarrior. I did not say I believed in the myths, did I? I said I believed in the Values. Myths are myths, just like Genesis, with it's dozen interpretations, etc. > You're not contrasting this at all, you're trying to drag the > conversation away from a point that you can't defend. I thought that is what you keep doing when you put words into Bush's and my mouths. We are not debating what words he used, we are debating whether it is good to introduce, show, review, intelligent design in science class. > > Our founding fathers used religion as the core of their argument to > > the right to become independent. They stood up for this belief, risking > > EVERYTHING including their own lives! And many did die because of this > > RELIGIOUS BASED belief! > > Actually, they didn't like being taxed. Did the constitution say that? Did the Declaration of Independence say that? > Omniscient: All knowing, you know everything about everything. > Prescient: Able to predict the future. Knowing everything about everything includes knowing the future of everything. At least that is the way I understood it, because the more you know, the more you know what will happen. > I know quite a bit about artificial intelligence. While I could place As do I. The limitation is the imagination and willingness of people to use it. ... > That's not how evolution works though. Evolution involves killing off > old stuff to make way for better new stuff. So? So it takes a few thousand years. > > "These principles apply not only to the evolution of The Church, > > but als so to the evolution of life itself." > > The problem with that argument is that it isn't a terribly valid one. SO run a few thousand computer simulations. You'll see how it is. > > I guess we are not going to convince each other. Does this mean we > > are obstinate, we are not using good enough arguments, or that our > > ability to debate is not up to par with what is needed? > >=20 > > Shall we continue practicing? Or call it a day? > >=20 > > I for one, enjoy the thoughts that good debate turns up, sometimes > > far more than the debate itself. Hey, this beats answering a bunch of > > health questions in another forum. > > Oh, it's fun and all, but it really is eating up quite a bit of time.=20 > I have research to be completing. Agreed. > 1) You think that Intelligent Design should be taught in public schools. Taught as an opinion some people have. And used to encourage questions when we hit facts. > 2) You think that the scientific community is afraid of this, because > it their theories could not stand up against Intelligent Design. That I did not say. I said the Intelligent Design crowd would get slaughtered, and the kids would learn something in the process. > 3) You think that Intelligent Design is accurate, and that Science > can't disprove it. I never, ever even implied that! > 4) You think that Intelligent Design is inaccurate, and that science > should be used to dismantle it. Actually, not. I said that it could be used as a good contrast to scientific thought, and thus be a good teaching / waking aid. > 5) You think that Intelligent Design should be used to contrast real > science against. Yes. > 6) You think that scientists are afraid to discuss Intelligent Design No. > 7) You think that scientists are unaccepting of Intelligent Design Yes. > A recurring thread in your argument is that you feel that a high > school science class is a place to debate scientific theories that > have not yet even been debated or accepted by the scientific > community. Central to what I am trying to convey to you, is the the > scientific community has places for open debate, but it isn't high > school science classes. We learn debate in school. Not only that, we learn the validity of debate and the applicability of methods of thought in school. My teachers liked to present contradictory information, then get us to think about it. THAT encourages thought and debate. And in that, the class usually turned to me. And I tended to keep my mouth shut to encourage them to think. > Also of note, you have vacillated on many points in your argument.=20 > You have also drug the argument away from the core point. I feel that > the reason that you do this is because your core point is not > defensible. I think you do not grasp the applicability of the side argument as part of the main argument. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 18:29:33 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 18:29:38 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 06:18:18 PM Message-ID: <20050812012933.96521.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > > Earth revolves around the Sun! What heresy! We ALL know that Earth = > is the > > > > center of God's Creation! He recanted to save his skin, and spent th= > > > > remainder of his life under arrest. > > > You're confusing politics with religio > >=20 > > No, the church used politics as a way of controlling the people and > > promulgating religion. Hence the dark ages when all knowledge had to be > > told in terms of the christ experience. > > The vow of chastity comes from property disputes in the middle ages, > where children claimed property rights to church lands through the > death of priests who, under law, claimed ownership to the land. It > was a confusing time for the world. What has that got to do with Galileo? You are the one straying again. > > > > And let's not forget the Inquisition! What better way to find a witc= > > > > GET REAL! More people have died from "religion" than from car crashe= > s or > > > > atomic bombs! The Bubonic Plague was unleashed because the Church de= > creed > > > > that all cats were Satanic, and must be destroyed. Without the cats,= > > > Interesting. Please don't take it as questioning the veracity of that > > > statement when I ask the source? I am interested in history, the way > > > it really happened, rather than history, the lies we were taught, and > > > am always looking for good sources (though, I keep busy with grad > > > school). I'd love to get a copy of whatever book that is out of, if > > > you have the title or author. > >=20 > > I too, have heard this from several sources. > > Ok, could you point me to a few? Walk in to any good book store or consult the web. LOTS of sources for these, some even good. > > > > What is the difference between Jim Jones in Guyana and the Roman > > Catholic > Rhetoric. Jim Jones was a cult leader. I'm pretty sure that the > Pontiff actually believes what he tells the church. So did Jim Jones. > > > To say that is to entirely miss the point. God could do whatever he > > > likes. Intelligent Design is not a theory that is accepted by the > > > academic community. Science class should be about science, not > >=20 > > And the bleeding christians are stupid enough to bring it into > > examination? Fine! Let's examine it for what it is!!! An d teach the > > need to THINK while we are at it! > > Please don't call my religion stupid again. Those who wish to bring it to the slaughterhouse know not what they do. Not all are so stupid. But if the stupid wish... so be it! > > > If that is the case, then I propose that we introduce kids to human > > > competitive artificial intelligence in science class. At least that > > > field has researchers. > > That would soon teach them futility. We need to teach them faith and > > hope in humanity, and how they in turn must pass that on and help > > fulfill it. Some darned good lessons in the bible, regardless of the > > majority of illustrations of ignorant behavior. > > Thanks for calling my religion stupid again. Shall we start exploring > your faith a bit? What have I said that calls your religion (as opposed to some practitioners) stupid? > > > > Who among us knows so much as to second guess God, and state that evo= > luti=3D > > > on > > > > was NOT His/Her/Its chosen method? > > > > > > Science is not about faith. You should put forth scientific theories > > > in science classes. If you would like this to become science, pursue Ah! Put forth THEORIES. Well, Intelligent Design is a theory. Not, perhaps, a very good one, but not all our specimens are very good after they have been sitting in formalin, etc. So let us attend the disection! > > Pure science was served in Auschwitz and related places; Japan too! > > (Lot of frostbite research, freezing limbs of prisoners, trying to thaw > So, your argument is that science is bad because you feel that Nazi > death camps were merely excellent scientific facilities. Another Nonsequitor from you! Science is a tool. > > That is inaccurate, Nazi death camps were death camps. If they didn't > kill those people with cruel experiments, they would have just gassed > them like they did others. Oh, so to use your methods of argument, should I now accuse you of justifying the torture because it was scientifically useful? > > Good research! Real results helping save other's lives. > >=20 > > Without faith in humanity, such research techniques will be > > repeated. > > Trust me, the Nazi regime was not the results of science gone out of contro= > l. Really? I thought Hitler had a good Eugenics program, and based most of his rhethoric on the genetic superiority of the Arian race. Same for the Japanese as they marched trying to take over their part of the world. > > > > I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False p= > roph=3D > > The end times will come when we either develop overly deadly > > weapons (e.g. bacterial, nano, etc.) or when the sun warms too much. Or maybe some Neo-Hitlerian jackass tries to take over the world, and succeeds in his great inbreeding program which brings about the destruction of the human genome. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 18:49:22 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 18:49:28 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <20050812012933.96521.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050812012933.96521.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > What has that got to do with Galileo? You are the one straying > again. Nope, that goes directly counter the point. > Walk in to any good book store or consult the web. LOTS of sources > for these, some even good. Well, thanks for not sharing. I just asked out of interest, thought you might be able to help. You can't. > So did Jim Jones. Ok. My premise is that we should keep creationism out of schools, but I'm ok with christianity. You want creationism in schools, and have a distaste for christianity. > Those who wish to bring it to the slaughterhouse know not what they > do. Not all are so stupid. But if the stupid wish... so be it! Dude. You accept greek mythology as faith. I do not wish to drag this conversation into the mud, but just think of the angles that I could attack greek mythology from. > What have I said that calls your religion (as opposed to some > practitioners) stupid? Some of it's practitioners are fine. Some of them are stupid. > Ah! Put forth THEORIES. Well, Intelligent Design is a theory. > Not, perhaps, a very good one, but not all our specimens are very good > after they have been sitting in formalin, etc. So let us attend the > disection! FIne, do you understand how you submit a scientific theory? You publish it in a journal or a conference. High school classrooms aren't a valid venue for this. > Another Nonsequitor from you! Not at all. You just wish to find some since you make so many. You want to get even. > Science is a tool. Thanks for the update. > Oh, so to use your methods of argument, should I now accuse you of > justifying the torture because it was scientifically useful? I didn't justify it. You were attacking science as being a tool of the Nazis. What I'm telling you is, those camps were death camps, not labs. I sincerely doubt your reading comprehension skills, and have for a while now. > Really? I thought Hitler had a good Eugenics program, and based > most of his rhethoric on the genetic superiority of the Arian race. > Same for the Japanese as they marched trying to take over their part of > the world. I'm not sure that anybody can call Eugenics good. I am sure that you couldn't call Hitler a great scientist. > Or maybe some Neo-Hitlerian jackass tries to take over the world, and > succeeds in his great inbreeding program which brings about the > destruction of the human genome. Well, as long as we're firmly grounded in fantasy. Perhaps the CareBears could become evil, and give us the CareBearEvilEye. > -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) > CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. > Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. > My opinions are subject to the availability of information. > I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. > > For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices > orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. > Today's Art Photo > Chem / Fungus allergies > Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. > Arthritis > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 18:57:26 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 18:57:32 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050812010224.79620.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050812010224.79620.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: I'm sorry. This discussion is taking way too much of my time. I had intended to spend 8 hours today working on my research, between answering posts in forums, and a couple things that came up today, I just don't have the time to continue this conversation. It's safe to say that we definately disagree, and we're beginning to just run each other into the ground. On that same note, this list sincerely, generally, dissapoints me. I'll just stay on a couple more days to see what reactions are, and then discontinue my membership. Justin On 8/11/05, javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > Summary at end. > > To make science at all interesting, one has to place it in a > relevant setting for people to see. > > The best science and math teachers I had did exactly this. > > > We generally don't teach disproved theories as part of science > > classes. If we did, we would teach that the earth is flat, and go > > into great depths describing astrology. > > In science classes, both in high school and in college, I learned > about various obsolete theories and how they were disproven. It's part > of learning how to think and experiment objectively. > > Only as we teach our children to THINK, will they see through a lot > of that crap! > > > > Bush asked to let the kids hear both sides of the story and make up > > > their own minds. > > > > Bush asked that material that does not come from the scientific > > community be introduced in the science classes. If he was interested > > in influencing science, he would have studied biology and written a > > paper introducing Intelligent Design. > > Now you are way off in left field. What does studying biology and > writing scientific or religious paper have to do with leading a nation? > > You do not believe the teaching of thought has anything to do with > science. I believe it is the primary goal OF science education, and > education as a whole. Not that anyone seems to try it anymore. > > > > What legislation? Bush proposed legislation? He did not. He made a > > > suggestion. > > > > He made a suggestion with hopes that it would get enacted into law, > > Your assumption! > > > otherwise, nobody would care in the least. So, lets say that we get > > rid of the word, legislation, and substitute in "proposal." The > > No. It was NOT a proposal for a law. It was a statement of his > belief. > > > that right along all of the propaganda that I was taught as a kid, > > instead of actually trying to improve the school system. > > Einstein, "Imagination is more important than facts." > > For if you imagine, and want, you will find facts, either those > supporting you, or those suggesting you'd better go back to the > imagination and refine it some more. > > > > > That's fine, but a science class should be about what is currently > > > > believed by science. > > >=20 > > > Really? I did a report on UFOs. Currently believed by science? > > > Nooo... and that was the essence of my report. But I said that there > > > was something unknown at the core of some of these things which we must > > > admit and should keep investigating. Today, I would be more eloquent > > > about the arrogance of science when it trashes something out of hand > > > without looking at it to see what it is or isn't. Our mad science > > > > If something works, it works. Look at the statistics, then look FOR > > > mechanisms rather than trying to destroy it just because you are > > > ignorant. (But of course, with pharmacology funding the research, > > > People study homeopathic medicines. People studied plate tectonics.=20 > > Sorry your paper got rejected, I guess. It happens. It's not like no > > effort is being made to contact aliens. We have SETI. > > My paper was not for the scientific community. It was for my class. > It stated something to the effect that we can not conclude one way, nor > another. But yes, most are bogus. > > What has always fascinated me, is how several people can see the > same thing, yet describe it so differently. It is the core of the > eye-witness problem in jurisprudence. > > But also, except for Bluebook, a lot of those things are dismissed > without proper investigation. And those who see what they do not > understand, learn not to talk about it. > > > OK. Sorry that your field hasn't generated the level of interest that > > you would like for it to have. One of the things about science is, if > > nobody is interested in your field, it remains a small field. Still, > > I bet that you wouldn't have a lot of competition for a faculty > > position in a Ufology department. > > The data is not plentiful enough, and the reports of witnesses are > not thorough enough. > > The job of a good UFOlogist, would be to repudiate and explain away > observations, much as Bluebook did. As the mind works, few can remain > objective with such overwhelming crap. > > > Taken from a farther away stance though. I would shy away from > > attempting to prove any theory by stating that the government is > > hiding the truth from us. An atomic bomb can be understood fully > > What has that got to do with anything? You think I believe in > flying saucers? I've seen some fly... but I was the one who sent the > hand sized ceramic and plastic things flying! > > I have also traced the Alien Face symbol to a breed of cow many of > us have seen, just don't seem to recognize as matching it. > > > I can call my car an airplane, but that won't make it fly. > > What's that got to do with it? You can call your dog God for all I > care. Everyone else will still call it a dog. > > > Are you arguing that the masses should determine what qualifies as > > science or not. I really don't care whether or not? I'm all for the > > Unfortunately, they do. We may have our views; but the public at > large is larger than we are. Usage determines, Defines language. > > > This doesn't sound like a group who is trying to prevent the public > > from getting in. That said, not all theories will be accepted, > > because we're not all going to believe every theory. > > Instances like this are not that common. Science clearly does shut > out a lot of things, such as papers on global cooling. There is just > not that much discussion in science, so the scientists who question this > are trying to go public. > > You define science within your subset community. And rightly so. > But you also block a lot of other information that is not politically or > commercially acceptable. > > I have watched this in some of the medical research, rigged > studies left and right trying to disprove the role of vitamins, forced > by grants which require papers to be approved by donors, etc. The last > one is about some herb, ecinacia? where the dosage levels were far too > low to have much effect. Many studies like that in vitamin C. When I > was near death from a fungal infestation, I was eating 200 - 300 GRAMS > of C a day to keep the scurvy like symptoms at bay. With that, I > survived. But oh, when I explained this to some medical researchers, > they refused to investigate further (after saying that I was clearly > using good scientific techniques, and clearly knew more than thay did > about the illness.). Instead, they started trying to use > pharmaceuticals which had clear bad side effects. And oh yes, the > survival rates for the illness were abysmal. 14% with heavy > intervention. Gee, glad I didn't let them get their hands on me! > And I had the highest antibody titers against those fungi that anyone > had ever seen! > > (Chuckle) As for ESP, I use to frequent a health food store. I'd get > people walking up to me and starting to talk about that disease. Even > if they hardly spoke English! Somehow, they just knew. It is a very > humbling experience when others just, for some mystical reasons, know > you are the person to help them. > > > > > Plenty do, or Intelligent Design would stand on trivial proof, and > > > > would already be taught in the classroom. > > >=20 > > > But in some parts of the country, I believe it is -- without the > > > teaching of Darwin's Theory. > > > > That doesn't make it science. > > WHo says this is science? > > On the one hand, you are trying to label it as nonsense and keep it > ouf of science classes, then you turn around and accuse me of labeling > it as science. It isn't! It's belief! A belief that is worth > examining from the scientific point of view. ANd admitting that > science CAN NOT disprove God or the creation of the universe. Nor > should. BUT when mankind tries to label nonsense as facts, it IS without > our realm to examine these from a scientific point of view. > > And is educational to do so! > > > > exist? What's that about being unable to prove a negative conjecture? > > > > > Science can not, and should not, be used to destroy faith. Science > > > can, and should, examine the handiwork of God (or whatever) to see how > > > it works. That's not being unfaithful, it's being curious. And if we > > > do refute the dogmatic conjectures of some religious mullahs, well, maybe > > > they ought to go and mull their conjectures over some more. > > > > If the discussion is whether or not Intelligent Design should be > > taught in a science class, then you have proven my point. You've said > > just what I needed you to say. The reason that you want Intelligent > > Design taught as science, is because you are afraid that it not being > > accepted as science is a challenge to your faith > > What??? You are WAY off in left field! > > I am saying it is educational to apply science to creation, to > debate ways of analyzing what we believe; whether it be about a Creator, > or what happens under the earth in the local landfill. > > > I'm Christian, I believe in God, I just don't believe that that has > > anything to do with science. See the quote a couple posts back where > > Jesus said that that's fine. > > When people push Intelligent Design and Creation Science onto > others, those things are worth examining from the scientific > perspective. When they want to do it in science class, FINE! Let them! > It's the best tool we can get to make kids stop and THINK! > > There is enough mysticism in this world that the slaughtering.. err. > discussion of intelligent design and creation science isn't going to > change much... except the people who wake up and understand that dogma > is dogma, propaganda is propaganda, and each of us has to think for him > or her self. > > > > So if I use science to show that someone told a fib... to demolish > > > this or that belief, you get offended -- Like the myth of the Virgin > > > Mary. Either Christ was a spontaneous cloning, which does happen, > > > though very, very rarely in humans, and thus female; or somebody fooled > > > around just a little with either facts or something else. And later > > > acquired status by the accretion of pagan Goddess beliefs which could not > > > be conveniently stamped out. > > > > What? All that I said is that I believe my faith because I believe > > that it is true. I wouldn't be offended at all if you did that, nor > > would most of the scientific community. In fact, the reason that I > > argue that Intelligent Design needs to stay out of science classrooms > > is because it has not stood up to the rigors hat I hold science to. > > And I beleive that is precisely why we need to discuss it in science > class. > > > > You don't like science doing that, do you? > > > > Doesn't bother me at all. You're the one who wants to push science > > into the classroom. > > ?? Nonsequitor. > > > > I believe religion and science owe the people the truth. And that > > > there is plenty to be reverent about as one peels the layers off the > > > onion to see what really happened, and the hows and why's of its > > > influence upon us today. > > > > That's fine, like I said, I believe in my faith because I believe that > > it is the truth. If science disproves it, then I'll probably > > re-evaluate my faith. I won't be offended at all. You may, in fact, > > go about your experiments to disprove creationism, I guess. > > Historical evidence. > > > You're the one who wants religion taught as if it were science, not me. > > No. Using it as contrast. Getting kids to see conflicting data and > discuss it. Not teaching it as science. but bringing Darwinism and > Creation whatever in to classes which normally had only one. > > > > > > Sure, but your argument was that if you were God, you would have > > > > formed the world via an iterative process. I do not presume to > > > > understand how God works, and therefore don't presume that he would > > > > follow the process that I would. > > > > > > When did I say what I would have done? I said it could have been > > > By asserting that you would have done something one way, thereby > > asserting that God may have done it that way, then using that to prop > > up your argument, you leave the whole matter on very shaky footing. > > My language said COULD, not IS or WAS! You must have some reading > comprehension issues. Did you take Evelyn Woods or some other speed > reading course by chance, they ruin some people's comprehension > abilities, from what I've read. I tried to take the course myself, but > rejected it as junk because I recognized the comprehension deficits it > encouraged. Some lawsuits over it. They did say that university > professors read the slowest of all people. Must be because they need to > comprehend what they read and evaluate it, rather than filing it into > memory unevaluated. > > > > That isn't the point of this nonsense, and I would appreciate if you > > stopped pretending that it was. Bush wants Intelligent Design taught > > as if it were science, not to be something that we contrast against to > > make science more credible. > > Did he say that? No. And even if he did, it would be evident to > almost anyone that it is NOT science. > > > Really, arguing that that is the point of all of this is like watching > > a guy with a bong taped to his mouth argue that he favors medical > > marijuana. Say what you mean, don't argue some tangential point to > > me, when really you mean something else. Your failure to defend your > > point on its own merits betrays that you feel that it has no merit. > > Your failure to accept what I write at face value, your arguing all > over the place dragging me all over the place, makes me feel the same > way about you. > > You are repeatedly putting words into my mouth which I have not > written. Same for Bush. > > > > > Arguing that religion should be taught in science class is like > > > > arguing that french should be taught in Spanish class. Both science > > > > > > But sometimes it is contrasted in French class. As it was on > > > occasion in our French class. > > > > I took a lot of French, and never spoke Spanish in French class at all. > > Too bad. We had a richer, more experienced teacher. I read ancient > Greek in French class. > > We learned more with him, than with the other teacher. And more > about language and life in general. > > > > That's the point. So some contrast isn't bad. > > > That's not the point. Proponents of this view really want their > > religion taught as if it were science. They know that they can't > > defend that view, so they form this side argument. > > Let it be covered. Anyone with a brain will see there is nothing > behind it. Why do I have to say this over and over again, only to have > you say that is teaching it AS science or AS religion? > > > > > > > > They can try. Just as long as they don't try to refute it with a > > > > > bullet to my head, because that does not refute that I was. > > > > > > > > Nobody is sending storm troopers into churches forcing them to accept > > > > evolution. All anybody is asking is that science classes be reserved > > >=20 > > > I believe they have been trying the opposite for some time. > > > > So, you mean that you believe that the government has been trying to > > force religion on the people for some time? > > Why must you take the most absurd views and claim them to be mine? > > There is a lot of contention without examination. Atheists and > others ar e trying to force religion OUT of school and out of > government. > > I am not saying religion is right, or wrong. I am saying that > examination and fairness are good. > > I am not Christian, but I believe that it is right and proper to > honor Christ at Christmas, not Macy's and Master Card. And sure, why not > the Honica Bush and whatever else. > > > > Ok, we don't debate scientific theories in high school science > > classes, the scientific community does that, and then we teach what we > > believe to be accurate in schools. > > But in the better schools, there IS debate about science. We had > that in our school, as did friends of mine. > > > > What? High school science classes have nothing to do with scientific > > research. If you want to research Intelligent Design and disprove it, > > well, go right ahead. The scientific community at large has already > > rejected it as pseudoscience, and doesn't want it taught because they > > don't feel that it is science. > > I did research in science class. Not experimental research (except > for the science fairs), but looking things up in libraries, reading > research, etc. Our instructors tried to get us to look at things, NOT > to simply memorize facts as they tend to do in South American countries. > > And if I disagreed with our instructor, I cited literature > supporting my conjectures. I'd like to say that I learned that in Jr. > High; but in fact, it was just my nature, because early on, I saw most > adults didn't know as much about specific things as I did. (As well as > that I didn't know about a lot of things that adults did.) I later > learned that some of my teachers were afraid of me because they quickly > saw that I DID know more about technical things than they did. > > But our Jr. Science class did reinforce that on a few occasions > when I did NOT stand up for my beliefs, and was later shown I was > right. > > You keep saying teach it AS if it were science. It isn't! We > teach "automotive" engineering in science class as well. That does not > make it science. We do learn something from it. > > > > > > > > > > Lets see now, on page 5449652... Oh, it say WE should do it! = > > > > > > > It shudda been obvious! Danged those priests and their 'have fait= > > > > > > > > My argument was that I would never argue that God follows my thought > > > > process, or that I could understand his. I stated that the reason > > > > that we say that "God works in mysterious ways," is because we do not > > > > find acts of God to be predictable. Your statement was that, > > > > somewhere in religion, it says that we should do just that. I then > > > > asked where in religion it asked that we should do that. > > >=20 > > In fact the Bible has it both ways. The Lord Shall Provide, and God > Helps Those Who Help Themselves It even says (King James Version) That > God created the earth, and went away to create other worlds. > > The priests, however... don't seem to want us so independent. > > > > > > > What if the curriculum for this involved reading Genesis? > > > > > > Just as long as there was discussion vs what we have found via > > > > > geology, paleontology, etc. > > > > > > > > But why not just skip it? It's not relevant. > > > > Because the ultimate goal of teaching science, is teaching kids to > > > think using good thought processes. > > > > So, you want to teach kids that it's a good thought process to accept > > pseudoscience as if it were science. > > Why do you insist on taking the worst interpretation of what I say > and shoving it in my mouth when I repeatedly state that I believe > discussion encourages thought! > > Are you unable to comprehend English? Or is this some debating > style you came up with, because you can't find anything dramatic enough > to argue over in my premise? > > > Ok, you can hate science if you like. I won't stop you, nor will I > > take the time to try to convince you otherwise. I've already wasted a > > couple hours of my time (which I should be spending on research) > > exploring your psyche. > > Again, you read things into my words that are not there. Would I > back science if I hated it? > > You seem not to wish to understand what I am saying. I think > others DO understand what I am saying. > > > > I never claimed to hate The One True God. I worship Athena simply > > > because I like what She stands for. It's more like we believe in the > > > same things. And whether she be Creator, Goddess, representative of > > > those values, prophet elevated to Goddess status, or whatever, is > > > irrelevant to me. It's like Hecate could offer me all the jewels in the > > > world, and I would not be tempted to walk away from Athena because by > > > discarding those values, I would be destroying a core part of my self. > > > validity of my savoir being killed for my sins, then I feel quite at > > liberty to question your belief that Zeus came in the form of a goat > > to have sex with a human and breed a superwarrior. > > I did not say I believed in the myths, did I? I said I believed > in the Values. Myths are myths, just like Genesis, with it's dozen > interpretations, etc. > > > You're not contrasting this at all, you're trying to drag the > > conversation away from a point that you can't defend. > > I thought that is what you keep doing when you put words into Bush's > and my mouths. > > We are not debating what words he used, we are debating whether it > is good to introduce, show, review, intelligent design in science class. > > > > Our founding fathers used religion as the core of their argument to > > > the right to become independent. They stood up for this belief, risking > > > EVERYTHING including their own lives! And many did die because of this > > > RELIGIOUS BASED belief! > > > > Actually, they didn't like being taxed. > > Did the constitution say that? Did the Declaration of Independence > say that? > > > Omniscient: All knowing, you know everything about everything. > > Prescient: Able to predict the future. > > Knowing everything about everything includes knowing the future of > everything. At least that is the way I understood it, because the more > you know, the more you know what will happen. > > > I know quite a bit about artificial intelligence. While I could place > > As do I. The limitation is the imagination and willingness of > people to use it. > > ... > > That's not how evolution works though. Evolution involves killing off > > old stuff to make way for better new stuff. > > So? So it takes a few thousand years. > > > > "These principles apply not only to the evolution of The Church, > > > but als so to the evolution of life itself." > > > > The problem with that argument is that it isn't a terribly valid one. > > SO run a few thousand computer simulations. You'll see how it is. > > > > I guess we are not going to convince each other. Does this mean we > > > are obstinate, we are not using good enough arguments, or that our > > > ability to debate is not up to par with what is needed? > > >=20 > > > Shall we continue practicing? Or call it a day? > > >=20 > > > I for one, enjoy the thoughts that good debate turns up, sometimes > > > far more than the debate itself. Hey, this beats answering a bunch of > > > health questions in another forum. > > > > Oh, it's fun and all, but it really is eating up quite a bit of time.=20 > > I have research to be completing. > > Agreed. > > > 1) You think that Intelligent Design should be taught in public schools. > > Taught as an opinion some people have. And used to encourage > questions when we hit facts. > > > 2) You think that the scientific community is afraid of this, because > > it their theories could not stand up against Intelligent Design. > > That I did not say. I said the Intelligent Design crowd would get > slaughtered, and the kids would learn something in the process. > > > 3) You think that Intelligent Design is accurate, and that Science > > can't disprove it. > > I never, ever even implied that! > > > 4) You think that Intelligent Design is inaccurate, and that science > > should be used to dismantle it. > > Actually, not. I said that it could be used as a good contrast to > scientific thought, and thus be a good teaching / waking aid. > > > 5) You think that Intelligent Design should be used to contrast real > > science against. > > Yes. > > > 6) You think that scientists are afraid to discuss Intelligent Design > > No. > > > 7) You think that scientists are unaccepting of Intelligent Design > > Yes. > > > A recurring thread in your argument is that you feel that a high > > school science class is a place to debate scientific theories that > > have not yet even been debated or accepted by the scientific > > community. Central to what I am trying to convey to you, is the the > > scientific community has places for open debate, but it isn't high > > school science classes. > > We learn debate in school. Not only that, we learn the validity of > debate and the applicability of methods of thought in school. > > My teachers liked to present contradictory information, then get us > to think about it. THAT encourages thought and debate. And in that, > the class usually turned to me. And I tended to keep my mouth shut to > encourage them to think. > > > Also of note, you have vacillated on many points in your argument.=20 > > You have also drug the argument away from the core point. I feel that > > the reason that you do this is because your core point is not > > defensible. > > I think you do not grasp the applicability of the side argument as > part of the main argument. > > -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk > --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- > --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 19:05:37 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 19:05:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 09:57:26 PM Message-ID: <20050812020537.15527.qmail@mall-net.com> > > I'm sorry. This discussion is taking way too much of my time. I had > intended to spend 8 hours today working on my research, between > answering posts in forums, and a couple things that came up today, I > just don't have the time to continue this conversation. Same here. But it's so addictive discussing things with someone who's intelligent!!! (As you clearly are, even if we do disagree.) > It's safe to say that we definately disagree, and we're beginning to > just run each other into the ground. Yes. > On that same note, this list sincerely, generally, dissapoints me.=20 > I'll just stay on a couple more days to see what reactions are, and > then discontinue my membership. Aw. come on now! I didn't beat you up that badly, did I? We need bright guys like you here!!! -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 19:12:54 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 19:13:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <20050812020537.15527.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050812020537.15527.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: Eh, ok. Perhaps I'm just frustrated because of a tangent matter with an old friend that also sucked up a couple hours. Justin From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 19:26:51 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 19:26:56 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 09:49:22 PM Message-ID: <20050812022651.29141.qmail@mall-net.com> > Ok. My premise is that we should keep creationism out of schools, but > I'm ok with christianity. You want creationism in schools, and have a > distaste for christianity. Only for those who need to look at the reality that God Wrought. I have many Christian and Jewish friends. They all think, and none of them really buys creationism. > > Those who wish to bring it to the slaughterhouse know not what they > > do. Not all are so stupid. But if the stupid wish... so be it! > > Dude. You accept greek mythology as faith. I do not wish to drag > this conversation into the mud, but just think of the angles that I > could attack greek mythology from. You missed my point about Athena. I say again, it's not the myths, it's the VALUES. I care for myths only as a gossamer pattern suggesting what might have been, much distorted by time. (I suspect she was a survivor of the flood in the Marmara basin predating the Black Sea flood, which some call the Noah Flood. She, or multiple survivors, would then have spread their knowledge ahead of those coming from the Noah flood. A plausible explanation of some of the myths.) > > What have I said that calls your religion (as opposed to some > > practitioners) stupid? > > Some of it's practitioners are fine. Some of them are stupid. Agreed. Does not say anything about the religion, which has both good and bad values. > > Ah! Put forth THEORIES. Well, Intelligent Design is a theory. > > Not, perhaps, a very good one, but not all our specimens are very good > > after they have been sitting in formalin, etc. So let us attend the > > disection! > > FIne, do you understand how you submit a scientific theory? You > publish it in a journal or a conference. High school classrooms > aren't a valid venue for this. I am sure they have conferences and journals loaded with their theory. This theory goes to the people, not the scientific community. So let the people judge. If that's what these people want, let the world see it, and benefit by the thoughts and discussion which follow. > > Oh, so to use your methods of argument, should I now accuse you of > > justifying the torture because it was scientifically useful? > > I didn't justify it. You were attacking science as being a tool of > the Nazis. What I'm telling you is, those camps were death camps, not No. I was attacking the way the Nazis USED science without faith or compassion. Which is EXACTLY why I believe the teaching of science should be a little wider than Book 3 says A. Whilst Feynman says science is the belief in the ignorance of experts, I say that science is also a a demonstration of the faith scientists have in the intelligence of humanity at large and in the future. Else why publish! > > Really? I thought Hitler had a good Eugenics program, and based > > most of his rhethoric on the genetic superiority of the Arian race. > > Same for the Japanese as they marched trying to take over their part of > > the world. > > I'm not sure that anybody can call Eugenics good. I am sure that you > couldn't call Hitler a great scientist. Perhaps I should have used a different word, like Strong. Hitler was a... strong public speaker. I'm not even sure he was as skilled at propaganda as others whom he employed. Some said he was a bit daft, and relied upon his staff a bit much, etc. Astrologers, even. (Well, some kind of funny advisers.) > > Or maybe some Neo-Hitlerian jackass tries to take over the world, and > > succeeds in his great inbreeding program which brings about the > > destruction of the human genome. > > Well, as long as we're firmly grounded in fantasy. Perhaps the > CareBears could become evil, and give us the CareBearEvilEye. I can name a few neo-hitlerian types seeking the job of world leader even today, and I am sure there are and will be others. Can you name a few evil carebears? Whatever. good discussion, even if not always on track. Glad to have it with you; wish others besides Mike would have chimed in on either side. I mean after all, we are supposed to be a little bit mad, no? -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 19:35:11 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 19:35:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <20050812022651.29141.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050812022651.29141.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: > I mean after all, we are supposed to be a little bit mad, no? We'll see after I finish my robotic army. *evil cackling* -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 19:43:54 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 19:43:58 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 11, 2005 10:35:11 PM Message-ID: <20050812024354.40169.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > I mean after all, we are supposed to be a little bit mad, no? > > We'll see after I finish my robotic army. *evil cackling* Laughing! -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From mbest at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 11 20:53:28 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Thu Aug 11 20:53:39 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00f901c59ef1$66a84d60$6501a8c0@mikey> > Suffice to say, I would appreciate two things. The first is a certain > level of decorum. The second is a certain level of willingness to > stick with a strong, core argument when entering into a discussion > with me. So far, neither you nor Javlik seem to be able to adhere to > either. May I humbly suggest a look in the mirror? -MB From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 21:01:04 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 21:01:08 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <00f901c59ef1$66a84d60$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <00f901c59ef1$66a84d60$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: On 8/11/05, Michael Best wrote: > > Suffice to say, I would appreciate two things. The first is a certain > > level of decorum. The second is a certain level of willingness to > > stick with a strong, core argument when entering into a discussion > > with me. So far, neither you nor Javlik seem to be able to adhere to > > either. > > May I humbly suggest a look in the mirror? You make this statement, but you have nothing to back it. I can walk away from this argument if you can, but I never back down from someone who challenges me. > -MB > > -- Justin W. Hart From justinhart at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 21:20:38 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Thu Aug 11 21:20:45 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Stirling Engine Message-ID: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/08/12/0047242&tid=232&tid=137 -- Justin W. Hart From mbest at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 11 21:25:40 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Thu Aug 11 21:25:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] More Big Brother Message-ID: <00ff01c59ef5$e629ea90$6501a8c0@mikey> Now where would we be today had we had laptops in high school, with the admin password taped to the back? UNDER the jail? Sheesh! These kids are doing right! It's the fracking school IT department that needs to be in the hoosegow! This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our educational system today- they desire to teach students WHAT to think, not HOW to learn. -MB Students Charged With Computer Trespass Aug 10, 9:51 AM (ET) By MICHAEL RUBINKAM KUTZTOWN, Pa. (AP) - They're being called the Kutztown 13 - a group of high schoolers charged with felonies for bypassing security with school-issued laptops, downloading forbidden Internet goodies and using monitoring software to spy on district administrators. The students, their families and outraged supporters say authorities are overreacting, punishing the kids not for any heinous behavior - no malicious acts are alleged - but rather because they outsmarted the district's technology workers. The trouble began last fall after the district issued some 600 Apple iBook laptops to every student at the high school about 50 miles northwest of Philadelphia. The computers were loaded with a filtering program that limited Internet access. They also had software that let administrators see what students were viewing on their screens. But those barriers proved easily surmountable: The administrative password that allowed students to reconfigure computers and obtain unrestricted Internet access was easy to obtain. A shortened version of the school's street address, the password was taped to the backs of the computers. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050810/D8BT0CKG2.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 11 21:39:08 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Thu Aug 11 21:39:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion Message-ID: <010001c59ef7$c7466fc0$6501a8c0@mikey> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 02:43:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Justin Hart > > I mean after all, we are supposed to be a little bit mad, no? > > We'll see after I finish my robotic army. *evil cackling* I completed mine last year. -MB From mbest at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 11 21:47:31 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Thu Aug 11 21:47:37 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] (no subject) Message-ID: <010101c59ef8$f34d13c0$6501a8c0@mikey> Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:01:04 -0400 From: Justin Hart On 8/11/05, Michael Best wrote: > > > Suffice to say, I would appreciate two things. The first is a > > > certain level of decorum. The second is a certain level of > > > willingness to stick with a strong, core argument when entering into > > > a discussion with me. So far, neither you nor Javlik seem to be > > > able to adhere to either. > > May I humbly suggest a look in the mirror? > You make this statement, but you have nothing to back it. > I can walk away from this argument if you can, but I never back down from someone who challenges me. Well, this is a case of violent agreement. We agree on the central tenets: We are both Christians, and "intelligent design" is not a proper curriculum for grade school science class. I will agree to disagree on the rest, and table the discussion. I've a wicked migraine now, and can hardly type, much less think. But please accept my apology if I have unintentionally offended you. I do appreciate your discourse, and desire it to continue. -Mike From clydelofton at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 23:43:53 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Thu Aug 11 23:44:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] More Big Brother In-Reply-To: <00ff01c59ef5$e629ea90$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050812064354.61695.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> FUCK THE COMMUNIST PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM/S, COMMUNIST EMINENT DOMAIN, OVERTAXTION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, ETC.... Michael Best wrote: Now where would we be today had we had laptops in high school, with the admin password taped to the back? UNDER the jail? Sheesh! These kids are doing right! It's the fracking school IT department that needs to be in the hoosegow! This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our educational system today- they desire to teach students WHAT to think, not HOW to learn. -MB Students Charged With Computer Trespass Aug 10, 9:51 AM (ET) By MICHAEL RUBINKAM KUTZTOWN, Pa. (AP) - They're being called the Kutztown 13 - a group of high schoolers charged with felonies for bypassing security with school-issued laptops, downloading forbidden Internet goodies and using monitoring software to spy on district administrators. The students, their families and outraged supporters say authorities are overreacting, punishing the kids not for any heinous behavior - no malicious acts are alleged - but rather because they outsmarted the district's technology workers. The trouble began last fall after the district issued some 600 Apple iBook laptops to every student at the high school about 50 miles northwest of Philadelphia. The computers were loaded with a filtering program that limited Internet access. They also had software that let administrators see what students were viewing on their screens. But those barriers proved easily surmountable: The administrative password that allowed students to reconfigure computers and obtain unrestricted Internet access was easy to obtain. A shortened version of the school's street address, the password was taped to the backs of the computers. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050810/D8BT0CKG2.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050811/7c3abd3a/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 11 23:45:42 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 11 23:45:49 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: More Big Brother In-Reply-To: <00ff01c59ef5$e629ea90$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 12, 2005 12:25:40 AM Message-ID: <20050812064542.82711.qmail@mall-net.com> > Now where would we be today had we had laptops in high school, with the > admin password taped to the back? > > UNDER the jail? > > Sheesh! These kids are doing right! It's the fracking school IT = > department that needs to be in the hoosegow! Yep! > This is a perfect example of what is wrong with our educational system > today- they desire to teach students WHAT to think, not HOW to learn. > > -MB > Students Charged With Computer Trespass > Aug 10, 9:51 AM (ET) > By MICHAEL RUBINKAM=20 > > KUTZTOWN, Pa. (AP) - They're being called the Kutztown 13 - a group of = > high schoolers charged with felonies for bypassing security with = > school-issued > laptops, downloading forbidden Internet goodies and using monitoring > software to spy on district administrators.=20 Lezze now. I give you a loaded 45, show him how you shoot on the school firing range, tell you not to to use it, and what? Arrest your 12 year old hide when you shoot it off on the school's firing range??? Why the heck did you give it to them in the first place if not to learn to shoot??? Gads, what do these morons think... Oh! I get it, they are a product of the school they are employed by. Probably by way of the phone company, which is known for hiring... what kind of IQ people??? (SBC solved their loss of trained internet people by stopping their internet training classes. Our first DSL installer in 2000 said there were 107 people in his class, five passed, and the top three of them promptly left for industry. Two years later, our second DSL installer was utterly ignorant in what they are doing! _I_ had to teach him what to do!!! And he thanked me!!! _I_ paid the phone company to train their employee??? And now people pay me to listen to blatant lies of their mumbling Munbai Indians as they tell me it's my equipment that's not working? When our pings stop in their network layers before our equipment??? Yea, this school must have hired some of those idiots!) You know something, I'd think the kids were mentally deficient if the DID NOT try to circumvent this stuff!!! Kids NEED TO EXPLORE! The most important thing any education system can do, is to FEED CURIOSITY, not teach discipline. Because curiosity, in addition to boosting IQ and all that stuff, teaches the kids to discipline themselves, trading off time vs other things so as to do what they want to do. And when they learn that kind of discipline, THEY CAN NOT BE STOPPED! Not by money, not by time, and certainly not by enemy bullets! That's the kind of people who lead in just about all the technical revolutions on this planet! And yes, that's exactly the kind of idiots a school, A CULTURE that discourages exploration and debate produces! -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From mbest at triad.rr.com Fri Aug 12 00:45:10 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Fri Aug 12 00:45:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] RE: More Big Brother In-Reply-To: <20050812064542.82711.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <010e01c59f11$c48cf640$6501a8c0@mikey> > Gads, what do these morons think... You give them too much credit, Javilk. I doubt they think. Knees jerk perhaps; and it may appear that the lights are on, but no one is at home. Or to put it another way, a few French fries short of a Happy Meal. And most wonder why Japan and China have better educational systems than the USA. I think it started with Brown v Board of Education. -MB From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 09:14:56 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 09:15:09 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Weblink. Message-ID: <20050812161456.93565.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.deceptiondollar.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/119dc803/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 09:38:55 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 09:39:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] VITAMIN CHART WEBLINKS. In-Reply-To: <20050709132607.34340.qmail@web52815.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050812163855.253.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> 1. http://www.a-nutritional-supplements.com/vitamin.htm 2. http://kidshealth.org/teen/misc/vitamin_chart.html 3. http://wellnesswallcharts.com/vitamin.html 4. http://www.eas.com/training/vitaminchart.asp 5. http://www.changingshape.com/resources/references/vmchart.asp 6. http://www.ccsu.edu/healthservice/vitamin_chart.htm 7. http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/vitchart.htm 8. http://www.katking.com/Wisdom/Vitamin.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/e87bea9b/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 09:40:51 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 09:41:12 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Weblink. In-Reply-To: <20050812161456.93565.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 12, 2005 09:14:56 AM Message-ID: <20050812164051.79925.qmail@mall-net.com> deceptiondollar.com Conspiracy wackos. We need stuff that's more inspirational than de-spirational! -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 10:18:01 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 10:18:08 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] VITAMIN CHART WEBLINKS. In-Reply-To: <20050812163855.253.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 12, 2005 09:38:55 AM Message-ID: <20050812171801.2300.qmail@mall-net.com> When good doctors go rad: http://www.orthomed.com/ I'll vote for $7, even though it's not that great. Nothing much: > 1. http://www.a-nutritional-supplements.com/vitamin.htm > 2. http://kidshealth.org/teen/misc/vitamin_chart.html > 3. http://wellnesswallcharts.com/vitamin.html > 4. http://www.eas.com/training/vitaminchart.asp 5. This does not look that bad. > 5. http://www.changingshape.com/resources/references/vmchart.asp 6. I wouldn't trust these guys with my tax dollars, nevermind my food! Thought that was some 35 years ago. They are a small college in Connecticut, never known for much, always mooching off our computer center in the late 60's and early 70's. > 6. http://www.ccsu.edu/healthservice/vitamin_chart.htm 7. Interesting, though they miss vitamin C dosage, using the standard FDA bull crap. C dosage is based on the needs of your body. It is used to repair collagen, produce adrenaline, red blood cells, and many other things; so when you are injured or under stress, your needs will skyrocket! Finding your dosage needs: http://www.mall-net.com/cathcart/titrate.html Base dose 60mg, but needs in severe illness can drive dosage up to 300 GRAMS, that's 300,000 mg Not a bad chart, decent web work. > 7. http://www.healthalternatives2000.com/vitchart.htm 8. Invisible, fails the web test. > 8. http://www.katking.com/Wisdom/Vitamin.html -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 15:25:43 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 15:26:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050812171801.2300.qmail@mall-net.com> from "javilk@mall-net.com" at Aug 12, 2005 05:18:01 PM Message-ID: <20050812222543.60601.qmail@mall-net.com> Cold Fusion, acoustic Fusion, and getting published... Science is like any other organization, not very appreciative of guys who thow bricks at their cherished paradigms. http://www.newstarget.com/010696.html http://www.newstarget.com/000961.html I know one of you guys on this list is trying to get acceptance as having disproven quantum theory. Care to tell us about your experiences? -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 16:57:30 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 16:57:38 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] IMPEACHMENT! Message-ID: <20050812235730.51753.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> IMPEACH THE CLINTONS AND THE BUSHES ALIKE; LET'S START THIS COUNTRY ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. CLYDE LOFTON __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/b0e0c37f/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 17:39:50 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 17:39:54 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Another weblink. Message-ID: <20050813003950.4793.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> http://www.weatherwars.info/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/644d24fc/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 18:21:07 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 18:21:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Another weblink. In-Reply-To: <20050813003950.4793.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 12, 2005 05:39:50 PM Message-ID: <20050813012107.46198.qmail@mall-net.com> > http://www.weatherwars.info/ The usual hogwash with no real evidence. "Gee, we get all these trails in the sky" and "we've talked about clouds and weather". So? Who's got the budget??? It's not going to be small, and the number of people involved won't be small either! So unless you plan to start shooting anyone who retires or leaves the program, you're not going to keep the lid on it. And oh yes, shooting people will make it a heck of a lot more difficult to keep any kind of lid on it, nevermind recruiting more participants. So it's pure hogwash by people who just don't have a clue! When did I start seeing these kind of trails in the sky? When the airlines started switching from prop driven aircraft to jet aircraft. That was when I was a kid. Today, up here in the mountains where I have a broad view of the world, I see all kinds of interesting weather phenomenon and how atmospheric conditions interact with clouds and the condensation trails left by jet aircraft. The clouds and the contrails seem to both follow the same rules. As they should, because the are both condensation phenomenon. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 18:30:42 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 18:30:47 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050812222543.60601.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050813013042.82219.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> DAMN, DAMN, GOOD STUFF!!!! THANK FOR SPREADING THESE EXCELLENT WEBLINKS, TO SHARE. IF YOU HAVE SEEN THE MOVIE: CHAIN REACTION; THAT MOVIE HAS BEEN ONE OF MY MOST FAVORITES, OF THE SCI-FI GENRE. I'VE WANTED TO BUILD MY OWN ACOUSTIC FUSION BUBBLER IN A JAR, FOR A HELL OF A GODDAMNED LONG TIME NOW. FINANCIAL IMPEDENCE STANDS IN MY WAY, AND IN ALL OF OUR WAYS. I WISH WE COULD ALL BLAST THE FUCKING I.R.S., AND INTERNATIONAL BANKING SYSTEM FOR SCREWING US ALL, EQUALLY, FINANCIALLY. CLYDE javilk@mall-net.com wrote: Cold Fusion, acoustic Fusion, and getting published... Science is like any other organization, not very appreciative of guys who thow bricks at their cherished paradigms. http://www.newstarget.com/010696.html http://www.newstarget.com/000961.html I know one of you guys on this list is trying to get acceptance as having disproven quantum theory. Care to tell us about your experiences? -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/a1d9ec8e/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 18:40:38 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 18:40:40 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050813013042.82219.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 12, 2005 06:30:42 PM Message-ID: <20050813014038.58106.qmail@mall-net.com> > DAMN, DAMN, GOOD STUFF!!!! > THANK FOR SPREADING THESE > EXCELLENT WEBLINKS, TO > SHARE. You are welcome. > I WISH WE COULD ALL BLAST > THE FUCKING I.R.S., AND > INTERNATIONAL BANKING > SYSTEM FOR SCREWING US ALL, > EQUALLY, FINANCIALLY. I think it's more the Arabs who are screwing us these days; them and the Chinese, who are now demanding more oil to fuel their growing industries. Our government just didn't do any strategic planning in that regard! We really should have kept the Chinese from developing that oil-thirsty industrial base. Our only real hope now, is to get on the methane clathrate kick and start extracting our fuel that way. > http://www.newstarget.com/010696.html > http://www.newstarget.com/000961.html -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 18:44:33 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 18:44:38 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Another weblink. In-Reply-To: <20050813012107.46198.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050813014433.50447.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > http://www.weatherwars.info/ The usual hogwash with no real evidence. "Gee, we get all these trails in the sky" and "we've talked about clouds and weather". So? Who's got the budget??? It's not going to be small, and the number of people involved won't be small either! So unless you plan to start shooting anyone who retires or leaves the program, you're not going to keep the lid on it. And oh yes, shooting people will make it a heck of a lot more difficult to keep any kind of lid on it, nevermind recruiting more participants. So it's pure hogwash by people who just don't have a clue! When did I start seeing these kind of trails in the sky? When the airlines started switching from prop driven aircraft to jet aircraft. That was when I was a kid. Today, up here in the mountains where I have a broad view of the world, I see all kinds of interesting weather phenomenon and how atmospheric conditions interact with clouds and the condensation trails left by jet aircraft. The clouds and the contrails seem to both follow the same rules. As they should, because the are both condensation phenomenon. HOGWASH AS FAR AS CHEMTRAILS AND CONTRAILS ARE CONCERNED, AND THE SEEDING OF CLOUDS CAUSING MAJOR WEATHER EFFECTS, BUT: POISONING THE SKIES WITH DISEASE THOUGH, OVER CITIES; I DO WONDER; AND WHAT IS THE POSSIBILTY OF MANMADE NUCLEAR WEATHER CONTROL? THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I SERIOUSLY QUESTION. THOUGH THERE IS REALLY NOTHING THAT I, OR ANY OTHER CIVILAN CAN REALLY DO ABOUT IT, IF IT INDEED GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/46441134/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 18:52:31 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 18:52:39 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050813014038.58106.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050813015231.19759.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > DAMN, DAMN, GOOD STUFF!!!! > THANK FOR SPREADING THESE > EXCELLENT WEBLINKS, TO > SHARE. You are welcome. > I WISH WE COULD ALL BLAST > THE FUCKING I.R.S., AND > INTERNATIONAL BANKING > SYSTEM FOR SCREWING US ALL, > EQUALLY, FINANCIALLY. I think it's more the Arabs who are screwing us these days; them and the Chinese, who are now demanding more oil to fuel their growing industries. YEAH; THE COMMUNIST CRAP, WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT, GARBAGE PRODUCING CHEAP CHINESE. Our government just didn't do any strategic planning in that regard! YEAH; WE SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN CHINA SPECIFIC TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE AND DEVELOPMENT, AND THEN HAVE GOTTEN THE GOD DAMNED HELL OUT OF THAT WORTHLESS SHIT COUNTRY. We really should have kept the Chinese from developing that oil-thirsty industrial base. I'M JUST SICK OF OIL. Our only real hope now, is to get on the methane clathrate kick and start extracting our fuel that way. I HOPE SO! AND 'MANY' OTHER SUPPRESSED AND CENSORED PROMISING ESOTERIC ALTERNATIVE ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES EQUALLY AS WELL. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/2a30f6c0/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 19:42:07 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 19:42:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050813015231.19759.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 12, 2005 06:52:31 PM Message-ID: <20050813024207.1531.qmail@mall-net.com> > > I WISH WE COULD ALL BLAST > > THE FUCKING I.R.S., AND > > INTERNATIONAL BANKING > > SYSTEM FOR SCREWING US ALL, > > EQUALLY, FINANCIALLY. > > I think it's more the Arabs who are screwing us these days; them and > the Chinese, who are now demanding more oil to fuel their growing > industries. > > > YEAH; THE COMMUNIST CRAP, WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT, > GARBAGE PRODUCING CHEAP CHINESE. At the moment, they do produce cheap, not very good products. Japan, in the early 50's, was about the same. By the mid 60's, their products were fairly good. Today, their products are better than ours. We can expect the same to happen with Chinese goods in the next ten years. Meanwhile, our manufacturing and management skill base and facilities are eroding as goods are being manufactured by others coming up that learning curve. > Our government just didn't do any strategic planning in that > regard! > > YEAH; WE SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN CHINA SPECIFIC > TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE AND DEVELOPMENT, AND > THEN HAVE GOTTEN THE GOD DAMNED HELL OUT OF > THAT WORTHLESS SHIT COUNTRY. It would likely have been better not to give them any technical knowledge. > We really should have kept the Chinese from developing that > oil-thirsty industrial base. > > I'M JUST SICK OF OIL. Well, without oil, our industrial base will collapse. > Our only real hope now, is to get on the methane clathrate kick and > start extracting our fuel that way. > > I HOPE SO! > AND 'MANY' OTHER SUPPRESSED AND CENSORED PROMISING > ESOTERIC ALTERNATIVE ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES EQUALLY > AS WELL. There are not many things which produce as much energy with as little technology as oil. People are scared of nuclear power. So that's kind of out, whether it is fission or fusion. Fusion we've not even come close to break even yet. Wind energy is under fire for dead birds. It's also unsightly and highly expensive. So that's not advancing very well. And in most parts of the country, we don't have steady winds. Solar is expensive too, taking about 6 - 12 years to pay back and involving the recycling of a lot of very poisonous lead for batteries. The big plus on solar is small scale and private investments; which keeps it out of the industrial funding competition arena. Hydroelectric, we've kind of tapped already. Also hugely expensive, both for the structures and the real estate. One possibility with hydroelectric is to moor floating paddle-wheel generators on our flat rivers. But with floods, etc. come problems. Still, that is an area we ought to seriously investigate. Paddle-wheel electric has scale problems. By the time you reach a flat flowing river of any real size, it's not private property, so all kinds of permits and regulations apply -- one has to lease a huge section of river for this, build a transformer station, and shove it into the power grid. This scale is not for the small entrepreneur anymore. Though... it might be possible to create something for the middle level entrepreneur; kind of like the wind power leases. Some of those wind power deals were more tax shelters than revenue sources; that means laws passed to give tax loopholes and credits. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 20:55:46 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 12 20:55:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050813024207.1531.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050813035546.7020.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> > YEAH; WE SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN CHINA SPECIFIC > TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE AND DEVELOPMENT, AND > THEN HAVE GOTTEN THE GOD DAMNED HELL OUT OF > THAT WORTHLESS SHIT COUNTRY. It would likely have been better not to give them any technical knowledge. WHAT WOULD ANOTHER OPTION HAVE BEEN??? ANY OTHER OPTIONS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FAR BETTER, THAN THE SHIT MESS THAT WE ARE NOW IN, WITH WORTHLESS GARBAGE JUNK CHINA??? > We really should have kept the Chinese from developing that > oil-thirsty industrial base. > > I'M JUST SICK OF OIL. Well, without oil, our industrial base will collapse. I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO KNOW IF THERE IS A PERFECT AND CLEAN POWERFUL ALTERNATIVE TO PETROLEUM. NUCLEAR DOESN'T COUNT. AND HYDROGEN IS WEAK, BUT HAS VERY GOOD HOPE FOR THE FUTURE, FOR NON-SUPER POWER EQUIPMENT, LIKE CONVENTIONAL AUTOMOBILES, AND CONVENTIONAL TRANSPORTATION WAYS AND MEANS. MAYBE OIL WILL ALWAYS BE REQUIRED, FOR THE BULLDOZERS, AND OTHER MAJOR HEAVY CONSTRUCTION AND DESTRUCTION EQUIPMENT. THERE WAS A NEWS REPORT A LITTLE WHILE EARLIER, ABOUT A LOCAL TULSA BUSINESS, DEVELOPING A CLEAN BURNING ALTERNATIVE FORM OF DIESEL. BUT I DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING ABOUT IT, FROM THE NEWS REPORT; JUST LEARNED OF ITS EXISTANCE. IT LOOKS LIKE A DAMN GOOD, AND PROMISING TECHNICAL ALTERNATIVE THOUGH, AND I WANT IT TO WORK OUT; BECAUSE I AM SICK OF THE CEASELESS SMOG, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUM. > Our only real hope now, is to get on the methane clathrate kick and > start extracting our fuel that way. > > I HOPE SO! > AND 'MANY' OTHER SUPPRESSED AND CENSORED PROMISING > ESOTERIC ALTERNATIVE ENERGY TECHNOLOGIES EQUALLY > AS WELL. There are not many things which produce as much energy with as little technology as oil. People are scared of nuclear power. So that's kind of out, whether it is fission or fusion. Fusion we've not even come close to break even yet. I DO LIKE THE POTENTIALS IN BUBBLER STYLE, ACOUSTIC FUSION, FOR LOW POWER PRODUCTION OF FIRE / HEAT. Wind energy is under fire for dead birds. It's also unsightly and highly expensive. WIND ENERGY ISN'T UNSIGHTLY TO A TECHNICAL MINDED PERSON LIKE ME. HELL; THE FUCKING ELECTRIC POWER GRID IS SO MUCH MORE GODDAMNED UNSIGHTLY THAN ARE, WIND TURBINES. So that's not advancing very well. And in most parts of the country, we don't have steady winds. Solar is expensive too, taking about 6 - 12 years to pay back and involving the recycling of a lot of very poisonous lead for batteries. WE NEED NUCLEAR BATTERIES! I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE NUCLEAR PORTION, BUT WE DO NEED MICRO NUCLEAR BATTERIES. The big plus on solar is small scale and private investments; which keeps it out of the industrial funding competition arena. I'VE NEVER CARED MUCH FOR SOLAR, DUE TO ITS INEFFICIENCY, WITH ITS PRESENT DESIGN; THE FLAT PANELS. TOO BAD WE CAN'T HAVE FAIRLY CHEAPLY MASS SCALE PRODUCED, MIRRORED SOLAR REFLECTOR DISHES, FOR COMBINED USE WITH THREE DIMENSIONAL CUT SILICA, FOR LARGER OUTPUT, OF MORE ELECTRICAL POWER. Hydroelectric, we've kind of tapped already. Also hugely expensive, both for the structures and the real estate. I'VE ALWAYS LIKED HYDROELECTRIC POWER. I LIKE WIND POWER TOO, BUT DON'T LIKE THE FACT THAT WIND ENERGY DOESN'T OPERATE 100% CONTINUOUS DUTY CYCLE; 24/7. One possibility with hydroelectric is to moor floating paddle-wheel generators on our flat rivers. But with floods, etc. come problems. Still, that is an area we ought to seriously investigate. I LIKE THE IDEA / CONCEPT. I ALSO LIKE THE BUOY GENERATORS THAT THE MILITARY ARE EXPERIMENTING WITH, AT COASTLINES. Paddle-wheel electric has scale problems. By the time you reach a flat flowing river of any real size, it's not private property, so all kinds of permits and regulations apply -- one has to lease a huge section of river for this, build a transformer station, and shove it into the power grid. This scale is not for the small entrepreneur anymore. Though... it might be possible to create something for the middle level entrepreneur; kind of like the wind power leases. Some of those wind power deals were more tax shelters than revenue sources; that means laws passed to give tax loopholes and credits. I LOOKED INTO MICROTURBINES THERE FOR A WHILE, BEFORE I STARTED MY MEMBERSHIP ON THE MAD SCIENTISTS LIST. CAPSTONE MICROTURBINES, AND INGERSOLL RAND MICROTURBINES; TOO DAMNED EXPENSIVE THOUGH, FOR MY MAJORLY LIMITED MONEY BUDGET. POWER MEMS ARE A BIG INTEREST TOO. I WANT REDUNDANT, GAS, POWER MEMS, TO OPERATE 24/7, FOR MY OWN MICRO POWER PLANT, AND I WANT THEM RIGHT NOW! I'M TIRED AND NEED TO GET SOME REST. GONNA GO FOR NOW. I'LL REPLY BACK TOMORROW. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050812/eef50219/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 12 23:10:01 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 12 23:10:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050813035546.7020.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 12, 2005 08:55:46 PM Message-ID: <20050813061001.17190.qmail@mall-net.com> link is acting up, so sending w/o full spell check. > > YEAH; WE SHOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN CHINA SPECIFIC > > TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE AND DEVELOPMENT, AND > > THEN HAVE GOTTEN THE GOD DAMNED HELL OUT OF > > THAT WORTHLESS SHIT COUNTRY. > > It would likely have been better not to give them any technical > knowledge. > > WHAT WOULD ANOTHER OPTION HAVE BEEN??? > > ANY OTHER OPTIONS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN FAR > BETTER, THAN THE SHIT MESS THAT WE ARE NOW IN, > WITH WORTHLESS GARBAGE JUNK CHINA??? This is just a guess. Many will argue both ways on some of these issues. And have! Not doing business with them. Keep them boycotted as they are communists. NUmber one -- Only do business with Democracies. Or, high tarrifs for non-democracies. High enough tarrifs so that our core industries remain here. That means make sure we don' have to buy our brass shell casings, or the full bullets from China!!! Because when China starts a war with us... we are going to have to instantly restart the manufacture of brass shell casings, bullets, guns, EVERYTHING in order to fight a war! And it isn't just the war materiel, not by a long shot. We need the technical skills and managerial skills that an industrial base teaches its employees. "Naked US soldiers fight Chinese with fixed bayonettes!" > I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO KNOW IF THERE IS A PERFECT > AND CLEAN POWERFUL ALTERNATIVE TO PETROLEUM. > NUCLEAR DOESN'T COUNT. I don't know either. > AND HYDROGEN IS WEAK, BUT HAS VERY GOOD HOPE Hydrogen is a transport medium, that's all. You have to get the energy to split it from water or methane. And it is not as dense as gasoline, so it is harder to transport. The only hope, is generation at the home. > FOR THE FUTURE, FOR NON-SUPER POWER EQUIPMENT, > LIKE CONVENTIONAL AUTOMOBILES, AND CONVENTIONAL > TRANSPORTATION WAYS AND MEANS. Automobiles have given us a feeling of freedom which encouraged us to develop things. They have let us have space and large scale industries which need many workers; many of whom would not care to live near some of the factories. Also quite interesting, is the German Journeyman apprentice system, devised to prevent the kind of inbreeding which have left the Amish with a number of genetic diseases. Automobiles solved that problem by helping mix the population. It was no longer the girl next door, whom you were slightly related to. I remember reading about how the University of Connecticut, the old agricultural university, got started, how difficult it was to attract students when they could not drive in. Automobiles made much of that possible. > THERE WAS A NEWS REPORT A LITTLE WHILE EARLIER, > ABOUT A LOCAL TULSA BUSINESS, DEVELOPING A > CLEAN BURNING ALTERNATIVE FORM OF DIESEL. Biodeisel is springing up all over the place. We eat enough french fries and hamburgers that there are oils which can be converted to deisel fuel. > > Our only real hope now, is to get on the methane clathrate kick and > > start extracting our fuel that way. > There are not many things which produce as much energy with as > little technology as oil. We can get some of the methanes to react and form longer chains, like octane. This can be used in existing automobiles. Methane clathrate deposits are estimatted to contain some four times the energy as all known oil deposits. We just have to kick our oil industry in the rear to get them to do anything! > People are scared of nuclear power. So that's kind of out, whether > it is fission or fusion. Fusion we've not even come close to break even > yet. > > I DO LIKE THE POTENTIALS IN BUBBLER STYLE, ACOUSTIC FUSION, > FOR LOW POWER PRODUCTION OF FIRE / HEAT. Well, we don't yet know if we can attain break even, or how much of a multiplier effect we can get. There is some radiation production... > Wind energy is under fire for dead birds. It's also unsightly and > highly expensive. > > WIND ENERGY ISN'T UNSIGHTLY TO A TECHNICAL MINDED > PERSON LIKE ME. > HELL; THE FUCKING ELECTRIC POWER GRID IS SO MUCH > MORE GODDAMNED UNSIGHTLY THAN ARE, WIND TURBINES. But you don't set the rules. Ordinary people start complaining, and industry does not get the permits. And dies. big controversy over offshore wind power near Cape Cod, Mass. > Solar is expensive too, taking about 6 - 12 years to pay back and > involving the recycling of a lot of very poisonous lead for batteries. > > WE NEED NUCLEAR BATTERIES! > I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE NUCLEAR PORTION, BUT > WE DO NEED MICRO NUCLEAR BATTERIES. I'm not quite shure how one would pump energy into nuclear... and the waste would likely be, let's just say worse than lead. > The big plus on solar is small scale and private investments; which > keeps it out of the industrial funding competition arena. > > I'VE NEVER CARED MUCH FOR SOLAR, DUE TO ITS > INEFFICIENCY, WITH ITS PRESENT DESIGN; THE > FLAT PANELS. I'm on solar. I hate it. I have to move the panels three times a day to get decent energy, (and again at night), maintain the battery pile, checking for boiling, etc. and it's Expensive! (But less so than the generators.) > TOO BAD WE CAN'T HAVE FAIRLY CHEAPLY MASS > SCALE PRODUCED, MIRRORED SOLAR > REFLECTOR DISHES, FOR COMBINED USE WITH > THREE DIMENSIONAL CUT SILICA, FOR LARGER > OUTPUT, OF MORE ELECTRICAL POWER. 3d isn't going to produce much. But some new techniques look like they may cut the price of panels... if the demand does not balance it. Others are experimenting with thermo-solar, reflecting enough ilght and infra-red onto a boiler to run a mechanical steam engine. bringing us back to that mechanical sphere of moving pargs so fraught with wear, breakdowns, maintenance, etc. > Hydroelectric, we've kind of tapped already. Also hugely > expensive, both for the structures and the real estate. > > I'VE ALWAYS LIKED HYDROELECTRIC POWER. > I LIKE WIND POWER TOO, BUT DON'T LIKE THE > FACT THAT WIND ENERGY DOESN'T OPERATE > 100% CONTINUOUS DUTY CYCLE; 24/7. > > One possibility with hydroelectric is to moor floating > paddle-wheel generators on our flat rivers. But with floods, etc. come > problems. Still, that is an area we ought to seriously investigate. > > I LIKE THE IDEA / CONCEPT. > I ALSO LIKE THE BUOY GENERATORS THAT THE MILITARY > ARE EXPERIMENTING WITH, AT COASTLINES. Not easy to deal with mechanical problems. > Paddle-wheel electric has scale problems. that means laws passed to give tax loopholes and credits. > > I LOOKED INTO MICROTURBINES THERE FOR A WHILE, BEFORE > I STARTED MY MEMBERSHIP ON THE MAD SCIENTISTS LIST. > CAPSTONE MICROTURBINES, AND INGERSOLL RAND MICROTURBINES; > TOO DAMNED EXPENSIVE THOUGH, FOR MY MAJORLY LIMITED Precision mechanical devices! The gasoline engine is cheap only because it is mass produced. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Fri Aug 12 23:41:48 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Fri Aug 12 23:41:56 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again Message-ID: <001001c59fd2$152ff460$6501a8c0@mikey> On Scientific Research- Maintenance of the status quo in science is little different than it is in politics or religion. Those running the show have a vested interest in the show going on, and continuing in the same manner as has previously enriched them. Whether it be the arrest of Galileo for heresy, the discrediting of cold fusion, or the new prescription medication facet of Medicare, they all derive from the same selfish conservatism. As for education, from where did the term "University" arise? From the Catholic ("universal") Church. The original intent of universities was to teach all knowledge of the universe, as known to be fact by the church leadership. Other ideas need not apply. It was NOT to train thinkers, but to inculcate Church Doctrine in thinkers, so that there would be no "wrong thinking." Orwell got his ideas from somewhere! On contrails- They have been seen even during the days of propeller (air screw) aircraft. Look at any film of high-level bombings from WW2. The B-17 and B-29 bombers flew high enough for their exhaust to condense, producing contrails (condensation trails). These were piston-powered, propeller-driven aircraft, producing contrails. And these bombers were not concerned with distributing chemicals into the stratosphere, their bomb loads allowed for no extra weight for the alleged chemicals! On Government weather modification experiments- Search the Web with your favorite search engine for "Project HAARP," or the "High frequency Active Auroral Research Project. This research started with Nikola Tesla in his Colorado Springs lab. -MB From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 00:09:28 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 00:09:37 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions Message-ID: <001101c59fd5$f249f230$6501a8c0@mikey> It is really quite simple to harness solar energy. Grow corn. Then ferment the biomass, and distill out the alcohol. ALL the carbon in the alcohol comes from atmospheric CO2, fixed by photosynthesis. So burning the alcohol releases the stored solar energy, and simply returns the CO2 to the atmosphere, from whence it came a few months before. No net increase in greenhouse gases. 95% ethanol costs less than a dollar a gallon now. Regular unleaded gasoline is almost twice as expensive. So would someone please explain why in hell the Vested Interests force us to burn fossil fuels, when a 50/50 mix of ethanol and gasoline burns cleaner, with less greenhouse emissions, at lower cost? And I forget- soybeans make nice Diesel fuel! -MB From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 01:17:07 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 01:17:13 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions In-Reply-To: <001101c59fd5$f249f230$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 13, 2005 03:09:28 AM Message-ID: <20050813081707.95235.qmail@mall-net.com> > It is really quite simple to harness solar energy. > Grow corn. Some studies show that growing corn for Gasohol takes 30% more energy than it produces. Which is not all that surprising, given that huge tracts of land needed to be planted to support the horses used to plow the fields... And horses are rather efficient beasts from what I recall. (I may be wrong on that.) > Then ferment the biomass, and distill out the alcohol. ALL the carbon = > in the alcohol comes from atmospheric CO2, fixed by photosynthesis. So = > burning he alcohol releases the stored solar energy, and simply > returns the CO2 to the atmosphere, from whence it came a few months > before. No net increase in greenhouse gases. Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm, returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, though.). > 95% ethanol costs less than a dollar a gallon now. Regular unleaded > gasoline is almost twice as expensive. So would someone please explain = > why > in hell the Vested Interests force us to burn fossil fuels, when a 50/50 = > mix of ethanol and gasoline burns cleaner, with less greenhouse > emissions, at lower cost?=20 Congress subsidizes the corn. > And I forget- soybeans make nice Diesel fuel! And the soybeans, I think. Congress is a pork farm. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 06:42:02 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 06:42:09 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] RE: Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions In-Reply-To: <20050813081707.95235.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <002501c5a00c$ca24fac0$6501a8c0@mikey> > From: javilk@mall-net.com [mailto:javilk@mall-net.com] > Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 4:17 AM > > It is really quite simple to harness solar energy. > > Grow corn. > > Some studies show that growing corn for Gasohol takes 30% more > energy than it produces. Which is not all that surprising, given that Then use kudzu! It requires no energy to grow, and even Roundup won't kill it. > Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm, > returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we > trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the > sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, > though.). So? The CO2 goes back to where it came from. No net increase in atmospheric CO2. > Congress subsidizes the corn. > > > And I forget- soybeans make nice Diesel fuel! > > And the soybeans, I think. > > Congress is a pork farm. YES!! We burn lard! Excellent idea! -MB From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 07:53:22 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 07:53:28 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Interesting! Message-ID: <002d01c5a016$c0d052d0$6501a8c0@mikey> The World Wildlife Fund, a liberal organization, has a nifty site where they map the range of any species you enter. It is at: www.worldwildlife.org/wildfinder Here are their results for my search on species Homo sapiens: "The species you chose, Homo sapiens, is not currently mapped. The reasons for this may include: . The species is largely or wholly marine . Due to human influence the species historical range is unknown . The species is found in captivity . The species is extinct" I suppose the correct answer is C, "The species is found in captivity." Captives of idiots like them! HA! -MB From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 10:09:16 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 10:09:35 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <001001c59fd2$152ff460$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050813170916.19353.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> COOL TOPICS, AND AN EXCELLENT REPLY! On Scientific Research- Maintenance of the status quo in science is little different than it is in politics or religion. Those running the show have a vested interest in the show going on, and continuing in the same manner as has previously enriched them. Whether it be the arrest of Galileo for heresy, the discrediting of cold fusion, or the new prescription medication facet of Medicare, they all derive from the same selfish conservatism. As for education, from where did the term "University" arise? From the Catholic ("universal") Church. MAKES SENSE! I'M GLAD TO NOW KNOW THE LINGUISTIC CORRELATION BETWEEN THE WORDS AND TERMS OF UNIVERSITIES, UNIVERSE, AND UNIVERSAL. The original intent of universities was to teach all knowledge of the universe, as known to be fact by the church leadership. Other ideas need not apply. It was NOT to train thinkers, but to inculcate Church Doctrine in thinkers, so that there would be no "wrong thinking." Orwell got his ideas from somewhere! IT FIGURES THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS LINKED TO IT; TOO BAD THAT THEY SUPPRESS A LOT OF TRUTH FROM WE THE PEOPLE; WE THE MASSES. I'D LIKE TO READ MORE ABOUT ORWELL. I NEED TO LOOK UP SOME TRITE INFORMATION ON ORWELL, ON THE NET. On contrails- They have been seen even during the days of propeller (air screw) aircraft. Look at any film of high-level bombings from WW2. The B-17 and B-29 bombers flew high enough for their exhaust to condense, producing contrails (condensation trails). These were piston-powered, propeller-driven aircraft, producing contrails. And these bombers were not concerned with distributing chemicals into the stratosphere, their bomb loads allowed for no extra weight for the alleged chemicals! HOW ABOUT THE TERM: CHEMTRAILS? POSSIBLE, BUT I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT IT WOULD HOLD TRUE THOUGH, OF THE DELIBERATE POISONING OF OUR ATMOSPHERE, OVER MAJOR SHITTIES (CITIES), WITH PSYCHOTROPIC CHEMICALS, AND LOT'S OF OTHER CHEMICAL GARBAGE AS WELL. ISN'T THE 'UNITED' STATES; (THE U.S. AIR FORCE INCLUDED), NOW FRIENDS WITH COMMUNIST RUSSIA? I THINK THAT THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS NEED'S TO BE INVESTIGATED INTO THE PROMOTION OF INTERNET IMMORALITY, FOR THE PROMOTION OF TERRORISM, AND REGARDING CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY DRUG ADDICTS NOW, TO THE ENDLESS INTERNET PORN, TO EVEN CARE ABOUT IT ENOUGH, TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES FOR THE MORAL BETTERMENT OF THIS NATION. THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE IS AIDING AND ABETTING IN THE MORAL COLLAPSE OF THIS COUNTRY. THEY OWN THE INTERNET. THE GLOBAL ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE; COULD THEY BE USING BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES FOR SINISTER SURVEILLANCE REASONS AS WELL??? On Government weather modification experiments- Search the Web with your favorite search engine for "Project HAARP," or the "High frequency Active Auroral Research Project. This research started with Nikola Tesla in his Colorado Springs lab. I WASN'T AWARE THAT TESLA STARTED THE IDEAS OF HAARP AT COLORADO SPRINGS. I THOUGHT HE WAS ONLY EXPERIMENTING WITH THE FUTURE POSSIBILITES IN THE WIRELESS TRANSMISSION OF ELECTRICAL POWER, USING TUNED RESONANCE AT HIGH VOLTAGE AND HIGH FREQUENCY. HAVE YOU HEARD OR READ ANYTHING, REGARDING RUSSIAN RADIO FREQUENCY WEAPONS, LOW FREQUENCY BRAINWAVE AUDIO RADIO MIND KONTROL, AND LOW FREQUENCY AUDIO RADIO BRAINWAVE FREQUENCY INTERFERENCE, KOMBINED WITH ANY FORCED USE OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, ON YOUTH AND ADULTS ALIKE? AS FAR AS HAARP IS CONCERNED; ALL I THINK THAT I KNOW ABOUT IT, IS THE USE OF AMPLIFIED MICROWAVE ENERGY, FOCUSED AND DIRECTED INTO SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE ATMOSPHERE, TO EFFECT WEATHER PATTERNS. I QUESTION IF THEY COULD BE BUILDING IT INTO A GLOBAL GRIDWORK, IN SIMILAR WAYS TO THE ELECTRICAL POWER UTILITY GRID INFRASTRUCTURE- INTRAFUCKTURE. I RAISE THE QUESTION OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MANMADE NUCLEAR WEATHER CONTROL, FROM BOTH THE PACIFIC OCEAN, AND FROM SPACE. WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES IN THAT: 1. HIGH? 2. LOW? CLYDE -MB __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/2415a8c6/attachment.html From justinhart at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 10:48:15 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Sat Aug 13 10:48:25 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Interesting! In-Reply-To: <002d01c5a016$c0d052d0$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <002d01c5a016$c0d052d0$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: That's ok. The church seems to have taken care of felis domesticus as well, as they are no longer in existence. Poor Garfield. Justin On 8/13/05, Michael Best wrote: > The World Wildlife Fund, a liberal organization, has a nifty site where they > map the range of any species you enter. It is at: > www.worldwildlife.org/wildfinder > > > Here are their results for my search on species Homo sapiens: > > "The species you chose, Homo sapiens, is not currently mapped. The reasons > for this may include: > . The species is largely or wholly marine > . Due to human influence the species historical range is unknown > . The species is found in captivity > . The species is extinct" > > > I suppose the correct answer is C, "The species is found in captivity." > Captives of idiots like them! > > HA! > > -MB > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 15:44:32 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 15:44:54 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050813170916.19353.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 13, 2005 10:09:16 AM Message-ID: <20050813224432.75104.qmail@mall-net.com> > > ISN'T THE 'UNITED' STATES; (THE U.S. AIR FORCE INCLUDED), NOW FRIENDS WITH COMMUNIST RUSSIA? > I THINK THAT THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS NEED'S TO BE INVESTIGATED INTO THE PROMOTION OF INTERNET IMMORALITY, FOR THE PROMOTION OF TERRORISM, AND REGARDING CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. > TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY DRUG ADDICTS NOW, TO THE ENDLESS INTERNET PORN, TO EVEN CARE ABOUT IT ENOUGH, TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES > FOR THE MORAL BETTERMENT OF THIS NATION. I really don't think there's too much to worry about there. The drug addicts do disrupt things, true; but they don't really get in deep enough to screw everything up. Drugs screw their minds, so if they use them enough they get caught sooner or later, one way or another. > THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE IS AIDING AND ABETTING IN THE MORAL COLLAPSE OF THIS COUNTRY. Again, I'd not worry that much about it, because the statistics are that only a small portion of the people are into that. Internet statistics are very interesting in that. On the study we did for a client, 75% - 90% of the porn requests (depending upon the nature of the request) came from less than a hundred IP numbers. The conclusion was that it was search engine positioning vendors (SEOs) fighting over the top ranks in the porn industry for their clients. > THEY OWN THE INTERNET. Bull! They don't even own a majority of the searches, even if you compare them to other categories -- and that's without removing the SEO's fake queries. > THE GLOBAL ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE; COULD THEY BE USING BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES FOR SINISTER SURVEILLANCE REASONS AS WELL??? Nope. Money drives folks to try different things. I did some work a while back for a power research institute. Those folks are not smart enough to even wipe their rears. > HAVE YOU HEARD OR READ ANYTHING, REGARDING RUSSIAN RADIO FREQUENCY WEAPONS, LOW FREQUENCY BRAINWAVE AUDIO RADIO MIND KONTROL, AND LOW FREQUENCY AUDIO RADIO BRAINWAVE FREQUENCY INTERFERENCE, KOMBINED WITH ANY FORCED USE OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, ON YOUTH AND ADULTS ALIKE? The soviets had some very interesting radio beacons, some called them "bubblers", because that is what they sounded like. This was a MAJOR effort which took up a very large portion of their electrical power generation capability, and a large part of their military budget. The key to understanding this, was the nature of the "rrr" portion of the signal. No two pulses were alike. In other words, the "rrr" portion was a code to identify the source and time of the signal. These signals would travel across the globe and be received again. Using the timing of the echos, they could identify where each reflection came from. That is an over-the-horizon radar! Illegal per our treaties, but used nevertheless. They knew how many of our aircraft were in the air at any time. They could get advanced waring of any attempt to attack, whether by missile or by aircraft. That is all it was. And when they stood down, it ceased. > > AS FAR AS HAARP IS CONCERNED; ALL I THINK THAT I KNOW ABOUT IT, IS > THE USE OF AMPLIFIED MICROWAVE ENERGY, FOCUSED AND DIRECTED > INTO SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE ATMOSPHERE, TO EFFECT WEATHER > PATTERNS. Be a little hard! Huge quantities of energy required to do anything like that. > I QUESTION IF THEY COULD BE BUILDING IT INTO A GLOBAL GRIDWORK, > IN SIMILAR WAYS TO THE ELECTRICAL POWER UTILITY GRID INFRASTRUCTURE- > INTRAFUCKTURE. Too expensive. And too many people to keep it quiet. > I RAISE THE QUESTION OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MANMADE NUCLEAR WEATHER CONTROL, FROM BOTH THE PACIFIC OCEAN, AND FROM SPACE. Weeeelll... nuclear... too many people have Geiger counters. You can get one for your PC for about $125, or could a few years ago. Even in the nuclear testing times, when a Geiger counter would cost the equivalent of a few thousand today's dollars, people were discussing and complaining about the background radiation they were picking up. How do I know? My father repaired a number of private and corporate Geiger counters in the sixties. Not a steady stream, but maybe one every year or two. Enough folks knew that he did odd electronics repair, that he got the business. And it wasn't exactly a huge city we were in, either. We lived in a small to medium sized town; nothing like a city. You can't hide nuclear. Most common folks are afraid of nuclear, even when it provides power. So again, on the basis of security, I'd say it simply can't be done without it leaking to the press. I mean, look at Groom Lake and Area 51. Those are aircraft test zones, and are, to some extent, reported in select, military oriented aviation magazines. Any of the a* h*'s who talk about conspiracies can reference those magazines. Do they? Are you kidding? That would destroy the joy of their lives, the bogeymen whom they use to excuse the failure of their lives and the entire economy. You know what I find interesting about America? A lot of very stupid unprofessional people make a lot of money doing dumb things like buying, fixing, and reselling homes. Or renting those homes out. Some who have repair skills, do it themselves. Others, those more skilled at tracking finances, can afford to hire others to do the work because they are more intelligent at selecting the homes which will more substantially increase in value if fixed up. Did you watch Trump: The Apprentice? One of the contestants was a dumb shoeshine boy. That guy, by learning how to do it well, then setting up and franchising shoeshine stands, made a fair bit of money! And managed to wheedle his way onto the show by his success. Do the conspiracy buffs do anything like this? No! "It's all a conspiracy! You can't succeed!" Well, that high school dropout shoeshine boy certainly makes those who say it can't be done, look like the a* h*'s they really are! And even if the deck seems stacked against you, you'll NEVER succeed if you don't try. And even if it is stacked, you're probably smart enough to figure out how to climb that stack! Enough other people do! Success starts with desire. It builds with belief in possibilities, and is multiplied by intelligence and multiplied again by hard work. The smarter you are, the less hard work you need; and the converse is also true. But you know something, most people just don't bother trying. Most people would just rather go to work each day and do what they are told. Are you most people? Or are you a REAL mad scientist? One who's burning mission in life is to do something useful for all humanity? (Or at east entertaining to some segment of humanity.) When I could work down in the valley, I'd pick up that telephone and call 100 people each day, looking for work and for more people to call. I worked project in the depths of the worst recession Silicon Valley ever had. I worked the good times too. And I made decent money. I never over-charged, never sought the obscene bucks others sought. I just wanted to do my part to keep this civilization growing. And if my health were good enough, that's exactly what I would be doing today! Because I loved that kind of work. There is just nothing as good as seeing the folks you work with and for appreciate you at the end of the project! NOTHING! (Well, maybe realizing you've just solved an impossible problem.... but then, that's why all those folks appreciate YOU!) I wake up dreaming of going back down there, of calling those people, of working on those kinds of projects again. It's hell not being able to do that down there now. It's like being a horse with a broken leg. But I'm working on a few things, trying to get things up here under control so that I can do some of this over the internet. I'd done that too, working on research projects with people across the USA, and for some clients in other nations. It wasn't as intense as being there, interacting with a lot of really bright people... but it was good. And maybe, if I can get this trailer moved to another location, get better reception on the microwave link, etc.; maybe I can do it again. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 15:54:22 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 15:54:26 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Etc., again In-Reply-To: <001001c59fd2$152ff460$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 13, 2005 02:41:48 AM Message-ID: <20050813225422.80625.qmail@mall-net.com> > On contrails- > > They have been seen even during the days of propeller (air screw) = > aircraft. > Look at any film of high-level bombings from WW2. The B-17 and B-29 = > bombers > flew high enough for their exhaust to condense, producing contrails > (condensation trails). These were piston-powered, propeller-driven > aircraft, producing contrails. Yes, but I was talking about commercial prop driven aircraft. You just didn't see as many condensation trails. then again, there wasn't as much traffic till the "jet set" took off. Air travel in those days wasn't as fast or as comfortable! My father use to fly a few times a year, if that. He'd talk about air pockets, about all kinds of problems we no longer have because the jets fly fast enough and high enough that inertia overcame much of that. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 16:29:57 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 16:30:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] RE: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 25 In-Reply-To: <20050813174825.EEDA2398A1@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <000e01c5a05e$eafcc050$6501a8c0@mikey> > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:48:15 -0400 > From: Justin Hart > That's ok. The church seems to have taken care of felis domesticus as > well, as they are no longer in existence. > > Poor Garfield. > > Justin Well, not the Church, but the kneeo-jerk liberals that run that website. I first looked for housecats, and didn't find them (even though I have a colony of them here). Then I looked for Canis familiaris, and found no dogs, either! That was when I searched on H. sapiens, and found we only exist in captivity. So I looked for Rattus norwegius (the Norway rat, so common in NYC), and they weren't there either. Expanding the search to genus Rattus, I found dozens of endangered species of rats, but none that are the scourge of Man. I suppose that the lack of F. domesticus led to this! (Poor Garfield- will he ever eat lasagna again?) However, any endangered species you please is readily found there. I see this as another prime example of how editors bias information. I find it easy to deduce that this website is promulgating a private agenda, one aimed at swaying public opinion to their cause. THIS IS NOT SCIENCE! "It is a critical error to theorize before one has data. Theories are to be molded to fit the facts, not facts chosen to support the theory." But editors with a political axe to grind use their power to sway public opinion, by choosing facts to fit their private agenda. One more comment- Kudos to the American Lutherans for their recent decision on homosexual priests. I may not be a great fan of organized religious orders, but they occasionally do the right thing. I am a follower of Christ, not necessarily a follower of Man's organized religious body politic. Justin, we might shout at each other across the aisle, but on the real issues we agree. I think I can call you "friend." -MB From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 18:27:00 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 18:27:07 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050813224432.75104.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050814012700.55374.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> You know what I find interesting about America? A lot of very stupid unprofessional people make a lot of money doing dumb things like buying, fixing, and reselling homes. Or renting those homes out. Some who have repair skills, do it themselves. Others, those more skilled at tracking finances, can afford to hire others to do the work because they are more intelligent at selecting the homes which will more substantially increase in value if fixed up. I'D LIKE TO DO REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT, AND REAL ESTATE RENTAL, ON A VERY VERY SMALL SCALE. I'D LIKE TO BUILD MY OWN CUSTOM ENGINEERED HOMES TOO, ON AN IDEAL SMALL PLOT OF LAND; A MICRO RANCH, ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF A COUNTY, WHERE LAND TAXES ARE AS LOW AS LOW CAN BE. WELDED-ONE-PIECE-FRAMED MICRO TETRA-GEODESIC DOMES, BUILT LIKE TANKS, REQUIRING AS MINIMAL MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE, ARE A DREAM; THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IT PULL OFF, INTO THE MAKING IT INTO A TRUE REALITY. IT MAY NEVER HAPPEN IF I CAN'T GET THE FURTHER EDUCATION THAT I SO DESPERATELY NEED. THE OKLAHOMA EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS SHIT. I WANT TO MOVE TO, AND LIVE IN, COLORADO. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY LIFE SUPPORT INFRASTRUCTURE UP THERE. TULSA OKLAHOMA HAS ONLY VERY MINIMAL LIFE SUPPORT. MOSTLY DEATH SUPPORT INTRA-FUCKTURE HERE, AND MASS SCALE FAILURE HERE, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL WASTELAND INDUSTRIAL, SLUM SHIT HOLE, SHITTY, AND SHTATE. OVERTAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION, AND SHIT EDUCATION ARE HIGH AS HIGH CAN BE, IN THIS WORTHLESS SHITTY AND SHTATE. Did you watch Trump: The Apprentice? NOPE; I ONLY CAUGHT PASSING GLIMPSES OF THAT SHOW, BUT NEVER HAD THE WILL TO SIT DOWN TO WATCH AN ENTIRE EPISODE; THE SHOW LOOKED TOO BORING TO ME. And even if the deck seems stacked against you, you'll NEVER succeed if you don't try. And even if it is stacked, you're probably smart enough to figure out how to climb that stack! Enough other people do! CLIMB IT, AND/OR NUCLEAR BLAST THROUGH IT, TO GET THINGS DONE, FOR THE BETTERMENT! Success starts with desire. It builds with belief in possibilities, and is multiplied by intelligence and multiplied again by hard work. The smarter you are, the less hard work you need; and the converse is also true. But you know something, most people just don't bother trying. Most people would just rather go to work each day and do what they are told. I AM SICK OF WORKING HARDER, AND NOT GETTING PAID WHAT I AM WORTH. IT IS TAKING ITS TOLL ON MY HEALTH; BOTH PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUM. Are you most people? NO. I DON'T LIKE TO DEAL WITH MOST PEOPLE ANYMORE, AND THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I JUST FEEL LIKE LASHING OUT AT OTHERS, BECAUSE OF MY FRUSTRATION WITH WHAT MOST PEOPLE CALL LIFE; WHICH IS ACTUALLY BETTER DESCRIBED AS: ANTI-LIFE. BRAINDEAD OKLAHOMA; AS DESCRIBED TO ME BEFORE, BY A FRIEND, WHO IS ALSO A SUCCESSFUL LOCAL SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, NEAR WHERE I LIVE. I AM OUT OF LOVE FOR TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA, BUT I FEEL TRAPPED. Or are you a REAL mad scientist? One who's burning mission in life is to do something useful for all humanity? (Or at least entertaining to some segment of humanity?) YEAH; THE TALKING CLOCK PROJECT IS ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND MY CONTINUED EFFORTS, TO THE POINT OF WHERE I FEEL LIKE PUNCHING PEOPLE THROUGH THEIR FACES, BECAUSE I WANT THE PROJECT DONE, AND DONE RIGHT; AND I WANT IT TO MAKE POSITIVE CHANGES IN THE BLIND COMMUNITIES, THE BROADCAST ENGINEERING COMMUNITY, AND IN THE AMATEUR RADIO REPEATER COMMUNITIES. THE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT IS FURTHERING ALONG. I'VE GOT ALL OF THE COIL FORMERS SILICONE R.T.V.'D, INTO PLACE. I JUST NEED TO GET A LITTLE MORE SILICONE R.T.V; TO SILICONE THE MAGNET WIRE TO THE P.V.C. HELMET, BETWEEN THE FORMERS, TO FINALLY FINISH THE PROJECT, AND USE ELECTRICAL TAPE TO ALSO HELP OUT IN KEEPING IT ALL HELD TOGETHER. I'D LIKE TO USE BANANA CONNECTORS, FOR EASY SETUP, AND EASY DISASSEMBLY WHEN USING THE HELMET, WHICH WOULD ALSO HELP, FOR NEATLY PUTTING IT AWAY WHILE IT ISN'T IN USE; MAYBE EVEN GETTING A CUSTOM CARRYING CASE, FOR THE STORAGE AND MOBILITY OF THE HELMET AS WELL, AND FOR CARRYING THE AUDIO GEN POSSIBLY AT THE SAME TIME TOO. MY LOTUS FLOWER GROWING PROJECT IS CURRENTLY DEAD. WHILE I HAD TO BE GONE TO THE HOSPITAL FOR TWO WEEKS, I PUT MY MOTHER IN CHARGE OF IT, AND HER BIMBO DUMBASS SCREWED IT UP, AND SHE KILLED THE SEEDLING THAT WAS SUCCESSFULLY GROWING. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/85fa07e1/attachment-0001.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 18:41:52 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 18:42:00 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Efficient solar energy Message-ID: <001101c5a071$58da7e70$6501a8c0@mikey> Itsh Shaturdhay night, and the offischer asked me why my gash tank wash full of alchohol! I tried to exshplane that it wash fule . Can anyone post my bale? -MB (tongue firmly planted in cheek) From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 19:14:15 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 19:14:26 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050813174825.EEDA2398A1@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <001401c5a075$df1ee990$6501a8c0@mikey> > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:09:16 -0700 (PDT) > From: clyde lofton > I'D LIKE TO READ MORE ABOUT ORWELL. > I NEED TO LOOK UP SOME TRITE INFORMATION ON ORWELL, ON THE NET. Just read George Orwell's books, e.g. _Animal Farm_, and _1984_. > HOW ABOUT THE TERM: CHEMTRAILS? I don't think these exist, at least not in the way that the "conspiracy theorists" posit. The physics of aerial spraying of chemicals indicate that stratospheric deployment of chemicals would be most ineffective. IMHO, these fall into the category of http://www.zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters > POSSIBLE, BUT I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT IT WOULD HOLD TRUE THOUGH, OF THE > DELIBERATE POISONING OF OUR ATMOSPHERE, OVER MAJOR SHITTIES (CITIES), WITH > PSYCHOTROPIC CHEMICALS, AND LOT'S OF OTHER CHEMICAL GARBAGE AS > WELL. Would not those doing the poisoning also suffer? This makes no sense. Poisoning of water supplies is easier, cheaper, more effective, and more selective. "Chemtrails" is but disinformation, IMHO. > ISN'T THE 'UNITED' STATES; (THE U.S. AIR FORCE INCLUDED), NOW FRIENDS WITH > COMMUNIST RUSSIA? Russia is not, and has never been Communist. It was Socialist. Now, as Stalin said, there was no need for the USSR to fight the USA, the USA would become Socialist of their own accord. > I THINK THAT THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS NEED'S TO BE INVESTIGATED > INTO THE PROMOTION OF INTERNET IMMORALITY, FOR THE PROMOTION OF TERRORISM, > AND REGARDING CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. No. The Army Corps of Engineers have nothing to do with this. > TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY DRUG ADDICTS NOW, TO THE ENDLESS INTERNET > PORN, TO EVEN CARE ABOUT IT ENOUGH, TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES > FOR THE MORAL BETTERMENT OF THIS NATION. No, we have abdicated personal responsibility. The majority has ceded personal freedom of choice to the Government, in exchange for bread and circuses. > THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE IS AIDING AND ABETTING IN THE > MORAL COLLAPSE OF THIS COUNTRY. We need no assistance on that account! > THEY OWN THE INTERNET. Nope. DARPA hired a bunch of geeks to design ARPAnet in the early sixties. And they designed it to be beyond centralized control. The government had no concept of what the designers were doing; they were too ignorant of tech to understand. > THE GLOBAL ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE; COULD > THEY BE USING BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES FOR SINISTER SURVEILLANCE REASONS > AS WELL??? They don't need BPL. Google "Project Magic Lantern," or "Dragonware Suite." > Nikola Tesla in his Colorado Springs lab. > > I WASN'T AWARE THAT TESLA STARTED THE IDEAS OF HAARP AT COLORADO SPRINGS. Tesla's work was based on a model of the earth/ionosphere being a giant spherical capacitor. He believed that energy could be transmitted, without loss, across this medium. Colorado Springs was his prototype, and the Wardencliff station was supposed to be the practical example, but was never finished. But the Government released the efficacy in manipulating the atmosphere. > HAVE YOU HEARD OR READ ANYTHING, REGARDING RUSSIAN RADIO FREQUENCY > WEAPONS, LOW FREQUENCY BRAINWAVE AUDIO RADIO MIND KONTROL, AND LOW > FREQUENCY AUDIO RADIO BRAINWAVE FREQUENCY INTERFERENCE, KOMBINED WITH ANY > FORCED USE OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, ON YOUTH AND ADULTS ALIKE? Oh yes. Both the CIA and the NKVD/KGB did much experimentation on this. > AS FAR AS HAARP IS CONCERNED; ALL I THINK THAT I KNOW ABOUT IT, IS > THE USE OF AMPLIFIED MICROWAVE ENERGY, FOCUSED AND DIRECTED > INTO SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE ATMOSPHERE, TO EFFECT WEATHER > PATTERNS. > > I QUESTION IF THEY COULD BE BUILDING IT INTO A GLOBAL GRIDWORK, > IN SIMILAR WAYS TO THE ELECTRICAL POWER UTILITY GRID INFRASTRUCTURE- > INTRAFUCKTURE. As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Don't see evil in every shadow, Clyde. These ideas may have been considered by the Government, but the tech isn't there yet. And the expense would be immense. Further, they are so far "out-of-the-box" that the established scientists would reject them, out of hand. If such a conspiracy as you envision really existed, would they not have embraced Pons and Fleishmann in the late 1980's? > I RAISE THE QUESTION OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MANMADE NUCLEAR WEATHER > CONTROL, FROM BOTH THE PACIFIC OCEAN, AND FROM SPACE. > > WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES IN THAT: > > 1. HIGH? > > 2. LOW? 3. VERY low. -MB From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 19:46:46 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 19:46:49 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Efficient solar energy In-Reply-To: <001101c5a071$58da7e70$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 13, 2005 09:41:52 PM Message-ID: <20050814024646.12309.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > Itsh Shaturdhay night, and the offischer asked me why my gash tank > wash full of alchohol! > > I tried to exshplane that it wash fule . > > Can anyone post my bale? > > -MB (tongue firmly planted in cheek) > Damned hard to typoe lauighing!!!! -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 13 19:52:56 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 13 19:53:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Ok Javilk, forget the corn... Message-ID: <000101c5a07b$462e7b00$6501a8c0@mikey> World's largest solar installation to use Stirling engine technology 20-year purchase agreement between Southern California Edison and Stirling Energy Systems, Inc. will result in 20,000+ dish array, covering 4,500 acres, and capable of generating 500 MW -- more electricity than all other present U.S. solar projects combined. http://pesn.com/2005/08/11/9600147_Edison_Stirling_largest_solar/ From justinhart at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 20:02:59 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Sat Aug 13 20:03:08 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Ok Javilk, forget the corn... In-Reply-To: <000101c5a07b$462e7b00$6501a8c0@mikey> References: <000101c5a07b$462e7b00$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: I ran over that with someone. If you consider the acreage, a nuclear plant covering the same area has about 7.5 times the output as this system does during peak operation. That said, it's pretty nifty technology. Justin On 8/13/05, Michael Best wrote: > World's largest solar installation to use Stirling engine technology > > 20-year purchase agreement between Southern California Edison and Stirling > Energy Systems, Inc. will result in 20,000+ dish array, covering 4,500 > acres, and capable of generating 500 MW -- more electricity than all other > present U.S. > solar projects combined. > > > > http://pesn.com/2005/08/11/9600147_Edison_Stirling_largest_solar/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 20:28:35 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 20:29:20 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <001401c5a075$df1ee990$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050814032836.19866.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> Michael Best < mbest@triad.rr.com > wrote: > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:09:16 -0700 (PDT) > From: clyde lofton > I'D LIKE TO READ MORE ABOUT ORWELL. > I NEED TO LOOK UP SOME TRITE INFORMATION ON ORWELL, ON THE NET. Just read George Orwell's books, e.g. _Animal Farm_, and _1984_. COULD THESE TWO BOOKS BE AVAILABLE, NARRATED, ON AUDIO C.D. AS WELL??? I AM MORE OF THE AUDIO VISUAL LEARNER, RATHER THAN THE BOOK READING TYPE, AND SO WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF THEY MAY BE AVAILABLE AS NARRATED AUDIO C.D.'S., OTHER THAN ONLY IN THE TYPICAL BOOK FORMAT STYLE ALONE. > HOW ABOUT THE TERM: CHEMTRAILS? I don't think these exist, at least not in the way that the "conspiracy theorists" posit. The physics of aerial spraying of chemicals indicate that stratospheric deployment of chemicals would be most ineffective. IMHO, these fall into the category of http://www.zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters A VERY BIZARRE WEBSITE! VERY STRANGE! THANKS FOR SHARING IT. I DID GET A LAUGH FROM IT THOUGH, BUT AM NOT SO CERTAIN THAT I OUTTA LAUGH AT IT. > POSSIBLE, BUT I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT IT WOULD HOLD TRUE THOUGH, OF THE > DELIBERATE POISONING OF OUR ATMOSPHERE, OVER MAJOR SHITTIES (CITIES), WITH > PSYCHOTROPIC CHEMICALS, AND LOT'S OF OTHER CHEMICAL GARBAGE AS > WELL. Would not those doing the poisoning also suffer? YES. This makes no sense. YOU ARE RIGHT. Poisoning of water supplies is easier, cheaper, more effective, and more selective. YES; MAKES GOOD AND PERFECT SENSE. "Chemtrails" is but disinformation, IMHO. WHAT IS IMHO ABBREVIATED FOR? > ISN'T THE 'UNITED' STATES; (THE U.S. AIR FORCE INCLUDED), NOW FRIENDS WITH > COMMUNIST RUSSIA? Russia is not, and has never been Communist. COMMUNISM THEN, HAS BEEN A LIE? I DON'T FULLY HAVE A GRASP OF THE DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM. COMMUNISM HAS BEEN DEFINED TO ME, AS A FORM OF ATHEIST DICTATORSHIP. It was Socialist. UNDERSTOOD; UNITED SOVIET *SOCIALIST* REPUBLIC: U.S.S.R. Now, as Stalin said, there was no need for the USSR to fight the USA, the USA would become Socialist of their own accord. THE FUCKING USSA; UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA. WE ARE ALREADY UNDER A NEW WORLD ORDER-NEW WORLD DISORDER AND ORDER TYPE OF SCENARIO ALREADY, OR DAMN CLOSE TO IT, AS I SEE THINGS. > I THINK THAT THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS NEED'S TO BE INVESTIGATED > INTO THE PROMOTION OF INTERNET IMMORALITY, FOR THE PROMOTION OF TERRORISM, > AND REGARDING CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. No. The Army Corps of Engineers have nothing to do with this. I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT YOU'RE 100% CORRECT ON THAT; I THINK THEY MAY BE PLAYERS IN THE GAME. WHERE THAT, THAT I HEARD THAT THE INTERNET WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED, SOLELY AND SPECIFICALLY FOR THE MILITARY, BUT THEN MADE AVAILABLE EQUALLY AS WELL, FOR CIVILIAN USAGE TOO? > TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY DRUG ADDICTS NOW, TO THE ENDLESS INTERNET > PORN, TO EVEN CARE ABOUT IT ENOUGH, TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES > FOR THE MORAL BETTERMENT OF THIS NATION. No, we have abdicated personal responsibility. The majority has ceded personal freedom of choice to the Government, in exchange for bread and circuses. > THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE IS AIDING AND ABETTING IN THE > MORAL COLLAPSE OF THIS COUNTRY. We need no assistance on that account! WE THE DUMBASS MASSES OF STUPID SHEEPLE PEOPLE; LAMBS BEING LED, BLINDLY, DEAFLY, AND DUMBLY DIVIDED, TO THE SLAUGHTER, BY THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT AND ISLAM COOPERATIVE. > THEY OWN THE INTERNET. Nope. DARPA hired a bunch of geeks to design ARPAnet in the early sixties. And they designed it to be beyond centralized - (COMMUNIZED) - control. The government had no concept of what the designers were doing; they were too ignorant of tech to understand. ACTUALLY I WAS REFERRING TO THE MILITARY IN GENERAL, ON THE OWNERSHIP OF THE INTERNET. > THE GLOBAL ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE; COULD > THEY BE USING BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES FOR SINISTER SURVEILLANCE REASONS > AS WELL??? They don't need BPL. Google "Project Magic Lantern," or "Dragonware Suite." I'LL TRY TO DO THE SEARCH, IF I CAN FIND ENOUGH TIME TO DO SO. > Nikola Tesla in his Colorado Springs lab. > > I WASN'T AWARE THAT TESLA STARTED THE IDEAS OF HAARP AT COLORADO SPRINGS. Tesla's work was based on a model of the earth/ionosphere being a giant spherical capacitor. He believed that energy could be transmitted, without loss, across this medium. I KNOW THAT PORTION ALREADY. Colorado Springs was his prototype, and the Wardencliff station was supposed to be the practical example, but was never finished. JOHN PIERPONT MORGAN SPOILED TESLA'S PLANS FOR THE COMPLETED WARDENCLIFFE PROJECT. But the Government released the efficacy in manipulating the atmosphere. I NEED TO FIND OUT MORE, HERE. KNOWLEDGE MADE PUBLIC NOW, ABOUT THE AIR FORCE, AND THE HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL PROJECT??? > HAVE YOU HEARD OR READ ANYTHING, REGARDING RUSSIAN RADIO FREQUENCY > WEAPONS, LOW FREQUENCY BRAINWAVE AUDIO RADIO MIND KONTROL, AND LOW > FREQUENCY AUDIO RADIO BRAINWAVE FREQUENCY INTERFERENCE, KOMBINED WITH ANY > FORCED USE OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, ON YOUTH AND ADULTS ALIKE? Oh yes. Both the CIA and the NKVD/KGB did much experimentation on this. WHAT IS N.K.V.D. ABBREVIATED FOR? > AS FAR AS HAARP IS CONCERNED; ALL I THINK THAT I KNOW ABOUT IT, IS > THE USE OF AMPLIFIED MICROWAVE ENERGY, FOCUSED AND DIRECTED > INTO SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE ATMOSPHERE, TO EFFECT WEATHER > PATTERNS. > > I QUESTION IF THEY COULD BE BUILDING IT INTO A GLOBAL GRIDWORK, > IN SIMILAR WAYS TO THE ELECTRICAL POWER UTILITY GRID INFRASTRUCTURE- > INTRAFUCKTURE. As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Don't see evil in every shadow, Clyde. These ideas may have been considered by the Government, but the tech isn't there yet. And the expense would be immense. Further, they are so far "out-of-the-box" that the established scientists would reject them, out of hand. If such a conspiracy as you envision really existed, would they not have embraced Pons and Fleishmann in the late 1980's? DON'T KNOW; I NEVER CONSIDERED THAT COLD FUSION COULD HAVE BEEN USED FOR ALL OF THE WRONG REASONS, INSTEAD OF FOR THE GOOD REASONS OF ASPIRING INDEPENDENTS LIKE ME. > I RAISE THE QUESTION OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MANMADE NUCLEAR WEATHER > CONTROL, FROM BOTH THE PACIFIC OCEAN, AND FROM SPACE. > > WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES IN THAT: > > 1. HIGH? > > 2. LOW? 3. VERY low. OK. BUT THERE WAS A VERY ODD STORM, BACK IN EARLY JULY, HERE IN TULSA THAT HAD EXTREMELY HIGH WINDS, WITHOUT RAIN, AND SOUNDED LIKE ALL OF THE MILITARY FIREPOWER WAS GOING OFF IN SPACE THAT NIGHT, ABOVE THIS SHITTY INDUSTRIAL SLUM WASTELAND SHITTY. -MB CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/a8d095e8/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 20:28:49 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 20:29:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <001401c5a075$df1ee990$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050814032850.72029.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Michael Best < mbest@triad.rr.com > wrote: > Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:09:16 -0700 (PDT) > From: clyde lofton > I'D LIKE TO READ MORE ABOUT ORWELL. > I NEED TO LOOK UP SOME TRITE INFORMATION ON ORWELL, ON THE NET. Just read George Orwell's books, e.g. _Animal Farm_, and _1984_. COULD THESE TWO BOOKS BE AVAILABLE, NARRATED, ON AUDIO C.D. AS WELL??? I AM MORE OF THE AUDIO VISUAL LEARNER, RATHER THAN THE BOOK READING TYPE, AND SO WOULD LIKE TO SEE IF THEY MAY BE AVAILABLE AS NARRATED AUDIO C.D.'S., OTHER THAN ONLY IN THE TYPICAL BOOK FORMAT STYLE ALONE. > HOW ABOUT THE TERM: CHEMTRAILS? I don't think these exist, at least not in the way that the "conspiracy theorists" posit. The physics of aerial spraying of chemicals indicate that stratospheric deployment of chemicals would be most ineffective. IMHO, these fall into the category of http://www.zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters A VERY BIZARRE WEBSITE! VERY STRANGE! THANKS FOR SHARING IT. I DID GET A LAUGH FROM IT THOUGH, BUT AM NOT SO CERTAIN THAT I OUTTA LAUGH AT IT. > POSSIBLE, BUT I'M NOT IMPLYING THAT IT WOULD HOLD TRUE THOUGH, OF THE > DELIBERATE POISONING OF OUR ATMOSPHERE, OVER MAJOR SHITTIES (CITIES), WITH > PSYCHOTROPIC CHEMICALS, AND LOT'S OF OTHER CHEMICAL GARBAGE AS > WELL. Would not those doing the poisoning also suffer? YES. This makes no sense. YOU ARE RIGHT. Poisoning of water supplies is easier, cheaper, more effective, and more selective. YES; MAKES GOOD AND PERFECT SENSE. "Chemtrails" is but disinformation, IMHO. WHAT IS IMHO ABBREVIATED FOR? > ISN'T THE 'UNITED' STATES; (THE U.S. AIR FORCE INCLUDED), NOW FRIENDS WITH > COMMUNIST RUSSIA? Russia is not, and has never been Communist. COMMUNISM THEN, HAS BEEN A LIE? I DON'T FULLY HAVE A GRASP OF THE DEFINITION OF COMMUNISM. COMMUNISM HAS BEEN DEFINED TO ME, AS A FORM OF ATHEIST DICTATORSHIP. It was Socialist. UNDERSTOOD; UNITED SOVIET *SOCIALIST* REPUBLIC: U.S.S.R. Now, as Stalin said, there was no need for the USSR to fight the USA, the USA would become Socialist of their own accord. THE FUCKING USSA; UNITED SOCIALIST STATES OF AMERICA. WE ARE ALREADY UNDER A NEW WORLD ORDER-NEW WORLD DISORDER AND ORDER TYPE OF SCENARIO ALREADY, OR DAMN CLOSE TO IT, AS I SEE THINGS. > I THINK THAT THE U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS NEED'S TO BE INVESTIGATED > INTO THE PROMOTION OF INTERNET IMMORALITY, FOR THE PROMOTION OF TERRORISM, > AND REGARDING CERTAIN OTHER THINGS. No. The Army Corps of Engineers have nothing to do with this. I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT YOU'RE 100% CORRECT ON THAT; I THINK THEY MAY BE PLAYERS IN THE GAME. WHERE THAT, THAT I HEARD THAT THE INTERNET WAS ORIGINALLY DESIGNED, SOLELY AND SPECIFICALLY FOR THE MILITARY, BUT THEN MADE AVAILABLE EQUALLY AS WELL, FOR CIVILIAN USAGE TOO? > TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY DRUG ADDICTS NOW, TO THE ENDLESS INTERNET > PORN, TO EVEN CARE ABOUT IT ENOUGH, TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES > FOR THE MORAL BETTERMENT OF THIS NATION. No, we have abdicated personal responsibility. The majority has ceded personal freedom of choice to the Government, in exchange for bread and circuses. > THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE IS AIDING AND ABETTING IN THE > MORAL COLLAPSE OF THIS COUNTRY. We need no assistance on that account! WE THE DUMBASS MASSES OF STUPID SHEEPLE PEOPLE; LAMBS BEING LED, BLINDLY, DEAFLY, AND DUMBLY DIVIDED, TO THE SLAUGHTER, BY THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT AND ISLAM COOPERATIVE. > THEY OWN THE INTERNET. Nope. DARPA hired a bunch of geeks to design ARPAnet in the early sixties. And they designed it to be beyond centralized - (COMMUNIZED) - control. The government had no concept of what the designers were doing; they were too ignorant of tech to understand. ACTUALLY I WAS REFERRING TO THE MILITARY IN GENERAL, ON THE OWNERSHIP OF THE INTERNET. > THE GLOBAL ELECTRICAL POWER GENERATION INFRASTRUCTURE-INTRAFUCKTURE; COULD > THEY BE USING BROADBAND OVER POWERLINES FOR SINISTER SURVEILLANCE REASONS > AS WELL??? They don't need BPL. Google "Project Magic Lantern," or "Dragonware Suite." I'LL TRY TO DO THE SEARCH, IF I CAN FIND ENOUGH TIME TO DO SO. > Nikola Tesla in his Colorado Springs lab. > > I WASN'T AWARE THAT TESLA STARTED THE IDEAS OF HAARP AT COLORADO SPRINGS. Tesla's work was based on a model of the earth/ionosphere being a giant spherical capacitor. He believed that energy could be transmitted, without loss, across this medium. I KNOW THAT PORTION ALREADY. Colorado Springs was his prototype, and the Wardencliff station was supposed to be the practical example, but was never finished. JOHN PIERPONT MORGAN SPOILED TESLA'S PLANS FOR THE COMPLETED WARDENCLIFFE PROJECT. But the Government released the efficacy in manipulating the atmosphere. I NEED TO FIND OUT MORE, HERE. KNOWLEDGE MADE PUBLIC NOW, ABOUT THE AIR FORCE, AND THE HIGH FREQUENCY ACTIVE AURORAL PROJECT??? > HAVE YOU HEARD OR READ ANYTHING, REGARDING RUSSIAN RADIO FREQUENCY > WEAPONS, LOW FREQUENCY BRAINWAVE AUDIO RADIO MIND KONTROL, AND LOW > FREQUENCY AUDIO RADIO BRAINWAVE FREQUENCY INTERFERENCE, KOMBINED WITH ANY > FORCED USE OF PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS, ON YOUTH AND ADULTS ALIKE? Oh yes. Both the CIA and the NKVD/KGB did much experimentation on this. WHAT IS N.K.V.D. ABBREVIATED FOR? > AS FAR AS HAARP IS CONCERNED; ALL I THINK THAT I KNOW ABOUT IT, IS > THE USE OF AMPLIFIED MICROWAVE ENERGY, FOCUSED AND DIRECTED > INTO SPECIFIC AREAS OF THE ATMOSPHERE, TO EFFECT WEATHER > PATTERNS. > > I QUESTION IF THEY COULD BE BUILDING IT INTO A GLOBAL GRIDWORK, > IN SIMILAR WAYS TO THE ELECTRICAL POWER UTILITY GRID INFRASTRUCTURE- > INTRAFUCKTURE. As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Don't see evil in every shadow, Clyde. These ideas may have been considered by the Government, but the tech isn't there yet. And the expense would be immense. Further, they are so far "out-of-the-box" that the established scientists would reject them, out of hand. If such a conspiracy as you envision really existed, would they not have embraced Pons and Fleishmann in the late 1980's? DON'T KNOW; I NEVER CONSIDERED THAT COLD FUSION COULD HAVE BEEN USED FOR ALL OF THE WRONG REASONS, INSTEAD OF FOR THE GOOD REASONS OF ASPIRING INDEPENDENTS LIKE ME. > I RAISE THE QUESTION OF THE POSSIBILITY OF MANMADE NUCLEAR WEATHER > CONTROL, FROM BOTH THE PACIFIC OCEAN, AND FROM SPACE. > > WHAT ARE THE POSSIBILITIES IN THAT: > > 1. HIGH? > > 2. LOW? 3. VERY low. OK. BUT THERE WAS A VERY ODD STORM, BACK IN EARLY JULY, HERE IN TULSA THAT HAD EXTREMELY HIGH WINDS, WITHOUT RAIN, AND SOUNDED LIKE ALL OF THE MILITARY FIREPOWER WAS GOING OFF IN SPACE THAT NIGHT, ABOVE THIS SHITTY INDUSTRIAL SLUM WASTELAND SHITTY. -MB CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/2bde112c/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 20:37:13 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 20:37:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050814012700.55374.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 13, 2005 06:27:00 PM Message-ID: <20050814033713.41451.qmail@mall-net.com> > You know what I find interesting about America? A lot of very > stupid unprofessional people make a lot of money doing dumb things like > buying, fixing, and reselling homes. Or renting those homes out. Some > I'D LIKE TO DO REAL ESTATE INVESTMENT, AND REAL ESTATE RENTAL, ON A VERY VERY SMALL SCALE. The problem is the scale. Any one effort may fail for any number of reasons. If you do enough of them, one or two may fail, but the others will carry the "under performers". If you only do one... and if fails... You are in Trouble! > I'D LIKE TO BUILD MY OWN CUSTOM ENGINEERED HOMES TOO, ON AN IDEAL SMALL PLOT OF LAND; A MICRO RANCH, ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF A COUNTY, WHERE LAND TAXES ARE AS LOW AS LOW CAN BE. The problem is that you only make profit either renting or selling. Thus you have to target the improvements to the market, NEVER to your own peculiar tastes! My friend who does this attends a lot of homes for sale, looking at the prices in the area, looking at why this property is worth a thousand more than that property, etc. For her it's one big research project. (Well, she is a PhD mathematician and has to hire people to do the repair work.) > WELDED-ONE-PIECE-FRAMED MICRO TETRA-GEODESIC DOMES, BUILT LIKE TANKS, REQUIRING AS MINIMAL MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE, ARE A DREAM; THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IT PULL OFF, INTO THE MAKING IT INTO A TRUE REALITY. If you search the web for dome homes, you will find all kinds of fantastic things which went bust. The average consumer does not want to live in a dome home. He and she want to live in a home that's a little better than the home he or she grew up in. And he and she are both willing to pay a lot more for that home, than something that looks like it belongs on the moon. (I'd love to find a cheap dome home!) > THE OKLAHOMA EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS SHIT. It probably ranks higher than the California educational system. Here, one either has to be nuts or independently wealthy to be a teacher, preferably both. > I WANT TO MOVE TO, AND LIVE IN, COLORADO. > BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY LIFE SUPPORT INFRASTRUCTURE UP THERE. So, start reading the newspapers for the area on the web and start searching yellowpages.com for the establishments you need to survive in that area. Yes, it's work. But if you do the work, you will know, and either go, or realize you would not do well there. So start trying to find out. Dreams and desire are good if you start doing something about them. Otherwise they can be very, very frustrating. Which is why most people don't really dream. And why they don't amount to much. > TULSA OKLAHOMA HAS ONLY VERY MINIMAL LIFE SUPPORT. More than you think! Compare what you find in Colorado, with what you find in Tulsa. > MOSTLY DEATH SUPPORT INTRA-FUCKTURE HERE, AND MASS SCALE FAILURE HERE, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL WASTELAND INDUSTRIAL, SLUM SHIT HOLE, SHITTY, AND SHTATE. It's not that bad. Like I keep telling you, you need to go out each morning looking for something NICE, INTERESTING to frame, photograph, or write about. You WILL start finding nice things. If you didn't, Tulsa would be a desert. And even there, you'd find interesting things. I mean come on now, look at some of my pictures of sand and stone on the dirt road at http://www.mall-net.com/today/ I mean, sand??? Yep! Try http://www.mall-net.com/today/potato.html What do you see? Then blur your eyes and what do you see? > Did you watch Trump: The Apprentice? > NOPE; I ONLY CAUGHT PASSING GLIMPSES OF THAT SHOW, BUT NEVER HAD THE WILL TO SIT DOWN TO WATCH AN ENTIRE EPISODE; THE SHOW LOOKED TOO BORING TO ME. It takes imagination to watch a show that isn't all special effects. This wasn't special effects, it was real people trying to do real things as fast as they could. Things I do very badly, but need to do often -- marketing, managing, etc. > And even if the deck seems stacked against you, you'll NEVER > succeed if you don't try. And even if it is stacked, you're probably > smart enough to figure out how to climb that stack! Enough other people > do! > > CLIMB IT, AND/OR NUCLEAR BLAST THROUGH IT, TO GET THINGS DONE, FOR THE BETTERMENT! Never blast! If you destroy, everyone will be against you. If you help others, people will help you. > Success starts with desire. It builds with belief in possibilities, > and is multiplied by intelligence and multiplied again by hard work. The > smarter you are, the less hard work you need; and the converse is also > true. > > But you know something, most people just don't bother trying. Most > people would just rather go to work each day and do what they are told. > I AM SICK OF WORKING HARDER, AND NOT GETTING PAID WHAT I AM WORTH. You are paid what you seem to be worth to whomever employs you. The trick is to make them see you as worth more. I remember reading about Colin Powel as a teen ager. As a summer employee, he was a broom sweeper in a soda plant. One day a bunch of Coca Cola cases smashed on the floor when a truck pulled away. All the sweepers but Colin laughed. Colin picked up his broom, and started cleaning up the mess. Next year, he was foreman. He showed initiative, responsibility and a desire to make things better. That is the type of person who advances in a good work environment. But, not all work environments are good. Some managers are a* H*'s! A good friend of mine, a genuinely good person, is an a* h* manager when it comes to intellectual property projects. His management skills are oriented toward day laborers doing clearly defined tasks. When he tried to manage me on an intellectual project, I walked out! Another friend of mine, a professional manager whom I have worked under several times, would not do well at all trying to manage day labor type work. Different skills altogether! But both are good people. Maybe you need to find other work elsewhere. I was a salesman in a Woolco store part time while in school. I hated the work, wasn't paid enough, etc. So I found something else to do. Then something else. And eventually, got enough of a background to get work in my profession. But the experiences I had were very valuable in understanding the world. > IT IS TAKING ITS TOLL ON MY HEALTH; BOTH PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUM. > Are you most people? > > NO. > I DON'T LIKE TO DEAL WITH MOST PEOPLE ANYMORE, AND THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I JUST FEEL LIKE LASHING OUT AT OTHERS, BECAUSE OF MY FRUSTRATION WITH WHAT MOST PEOPLE CALL LIFE; WHICH IS ACTUALLY BETTER DESCRIBED AS: ANTI-LIFE. So, find something you do well. Then find someone who needs it done. Get them to hire you. That's what I always do. My resume is longer than a rap sheet! Well, I'm a consultant, I always leave when the project is done! Find something that interests you. Find out who's doing it. Write them a letter. NEVER send a resume to personnel, their job is to keep you out, not to hire you. Always look for some way to contact the guy who's doing it. Sometimes that's finding him in the newspaper, in some trade publications, etc. But... don't do it once. Do it hundreds of times with hundreds of people! Keep doing it in the area of your interest till you get a job out of it. Remember, you are not a failure till you give up. And since you only need one job (at a time), the method works if you get that one job, regardless of how many letters you write. Hey, you have a computer, no? Iterate! Try different approaches! There is no one perfect way. See what your statistics are on replies. Like I said, I'd call a hundred people a day, talking to 30 - 35 each and every week day. > BRAINDEAD OKLAHOMA; AS DESCRIBED TO ME BEFORE, BY A FRIEND, WHO IS ALSO A SUCCESSFUL LOCAL SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, NEAR WHERE I LIVE. Does he need your skills? Does he know someone else who might? Ask him. Most of the good jobs are not advertised; they are created when a guy with the right talents needs a guy who needs those talents. That's why I always use the phone to get work. I find guys, call them, and get them to talk to me about their needs. > I AM OUT OF LOVE FOR TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA, BUT I FEEL TRAPPED. It's easy to feel trapped, Clyde. But who has the keys? Who is locking the door? (How many keys do you have on your keyring?) > Or are you a REAL mad scientist? One who's burning mission in life > is to do something useful for all humanity? (Or at least entertaining > to some segment of humanity?) > YEAH; THE TALKING CLOCK PROJECT IS ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND MY CONTINUED EFFORTS, TO THE POINT OF WHERE I FEEL LIKE PUNCHING PEOPLE THROUGH THEIR FACES, BECAUSE I WANT THE PROJECT DONE, AND DONE RIGHT; AND I WANT IT TO MAKE POSITIVE CHANGES IN THE BLIND COMMUNITIES, THE BROADCAST ENGINEERING COMMUNITY, AND IN THE AMATEUR RADIO REPEATER COMMUNITIES. Are you a ham radio operator? Do you have a ham license? > THE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT IS FURTHERING ALONG. Good! > I'VE GOT ALL OF THE COIL FORMERS SILICONE R.T.V.'D, INTO PLACE. > I JUST NEED TO GET A LITTLE MORE SILICONE R.T.V; TO SILICONE THE MAGNET WIRE TO THE P.V.C. HELMET, BETWEEN THE FORMERS, TO FINALLY FINISH THE PROJECT, AND USE ELECTRICAL TAPE TO ALSO HELP OUT IN KEEPING IT ALL HELD TOGETHER. > I'D LIKE TO USE BANANA CONNECTORS, FOR EASY SETUP, AND EASY DISASSEMBLY WHEN USING THE HELMET, WHICH WOULD ALSO HELP, FOR NEATLY PUTTING IT AWAY WHILE IT ISN'T IN USE; MAYBE EVEN GETTING A CUSTOM CARRYING CASE, FOR THE STORAGE AND MOBILITY OF THE HELMET AS WELL, AND FOR CARRYING THE AUDIO GEN POSSIBLY AT THE SAME TIME TOO. My rig is just good enough. Sticks of wood, phono connector, etc. As cheap and fast as I could build it. That way, I got the benefits of having it very quickly. > MY LOTUS FLOWER GROWING PROJECT IS CURRENTLY DEAD. > WHILE I HAD TO BE GONE TO THE HOSPITAL FOR TWO WEEKS, I PUT MY MOTHER IN CHARGE OF IT, AND HER BIMBO DUMBASS SCREWED IT UP, AND SHE KILLED THE SEEDLING THAT WAS SUCCESSFULLY GROWING. Some people have other talents... but I know what you mean. My mother is an artist, still living, now in her 90's. No engineering talent What So Ever! Not much intellectual talent either! Then again, some of her art work is hanging in Japan, Europe, and few other places. And a lot of it is really, really nice! Different people have different talents. Don't interpret others as if they were you. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 20:38:13 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 20:38:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] APOLOGY FOR THE ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE POSTING. Message-ID: <20050814033813.16807.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> IN MY ATTEMPT TO USE THE SAVE AS A DRAFT FUNCTION, THE DAMNED COMPUTER SENT THE E-MAIL TWICE, INSTEAD OF SAVING IT, AND I DON'T KNOW THE REASON WHY. MAYBE SOME COMPUTER VIRUS BULLSHIT INTERFERING WITH THE PROCESS OR SOMETHING. HELL IF I KNOW. MY APOLOGY FOR THE ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE POSTING. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/0454fa25/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 20:44:53 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 20:44:56 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050814032836.19866.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 13, 2005 08:28:35 PM Message-ID: <20050814034453.44810.qmail@mall-net.com> > YES; MAKES GOOD AND PERFECT SENSE. > > > "Chemtrails" is but disinformation, IMHO. > > > WHAT IS IMHO ABBREVIATED FOR? "In My Humble Oppinion" > Russia is not, and has never been Communist. > > COMMUNISM THEN, HAS BEEN A LIE? Communism has always been a lie! Left, Right, and Center! And the Bolshevic... Bolsh means Large, like the Bolshoi Ballet is the BIG ballet of Russia. The Bolshevic party was the smallest party. I forget whether it was Stalin or someone else who said the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it. And that's what they did! Lied left, right, and center! They were a dictatorship with socialistic tendencies, if only for the elite. -no one you know- From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 21:29:54 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 21:30:01 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050814033713.41451.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050814042954.29916.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: (I'd love to find a cheap dome home!) I NEED AN ALUMINUM GEODOME THAT IS WELDED ONE PIECE, AND BUILT WITH TANK STRENGTH, WITH MINIMAL TO ZERO MAINTENANCE. > I WANT TO MOVE TO, AND LIVE IN, COLORADO. > BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS ANY LIFE SUPPORT INFRASTRUCTURE UP THERE. So, start reading the newspapers for the area on the web and start searching yellowpages.com for the establishments you need to survive in that area. (ENVIRON)MENTAL HEALTH/PHYSICAL HEALTH IS A FIRST PRIORITY. ANTI-LIBERAL NEWSPAPERS FOR COLORADO SPRINGS AND FORT COLLINS ARE WHAT I NEED TO READ. I'M TAKING OFF FOR COLRADO, NEXT MONTH, ON THE GREYHOUND, TO SCOUT OUT NEW TERRITORY, AND BULLDOZING ALL OTHER PRIORITIES TO THE SIDE FOR THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER. Yes, it's work. But if you do the work, you will know, and either go, or realize you would not do well there. So start trying to find out. Dreams and desire are good if you start doing something about them. Otherwise they can be very, very frustrating. Which is why most people don't really dream. And why they don't amount to much. > TULSA OKLAHOMA HAS ONLY VERY MINIMAL LIFE SUPPORT. More than you think! Compare what you find in Colorado, with what you find in Tulsa. > MOSTLY DEATH SUPPORT INTRA-FUCKTURE HERE, AND MASS SCALE FAILURE HERE, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL WASTELAND INDUSTRIAL SLUM, SLUM SHIT HOLE, SHITTY, AND SHTATE. It's not that bad. Like I keep telling you, you need to go out each morning looking for something NICE, INTERESTING to frame, photograph, or write about. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING BEAUTIFUL IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUMBURB ANYMORE, IF I EVEN EVER DID IN THE FIRST PLACE. I'VE GOT AN ENDLESS BAD ATTITUDE ABOUT THIS INDUSTRIAL SHIT PRISON AND INDUSTRIAL SHIT PRISON SLUMBURB OF TULSA. I NEED AN OVERDOSE OF VITAMINS AND PAINKILLERS, AND TO HOP ON THE GREYHOUND BUS TO COLORADO, NEVER TO RETURN TO THIS DUMBASS WASTELAND EVER AGAIN. You WILL start finding nice things. If you didn't, Tulsa would be a desert. And even there, you'd find interesting things. I mean come on now, look at some of my pictures of sand and stone on the dirt road at http://www.mall-net.com/today/ I mean, sand??? Yep! Try http://www.mall-net.com/today/potato.html What do you see? Then blur your eyes and what do you see? > Did you watch Trump: The Apprentice? > NOPE; I ONLY CAUGHT PASSING GLIMPSES OF THAT SHOW, BUT NEVER HAD THE WILL TO SIT DOWN TO WATCH AN ENTIRE EPISODE; THE SHOW LOOKED TOO BORING TO ME. It takes imagination to watch a show that isn't all special effects. This wasn't special effects, it was real people trying to do real things as fast as they could. Things I do very badly, but need to do often -- marketing, managing, etc. > And even if the deck seems stacked against you, you'll NEVER > succeed if you don't try. And even if it is stacked, you're probably > smart enough to figure out how to climb that stack! Enough other people > do! > > CLIMB IT, AND/OR NUCLEAR BLAST THROUGH IT, TO GET THINGS DONE, FOR THE BETTERMENT! Never blast! If you destroy, everyone will be against you. If you help others, people will help you. BLASTING IS A NECESSITY AT TIMES, IN MY DEFILED LIFE. > Success starts with desire. It builds with belief in possibilities, > and is multiplied by intelligence and multiplied again by hard work. The > smarter you are, the less hard work you need; and the converse is also > true. > > But you know something, most people just don't bother trying. Most > people would just rather go to work each day and do what they are told. > I AM SICK OF WORKING HARDER, AND NOT GETTING PAID WHAT I AM WORTH. But, not all work environments are good. Some managers are a* H*'s! MY MANAGER WAS AS COOL AS COOL CAN BE, BUT SHE COULDN'T TAKE ALL OF THE OVERWHELMING BURDEN THAT WAS PILED ON HER, FROM THE ENDLESS STACKS OF STORE OVERSTOCK. A good friend of mine, a genuinely good person, is an a* h* manager when it comes to intellectual property projects. His management skills are oriented toward day laborers doing clearly defined tasks. When he tried to manage me on an intellectual project, I walked out! Another friend of mine, a professional manager whom I have worked under several times, would not do well at all trying to manage day labor type work. Different skills altogether! But both are good people. MY MANAGER JUST QUIT LAST WEEK, DUE TO ALL OF THE FUCKING GODDAMNED AND MANDAMNED ENDLESS OVERWHELMING STRESS, AND THE FOREVER GO NOWHERE FAST-NESS OF THIS EMPTY EMPIRE, OF TULSA. Maybe you need to find other work elsewhere. I NEED TO FIND EMPLOYMENT IN COLORADO SPRINGS, OR FORT COLLINS, AND I ALSO NEED TO FIND PEACE IN MY LIFE, EQUALLY AS WELL. I'M SICK OF TULSA. I was a salesman in a Woolco store part time while in school. I hated the work, wasn't paid enough, etc. So I found something else to do. Then something else. And eventually, got enough of a background to get work in my profession. But the experiences I had were very valuable in understanding the world. > IT IS TAKING ITS TOLL ON MY HEALTH; BOTH PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUM. > Are you most people? > > NO. > I DON'T LIKE TO DEAL WITH MOST PEOPLE ANYMORE, AND THERE ARE TIMES WHERE I JUST FEEL LIKE LASHING OUT AT OTHERS, BECAUSE OF MY FRUSTRATION WITH WHAT MOST PEOPLE CALL LIFE; WHICH IS ACTUALLY BETTER DESCRIBED AS: ANTI-LIFE. So, find something you do well. Then find someone who needs it done. Get them to hire you. That's what I always do. My resume is longer than a rap sheet! Well, I'm a consultant, I always leave when the project is done! Find something that interests you. Find out who's doing it. Write them a letter. I DID SEND THE TRITE MARKET STUDY FOR THE BLIND FOR THE TALKING CLOCK, TO THE ADMINISTRATOR, AT THE NEBRASKA COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED. I WAS JUST TOO WORN OUT YESTERDAY AFTER WORK, TO SEND A FOLLOW UP E-MAIL LETTER TO THE ADMIN., AND SO IT IS SHELVED AT THIS MOMENT, DUE TO SO MUCH PAIN RIGHT NOW. I NEED TO GO TO THE CHIROPRACTOR SOON, AGAIN. I'VE GOTTA GET AN ELECTRICAL BACK MASSAGER. I WANT MY OWN INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE I CAN GET 2 GRAND, TO PURCHASE ONE. But... don't do it once. Do it hundreds of times with hundreds of people! Keep doing it in the area of your interest till you get a job out of it. Remember, you are not a failure till you give up. And since you only need one job (at a time), the method works if you get that one job, regardless of how many letters you write. Hey, you have a computer, no? YES. Iterate! OK. Try different approaches! There is no one perfect way. See what your statistics are on replies. Like I said, I'd call a hundred people a day, talking to 30 - 35 each and every week day. > BRAINDEAD OKLAHOMA; AS DESCRIBED TO ME BEFORE, BY A FRIEND, WHO IS ALSO A SUCCESSFUL LOCAL SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, NEAR WHERE I LIVE. Does he need your skills? HE MIGHT. Does he know someone else who might? Ask him. Most of the good jobs are not advertised; they are created when a guy with the right talents needs a guy who needs those talents. That's why I always use the phone to get work. I find guys, call them, and get them to talk to me about their needs. > I AM OUT OF LOVE FOR TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA, BUT I FEEL TRAPPED. It's easy to feel trapped, Clyde. But who has the keys? Who is locking the door? (How many keys do you have on your keyring?) MY KEYS ARE SO GOD DAMNED, AND MAN DAMNED LIMITED. > Or are you a REAL mad scientist? One who's burning mission in life > is to do something useful for all humanity? (Or at least entertaining > to some segment of humanity?) > YEAH; THE TALKING CLOCK PROJECT IS ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND MY CONTINUED EFFORTS, TO THE POINT OF WHERE I FEEL LIKE PUNCHING PEOPLE THROUGH THEIR FACES, BECAUSE I WANT THE PROJECT DONE, AND DONE RIGHT; AND I WANT IT TO MAKE POSITIVE CHANGES IN THE BLIND COMMUNITIES, THE BROADCAST ENGINEERING COMMUNITY, AND IN THE AMATEUR RADIO REPEATER COMMUNITIES. Are you a ham radio operator? Do you have a ham license? YES. AT THE TIME THAT I FIRST RECEIVED MY LICENSE, IT WAS: NO CODE TECHNICIAN. AT THIS TIME, THE FASCIST COMMUN-ICATIONS COMMISSARIAT HAS CHANGED ITS TITLE TO JUST: TECHNICIAN. MY TWO METER ALINCO HANDIE TALKIE WAS STOLEN FROM MY CAR, WHEN I WAS BACK IN HIGH SCHOOL, IN 95'. I STILL HAVEN'T GOT BACK TO PURCHASING A REPLACEMENT FOR IT THOUGH. I ALWAYS WANTED TO OWN THE ICOM IC-2-SAT MODEL HANDHELD. I ALWAYS LIKED THAT DESIGN THE BEST OUT OF ALL HANDHELDS, BUT THE FUCKERS AT ICOM DISCONTINUED THAT MODEL. > THE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT IS FURTHERING ALONG. Good! > I'VE GOT ALL OF THE COIL FORMERS SILICONE R.T.V.'D, INTO PLACE. > I JUST NEED TO GET A LITTLE MORE SILICONE R.T.V; TO SILICONE THE MAGNET WIRE TO THE P.V.C. HELMET, BETWEEN THE FORMERS, TO FINALLY FINISH THE PROJECT, AND USE ELECTRICAL TAPE TO ALSO HELP OUT IN KEEPING IT ALL HELD TOGETHER. > I'D LIKE TO USE BANANA CONNECTORS, FOR EASY SETUP, AND EASY DISASSEMBLY WHEN USING THE HELMET, WHICH WOULD ALSO HELP, FOR NEATLY PUTTING IT AWAY WHILE IT ISN'T IN USE; MAYBE EVEN GETTING A CUSTOM CARRYING CASE, FOR THE STORAGE AND MOBILITY OF THE HELMET AS WELL, AND FOR CARRYING THE AUDIO GEN POSSIBLY AT THE SAME TIME TOO. My rig is just good enough. Sticks of wood, phono connector, etc. As cheap and fast as I could build it. That way, I got the benefits of having it very quickly. MY PRESENT EM. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT: MIND WARPER, MARK 1. > MY LOTUS FLOWER GROWING PROJECT IS CURRENTLY DEAD. > WHILE I HAD TO BE GONE TO THE HOSPITAL FOR TWO WEEKS, I PUT MY MOTHER IN CHARGE OF IT, AND HER BIMBO DUMBASS SCREWED IT UP, AND SHE KILLED THE SEEDLING THAT WAS SUCCESSFULLY GROWING. Some people have other talents... but I know what you mean. My mother is an artist, still living, now in her 90's. No engineering talent What So Ever! Not much intellectual talent either! Then again, some of her art work is hanging in Japan, Europe, and few other places. And a lot of it is really, really nice! Different people have different talents. Don't interpret others as if they were you. I'VE NOW GOTTA WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR, TO ATTEMPT THE GROWTH OF LOTUS FLOWERS, BECAUSE IT IS TOO FUCKING GODDAMNED LATE IN THE SUMMERTIME TO RETRY FOR THIS YEAR. I COULD BUILD A SMALL GREENHOUSE,,, THAT IS, IF I HAD THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO DO SO. THIS RUINED PROJECT ='S MY RUINED ATTITUDE. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/7988f548/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 21:32:49 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 21:32:58 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Dr. Blaylock: Cholesterol Drugs Linked to Cancer In-Reply-To: <48gu4i$1lsdsvm@xtinmta01.xt.local> Message-ID: <20050814043250.18392.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> "NewsMax.com" wrote:To view this email as a web page, go here. Health Alert from NewsMax.com Headlines (Scroll down for complete stories): Dr. Blaylock: Cholesterol Drugs Linked to Cancer Ultra Low Fat Diet May Inhibit Prostate Cancer British Doctors Prescribe Reading Rather than Prozac New Obesity Treatment: Stomach Implants 1. Dr. Blaylock: Cholesterol Drugs Linked to Cancer Dr. Russell Blaylock writes in his Blaylock Wellness Report: For the past several years there has been a propaganda blitz not seen since the government poisoned our drinking water with fluoride. This latest blitz began with misinformation implying that dietary cholesterol is the cause of arteriosclerosis (hardening of the arteries) and that only drugs can prevent heart attacks and strokes by lowering this cholesterol. The fact that 50 percent of all strokes and heart attacks have absolutely nothing to do with elevated cholesterol levels has been kept from the public eye and from physicians' medical education. Based on the buzz, you could conclude that if you solve your cholesterol problem, you won't suffer heart disease or a stroke. That is a big lie. But if you visit your doctor and have even slightly elevated cholesterol, he is quick to fill out a prescription for a statin drug such as Lipitor?, Mevacor?, Pravachol? and Zocor?. If you watch one of those Lipitor commercials, you'll think that you'll be taking a walk down the red carpet at a Hollywood premiere or still be diving into pools at 70 if you take Lipitor, so even if you don't need a statin, you may beg your doctor to write that prescription. What the public is not told is that the statin drugs are associated with major complications and side effects. These include depletion of the body's essential energy molecule coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10), which can lead to congestive heart failure, extreme muscle weakness, neurological disorders and even death. And all statin drugs have been associated with causing or promoting cancer in experimental animals. This is especially important since millions of Americans have been advised to take these drugs for the rest of their lives. It will take 20 years before the connection between the statins and a dramatic rise in cancer deaths becomes widely acknowledged - too late for many people! Get Dr. Blaylock's full report -- including details of the natural supplement that works in fighting cholesterol -- Go Here Now 2. Ultra Low Fat Diet May Inhibit Prostate Cancer A radical ultra low-fat diet and other lifestyle changes may help keep early-stage prostate cancer from worsening, says the first attempt to test the theory. It's a small study that tracked men whose tumors weren't aggressive. Still, the research, published in the September issue of The Journal of Urology, promises to increase interest in whether diet might really help battle cancer. The study was led by heart-health guru Dr. Dean Ornish, and used his famously strict regimen, where people become vegetarians, limit dietary fat to 10 percent of total calories, exercise regularly and learn stress-management techniques such as yoga. Ornish's studies show that regimen can help heart disease, but why try it on prostate cancer? There is some evidence that diets high in fat increase the risk of prostate cancer, and that certain foods - such as broccoli, or the nutrient lycopene from cooked tomato products - are protective. So Ornish and fellow researchers at the University of California, San Francisco, recruited 93 men who had decided against treatment for early-stage prostate cancer, a route known as "watchful waiting." Half were randomly assigned to the Ornish diet and lifestyle regimen; the others weren't asked to vary their usual routines. The researchers sent participants' blood samples to Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center in New York to measure PSA, or prostate specific antigen, a marker used to track prostate cancer growth. After one year, PSA levels had decreased 4 percent in the diet group _ unusual for untreated patients _ while PSA levels rose by 6 percent in the control group. That difference wasn't big but it's statistically significant, and the researchers plan to continue tracking the men to see if it really signals better health. Also, six of the non-dieters had undergone cancer treatment in that year after all, because their disease was progressing. None of the dieters were treated. Other cellular tests suggested the diet wasn't just affecting PSA production, Ornish said. "It's hard to get too excited about these results because you took a population of men who, frankly, are likely to do well no matter what," cautioned Dr. Durado Brooks of the American Cancer Society. But, "this definitely should open the door to more research." "This report undoubtedly will excite the aficionados and devotees of lifestyle changes for cancer but it should also give pause to the skeptics," wrote Dr. Paul Lange of the University of Washington in an accompanying editorial. Indeed, it comes just months after another study suggested low-fat diets might help women avoid a recurrence of breast cancer. Ornish stressed that his study, partly government-funded, doesn't mean men should opt for diet over conventional therapy. But these men weren't getting conventional treatment anyway, allowing a clearer test of dietary effects, he explained. The diet may help men undergoing therapy, too, he added. "I always find it amusing" that people call the diet hard, Ornish said. "Compared to having your prostate removed? ... The only side effects are you feel better and it helps prevent heart disease." More than 230,000 U.S. men are expected to be diagnosed with prostate cancer this year, and 29,500 will die, the cancer society estimates. ? 2005 The Associated Press Editor's Note: Find out the natural way to prevent Cancer -- Go Here Now 3. British Doctors Prescribe Reading Rather than Prozac British doctors have a new prescription for patients with mild to moderate depression - reading. Under a new program in the UK, patients are directed to self-help books such as "Overcoming Depression" and "How to Stop Worrying" instead of receiving prescriptions for anti-depressant drugs like Prozac. Doctors say they began prescribing books due to their concern that many patients were either being medicated too hastily or going untreated, according to the Wall Street Journal. The program, called "bibliotherapy," is also a cost-saving measure. The state-run health care system in the UK can't afford one-to-one counseling for everyone, and patients can wait as long as 18 months for an appointment. The National Institute for Clinical Excellence, a British health agency, endorsed bibliotherapy in December, recommending that physicians try self-help books or other kinds of counseling before medication. "Concerns about overuse of antidepressants - and about how to treat the growing depression burden in general - have been voiced in many countries, including the U.S., making the British experiment a test case for others to watch," the Post reports. Bibliotherapy has been used to treat thousands of patients and could reach 250,000 within a few years, according to Neil Frude, a psychologist who set up the first bibliotherapy program in Wales three years ago. In the UK most cases of mild to moderate depression are diagnosed by a general physician, who sends the patient to a mental-health worker. The worker prescribes a self-help book and meets with the patient several times to discuss the book and make sure the treatment is effective. The books being prescribed include several from the "Overcoming" series from publisher Constable & Robinson, such as "Overcoming Panic," "Overcoming Anxiety" and "Overcoming Childhood Trauma," plus "Mind Over Mood" and "The Relaxation and Stress Reduction Workbook." Sales of the "Overcoming" series will grow 20 to 25 percent this year thanks to bibliotherapy, according to the Post. But bibliotherapy is not without its risks. Patients may fail to read the books, and in a few cases severely depressed people have been directed to the self-help program when more serious treatment was required. Editor's Note: Omega-3 Can Cure Depression! Get the Report -- Go Here Now 4. New Obesity Treatment: Stomach Implants New stomach implants that can "trick" the body into feeling full could transform the way doctors treat obesity. A number of companies are in the process of developing implants that zap the stomach or certain nerves with an electric current and hopefully can regulate appetite signals or boost metabolism. The devices are intended for severely obese individuals and aren't aimed at the merely plump seeking to lose a few pounds, the Wall Street Journal reports. Researchers hope the gadgets will offer a less-risky alternative to major bariatric surgery, which involves reducing the size of the stomach, or bypassing parts of it. Such procedures can cost $20,000 or more, and by some estimates one in every 200 patients undergoing gastric bypass surgery dies. One implantable device, the Transcend II gastric stimulator, has been available in Europe since 2001 and is undergoing clinical trials in the U.S. In June, Medtronic - one of the world's largest medical-device makers - acquired Transneuronix, a New Jersey-based start-up company that developed the Transcend device. Medtronic is now shepherding the implant through the Food and Drug Administration's approval process, and it could be available in the U.S. by 2007. Medtronic is also recruiting patients for a trial involving obese people with Type 2 diabetes to gauge how weight loss affects diabetes. That research could help get health insurers to pay for the implant as a diabetes treatment, since some insurers don't cover treatments for obesity alone. Some patients from earlier Transcend trials have had the implant for 10 years, and have reported few side effects. Medtronic estimates the cost of the implant - including the device, surgery and a hospital stay - could be between $15,000 and $20,000. Doctors involved in studies of the Transcend estimate it will help only one-third to one-half of obese patients - binge eaters, for example, might continue eating even with the device, according to the Journal. But among those who do have success with the implant, the average patient has lost about 40 percent of excess body weight. The battery-powered device, about the size of a stopwatch, is inserted under the skin just below the rib cage with a two- to three-inch incision. Two wires from the implant are connected to the outer walls of the stomach and deliver low-level electrical impulses. "The electrical current appears to trigger the release of a ?satiety' chemical, which tells the brain that the stomach is full," the Journal explains. The impulse may also cause the stomach muscle to relax and distend as if full of food, tricking the body into feeling full. Other companies are also at work developing stomach implants to fight obesity. Leptos Biomedical of San Diego is working on a device that sends an electrical charge to certain nerves to boost metabolism. And California-based Intrapace is developing an implant that, like the Transcend, would deliver electricity to the stomach to trigger feelings of fullness. Editor's Notes: The natural supplement that works in fighting cholesterol -- Go Here Now Omega-3 Can Cure Depression! Get the Report -- Go Here Now Secret Health Exams Your Doctor Won't Tell You About Before Entering a Hospital -- Read This! Greenspan Warns of Housing Bush, Templeton Warns of Crash TO ADVERTISE For information on advertising at NewsMax.com, please contact Corrine McNurlin via e-mail or call 888-766-7542. TO SUBSCRIBE If this News Alert has been forwarded to you and you would like a subscription, please visit: http://www.newsmax.com/email.shtml Sign up for NewsMax e-mail alerts today! To remove your e-mail address from our list or to modify your profile, Go Here. We respect your right to privacy. View our policy. This email was sent to: clydelofton@yahoo.com This email was sent by: NewsMax.com 4152 West Blue Heron Blvd, Ste 1114 Riviera Beach, FL, 33404 USA 1615188 --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/dab784c8/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 22:01:12 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 22:01:21 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Steps to Become Heart Healthy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050814050113.30426.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> NewsMax Media wrote: Health Alert from NewsMax.com Headlines (Scroll down for complete stories): Steps to Become Heart Healthy Study: Virtual Colonoscopy Better than Invasive Procedure Study Says Echinacea Doesn't Help Colds Citing Human Threat, U.S. Bans a Poultry Drug 1. Steps to Become Heart Healthy Making the right decisions about heart health is a complex task made even harder by the rapidly evolving advice that emerges from medical research. To help consumers make the hard decisions they face in trying to shield their hearts, the independent, unbiased health experts at Consumer Reports on Health (CRH) have reviewed the recent findings and medical evidence behind new recommendations. For example, an advisory panel recently recommended that the government strengthen its already aggressive cholesterol guidelines, a move that could put millions of Americans on cholesterol-lowering medication and cause those already taking it to boost the dosage or switch to stronger, potentially riskier drugs. The new guidelines make lifestyle changes more essential than ever, since they can minimize the need for high doses or possibly let people avoid medication entirely. Here are some highlights -- and trusted advice -- from the July issue?s cover report, "The New Do's and Don'ts for Protecting Your Heart": Do consider CRP: Research has strengthened the connection between heart disease and C-reactive protein (CRP), a marker of arterial inflammation. Consumer Reports on Health?s medical consultants say that knowing your CRP level can help you make the decision about how best to follow the new, aggressive recommendations for lowering cholesterol levels. Medical evidence shows that an elevated CRP pushes people into a higher-risk group that justifies more aggressive cholesterol-cutting therapy. Most people with moderate or high coronary risk should consider getting their CRP levels tested. The CRP test requires a small blood sample and costs less than $50. CRP was first recommended by Dr. Blaylock in his Blaylock Wellness Report. Dr. Blaylock says that CRP is more indicative of heart attack or stroke risk than cholesterol. Find out about this test by Going Here Now. Do get the right cholesterol-cutting drugs. Virtually all people who need to get their LDL ("bad" cholesterol) down to the lowest level will need medication. Many others will too if lifestyle steps don't suffice. Don't let ads mislead you. Conflicting drug-ad campaigns can confuse consumers and possibly produce inappropriate choices. Do start with generic lovastatin in most cases. People who require just a moderate LDL reduction (less than 40 percent) should usually start with lovastatin, which has the longest safety record and lowest cost ($28 to $40 per month) of any statin. Do consider stronger medicine if necessary. Individuals who need larger LDL reductions (40 percent or more) or have very high coronary risk because of factors such as heart disease or diabetes should generally take the more powerful drug atorvastatin (Lipitor). It costs $117 per month, but it has a longer safety record than another statin with comparable efficacy plus a proven ability to reduce both heart-attack risk and total mortality. Don't overlook the last resorts. If moderate doses of atorvastatin don't suffice, you could either try the highest dose or switch to combination therapy. Do watch for adverse effects. That's especially important if you're taking a statin at a high dose or together with other cholesterol-cutting drugs. Call your doctor immediately if your muscles become achy, tender, or weak, because in rare cases statins harm the muscles, releasing a protein that can fatally damage the kidneys. Do get the right blood-pressure medication. Recent studies have led some experts to urge that treatment guidelines be revised in favor of newer drugs, but CRH?s medical consultants say that's premature. Do start with a diuretic in most cases. People with high blood pressure should usually start drug therapy with a diuretic, such as hydrochlorothiazide. Do add another drug if necessary. If the diuretic doesn't reduce blood pressure enough, a second drug is needed -- usually a beta-blocker or ACE inhibitor. But a calcium channel blocker or other medication is sometimes appropriate. Do diet and exercise. It's more important than ever since it can help people reach the new LDL levels with only moderate drug doses. Some disciplined individuals with a high LDL might get by with non-drug steps alone. Work out regularly and control your weight. Don't overlook omega-3s. Those fatty acids -- supplied primarily by fatty fish -- can reduce heart attack risk. Do consider soy and sterols, which can reduce LDL. Do manage your emotions. Maintaining good emotional health -- by treating depression, curbing anger, relaxing and even just laughing -- may be nearly as important for preventing heart attack and stroke as proper diet and exercise. CRH provides a table to help people find their LDL treatment plan, based on risk factors from high to low, and summarizes their recommendations based on a government advisory panel's suggestions and growing medical evidence. Editor?s Note: Dr. Blaylock offers contrarian advice about statin, anti-cholesterol medications -- Go Here Now 2. Study: Virtual Colonoscopy Better than Invasive Procedure Virtual colonoscopy, an increasingly popular technique that uses CT scans instead of invasive endoscopy to identify colon polyps, can identify many medical problems outside the colon, making it a more valuable tool than researchers had previously believed, the Los Angeles Times reports. In 500 men undergoing virtual colonoscopy, 45 had significant problems outside the colon, including aneurysms and cancers, researchers from UC San Francisco report today in the journal Radiology. "We found that virtual colonoscopy can detect cancers and other conditions that would be missed with conventional colonoscopy with a negligible radiation risk, roughly comparable to that of a routine CT scan of the abdomen," said the principal author, Dr. Judy Yee, a radiologist at UC San Francisco. Although the American Cancer Society recommends that all Americans, even those without cancer histories in their families, be screened regularly for colon cancer beginning at age 50, less than 30% do, partly because of the length and discomfort of conventional colonoscopies. Virtual colonoscopy ? in which doctors scan a patient's colon with 20 seconds of X-rays ? is far less invasive than conventional colonoscopy, in which a patient is obliged to down a salty solution of laxatives before being sedated for a procedure in which a long flexible tube is inserted. Editor's Note: Find out Secret Health Exams that Can Save Your Life 3. Study Says Echinacea Doesn't Help Colds New research finds that taking the popular herbal remedy echinacea does nothing to treat or prevent colds. The federally funded study was what fans and foes of such substances say they have long needed - rigorous, scientific testing. It found that patients who took an echinacea plant extract fared no better than those who took a dummy treatment. "Our study ... adds to the accumulating evidence that suggests that the burden of proof should lie with those who advocate this treatment," wrote Dr. Ronald Turner of the University of Virginia School of Medicine, who led the study, which appeared in Thursday's New England Journal of Medicine. Echinacea, or purple coneflower, is sold over-the-counter in pills, drops and lozenges. With reported annual sales of more than $300 million, echinacea is one of the most popular medicinal herbs used by people to treat colds. Several animal studies and small human trials have pointed to the possible benefit of the herb in preventing respiratory infections. However, one of largest studies - involving 407 children in 2003 - found that echinacea failed to alleviate cold symptoms and even caused mild skin rashes in some cases. In the newest experiment, researchers recruited 399 healthy patients who got one of three laboratory-made echinacea plant extracts or a dummy preparation. The patients were then exposed to the cold virus and their symptoms were evaluated. Scientists found no difference in infection rates between the groups who received the herb or placebo. About 90 percent in both groups wound up becoming infected. Symptoms like sneezing, runny noses and sore throat were also about the same, with more than half in both groups showing classic signs of a clinical cold. The study was funded by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, part of the federal National Institutes of Health. Turner, the lead researcher, has consulted for various antibiotic makers. In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Wallace Sampson, an emeritus clinical professor of medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine, questioned why the government is wasting tax dollars on funding alternative medicine studies, some of which have turned out to be nothing but snake oil. "Research into implausible remedies rarely produces useful information," wrote Sampson, who was not connected to the study. But Mark Blumenthal, executive director of the American Botanical Council, an independent group that studies herbs, said people should not dismiss echinacea as a cold remedy. Blumenthal pointed out that the extract used in the latest study was prepared in the lab and not sold in stores. He also added that the herb might work better if higher doses were used. "This is not a definitive trial on the efficacy of echinacea, nor should the results be generalized to echinacea preparations widely available," he said. ? 2005 The Associated Press 4. Citing Human Threat, U.S. Bans a Poultry Drug The Food and Drug Administration said Thursday that it was banning the use of the antibiotic Baytril in poultry because of concerns that it could lead to antibiotic-resistant infections in people. The agency's commissioner, Lester M. Crawford, ordered that approval for use of the drug, known generically as enrofloxacin, be withdrawn effective Sept. 12. Baytril, manufactured by Bayer of Leverkusen, Germany, is in the same family as the popular drug Cipro, which is used in humans. Dr. Crawford cited particular concerns about campylobacter bacteria, a growing source of serious illness in humans. Antibiotics used to treat the bacteria can be less effective if the germ has already developed resistance to Baytril, the agency said. Margaret Mellon, director of food and environment at the Union of Concerned Scientists, said, "It's the first time F.D.A. has withdrawn a veterinary drug on the basis of antibiotic resistance concerns, fearing that use of the drug in animals is going to erode the effectiveness of the drugs in human medicine." Campylobacter is commonly found in the intestinal tracts of turkeys and chickens, where it does not generally cause illness, Dr. Crawford said in his order. Use of enrofloxacin in poultry does not eliminate campylobacter from the birds, but instead results in the development of bacteria resistant to this type of drug, he said. Resistant bacteria may be present in poultry sold at retail outlets. Dr. Crawford noted that since the drug was introduced for poultry in the 1990's, the proportion of resistant campylobacter infections in humans has risen significantly. That can prolong the length of infections in people and increase the risk of complications, he said. Complications can include reactive arthritis and blood stream infections. A Bayer spokesman, Bob Walker, said company officials were reviewing the ruling from a scientific and legal position before deciding whether to appeal it. Bayer has 60 days to appeal Dr. Crawford's decision to a federal appeals court. According to the interest group Keep Antibiotics Working, many top poultry producers have announced that they no longer use such drugs in chickens produced for human consumption. Such producers include Tyson, Gold Kist, ConAgra, Perdue, Foster Farms and Claxton. Major chicken buyers, including McDonald's, Wendy's, Dairy Queen and Burger King, have instructed their suppliers to stop using this class of drugs in chickens they buy. Editor's Note: Toxins in your food are damaging your brain -- prevent Alzheimer's, Parkinson's -- Go Here Now Editor?s Notes: Dr. Blaylock offers contrarian advice about statin, anti-cholesterol medications -- Go Here Now Find out Secret Health Exams that Can Save Your Life Toxins in your food are damaging your brain -- prevent Alzheimer's, Parkinson's -- Go Here Now. Protect Yourself from the Coming Housing Bust, Take Templeton's Advice Edward Klein's "Truth About Hillary" FREE Offer -- Go Here Now TO ADVERTISE For information on advertising at NewsMax.com, please contact Corrine McNurlin via e-mail or call 888-766-7542. TO SUBSCRIBE If this News Alert has been forwarded to you and you would like a subscription, please visit http://NewsMax.com/email.shtml Sign up for free e-mail alerts today! This e-mail brought to you by: NewsMax Media, Inc. 4152 W. Blue Heron Blvd. Riviera Beach, FL 33404 --------------------------------- You are currently subscribed to 1236_nm_a as: clydelofton@yahoo.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-1236_nm_a-4584423B@newsmax.sparklist.com --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/4e470a44/attachment-0001.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 22:03:08 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 22:03:13 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050814042954.29916.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 13, 2005 09:29:54 PM Message-ID: <20050814050308.77663.qmail@mall-net.com> > (I'd love to find a cheap dome home!) > > I NEED AN ALUMINUM GEODOME THAT IS WELDED ONE PIECE, AND BUILT > WITH TANK STRENGTH, WITH MINIMAL TO ZERO MAINTENANCE. I just need something cheap and easy enough to set up, take down, and move. Land keeps getting sold out from under me up here in the mountains, for prices that sound more and more ridiculous! > (ENVIRON)MENTAL HEALTH/PHYSICAL HEALTH IS A FIRST PRIORITY. > > ANTI-LIBERAL NEWSPAPERS FOR COLORADO SPRINGS AND FORT COLLINS > ARE WHAT I NEED TO READ. > > I'M TAKING OFF FOR COLRADO, NEXT MONTH, ON THE GREYHOUND, TO SCOUT > OUT NEW TERRITORY, AND BULLDOZING ALL OTHER PRIORITIES TO THE SIDE > FOR THE MONTH OF SEPTEMBER. Do it first on the web. You can get a lot more information checking out the newspapers and radio stations on the web. And a lot more cheaply. > It's not that bad. Like I keep telling you, you need to go out > each morning looking for something NICE, INTERESTING to frame, > photograph, or write about. > > I DON'T SEE ANYTHING BEAUTIFUL IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUMBURB > ANYMORE, IF I EVEN EVER DID IN THE FIRST PLACE. Seek and yea shall find. > > CLIMB IT, AND/OR NUCLEAR BLAST THROUGH IT, TO GET THINGS DONE, FOR THE BETTERMENT! > > Never blast! If you destroy, everyone will be against you. If you > help others, people will help you. > > BLASTING IS A NECESSITY AT TIMES, IN MY DEFILED LIFE. I've never gotten anywhere when I blasted. Once you harden your attitude, everything around you becomes impossible. Um, sort of like you are finding now. > But, not all work environments are good. Some managers are a* H*'s! > > MY MANAGER WAS AS COOL AS COOL CAN BE, BUT SHE COULDN'T > TAKE ALL OF THE OVERWHELMING BURDEN THAT WAS PILED ON HER, > FROM THE ENDLESS STACKS OF STORE OVERSTOCK. > MY MANAGER JUST QUIT LAST WEEK, DUE TO ALL OF THE FUCKING > GODDAMNED AND MANDAMNED ENDLESS OVERWHELMING STRESS, AND > THE FOREVER GO NOWHERE FAST-NESS OF THIS EMPTY EMPIRE, OF > TULSA. Well, you might get a better, or worse manager. Are you in any position to move up the ladder at work? > I NEED TO FIND EMPLOYMENT IN COLORADO SPRINGS, OR FORT COLLINS, > AND I ALSO NEED TO FIND PEACE IN MY LIFE, EQUALLY AS WELL. > I DID SEND THE TRITE MARKET STUDY FOR THE BLIND FOR THE TALKING > CLOCK, TO THE ADMINISTRATOR, AT THE NEBRASKA COMMISSION FOR > THE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED. Oh. A state run organization. Um... I doubt anything will come of that. You need to reach blind people, not people who manage blind people. State workers are usually not very motivated to do anything. > I WAS JUST TOO WORN OUT YESTERDAY AFTER WORK, TO SEND A FOLLOW UP > E-MAIL LETTER TO THE ADMIN., AND SO IT IS SHELVED AT THIS MOMENT, DUE TO SO > MUCH PAIN RIGHT NOW. What kind of pain do you have? Where? And do you know why? > I WANT MY OWN INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE > I CAN GET 2 GRAND, TO PURCHASE ONE. > > BRAINDEAD OKLAHOMA; AS DESCRIBED TO ME BEFORE, BY A FRIEND, WHO IS > ALSO A SUCCESSFUL LOCAL SMALL BUSINESS OWNER, NEAR WHERE I LIVE. > > Does he need your skills? > > HE MIGHT. > > Does he know someone else who might? Remember to ask that. > It's easy to feel trapped, Clyde. But who has the keys? Who is > locking the door? (How many keys do you have on your keyring?) > > MY KEYS ARE SO GOD DAMNED, AND MAN DAMNED LIMITED. What I mean is that you lock yourself into your traps. Not just you! We all do! The trick is to be able to laugh at yourself, for after that good laugh, you feel better, refreshed, and ready figure out a smarter way of trying to do it. > Are you a ham radio operator? Do you have a ham license? > > YES. > > AT THE TIME THAT I FIRST RECEIVED MY LICENSE, IT WAS: NO CODE > TECHNICIAN. I am not quite sure of the hierarchy, isn't that a fairly high rank? Kind of a repairman status, someone who would be employed as the lead on a ship? > I ALWAYS WANTED TO OWN THE ICOM IC-2-SAT MODEL HANDHELD. > I ALWAYS LIKED THAT DESIGN THE BEST OUT OF ALL HANDHELDS, BUT THE FUCKERS AT ICOM DISCONTINUED THAT MODEL. Things change. More features. > My rig is just good enough. Sticks of wood, phono connector, etc. > As cheap and fast as I could build it. That way, I got the benefits of > having it very quickly. > > MY PRESENT EM. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT: MIND WARPER, MARK 1. Good, I'm very much interested in what it does for you. > > MY LOTUS FLOWER GROWING PROJECT IS CURRENTLY DEAD. > WHILE I HAD TO BE > GONE TO THE HOSPITAL FOR TWO WEEKS, I PUT MY MOTHER IN CHARGE OF IT, AND > HER BIMBO DUMBASS SCREWED IT UP, AND SHE KILLED THE SEEDLING THAT WAS > I'VE NOW GOTTA WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR, TO ATTEMPT THE GROWTH OF LOTUS > FLOWERS, BECAUSE IT IS TOO FUCKING GODDAMNED LATE IN THE SUMMERTIM Plants base their sense of time on the length of the day and night. You can fake some of this by using appropriate timers. E > TO RETRY FOR THIS YEAR. > I COULD BUILD A SMALL GREENHOUSE,,, THAT IS, IF I HAD THE FINANCIAL > RESOURCES TO DO SO. A little bit of lumber and some polyethylene plastic... Professional greenhouses are built of that all the time. > THIS RUINED PROJECT ='S MY RUINED ATTITUDE. There are plenty of other interesting things to do. Too many other interesting things to do! -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 13 22:09:10 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 13 22:09:14 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Steps to Become Heart Healthy In-Reply-To: <20050814050113.30426.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 13, 2005 10:01:12 PM Message-ID: <20050814050910.81457.qmail@mall-net.com> > NewsMax Media wrote: > Health Alert from NewsMax.com > > Headlines (Scroll down for complete stories): > > Steps to Become Heart Healthy Cholesterol cutting drugs, advocated in the article, have been shown to cause more harm than good. Lowering cholesterol is actually easy -- get enough vitamins and eat fresh or steamed veggies while avoiding meats. > Study Says Echinacea Doesn't Help Colds The study has been widely reported as junk! They used too low doses to mean anything and did not even use the correct species. Sounds like this newsmax media thing is just reprinting press releases favoring the pharm industry. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 13 23:44:40 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 13 23:44:48 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <20050814050308.77663.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050814064440.50965.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: Well, you might get a better, or worse manager. Are you in any position to move up the ladder at work? I PROBABLY AM, BUT AM ONLY INTERESTED IN THE POSITION OF WHERE I AM CURRENTLY AT; ALTHOUGH I WOULD LIKE A RAISE. > I NEED TO FIND EMPLOYMENT IN COLORADO SPRINGS, OR FORT COLLINS, > AND I ALSO NEED TO FIND PEACE IN MY LIFE, EQUALLY AS WELL. > DUE TO SO MUCH PAIN RIGHT NOW. What kind of pain do you have? Where? And do you know why? BACK PAINS, AND CHEST PAINS, AND FAR TOO MUCH OVERWHELMING HYPERTENSION STRESS. I DESPERATELY NEED HELP, AND PEACE: BADLY. I AM NOT GETTING IT. THE DOCTORS OF CONVENTION SHIT ARE FAILING ME; BOTH MY PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN, AND MY PSYCHIATRIST. THEY ARE NOT BEING HONEST. THEY WANT ME OVERDRUGGED, WITH THEIR GARBAGE DRUGS. > I WANT MY OWN INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE > I CAN GET 2 GRAND, TO PURCHASE ONE. I WANT AN INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE. I WANT AN INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE. GODDAMNIT; I WANT MY OWN INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE. AND I WANT IT AND NEED IT SOON. > AT THE TIME THAT I FIRST RECEIVED MY LICENSE, IT WAS: NO CODE > TECHNICIAN. I am not quite sure of the hierarchy, isn't that a fairly high rank? TECHNICIAN IS JUST ABOVE THE NOVICE LICENSE. NOVICE HAMS ARE REQUIRED TO LEARN MORSE CODE. I DIDN'T HAVE THE MOTIVATION TO LEARN MORSE CODE. I DO WISH THOUGH, THAT THE PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS WOULD TEACH MORSE CODE IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, AS A SECONDARY FORM OF COMMUNICATION, FOR ALL STUDENTS, DURING THE STAGE OF LEARNING OF WHERE IT COMES EASIER. Kind of a repairman status, someone who would be employed as the lead on a ship? MAYBE; BUT THAT ISN'T MY INTEREST. I WANT TO BUILD MY OWN SPACE SHIP, AND LEAVE THIS DAMNED PLANET, IN ABSOLUTE PEACE, FOREVER. > I ALWAYS WANTED TO OWN THE ICOM IC-2-SAT MODEL HANDHELD. > I ALWAYS LIKED THAT DESIGN THE BEST OUT OF ALL HANDHELDS, BUT THE FUCKERS AT ICOM DISCONTINUED THAT MODEL. Things change. More features. I WANTED THAT SPECIFIC MODEL; THE ICOM IC-2-SAT AND NOTHING ELSE; WITH ZERO EXCEPTIONS. > My rig is just good enough. Sticks of wood, phono connector, etc. > As cheap and fast as I could build it. That way, I got the benefits of > having it very quickly. > > MY PRESENT EM. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT: MIND WARPER, MARK 1. Good, I'm very much interested in what it does for you. I HAVE BEEN PONDERING ABOUT WHAT AMPLITUDE WOULD BE SAFE TO START OUT WITH. WHAT IF I AMPED UP THE E.M. FIELD WITH MY AUDIO POWER AMPLIFIER? WOULD IT PUT ME TO SLEEP AT WILL, IF THAT IS MY WISH TO DO IT THAT WAY? ALTHOUGH, IF I DID AMP IT UP, I WORRY THAT ALL 60 CYCLE INDUCTION WOULD CAUSE WAY TO MUCH 60 HZ. BRAINWAVE INTERFERENCE AND DISTORTION, AND DO SOMETHING NEGATIVE TO MY MIND, AND PERHAPS TO MY BODY AS WELL. MAYBE NOT??? I NEED AN ELECTRICALLY QUIET ATMOSPHERE, WITH ONLY D.C. POWER AS THE CONTINUOUS DUTY SOURCE, ISOLATED FROM ALL 60 CYCLE POWER SUPPLY/SUPPLIES, AND ISOLATED FROM THE POWER MAINS AS WELL. > > MY LOTUS FLOWER GROWING PROJECT IS CURRENTLY DEAD. > WHILE I HAD TO BE > GONE TO THE HOSPITAL FOR TWO WEEKS, I PUT MY MOTHER IN CHARGE OF IT, AND > HER BIMBO DUMBASS SCREWED IT UP, AND SHE KILLED THE SEEDLING THAT WAS > I'VE NOW GOTTA WAIT UNTIL NEXT YEAR, TO ATTEMPT THE GROWTH OF LOTUS > FLOWERS, BECAUSE IT IS TOO FUCKING GODDAMNED LATE IN THE SUMMERTIME Plants base their sense of time on the length of the day and night. You can fake some of this by using appropriate timers. YEAH; THAT IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO. USE INTERMATIC TIMERS, CONTROLLING THE ON/OFF TIME OF A METAL HALIDE LAMP, WITH HUMIDISTATS, AND THERMOSTATS, AND ALSO; AUTOMATIC (CONSTANT) WATER LEVEL SUSTAINMENT, IN A SMALL GREENHOUSE ECOLOGY / ATMOSPHERE, THROUGHOUT THE FALL AND WINTERTIME SEASONS, SINCE I AM SETBACK FOUR MONTHS NOW. PROJECT COMPLETION WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED BACK IN MARCH, FOR BOTH THE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT PROJECT, AND FOR THE LOTUS FLOWER PROJECT. > TO RETRY FOR THIS YEAR. > I COULD BUILD A SMALL GREENHOUSE,,, THAT IS, IF I HAD THE FINANCIAL > RESOURCES TO DO SO. A little bit of lumber and some polyethylene plastic... YEAH; I HAVE CONSIDERED THAT ROUTE. ALTHOUGH I DON'T KNOW IF I COULD GET ALL OF THE GREENHOUSE ATMOSPHERIC CONTROLS TO FUNCTION AUTOMATICALLY, AND WITHOUT FAIL, 24/7, THROUGHOUT THE FALL AND THE WINTER. Professional greenhouses are built of that all the time. > THIS RUINED PROJECT ='S MY RUINED ATTITUDE. There are plenty of other interesting things to do. Too many other interesting things to do! I'M OUT OF PROJECTS TO DO, OTHER THAN THOSE PROJECTS. POVERTY IS SOMETHING THAT I CANNOT OVERCOME; EDU-FUCKTION SUPPRESSES THINGS THAT I WANT TO LEARN AND TO KNOW. I WANT TO LEARN SO MUCH. THE COST OF EXTRACURRICULAR EDUCATION HAS ALSO BECOME MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE, SINCE I GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL IN 95'. AND MY PERFECTIONISM AND BEING A STICKLER FOR QUALITY, HINDERS MY ACTUAL PROGRESS. I AM DETERMINED THOUGH, TO DO THOSE PROJECTS TO THEIR FINAL, AND PERFECT COMPLETIONS. BUT THE LACK OF MONEY, AND LIKEWISE, THE LACK OF THE RESOURCES THAT I NEED, FOR PERFECT PROJECT COMPLETIONS, ARE GIVING ME SEVERE STRESS. THE ONLY DOCTOR THAT IS SUITING MY NEEDS THE BEST, IS THE CHIROPRACTOR. THE LOWER MIDDLE CLASS IS WHAT I WAS BORN INTO, AND I FUCKING HATE IT, AND I AM SICK OF IT, AND I WANT TO TRANSCEND IT, IN PEACE. IT IS MY WILL TO RISE ABOVE, BUT I JUST DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DO SO. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050813/980c8232/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 00:16:43 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 00:16:50 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY. Message-ID: <20050814071643.8185.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY: 1. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock048/s1458006-photo 2. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock040/s1405023-photo THE YAHOO SEARCH ENGINE KEY WORDS ARE: CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY. I AM SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT; AND THESE TWO ARTWORKS ARE A PERFECT DEPICTION AS TO WHY I AM SO SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT. CONVENTION SHIT DOCTORS ARE: 1. LIARS IN MANY CASES. 2. THEY ARE NOT ENTIRELY HONEST IN MANY CASES. AND: 3. THEY ARE HIGHLY NEGLECTFUL OF HEALTH NEEDS, FOR MANY, AND/OR MOST PEOPLE, IN MANY CASES. CLYDE LOFTON __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/c5bc35c9/attachment-0001.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Sun Aug 14 14:31:53 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 14 14:32:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism Message-ID: <99.646d86bc.30311249@aol.com> In a message dated 8/11/2005 1:37:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: Science classes should be about science. I took history courses too, > but I discussed politics in my government class, not my history class, > even if politics influence history greatly, politics belongs in the > politics class, and history in the history class. I am wondering where you all went to school? My minor education, in New England as I look back, covered all the above in all classes. Example, how to teach about the civil war in the U.S. in a history class with out mentioning the scientific advances in the weapons used in combat ? The advances in medicine from treating the wounded. The new , on the scene, photographic equipment, the telegram system, also new to the age. This is science, right ? Politics and religion began and ended the war. History class would be empty without religion and politics to explain why humans did what they did at any time in history. Even music class came into this history, as the Battle Hymn Of The Republic , Jonnie Comes Marching Home Again, and dozens if not hundreds of churched songs sung to this day were inspired and created. Geography became a big part of the Civil War class, as did civics class as we learned of the draft riots in N.Y. that killed hundreds. I have had some dealings with well educated people ? Unfortunately their learning was in nuclear power and how to use it. They could use the power, make it jump and or dance for them. Did they know about the first man on earth to envision an atom? Did they have any idea what miss- use of the power could bring. Did they look beyond today and think of tomorrows usage? Nope, they thought of themselves as scientists but were really just technicians and lazy ones at that. Their education was I believe a boxed knowledge as Mr. Javilk indorses. I do not believe one can learn anything in a box, one must learn all they can about whatever from all sides to the subject. Another example, I know about Massachusetts, Thanksgiving day, I can pick it out on a map etc. this is history and geography, what class does this go in to be taught? Wait a minute, here's another twist, the whole state of Maine was once Massachusetts, with 25 miles of New Hampshire coming between the state. Who did the surveying of the land to decide where what state was where ? Science and geography, politics, and religion there, don't forget how Rhode Island began, religion and politics. My interest is baking, I don't just follow a recipie, i go whole hog. My interest is how humans can bake or cook in space. I want to know how people can cook on Mars or on an extended flight to the stars------ is it even possible ???? Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/52791e37/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 17:49:11 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 17:49:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Steps to Become Heart Healthy In-Reply-To: <20050814050910.81457.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050815004911.10072.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > Steps to Become Heart Healthy Cholesterol cutting drugs, advocated in the article, have been shown to cause more harm than good. PROBABLY: I'VE LOST MOST ALL OF MY FAITH IN BOTH DRUGS, AND IN PRESRIPTION DRUGS, AND IN THE MAINSTREAM DOCTORS, AND IN THE INSURANCE INDUSTRIES, AND IN THE PHARMACOLOGY DICTATORSHIP, AND THE IN FINANCIAL DICTATORSHIP, AND IN THE ENERGY POWER CONTROL DICTATORSHIP, AND IN THE BANKING ESTABLISHMENT DICTATORSHIP, AND IN THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX, AND IN GOD, AND IN GOVERNMENT. ALL OF THESE FUCKING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS HAVE SO MANY SO-CALLED SIDE EFFECTS, WHICH ARE ACTUALLY DIRECT EFFECTS, THAT SCREW EVERYONE UP. Lowering cholesterol is actually easy -- get enough vitamins and eat fresh or steamed veggies while avoiding meats. I NEED TO OVERDOSE ON ALL OF THE RIGHT VITAMINS NOW. ESPECIALLY THE ONE'S THAT NULLIFY CERTAIN PARTS OF THE HUMAN NEUROLOGY > Study Says Echinacea Doesn't Help Colds. The study has been widely reported as junk! They used too low doses to mean anything and did not even use the correct species. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING PERTANING TO ECINACEA. Sounds like this newsmax media thing is just reprinting press releases favoring the pharm industry. THE MEDICAL PHRAUD PHUNNY PHARM INDUSTRY. FUCK EM' ALL; I'M SICK OF ALL OF THEIR GODDAMNED SHIT, AND SICK OF ALL OF THE GODDAMNED SHIT FROM ALL OF THE OTHERS THAT I LISTED ABOVE, AS WELL. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/2d63f684/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 17:56:40 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 17:56:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050814221637.90541.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815005640.59311.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> REVISED FROM THE OTHER DAY: MICRO TURBINE POWER MEMS, AND CARBON FLYWHEEL POWER STORAGE BATTERIES ARE OTHER INTERESTS. 1. REDUNDANT, GASOLINE POWERED MEMS; (MICRO ELECTRO-MECHANICAL SYSTEMS), TO OPERATE REDUNDANTLY, AND 24/7, FOR A PERFECT MICRO POWER PLANT FACILITY. I WONDER IF THEY CAN BE SUCCESSFULLY OPERATED ON BIODIESEL??? ANYONE KNOW??? BIODIESEL WOULD BE MUCH PREFERRED, OVER GASOLINE. (CAPSTONE AND INGERSOL RAND MICROTURBINES ARE FINANCIALLY OUT OF REACH FOR ME). A. http://mmae.iit.edu/atesr_lab/PowerMEMS.html B. http://www.ttivanguard.com/montrealreconn/powerMEMS.pdf C. http://microfluids.engin.brown.edu/Breuer_Papers/Conferences/AIAA97-1773_Microengine.pdf#search='MICRO%20TURBINE%20POWER%20MEMS' D. http://www.stormingmedia.us/44/4465/A446583.html E. http://smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian/issues02/jul02/phenomena.html F. http://robots.net/article/1319.html G. http://me.mit.edu/NewsandCalendar/Data/0503111430Sesptein.htm 2. CARBON COMPOSITE FLYWHEEL, KINETIC POWER STORAGE BATTERIES. A. http://www.geocities.com/dfradella/homepage.htm B. http://rpm2.8k.com/basics.htm C. http://www.newswise.com/articles/view?id=FLYBATT.IEE D. http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/seta/2002/05/16/stories/2002051600130200.htm E. http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/byP/batP/batt/btora/bType/fly/fly.shtml F. http://www.lerc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/2003/7000/7725Konno.html G. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/apr02/fly.html H. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/publicfeature/apr02/flysb1.html I. http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov/general_info/flywheel.html J. http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/viewSelectedArticle.asp?strArticleId=56579&strSite=MDSite&Screen=CURRENTISSUE K. http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6473980 L. http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/WEBONLY/pressrelease/0402/0402fly.pdf#search='flywheel%20batteries' M. http://regen.0catch.com/facts.htm N. http://rpm2.8k.com/compare.htm O. http://www.aspes.ch/faq.html P. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/battery-01a.html Q. http://www.upei.ca/~physics/p261/projects/flywheel1/flywheel1.htm R. http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_flywheel_technology_helps/ S. http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_cure_battery_blues/ T. http://www.nasaexplores.com/show2_articlea.php?id=04-015 THERE ARE SO MANY MORE WEBSITES THAT I COULD LIST, PERTAINING TO FLYWHEEL BATTERIES. BUT IT IS JUST TOO OVERWHELMING TO LIST ANY MORE. YAHOO SEARCH ENGINE KEY WORDS: FLYWHEEL BATTERIES. SINCERELY, CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/40a2e9b4/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 14 18:28:58 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 14 18:29:25 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: <99.646d86bc.30311249@aol.com> from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 14, 2005 05:31:53 PM Message-ID: <20050815012858.47533.qmail@mall-net.com> > Science classes should be about science. I took history courses too, > > but I discussed politics in my government class, not my history class, > > even if politics influence history greatly, politics belongs in the > > politics class, and history in the history class. That is how stupidity is taught. > I am wondering where you all went to school? > My minor education, in New England as I look back, covered all the above > in all classes. The way they should! > Example, how to teach about the civil war in the U.S. in a history class > with out mentioning the scientific advances in the weapons used in combat ? > The advances in medicine from treating the wounded. The new , on the scene, > photographic equipment, the telegram system, also new to the age. This > is science, right ? Right! All of that contributed to the way things turned out. We should also at least review some of General Grant's precise orders, the way they do in Westpoint, vs the florid writing of the time. Grant's clarity is part of why the north won. > I have had some dealings with well educated people ? Unfortunately their > learning was in nuclear power and how to use it. They could use the power, Probably military style education. Narrow as all heck! > to envision an atom? Did they have any idea what miss- use of the power > could bring. Did they look beyond today and think of tomorrows usage? Nope, > they thought of themselves as scientists but were really just technicians and > lazy ones at that. Their education was I believe a boxed knowledge as > Mr. Javilk indorses. I certainly do not endorse narrow boxed education! Most of my real education was reading scientific and technical trade magazines. Sure, I went to school! Organic chem, computer science, etc. But once past the very fundamentals, the real education was the trade journals and some of the stuff my friends and I talked about and tried. > I do not believe one can learn anything in a box, one must learn all they > can about whatever from all sides to the subject. Yes! Ye wouldn't be mad scientists if we thought in the box, would we? > My interest is baking, I don't just follow a recipie, i go whole hog. My > interest is how humans can bake or cook in space. I want to know how people > can cook on Mars or on an extended flight to the stars------ is it even > possible ???? Microwaves... is that really cooling cooking? I mean, sure, it's the applicatin of energy to heat food. But do chef's really consider it cooking cooking? If not, why not? -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 14 19:02:25 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 14 19:02:30 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050815005640.59311.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 14, 2005 05:56:40 PM Message-ID: <20050815020225.64626.qmail@mall-net.com> > MICRO TURBINE POWER MEMS, > AND CARBON FLYWHEEL POWER > STORAGE BATTERIES ARE > OTHER INTERESTS. > > 1. REDUNDANT, GASOLINE POWERED > MEMS; (MICRO ELECTRO-MECHANICAL > SYSTEMS), TO OPERATE REDUNDANTLY, > AND 24/7, FOR A PERFECT MICRO > POWER PLANT FACILITY. > I WONDER IF THEY CAN BE > SUCCESSFULLY OPERATED ON > BIODIESEL??? > ANYONE KNOW??? > > BIODIESEL WOULD BE MUCH > PREFERRED, OVER GASOLINE. The question on biodiesel, is whether you can get enough oil from local restaraunts and fast food places. And if you have the space to do the reactions. As for batteries, this is a fair explanation of the difference in batteries and their use in power storage: http://www.WindSun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm I bought my solar panels and controllers from them. My batteries are local golf cart batteries. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From justinhart at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 19:15:15 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Sun Aug 14 19:15:22 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050815020225.64626.qmail@mall-net.com> References: <20050815005640.59311.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> <20050815020225.64626.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: A friend of mine built a kiln once that was fired with waste oil from McDonalds. Justin On 8/14/05, javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > > MICRO TURBINE POWER MEMS, > > AND CARBON FLYWHEEL POWER > > STORAGE BATTERIES ARE > > OTHER INTERESTS. > > > > 1. REDUNDANT, GASOLINE POWERED > > MEMS; (MICRO ELECTRO-MECHANICAL > > SYSTEMS), TO OPERATE REDUNDANTLY, > > AND 24/7, FOR A PERFECT MICRO > > POWER PLANT FACILITY. > > I WONDER IF THEY CAN BE > > SUCCESSFULLY OPERATED ON > > BIODIESEL??? > > ANYONE KNOW??? > > > > BIODIESEL WOULD BE MUCH > > PREFERRED, OVER GASOLINE. > > The question on biodiesel, is whether you can get enough oil from > local restaraunts and fast food places. And if you have the space to do > the reactions. > > As for batteries, this is a fair explanation of the difference in > batteries and their use in power storage: > > http://www.WindSun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm > > I bought my solar panels and controllers from them. My batteries > are local golf cart batteries. > > -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) > CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. > Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. > My opinions are subject to the availability of information. > I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. > > For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices > orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. > Today's Art Photo > Chem / Fungus allergies > Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. > Arthritis > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > -- Justin W. Hart From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 20:39:56 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 20:40:01 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050815020225.64626.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050815033956.90302.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > MICRO TURBINE POWER MEMS, > AND CARBON FLYWHEEL POWER > STORAGE BATTERIES ARE > OTHER INTERESTS. > > 1. REDUNDANT, GASOLINE POWERED > MEMS; (MICRO ELECTRO-MECHANICAL > SYSTEMS), TO OPERATE REDUNDANTLY, > AND 24/7, FOR A PERFECT MICRO > POWER PLANT FACILITY. > I WONDER IF THEY CAN BE > SUCCESSFULLY OPERATED ON > BIODIESEL??? > ANYONE KNOW??? > > BIODIESEL WOULD BE MUCH > PREFERRED, OVER GASOLINE. The question on biodiesel, is whether you can get enough oil from local restaraunts and fast food places. And if you have the space to do the reactions. BIODIESEL REFINERIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RELIED UPON, IN THE FUTURE. As for batteries, this is a fair explanation of the difference in batteries and their use in power storage: http://www.WindSun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm THIS IS AN EXCELLENT WEBSITE. THANKS FOR SHARING IT. IT APPEARS THAT THE THICK LEAD PLATE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES ARE THE VERY BEST TO USE, WITH ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SYSTEMS; SOLAR AND WIND, FOR STORAGE. FORK LIFT BATTERIES, AND GOLF CART BATTERIES. HOW LONG HAVE YOU OWNED THE GOLF CART BATTERIES THAT YOU CURRENTLY HAVE? I bought my solar panels and controllers from them. My batteries are local golf cart batteries. I WANT TO OWN REDUNDANT FLYWEEL BATTERIES, FOR A MICRO POWER PLANT, BUT THE ONE'S THAT I LOOKED INTO IN THE PAST, ARE DAMNED EXPENSIVE AS HELL. THEY ARE A FUCKIN' AWESOME TECHNOLOGY THOUGH. AND I WANT REDUNADANT GASOLINE OPERABLE MICRO POWER MEM TURBINES TOO, TO USE WITH MICRO GENERATORS AND THE FLYWHEEL BATTERIES. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/dae55bea/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 20:41:53 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 20:41:59 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050815034153.18743.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> Justin Hart wrote: A friend of mine built a kiln once, that was fired with waste oil from McDonalds. THAT SOUNDS COOL. WAS HIS OPERATION VERY ENERGY EFFICIENT? Justin CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/ccb249b5/attachment.html From justinhart at gmail.com Sun Aug 14 21:03:38 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:03:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050815034153.18743.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050815034153.18743.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, there were no real experimental results. She needed a kiln and there was a kit that was able to do this. I'm not sure of the details. Justin On 8/14/05, clyde lofton wrote: > > > Justin Hart wrote: > > > A friend of mine built a kiln once, that was fired with waste oil from > McDonalds. > > THAT SOUNDS COOL. > > WAS HIS OPERATION VERY ENERGY EFFICIENT? > > > Justin > > CLYDE > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > -- Justin W. Hart From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 21:07:39 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:07:45 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REVISED; AND I FORGOT TO ADD.... In-Reply-To: <20050815004911.10072.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815040739.54451.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Cholesterol cutting drugs, advocated in the article, have been shown to cause more harm than good. PROBABLY; AND I'VE LOST MOST ALL OF MY FAITH IN BOTH STREET DRUGS, AND IN PRESRIPTION DRUGS, AND IN THE MAINSTREAM DOCTORS, AND IN THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, AND IN THE PHARMACOLOGY DICTATORSHIP, AND THE IN THE FINANCIAL BANKING ESTABLISHMENT DICTATORSHIP, AND IN THE ENERGY POWER CONTROL DICTATORSHIP, AND IN THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX, AND IN GOD, AND IN GOVERNMENT TOO. *AND I FORGOT TO ADD THAT I'VE LOST ALL OF MY FAITH IN THE SOCIALIST (FASCIST-COMMUNIST) PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM TOO.* ALL OF THESE FUCKING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OF THE COMMERICIALISM OF PHARMACOLOGY, HAVE SO MANY DAMNED SIDE EFFECTS; SIDE EFFECTS MORE ACCURATELY PUT, = DIRECT EFFECTS. Lowering cholesterol is actually easy -- get enough vitamins and eat fresh or steamed veggies while avoiding meats. YEAH; I NEED TO OVERDOSE ON ALL OF THE RIGHT VITAMINS NOW; ESPECIALLY THE ONE'S THAT WILL NULLIFY CERTAIN AREAS OF MY SCREWED UP NEUROLOGY. I THINK I NEED ZINC, VITAMIN E, AND VITAMIN K TOO. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS REGARDING THIS, JOHN? > Study Says Echinacea Doesn't Help Colds. The study has been widely reported as junk! They used too low doses to mean anything and did not even use the correct species. I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING PERTANING TO ECHINACEA. Sounds like this newsmax media thing is just reprinting press releases favoring the pharm industry. YEAH; THE MEDICAL PHRAUD 'PHUNNY' PHARM INDUSTRY. FUCK EM' ALL, BECAUSE I'M SICK OF ALL OF THEIR CEASELESS GODDAMNED EMPIRICAL SHIT, AND SICK OF ALL OF THE CEASELESS GODDAMNED EMPIRICAL SHIT FROM ALL OF THE OTHERS THAT I'VE LISTED ABOVE, EVERY FUCKING ONE OF THEM, EQUALLY AS WELL. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/0b17ae99/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 21:14:59 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:15:04 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON THE CADUECEUS ART WEBLINKS, AND THE OTHER? Message-ID: <20050815041459.87419.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> HAVE I LOST MY MIND? ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS ON THE CADUCEUS ARTWORK, AND THE OTHER THAT I HAVE WRITTEN? CLYDE CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY: 1. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock048/s1458006-photo 2. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock040/s1405023-photo THE YAHOO SEARCH ENGINE KEY WORDS ARE: CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY. I AM SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT; AND THESE TWO ARTWORKS ARE A PERFECT DEPICTION AS TO WHY I AM SO SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT. CONVENTION SHIT DOCTORS ARE: 1. LIARS IN MANY CASES. 2. THEY ARE NOT ENTIRELY HONEST IN MANY CASES. AND: 3. THEY ARE HIGHLY NEGLECTFUL OF HEALTH NEEDS, FOR MANY, AND/OR MOST PEOPLE, IN MANY CASES. CLYDE LOFTON __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/e2e1e43c/attachment-0001.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 14 21:21:43 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:21:47 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 15, 2005 12:03:38 AM Message-ID: <20050815042144.51834.qmail@mall-net.com> > > A friend of mine built a kiln once, that was fired with waste oil from > > McDonalds. > Well, there were no real experimental results. She needed a kiln and > there was a kit that was able to do this. I'm not sure of the > details. Efficiency in this case can be measured in dollars per BTU, which is usualy a very low price with waste oils, as places like McDonalds often has to pay to dispose of this oil. And since the oil is used instead of wasted, it is efficient. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 21:23:21 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:23:28 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] MAXIMUM DOSES OF THE RIGHT VITAMINS. In-Reply-To: <20050815040739.54451.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815042321.98379.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> I NEED MAXIMUM DOSES OF ALL OF THE RIGHT VITAMINS NOW; THE ONE'S THAT WILL NULLIFY THE SPECIFIC AND EXACT AREAS OF MY SCREWED UP NEUROLOGY, BECAUSE I AM SICK OF MY UNCONTROLLED HYPERTENSION. I THINK I NEED ZINC, VITAMIN E, AND VITAMIN K TOO. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS REGARDING THIS, JOHN? SINCERELY, CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/b68b9ff6/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 21:32:29 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:32:32 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050815042144.51834.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050815043229.58304.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > Well, there were no real experimental results. She needed a kiln and > there was a kit that was able to do this. I'm not sure of the > details. Efficiency in this case can be measured in dollars per BTU, which is usually a very low price with waste oils, as places like McDonalds often have to pay to dispose of this oil. And since the oil is used instead of wasted, it is efficient. COOL MAN! CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/b1a60400/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 14 21:50:08 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:50:15 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] BIODIESEL, BATTERIES, AND MICRO POWER PLNTS. In-Reply-To: <20050815033956.90302.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050815045008.93385.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> REVISED FROM PREVIOUS E-MAIL: The question on biodiesel, is whether you can get enough oil from local restaraunts and fast food places. And if you have the space to do the reactions. BIODIESEL REFINERIES WILL PROBABLY HAVE TO BE RELIED UPON, IN THE FUTURE, BY ALL OF US, OR AT LEAST; MOST OF US. THE NEWS REPORT THE OTHER NIGHT, TALKED ABOUT A FAIRLY LOCAL BIODIESEL REFINERY FACILITY, AT THE PORT OF CATOOSA, IN CATOOSA OKLAHOMA. IT DIDN'T OCCUR TO ME AT THAT TIME, AS I WAS WATCHING THE REPORT, THAT WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, WAS INDEED BIODIESEL, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T MENTION THE WORD: BIODIESEL, IN THEIR TALK. I HAD ALREADY HEARD OF BIODIESEL, QUITE A LONG TIME AGO. As for batteries, this is a fair explanation of the difference in batteries and their use in power storage: http://www.WindSun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm THIS IS AN EXCELLENT WEBSITE! THANKS FOR SHARING IT. IT APPEARS THAT THE THICK LEAD PLATE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES ARE THE VERY BEST TO USE, FOR ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SYSTEMS. FORK LIFT BATTERIES, AND GOLF CART BATTERIES. HOW LONG HAVE YOU OWNED THE GOLF CART BATTERIES THAT YOU CURRENTLY HAVE? HAVE YOU GONE THROUGH VERY MANY GOLF CART BATTERIES, IN THE YEARS OF YOUR USAGE OF SOLAR POWER? I bought my solar panels and controllers from them. My batteries are local golf cart batteries. I WANT TO OWN REDUNDANT FLYWEEL BATTERIES, FOR A MICRO POWER PLANT, BUT THE ONE'S THAT I LOOKED INTO IN THE PAST, ARE DAMNED EXPENSIVE AS ALL HELL. THEY ARE A FUCKIN' AWESOME TECHNOLOGY THOUGH. AND I ALSO WANT REDUNDANT GASOLINE, AND OR BIODIESEL OPERABLE MICRO POWER MEM TURBINES TOO, TO USE WITH MICRO GENERATORS AND COMBINATIONS OF FLYWHEEL BATTERIES. GIVE ME ENERGY INDEPENDENCE, OR GIVE ME PEACEFUL DEATH! BECAUSE I AM SICK OF ENERGY SLAVERY. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050814/60d41928/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 14 21:52:18 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 14 21:52:21 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REVISED; AND I FORGOT TO ADD.... In-Reply-To: <20050815040739.54451.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 14, 2005 09:07:39 PM Message-ID: <20050815045218.70513.qmail@mall-net.com> > Lowering cholesterol is actually easy -- get enough vitamins and eat fresh or steamed veggies while avoiding meats. > YEAH; I NEED TO OVERDOSE ON ALL OF THE RIGHT VITAMINS NOW; ESPECIALLY THE ONE'S THAT WILL NULLIFY CERTAIN AREAS OF MY SCREWED UP NEUROLOGY. When I was eating almost nothing but fresh and steamed veggies on a rotating diet, the typical grocery store cholesterol screening would go something like this: Pinprick. Technician puts sample in machine. Technician bangs on machine. Technician takes sample to second machine. If two technicians, they both puzzle over it. Technician looks at me sideways and asks if I have a cholesterol problem. "No, why?" Technician says "Ah... we couldn't find any." Subsequent conversation reveals the detection limit is about 100. Questions as to diet, etc. to get this remarkably low reading. Sometimes they say they only got one other reading like that, and I describe my accountant, whom they say matches the description. I tell them he's eating close to the same diet. Or when the technician really looks at me, it's "Oh, you again!" Nothing but fresh and steamed veggies. Not frozen and steamed, but fresh from the fresh produce isle in the supermarket or the farmer's market with minimal (1-3 day) layover in the produce tray of the refrigerator. Maybe a little steamed fish now and then too. > I THINK I NEED ZINC, VITAMIN E, AND VITAMIN K TOO. > > WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS REGARDING THIS, JOHN? I don't know about your case. I write in general. But Zinc brings something interesting up, mentioned at the end, which just might be quite relevant to you. Zinc certainly helps things heal, along with vitamin C. Before Dr. Cathcart started using C, he was advocating Zinc. Some people do not retain zinc very well. E is useful as an antioxidant; though some have trouble with that and do better with the tocapherols. Some doctors have prescribed extreme amounts of E; but that is an individual thing. One needs caution; as some people have broken biochemical pathways which result in problems handling various things. (Mine are clearly broken in the Cytochrome / heme pathway, resulting in poor detoxification.) Vitamin K increases clotting, so needs to be taken with care; especially when there are other problems. As with all vitamins, actual needs depend upon your body, activities, injuries, etc. In general C is one of the safest vitamins to overdose on -- you get diarrhea. http://www.mall-net.com/cathcart/titrate.html and other articles there. There's another thing I just remembered which can produce really odd mentation problems -- pyroluria. Can cause intermittent schizoidal episodes, etc. Similar to schizophrenic (intermittent) porphyria. Caused by excessive excretion of B6 and zinc, and maybe manganese, which are often borderline or low in those who have it. Google it. http;//www.google.com/search&q=pyroluria -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 14 23:21:08 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 14 23:21:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <20050815033956.90302.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 14, 2005 08:39:56 PM Message-ID: <20050815062108.31016.qmail@mall-net.com> What is efficient? How does one generate power in a PRACTICAL manner? > The question on biodiesel, is whether you can get enough oil from > local restaraunts and fast food places. And if you have the space to do > the reactions. > > > BIODIESEL REFINERIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO BE RELIED UPON, IN > THE FUTURE. Anytime you let someone else get their hands on your fuel, it gets expensive. Better to collect it yourself and mix the chemicals up as needed. It's just that diesel engines tend to run really noisy and not very clean, which can be a problem in a residential area. > http://www.WindSun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm > IT APPEARS THAT THE THICK LEAD PLATE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES ARE THE VERY BEST TO USE, WITH ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SYSTEMS; SOLAR AND WIND, FOR STORAGE. > FORK LIFT BATTERIES, AND GOLF CART BATTERIES. > > HOW LONG HAVE YOU OWNED THE GOLF CART BATTERIES THAT YOU CURRENTLY HAVE? About a year. They appear quite good at present. I have maybe 660 amp-hours at 12 volts. I avoid going below 25% utilization, which is roughly 12.32 volts. One guy told me not to worry about my first set of batteries, buy cheap because you'll destroy them in less than a year. My first set of lead acid batteries were a few old deep cycle units, not matched, charged with solar and idling car engine till I got the RV with the 6500 watt generator up here. Not very efficient! The batteries worked ok, till my charger failed. The next car type charger turned out to be junk, but I didn't know it. Plus, The batteries were not matched, just some crap and some good units. I ending up replacing the batteries as the bad ones worked the good ones down. I set up a six foot 12 gage wire from each battery to a common ground, and started monitoring where the current was going. Oops! Two really bad batteries, and one that was fair, and one utter crap. I replaced the worst of them, not all of them. It seemed ok. Then my solar charge controller failed. It was winter, so I figured it didn't matter much as the batteries probably would not charge fully. But what else happened, was that my trusty old Fluke voltmeter failed, and the cheap Chinese crap I bought quickly went out of calibration by over half a volt! And kept getting worse! Between the bad charger and a bad voltmeter, I was beating the heck out of those batteries! And within three or four months, they were not holding charge very well at all, requiring a lot of generator time. I got a smaller used generator to reduce operating costs. Financials showed I'd pay for the smaller generator in four months. In reality, it was probably more like two; but it was a pull-start, not a remote start like the RV generator. I did rig a remote stop, so I could kill it when the batteries were charged or I was done with the higher current computers and CRTs. (I wasn't just using a laptop; I had two other computers there.) Checking the current in and out of the second set of batteries, I saw they no longer very well matched, with one battery doing most of the work. So I was using the generator too often, raising my cost of operation. So I finally got the golf cart batteries. Again, things were not running right till I got the right charger. The car battery chargers don't do a good job; you need something designed for power service, not just getting your battery up to where you can start the car and use the car to charge it. > I bought my solar panels and controllers from them. My batteries > are local golf cart batteries. > > I WANT TO OWN REDUNDANT FLYWEEL BATTERIES, FOR A MICRO > POWER PLANT, BUT THE ONE'S THAT I LOOKED INTO IN THE PAST, > ARE DAMNED EXPENSIVE AS HELL. Flywheels as batteries? Maybe. You are looking at $ per amp-hour, and reliability issues related to how long and how often you will end up without power. Flywheel storage is tough to use, with the need to maintain vacuum inside the spin chamber... Only good for short term storage of energy. Spring a gas leak in your flywheel, and you're up the crick if you can't fix it yourself. Soon, the bearings wear, and you are talking to a lot of places trying to find exotic bearings and someone to change them out. Chemical batteries let you store the energy longer. And cheaper. Easier to maintain and replace, and a more gradual failure curve, so you have plenty of warning. Then it's Hellooo Craigins/Pep Boys/whomever. I need some golf cart batteries, how many do you have? And in a few hours, you have the replacements on line. Can't do that with a flywheel! > AND I WANT REDUNADANT GASOLINE OPERABLE MICRO POWER MEM TURBINES TOO, TO USE WITH MICRO GENERATORS AND THE FLYWHEEL BATTERIES. Micro generators? Turbines? When your micro turbine fails... who knows how to repair it??? And so you are down for weeks as it is shipped off somewhere, and they wait for parts from the manufacturer, or say sorry, the manufacturer went out of business, so you are stuck without electricity. How often will the generator fail, and how long will it be down? Generators are gross mechanical kludges filled with bearings, sliding parts, etc. They break down a lot! What I do here, I have a 2500 watt propane generator, a 4000 watt propane generator, and a 6500 watt backup gasoline generator in the RV. I should have gotten a 500 watt unit instead of the 2500 watt unit. Remember, idle fuel consumption is near half that of full load. And most of the time, you will not run your big generator anywhere near full load; you will just be charging solar batteries with your generator running at that least efficient near idle power level. I use the 2500 watt unit for battery charging, running larger computers, etc. I bought it used at less than half the price; but I should have invested in solar panels and a good charger for the 4000 watt unit instead. Or a small 500 watt generator to match the battery charger, and nothing else. That way, it would be running at the more efficient full load. For washing machine use, the 4000 watt unit has enough kick to make the washing machine work. I bought it as an old junker, had to rewire it to get it to work, then let a pro tune it up. Runs like a champ, just needs a better muffler. The 6500 is the most expensive to run at present. The 2500 has been in the shop twice already. The control systems of the 2500 failed a few months ago; but since there is plenty of sunlight at the moment, I've deferred repairs till I get some help. Just need to check some more relays, etc. (Which, all of these being Onans, are expensive.) But basically, if you have cash, you can haul a common generator to an RV dealer or small engine repair place and have it repaired in a day or three, depending upon how long it takes to get parts. Then there are the inverters. The most important thing is idle current. Run the lowest idle current, which is probably the smallest generator, for the lights. get a larger one you can switch to when you need middle levels of power, such as running window sized cooling fans. And either get a really big one for higher loads, or start the generator. I start the generator to use the microwave oven; why beat the batteries to death? What I'd really like to do, is use the heat from these for hot water heating; but I'm mechanically inept. Here's a pyroluria page http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/content/articles-content.php?heading=Pyroluria From justinhart at gmail.com Mon Aug 15 06:18:02 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Mon Aug 15 06:18:09 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON THE CADUECEUS ART WEBLINKS, AND THE OTHER? In-Reply-To: <20050815041459.87419.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20050815041459.87419.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have no strong feelings regarding the artwork, nor the state of modern medicine. I'm also not qualified to judge your sanity. Justin On 8/15/05, clyde lofton wrote: > > > > > > HAVE I LOST MY MIND? > ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS > AND COMMENTS ON THE CADUCEUS ARTWORK, > AND THE OTHER THAT I HAVE WRITTEN? > > CLYDE > > CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY: > > 1. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock048/s1458006-photo > > 2. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock040/s1405023-photo > > THE YAHOO SEARCH ENGINE KEY WORDS ARE: > > CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY. > > I AM SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT; > AND THESE TWO ARTWORKS ARE A PERFECT > DEPICTION AS TO WHY I AM SO SICK OF > CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT. > CONVENTION SHIT DOCTORS ARE: > > 1. LIARS IN MANY CASES. > > 2. THEY ARE NOT ENTIRELY HONEST IN > MANY CASES. > > AND: > > 3. THEY ARE HIGHLY NEGLECTFUL OF > HEALTH NEEDS, FOR MANY, AND/OR > MOST PEOPLE, IN MANY CASES. > > CLYDE LOFTON > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > -- Justin W. Hart From Vesta111 at aol.com Mon Aug 15 07:04:57 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 15 07:05:13 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion Message-ID: <208.70e5fe8.3031fb09@aol.com> In a message dated 8/11/2005 3:42:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mbest@triad.rr.com writes: I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False prophets are rampant today, and they are the minions of Lucifer. IMHO, all those "True Believers" who advocate the dilution of science with specious religious beliefs are but false prophets, serving the Great Deceiver. My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. -MB I am a Baha'i, I follow the teachings of the prophet Baha'u'llah. We are taught that God has sent many prophets through the evolution of man kind. As our lives have gone from the caves to landing on the moon, each stage called for prophets to explain Gods plan in the evolving life styles of human beings. We believe in the teachings of all the great prophets from Abraham to Budda, from Jesus to Mohamed. We give full regard to the Latter Day Saints, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventists, The Pope and the beliefs of the Wiccan, American Indian, and Hindi. How can anyone do this ? Simple, we believe all faith in God is valid, only the RITES of each faith differ, when you look into all faiths you will find that all faiths stress the same major points, there is a 10 commandment rule built into all faiths, same with the Golden Rule. As for science and education, we believe that if a family cannot afford to educate all their children, the girls must be educated before the boys Religion can not exist without Science and visa-versa. Most important of all is the teaching that if a Religious belief causes harm to any people or citizens of Earth, mankind would be better off without Religion. Not only do we demand education for all, but encourage curiosity about all forms of religion as relating to the similar beliefs. There is no such thing as anyone of us believing that one faith is TRUER then any other. We believe that the better educated humans become ,the chances of war and distrust of each other will end. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/518de0cd/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Mon Aug 15 12:50:15 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Mon Aug 15 12:50:31 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] IMPEACHMENT! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/12/2005 7:58:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: IMPEACH THE CLINTONS AND THE BUSHES ALIKE; LET'S START THIS COUNTRY ALL OVER AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. CLYDE LOFTON Gee Clyde, I don't like that idea. How to begin ? There are how many of us mongrels with nowhere to go. I have DNA that is Canadian French as well as France French, English and perhaps Irish. So while America is being emptied of all but full blooded American Indians, where do us Mongrels go ? My family came to America as full blooded English people. We brought in other blood as generations came and went. I think most people have heard of the "Wood Pile " Same as being born on the other side of the bed. Tell you the truth Clyde, woman being woman, men being men, wouldn't surprise me to find some Chinese or East Papa Mow Mow blood in me. Dear Clyde------ You can't UNRING THE BELL !!! Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/c2334aa4/attachment.html From texastjs at swbell.net Mon Aug 15 13:11:06 2005 From: texastjs at swbell.net (Tim) Date: Mon Aug 15 13:11:15 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Doctor Biz In-Reply-To: <20050815190002.6AD313982A@kang.vjc.com> References: <20050815190002.6AD313982A@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <4300F6DA.2060105@swbell.net> mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG wrote: >Send Mad-Scientists mailing list submissions to > mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >You can reach the person managing the list at > mad-scientists-owner@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Mad-Scientists digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON THE CADUECEUS ART WEBLINKS, > AND THE OTHER? (Justin Hart) > 2. Re: Science and religion (Vesta111@aol.com) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 09:18:02 -0400 >From: Justin Hart >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON THE > CADUECEUS ART WEBLINKS, AND THE OTHER? >To: Mad-Scientists Discussion List >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I have no strong feelings regarding the artwork, nor the state of >modern medicine. > >I'm also not qualified to judge your sanity. > >Justin > >On 8/15/05, clyde lofton wrote: > > >> >> >> >> >> >>HAVE I LOST MY MIND? >>ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS >>AND COMMENTS ON THE CADUCEUS ARTWORK, >>AND THE OTHER THAT I HAVE WRITTEN? >> >>CLYDE >> >>CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY: >> >>1. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock048/s1458006-photo >> >>2. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock040/s1405023-photo >> >>THE YAHOO SEARCH ENGINE KEY WORDS ARE: >> >>CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY. >> >>I AM SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT; >>AND THESE TWO ARTWORKS ARE A PERFECT >>DEPICTION AS TO WHY I AM SO SICK OF >>CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT. >>CONVENTION SHIT DOCTORS ARE: >> >>1. LIARS IN MANY CASES. >> >>2. THEY ARE NOT ENTIRELY HONEST IN >> MANY CASES. >> >>AND: >> >>3. THEY ARE HIGHLY NEGLECTFUL OF >> HEALTH NEEDS, FOR MANY, AND/OR >> MOST PEOPLE, IN MANY CASES. >> >>CLYDE LOFTON >> >> >> >> >> >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >>http://mail.yahoo.com >>_______________________________________________ >>Mad-Scientists mailing list >>Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >>http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists >> >> >>Hello Clyde-You sound angry-that's not crazy if you've been screwed over. I feel like what you say is true-harsh, and true. To wit, I am composing a list of what I went through when my health failed me, and how wrong they were and how many times. I have proof of their neglect, their repeated medical errors, incompetence, arrogance, insensitivity, judgmentalism and highly pharmaceutically-oriented group-think "Apparatchik" functional hypocrisy. It's taking me some time, as I want to be accurate and not risk missing something by reciting their complete medical buffoonery from memory. I have copies of the records that are available to me, however from what I understand there may be a "secret" set of records that doctors keep as well. Sounds conspiratorial doesn't it? I just heard that lately, I haven't checked it out, maybe on Snopes.com? At any rate-their stunning stupidity and CUPIDITY has me amazed. They seem to crave the worship that only ALMIGHTY GOD deserves, as well as loads of money, you know for the really important things in life...Yachts, Lexus/Mercedes, mansions, private schools, investments, etc. Not to mention all the freebies the Kings of Pharma dole out on their special Continuing Medical Education Credit Seminars-free trips, luncheons at the Medical Offices, luggage, airline credits, lots and lots of exotic locale seminars, free drug samples to PUSH to Patients, on and on, ad nauseum. How must they stink in God's nostrils, as much as child molesters and pornographers and murderers! I have encountered all of the types you list-I became the target when I rejected their ministrations of drugs, drugs, drugs and unnecessary surgery. I handled my health problems with research, appropriate requests for novel, although scientifically supported treatment paradigms and supplements, rather than just drugs and surgeries, I got labeled for trying to save my own life. I despise most of them now-I'll post a list soon of all their screw-ups relevant to my health situation-NO personal names will be used. The sad thing about saying there are still a few "GOOD" ones is that almost all of them have so rationalized their greed and indifference to being true practitioners of the art of healing, that they think if they throw a patient a few pharmaceutical samples that they deserve to be lauded as good. NOT. Lisa R. Smith >> >> >> >> > > > > From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 15:50:20 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 15 15:50:26 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Doctor Biz In-Reply-To: <4300F6DA.2060105@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20050815225020.94785.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> DR. COLE, AND DR. MILLER, AND TO ALL MAD SCIENTISTS CONCERNED; THIS IS ONE OF THE MANY POSTINGS THAT I HAVE MADE AND RECIEVED, AT THE MAD SCIENTISTS WEBLIST, WITH A RESPONSE FROM A FELLOW MAD SCIENTIST AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE. I'D LIKE TO GET YOUR FEEDBACK REGARDING EVERYTHING ON THIS TOPIC. I AM BOTH PISSED, AND AM IN PAIN, OVER ALL OF THE CEASELESS DAMNED PHARMA-PSEUDOCAL DRUG SHIT, OF MAINSTREAM DOCTORS. I AM ALSO PISSED AT THE FINANCIAL AND BANKING INFRASTRUCTURES, AND THE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURES, FOR SCREWING US ALL: EQUALLY. I NEED AN OVERDOSE OF ALL OF THE RIGHT VITAMINS, PLUS AN OVERDOSE OF MORPHINE, TO SOOTH THE CURSED WAY THAT I FEEL, PLUS A LIFETIME USAGE OF INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY. TALK TO YOU TOMORROW AFTERNOON (DR. COLE), IF YOU RECIEVE THIS E-MAIL BY THIS EVENING, AND I HOPE YOU HAVE THE TIME TO REPLY BACK, VIA E-MAIL, TONIGHT. SINCERELY, CLYDE On 8/15/05, clyde lofton wrote: HAVE I LOST MY MIND? ANYONE OUT THERE HAVE ANY THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS ON THE CADUCEUS ARTWORKS, AND THE OTHER THAT I HAVE WRITTEN BELOW? CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY: 1. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock048/s1458006-photo 2. http://www.inmagine.com/bstock040/s1405023-photo THE YAHOO SEARCH ENGINE KEY WORDS ARE: CADUCEUS PHOTOGRAPHY. I AM SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT; AND THESE TWO ARTWORKS ARE A PERFECT DEPICTION AS TO WHY I AM SO SICK OF CONVENTION DOCTORAL SHIT. CONVENTION SHIT DOCTORS ARE: 1. LIARS IN MANY CASES. 2. THEY ARE NOT ENTIRELY HONEST IN MANY CASES. AND: 3. THEY ARE HIGHLY NEGLECTFUL OF HEALTH NEEDS, FOR MANY, AND/OR MOST PEOPLE, IN MANY CASES. CLYDE LOFTON Hello Clyde-You sound angry-that's not crazy if you've been screwed over. I feel like what you say is true-harsh, and true. To wit, I am composing a list of what I went through when my health failed me, and how wrong they were and how many times. I have proof of their neglect, their repeated medical errors, incompetence, arrogance, insensitivity, judgmentalism and highly pharmaceutically-oriented group-think "Apparatchik" functional hypocrisy. It's taking me some time, as I want to be accurate and not risk missing something by reciting their complete medical buffoonery from memory. I have copies of the records that are available to me, however from what I understand there may be a "secret" set of records that doctors keep as well. Sounds conspiratorial doesn't it? I just heard that lately, I haven't checked it out, maybe on Snopes.com? At any rate-their stunning stupidity and CUPIDITY has me amazed. They seem to crave the worship that only ALMIGHTY GOD deserves, as well as lo ads of money, you know for the really important things in life...Yachts, Lexus/Mercedes, mansions, private schools, investments, etc. Not to mention all the freebies the Kings of Pharma dole out on their special Continuing Medical Education Credit Seminars-free trips, luncheons at the Medical Offices, luggage, airline credits, lots and lots of exotic locale seminars, free drug samples to PUSH to Patients, on and on, ad nauseum. How must they stink in God's nostrils, as much as child molesters and pornographers and murderers! I have encountered all of the types you list-I became the target when I rejected their ministrations of drugs, drugs, drugs and unnecessary surgery. I handled my health problems with research, appropriate requests for novel, although scientifically supported treatment paradigms and supplements, rather than just drugs and surgeries, I got labeled for trying to save my own life. I despise most of them now-I'll post a list soon of all their screw-ups relevant to m y health situation-NO personal names will be used. The sad thing about saying there are still a few "GOOD" ones is that almost all of them have so rationalized their greed and indifference to being true practitioners of the art of healing, that they think if they throw a patient a few pharmaceutical samples that they deserve to be lauded as good. NOT. Lisa R. Smith Mad-Scientists mailing list: Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/eb0ee9f0/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 16:45:12 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 15 16:45:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] IMPEACHMENT! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050815234513.48413.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> Gee Clyde, I don't like that idea. How to begin ? There are how many of us mongrels with nowhere to go. I have DNA that is Canadian French as well as France French, English and perhaps Irish. I WANT TO BOTH CHANGE AND UPGRADE MY D.N.A. So while America is being emptied of all but full blooded American Indians, where do us Mongrels go ? My family came to America as full blooded English people. We brought in other blood as generations came and went. I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO GO, EXCEPT INTO SPACE. ALTHOUGH THAT WOULD REQUIRE A DAMN GOOD SPACESHIP. AND NEXT TO WORTHLESS NASA ISN'T GOING TO FOOT THE BILL FOR MY OWN CUSTOM ENGINEERED SPACESHIP. I think most people have heard of the "Wood Pile " Same as being born on the other side of the bed. Tell you the truth Clyde, woman being woman, men being men, wouldn't surprise me to find some Chinese or East Papa Mow Mow blood in me. Dear Clyde------ You can't UNRING THE BELL !!! UNRINGING THE BELL ISN'T ANYTHING THAT I HAVE, OR HAVE HAD IN MIND. RINGING THE LIBERTY BELL, IS! IF THERE IS NO STARTING OVER, THEN WHAT OPTIONS DO WE ALL HAVE? OUR GOVERNMENT IS CORRUPT AS ALL HELL; DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE. AND I'M TIRED AND WORN OUT. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/4ef8a7c3/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 17:06:50 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 15 17:06:55 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Science and religion In-Reply-To: <208.70e5fe8.3031fb09@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050816000650.34247.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> I am a Christian, and believe that we live in the end times. False prophets are rampant today, and they are the minions of Lucifer. LUCIFER, AND THE FUCKING LUCIS (LUCIFER'S) TRUST, AT THE U.D.N. (UNITED DIVIDED NATIONS), IN N.Y.C. IMHO, all those "True Believers" who advocate the dilution of science with specious religious beliefs are but false prophets, serving the Great Deceiver. DAMN STRAIGHT! My science is not lame; I pray your religion is not blind. SCIENCE WITHOUT RELIGION IS DANGEROUS. RELIGION WITHOUT SCIENCE IS ALSO DANGEROUS. THE SAME IS FUCKING APPLICABLE TO GODDAMNED POLITICS TOO. -MB CLYDE I am a Baha'i, I follow the teachings of the prophet Baha'u'llah. We are taught that God has sent many prophets through the evolution of mankind. As our lives have gone from the caves to landing on the moon TO THE MOON, YES; BUT I WANT TO GO INFINITELY AND ABSOLUTELY FAR BEYOND THE FUCKING BORING AS GODDAMNED HELL MOON, AND I WANT TO DO IT IN PERFECT PEACE AT THE SAME TIME. , each stage called for prophets to explain God's plan in the evolving life styles of human beings. We believe in the teachings of all the great prophets from Abraham to Budda, from Jesus to Mohamed. We give full regard to the Latter Day Saints, Christian Science, Seventh Day Adventists, The Pope and the beliefs of the Wiccan, American Indian, and Hindi. ARE HINDI AND HINDU, THE EXACT SAME, OR ARE THEY DIFFERENT??? How can anyone do this ? Simple, we believe all faith in God is valid, only the RITES of each faith differ, when you look into all faiths you will find that all faiths stress the same major points, there is a 10 commandment rule built into all faiths, same with the Golden Rule. HOW ABOUT ALL OF THE FUCKING SECRET OCCULT SOCIETIES??? As for science and education, we believe that if a family cannot afford to educate all their children, the girls must be educated before the boys. Religion can not exist without Science and visa-versa. Most important of all is the teaching that if a Religious belief causes harm to any people or citizens of Earth, mankind would be better off without Religion. YES; THAT IS CORRECT. I'VE BEEN HURT BY HYPOCRISY OF PEOPLE IN THE RELIGION THAT I WAS RAISED IN. Not only do we demand education for all, I DESPERATELY NEED TO FURTHER MY EDUCATION NOW. EDUCATION THOUGH, IN THIS INDUSTRIAL WASTELAND OF TULSA OKLAHOMA, IS BOTH SHIT, AND HAS BECOME VERY EXPENSIVE TOO. but encourage curiosity about all forms of religion as relating to the similar beliefs. I HAVE CURIOSITY ABOUT OTHER RELIGIONS, BUT MY MADNESS CANNOT ALLOW ME TO COMMUNICATE AT THIS TIME IN MY LIFE, WITH OTHER RELIGIOUS BELIEF SYSTEMS. SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2001, AND GEORGE BUSH, HAVE AMPLIFIED MY ANGER, AND I FEEL LIKE LASHING OUT AT OTHERS. There is no such thing as anyone of us believing that one faith is TRUER then any other. I AGREE. We believe that the better educated humans become the chances of war, and distrust of each other will end. OK. BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT SENTENCE ABOVE. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." DOES THIS SAYING IMPLY SUICIDE BY ARSENIC OR CYANIDE, OR BY ANY OTHER PEACEFUL AND PERFECT OVERDOSE, TO BE THE BEST WAY TO CHECK OUT? CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/a3cf56ab/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 17:18:33 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 15 17:18:48 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: NTB Motion Control Newsletter for 08/15/05 In-Reply-To: <20050815043433.GA21522@listserv.abpi.net> Message-ID: <20050816001833.35695.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> NASA Tech Briefs wrote:In this edition, sponsored by NB Corp., NSK, & Autodesk: * Students Advance Motor-Control Studies * New Consortium for Flexible Manufacturing * Applications: Advances in Unmanned Ground Vehicles * Free Literature & Downloads * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sponsor Message NB Actuator NB's BG type Integrated Slide Guide and Ball Screw Single Axis Actuator outperforms conventional positioning tables. The integration of the slide guide and precision ball screw eliminates complex adjustments and reduces installation time. Its compact design also results in dramatic space savings. A unique "u" shaped guide rail and slide block with 4 ball circuits provides extremely high rigidity, heavy load capacity, and highly accurate positioning. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * MOTOR CONTROL WEMPEC, the Wisconsin Electric Machines and Power Electronics Consortium, is incorporating the newest industrial drives -- ACS800 units donated by ABB Inc. -- into five test benches that support the electrical engineering curriculum and studies of undergraduate and graduate students attending the University of Wisconsin - Madison. Adjustable Speed Drives (ASDs) are used in any application in which there is mechanical equipment powered by motors. The drives provide extremely precise electrical motor control so that motor speeds can be ramped up and down and maintained at speeds required. Doing so utilizes only the energy required, rather than having a motor run at constant (fixed) speed and utilizing an excess of energy. These benefits help motor users realize 25-70% energy savings. The proprietary technology, called Direct Torque Control (DTC), built into the industrial drives ABB donated, is an example of what WEMPC wants to introduce to students. "DTC delivers full torque to a motor at zero speed, and that is a remarkable capability when you need to control applications such as rubber mixers or centrifuges," said Kalyan Gokhale, head of R&D at ABB Inc. For more information, visit: http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A2 MANUFACTURING CONSORTIUM Six automation companies have teamed to create a consortium to develop new flexible manufacturing processes for the aerospace industry. The consortium was formed to address the industry's need to reduce time-to-production cycles and capital expenditures by developing a new production model that will include new generations of flexible robots, sensors, and intelligent fixturing. The companies currently are working with aerospace manufacturers to identify key programs that would benefit from their new data-driven approach to robotic manufacturing in aerospace. Early emphasis is being given to drilling and riveting operations, as these have historically been both labor- and tooling- intensive operations. Visit http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A3 for more information. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sponsor Message NSK Ball Screws, Designed to Outperform Quietly and Quickly. NSK is the world's largest manufacturer of precision ground ball screws. The new BSS ball screw is designed to outperform like no other today. With its compact nut design it provides higher speeds, lower noise, and lower vibration than standard ball screws. The optional K1 TM lubrication unit provides long-term maintenance-free operation. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A4 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CURRENT ATTRACTIONS Each issue of Motion Control Technology(TM), a bi-monthly supplement to NASA Tech Briefs, contains a special section called Applications. Here's an Insider look at technologies covered in the August issue: * Fiber-Optic Gyros Help Robotic Vehicles Race Across Desert The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) Grand Challenge is a field test proposed to expedite research and development of autonomous ground vehicles to assist on the battlefield. The objective is to successfully race two driverless Hummers against other teams across 175 miles of Mojave Desert terrain in 10 hours or less. One of the vehicles, a radically modified 1986 Humvee called Sandstorm, features upgrades for the 2005 season including a new engine and drive-by-wire, fast computing, and a million lines of solid software. (Page 3a) * Computing Platform Enhances Mobility of Micro-Robot Draper Laboratory has designed and fabricated a micro-unmanned ground vehicle (UGV) -- the High-Mobility Tactical Micro-robot (HMTM) -- funded by DARPA's Microsystems Technology Office. The UGV leverages recent advances in consumer electronics along with an innovative vehicle platform design to achieve a system that provides exceptional mobility, ruggedness, communications, and user interface in an easily man-portable form factor. (Page 5a) View previously published Applications online at: http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A5 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sponsor Message Accelerate design creation by 60% with Autodesk Inventor(R): the #1 best-selling 3D design software. Learn to do your job better and faster with Lynn Allen's free Webcast. Get tips on saving steps and eliminating mundane tasks. Have more time to create and design! Register now and get a free trial. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * FREE LITERATURE Animatics has released a catalog featuring both integrated servos built on traditional high-speed brushless SmartMotor(TM) servo motor platforms as well as the fully commutated "servoed" ServoStep(TM) step motor platforms. Additional new products include the RTC-4000, standalone servo controller, special cables, interface devices, and the JenCNC. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A7 The 2005 full-line sensor catalog from Balluff contains complete information about the company's entire line of sensor products and accessories. The catalog is organized by product category, and includes specifications and diagrams for sensors for cylinders and valves; remote systems and accessories; and connectors, cables, and MIB blocks. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A8 The 24-page, full-color WORLD-BEAM Series Sensors brochure from Banner Engineering delivers an overview of Banner's broad offering of sensing solutions that feature the standardized WORLD-BEAM platform. Request a print version of the brochure by clicking the "Request Print Version" icon on the first page of the PDF. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A9 Henkel Corporation's Equipment Sourcebook, Volume 4, is an updated catalog presenting the complete line of Loctite(R) brand dispensing and curing equipment, from hand-held devices to fully automated systems. New products include the full line of Loctite meter-mix dispensing systems, pail-pump systems, high-powered wand systems, and the Zeta(R) 7700 LED light source. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A10 - Cathleen Lambertson, Associate Editor Send your comments to me at cathleen@abpi.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * THE NTB STORE http://www.techbriefs.com/store MOTORS & DRIVES: A PRACTICAL TECHNOLOGY GUIDE This practical reference introduces engineering concepts of motors and drives in a way that can be easily understood. Features include simple explanations, summaries, review questions, glossaries, and reference tables for formulas and conversions. $87.00 http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A11 STARRY NIGHT SOFTWARE Explore the universe from your desktop with Starry Night Enthusiast. Travel 20,000 light years away and view 2,500,000 stars and deep space objects. Check out the view from the International Space Station. Stunning OpenGL graphics. Includes over 2-1/2 hours of video multimedia on CD-ROM, a bonus DVD featuring dramatic visualizations of astronomical phenomena, handy star charts for exploring outside, and weekly sky-gazing suggestions. $69.95 http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050815A12 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please let your colleagues know they too can receive the INSIDER free of charge simply by sending an e-mail message to the address Listserv@listserv.abpi.net with the text SUBSCRIBE Insider Firstname Lastname as the only text on the first line of the message body. For information on how your company can sponsor future editions of the INSIDER, e-mail joe@abpi.net. Copyright (c) 2005 Associated Business Publications Intl. This e-mail has been sent to NTB INSIDER subscribers. If you do not wish to receive these messages in the future, please send an e-mail message to the address Listserv@listserv.abpi.net with the text SIGNOFF Insider as the only text on the first line of the message body. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/e24970d9/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 17:30:23 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 15 17:30:28 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Motors And Drives. Message-ID: <20050816003023.58411.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> Motors And Drives book weblink: http://www.e2e-store.com/nasatechbriefs/nasatechbriefs-product.cgi?category_id=7&product_id=13 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/ebf5456f/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 15 17:55:58 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 15 17:56:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] IMPEACHMENT! In-Reply-To: from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 15, 2005 03:50:15 PM Message-ID: <20050816005558.58462.qmail@mall-net.com> > IMPEACH THE CLINTONS AND THE BUSHES > ALIKE; > LET'S START THIS COUNTRY ALL OVER > AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. > Gee Clyde, I don't like that idea. How to begin ? There are how many of > us mongrels with nowhere to go. I have DNA that is Canadian French as well Nevermind that, if we started over again, we'd be way behind the Ruski's, the Chin, the Europeans, and everyone else. Not a good idea in this day and age! The place to start over again, is on the moon or on floating sea-cities. We really missed the boat on the floating cities when Hong Kong got taken over by the Chinese again. Just imagine most of Hong Kong, floating out to sea on linked ferrocrete barges. And enough of the Hong Kongese would probably have been willing to go there and try that, given the alternatives. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 15 17:59:52 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 15 18:00:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] IMPEACHMENT! In-Reply-To: <20050816005558.58462.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050816005952.20055.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> DAMN GOOD, AND COOL RESPONSE! CLYDE javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > IMPEACH THE CLINTONS AND THE BUSHES > ALIKE; > LET'S START THIS COUNTRY ALL OVER > AGAIN FROM SCRATCH. > Gee Clyde, I don't like that idea. How to begin ? There are how many of > us mongrels with nowhere to go. I have DNA that is Canadian French as well Nevermind that, if we started over again, we'd be way behind the Ruski's, the Chin, the Europeans, and everyone else. Not a good idea in this day and age! The place to start over again, is on the moon or on floating sea-cities. We really missed the boat on the floating cities when Hong Kong got taken over by the Chinese again. Just imagine most of Hong Kong, floating out to sea on linked ferrocrete barges. And enough of the Hong Kongese would probably have been willing to go there and try that, given the alternatives. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050815/fb185271/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Tue Aug 16 13:45:20 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 13:45:41 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions Message-ID: In a message dated 8/13/2005 4:17:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm, returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, though.). I see a City Boy here. All of the residue from corn is fed to cows and goats. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050816/741bd0a9/attachment.html From justinhart at gmail.com Tue Aug 16 14:22:32 2005 From: justinhart at gmail.com (Justin Hart) Date: Tue Aug 16 14:22:39 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I thought that we fed cows and goats the bits of cows and goats that nobody wanted to eat, hence the mad cow disease scare. Justin On 8/16/05, Vesta111@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 8/13/2005 4:17:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > javilk@mall-net.com writes: > Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm, > returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we > trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the > sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, > though.). > I see a City Boy here. All of the residue from corn is fed > to cows and goats. > Regards Vesta > > No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And > those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > -- Justin W. Hart From Vesta111 at aol.com Tue Aug 16 14:38:47 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 14:38:58 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again Message-ID: <1fd.7ec96e1.3033b6e7@aol.com> In a message dated 8/13/2005 6:45:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: Most common folks are afraid of nuclear, even when it provides power. The odd sound you hear is me laughing my head and butt off. What may I ask is a common person ? I have met street people with more degrees and blue blooded family then one could believe. How about the common Asian transplant without a 3rd. grade education yet they learn our language, social mores and hold down jobs with in a year of getting off the boat ? Could you or I do the same even with our education both from living and formal schooling ? I don't think I could. I have not been hungry enough, scared enough, have never felt hopeless or faced death for me and my whole family. Never had to walk 150 miles or more to a refugee camp, never had to bury my child along the way. Never watched my parents starve to death or disappear after the government knocked on the door, ( if we had one ). When you look at the new Asian Americans, do you think, perhaps, just maybe, it is you and I who are the common folk. It is not the nuclear power that the average Joe, not to mention the rocket scientists are afraid of. The fear is in the handling of all aspects of operation from inception to what the hell do we do with the radio active waste involved. Common people, strains of Dueling Banjos, da da da dat dah . Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050816/b60f3626/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 16 16:56:35 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 16:56:47 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again In-Reply-To: <1fd.7ec96e1.3033b6e7@aol.com> from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 16, 2005 05:38:47 PM Message-ID: <20050816235635.52808.qmail@mall-net.com> >> Most common folks are afraid of nuclear, even when it provides >> power. > How about the common Asian transplant without a 3rd. grade education > yet they learn our language, social mores and hold down jobs with in a year of > getting off the boat ? > I don't think I could. I have not been hungry enough, scared enough, have > never felt hopeless or faced death for me and my whole family. Never had to > walk 150 miles or more to a refugee camp, never had to bury my child along > the way. Never watched my parents starve to death or disappear after the > government knocked on the door, ( if we had one ). My parents essentially did just that. After being straffed on a train, the walk through Europe during the war, transmitted intelligence in formation to the allies, sabotaged the German's who were after them, ended up in a refugee camp. They came to America knowing almost no English, got some jobs making watch parts, found better jobs in Defense, and rebuilt their lives while learning English on the job, and later from a five year old kid who's job was to learn English from his kindergarten teacher, and correct their English. How could the do it? Easy -- "no way back!" The Commies took all their property. The Germans wanted them shot. More than a few commie and nazi bodies thanks to Bonnie and Clyde, who weren't into robbing banks, just staying alive. Forged papers, stolen papers, stolen guns, even stolen boots. Dad tells how he was machine gunned with a bunch of Jews because he looked a little Jewish, how he used a piece of newspaper to finagle his way out of a detention hall, how his work place was bombed, how the Gestapo went in the door to his radio room while he went out the window, how he held up a bunch of Gestapo by grabbing the guns out of their holsters when they demanded his papers, etc. How? Tomorrow didn't matter. As my father said, the first thing you have to do, is accept that you are a dead man walking. You won't make it. Smile. Let's just see how long we can play this game. And while we're dead, we might as well try to do some good for the side the good guys are on. And they weren't the only ones! Tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousand of good Europeans fled to America, where they rebuilt their lives from scratch. You and me? If we are healthy, We have it in ourselves to do the same. We just don't need to. If they had not been healthy, they would have died along the way, as a lot of others did. Oh yes, that game has some nasty consequences. Hypertension, heart disease, sleeping problems, post traumatic stress syndrome, short fuse, flash backes, etc. My father told how one day at the factory here in the US, he was talking to a German from a German company about some products, giving him a short tour of the company he worked for. Some construction workers in the background started nailing up a wall. At the first bang of a nail-gun, he turned and almost hit the floor diving for cover. Or while touring some trade fair, he had finished a most delicious hot dog. Someone made a comment to the hot dog vendor in Russian, the vendor replied in Russian, and all my father's meal shot up violently as some of his "life experiences" with the commies flashed by. A lot of things I learned never to ask about. He fought heart disease for fourty years, till he heard about http://www.PaulingTherapy.com But that did nothing about the dreams, even today, of running from commine and Germans. Medical journals reported a lot of Vietnamese immigrant men died in their sleep after emitting a soft groan. No known cause. Other than post traumatic stress syndrome. A lot of Europeans died too, but they were white, and doctors weren't keeping track in those days. > It is not the nuclear power that the average Joe, not to mention the rocket > scientists are afraid of. The fear is in the handling of all aspects of > operation from inception to what the hell do we do with the radio active > waste involved. Yep. To us who have Invested our lives in America, tomorrow matters. America opend her gates to us, housed us, fed us, clothed us, gave us lives. We owe her our Lives! And so, Father and Son willing to defend her with our lives. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 16 17:09:29 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 17:09:33 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Efficient solar energy, In-Reply-To: from "Justin Hart" at Aug 16, 2005 05:22:32 PM Message-ID: <20050817000929.60495.qmail@mall-net.com> >> > Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm,=20 >> > returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we >> > trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the >> > sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, >> > though.).=20 > > I see a City Boy here. All of the residue from corn is fed > > to cows and goats. Not a chance! Drive through farm country in fall, and you'll see a lot of residue burning in the fields. > I thought that we fed cows and goats the bits of cows and goats that > nobody wanted to eat, hence the mad cow disease scare. Not enough goats in the USA to eat the cow residue! Its made into dog food and cat food. By the way, I grew up between two farms, and as a traveling consultant, I've been in a lot of places from Maine to Florida, from Pennsylvania to Califaultia. Everywhere I've been, farmers burned their waste, returning CO2 to the air and minerals to the soil. Note that a rancher or a dairy farmer is not a real farmer. Ranchers and dairy farmers just feed cattle. Real farmers grow plants for fruit, roots, seeds, flowers, etc. with the rest of the plant being waste. I wonder how much the CO2 levels change during the year.... -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 16 17:36:11 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 17:36:15 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Doctor Biz In-Reply-To: <4300F6DA.2060105@swbell.net> from "Tim" at Aug 15, 2005 03:11:06 PM Message-ID: <20050817003611.77262.qmail@mall-net.com> > >>Hello Clyde-You sound angry-that's not crazy if you've been screwed ove= > r. I feel like what you say is true-harsh, and true. To wit, I am composi= > ng a list of what I went through when my health failed me, and how wrong = > they were and how many times. I have proof of their neglect, their repeat= > ed medical errors, incompetence, arrogance, insensitivity, judgmentalism = > and highly pharmaceutically-oriented group-think "Apparatchik" functional= > hypocrisy. It's taking me some time, as I want to be accurate and not ri= Wasn't this bad in the fifties and sixties, when we paid the doctors. Things changed when the insurance companies started paying for us, and the lawyers started suing doctors who did anything differently, and didn't cure every single person they treated. We were very good friends with our family doctor. We saw it unfold. And my father refused their heart treatments because he saw that EXCERCISE, not rest, helped hypertension. > sk missing something by reciting their complete medical buffoonery from m= > emory. I have copies of the records that are available to me, however fro= > m what I understand there may be a "secret" set of records that doctors k= > eep as well. Sounds conspiratorial doesn't it? I just heard that lately, = > I haven't checked it out, maybe on Snopes.com? At any rate-their stunning= > stupidity and CUPIDITY has me amazed. They seem to crave the worship tha= > t only ALMIGHTY GOD deserves, as well as loads of money, you know for the= > really important things in life...Yachts, Lexus/Mercedes, mansions, priv= Nope. Most don't seek worship, their minds are just closed and they are under stress. I've seen a lot of them both as patient, and as consultant to their computer needs. Squirely bunch. They are not god; but their closed attitude and knowing that most illness will go away on it's own time, does lead to their trying to reassure you, and hence the confidence schtick. Also, how would you like to be a doctor, treating patients who die, and knowing full well that you too, will die sooner or later. That is one hell of a mental burden! No wonder a lot of doctors become alcoholics. > ate schools, investments, etc. Not to mention all the freebies the Kings = > of Pharma dole out on their special Continuing Medical Education Credit S= > eminars-free trips, luncheons at the Medical Offices, luggage, airline cr= Nevermind that! The pharmacos paid for the teachers, school buildings, research, etc. No pharmacos, no huge medical schools! > ountered all of the types you list-I became the target when I rejected th= > eir ministrations of drugs, drugs, drugs and unnecessary surgery. I handl= > ed my health problems with research, appropriate requests for novel, alth= > ough scientifically supported treatment paradigms and supplements, rather= > than just drugs and surgeries, I got labeled for trying to save my own l= > ife. I despise most of them now-I'll post a list soon of all their screw-= Yes. "You can't be sick, I cured you!" "It's all in your head!" "That white stuff growing in your mouth, that's nothing! Everyone has it now and then. It will go away!" "Just don't become a hypochondriac!" Well, that white stuff was Candida Albecans, and I had the highest titers than anyone had ever seen in a living patient; but by then, I was recovering, thanks to good old vitamin C. (60 grams IV plus another 200 or so orally every day. Yep GRAMS, two teaspoons per hour is roughly ten grams per hour.) Plus yogurt, and a bunch of other strange, cheap things. > ups relevant to my health situation-NO personal names will be used. The s= > ad thing about saying there are still a few "GOOD" ones is that almost al= > l of them have so rationalized their greed and indifference to being true= > practitioners of the art of healing, that they think if they throw a pat= > ient a few pharmaceutical samples that they deserve to be lauded as good.= > NOT. Lisa R. Smith Modern medicine is excellent for short term illness and traumatic accidental damage. "For everything else... there's master card!" Cause your insurance company won't pay for alternative medicine, excessive vitamins, etc. And without that income... If you have continued immune, allergy, or chemical reactivity issues, join immune@immuneweb.org -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 18:14:54 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 16 18:15:54 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050816235635.52808.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050817011455.21328.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> JAVILK; Hypertension, heart disease, sleeping problems, post traumatic stress syndrome, short fuse, flash backs, etc. I AM SHELL SHOCKED BY REALITY; HYPERTENSION STRESS; POST TRAUMATIC STRESS; INSOMNIA FROM HELL; NUCLEAR BLAST-SHORT FUSE PERFECTIONISM TROUBLES; AND RACING THOUGHTS. MY FATHER AND MY FATHER'S FATHER, BOTH DIED, FROM HEART ATTACK. IT IS MY WILL NOT FOLLOW THEIR SAME PATHS. IT IS MY WILL TO BE BOTH A SURIVIOR, AND TO TRANSCEND ALL OF THEIR BULLSHIT, IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR ME TO DO. He fought heart disease for fourty years, till he heard about http://www.PaulingTherapy.com THIS IS A DAMN GOOD WEBSITE. I WILL SHARE IT WITH OTHERS. But that did nothing about the dreams, even today, of running from commies and Germans. Medical journals reported a lot of Vietnamese immigrant men died in their sleep after emitting a soft groan. No known cause. Other than post traumatic stress syndrome. THAT IS WHY I NEED TO COMPLETE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT, AND TO SLOW MY RACING HYPER VELOCITY THOUGHT PATTERNS, WAY WAY DOWN, TO ALPHA SERENITY; AND TO USE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. I ALSO NEED 24/7 ACCESS TO CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE THERAPY TECHNOLOGY TOO. http://www.chirocity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1573 I COULD OWN A TRACTION TABLE, IF I HAD A LITTLE OVER TWO GRAND TO SPEND. INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY NEEDS TO BE FURTHER MASS PRODUCED, FOR ALL OF US EQUALLY, AND WITH QUALITY HERE IN THE STATES, NOT IN COMMUNIST CRAP WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT GARBAGE CHINA. MY THOUGHTS; ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT TECHNOLOGY, AND INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGIES ARE TESLA TECHNOLOGIES; OR; MAYBE MORE ACCURATELY; THERAPY TECHNOLOGIES THAT TESLA WORKED TOWARD THE FUTURE OF. THE U.S., AND OUR ALLIES NEED REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGIES, MASS PRODUCED, ON A GRAND SCALE, HERE IN THE STATES, AT WORLD WAR TWO WAR MACHINE SPEED, ON A GRAND COOPERATIVE EFFORT FOR US ALL. > It is not the nuclear power that the average Joe, not to mention the rocket > scientists are afraid of. The fear is in the handling of all aspects of > operation from inception to what the hell do we do with the radio active > waste involved. Yep. To us who have Invested our lives in America, tomorrow matters. America opend her gates to us, housed us, fed us, clothed us, gave us lives. We owe her our Lives! And so, Father and Son willing to defend her with our lives. AMERICA IS STILL A GOOD COUNTRY, BUT FROM MY LOWER MIDDLE CLASS PERSPECTIVE; IT IS ALSO VERY FUCKED UP, FROM MY ABUSED CHILDHOOD PERSPECTIVE, AS WELL. THE PAIN IS SO GREAT, THAT IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO CONTINUE TO BEAR 'IN LIFE'. I WANT AMERICA TO BE AMERICA AGAIN! NOT THIS FUCKING WARZONE BETWEEN THE FUCKING COMMUNIST LIBERALS, AND THE FUCKING FASCIST CONSERVATIVES. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL WAS NOT SUCH A GOOD THING TO HAPPEN FOR ANY OF US. HEALTH, WEALTH, AND HAPPINESS ARE FLEETING GLIMPSES OF THINGS THAT I NEED, BUT THAT I CANNOT HAVE. DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SOME CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, IN A SUFFICIENT DOSAGE, TO CALL IT QUITS, ON ENDLESS GO NO WHERE, AND ENDLESS PAIN, SUFFERING AND MISERY?? DO ANY MAD SCIENTISTS DELIBERATELY END THEIR LIVES FROM FRUSTRATION AND BROKEN HEARTEDNESS? I AM SICK OF THE ENVIRONMENT OF TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA. THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE ARE SICK, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED BECAUSE OF THEM. TULSA IS A PRISON. PLEASE REPLY. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050816/7332e901/attachment.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Tue Aug 16 18:39:46 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Tue Aug 16 18:39:54 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mad Cat disease? Message-ID: <00e101c5a2cc$8dc0fb70$6501a8c0@mikey> > Not enough goats in the USA to eat the cow residue! Its made into > dog food and cat food. Yep! And those nasty prions then get into my kitties! This would explain why I've seen several die this past 18 months from a mysterious disease with symptomology resembling scrapie and/or BSE. Their vet had no idea what the problem was, and could only provide palliative treatment. I chose euthanasia when they began to suffer too much. I've lost three cats to this over the last eighteen months. The next time, I'll do an autopsy, and look for the classic prion-induced brain damage. I dissected cats years ago in college; I can do it again. If I find it, I'll publish it. Now this has far deeper ramifications! First, the "downer" cows that are not allowed into the human food chain surely wind up in pet food! I doubt that Big Agrobusyness like Excel would just incinerate a downer, but would find a way to sell it- can't lose that profit now, can we? So the prions wind up in pet food. Killing a cat or dog from C-J is preferable to killing a human or losing the profit, and the pet's survivors cannot sue for wrongful death! BUT... what of the little old lady on Social Security who eats pet food because she cannot afford both good food AND heating oil at $3/gallon, on her fixed income? Oh that's right- she gets "Alzheimer's," and soon ceases to be a burden on the Socialist Security System! With the Baby Boomers moving into retirement age, and Gen X not having enough members to support the Socialist Security System, we either need more paying into the System, or fewer collecting from it. Which is easier (and cheaper) to accomplish- birth or death? Just ask Hitler, Stalin, or Mao. -MB From mbest at triad.rr.com Tue Aug 16 20:16:02 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Tue Aug 16 20:16:08 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" Message-ID: <00ea01c5a2da$003d3a30$6501a8c0@mikey> >From Medscape Pharmacists Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" Posted 08/11/2005 Christine Wiebe The widely publicized stories of a few pharmacists who refused to dispense the "morning after pill" have ignited a firestorm of controversy in the profession and in the public. A recent poll conducted on Medscape unearthed smoldering opinions on both sides of the issue. It also revealed that those few pharmacists making headlines actually reflect the feelings of many more, while others have strongly opposing views as well. We found readers' comments so interesting and compelling that we decided to share some of them with you. We had to do some editing and some condensing, but we have tried to preserve readers' voices. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510299?src=mp (free registration required, or contact me off-list for copyrighted article, which I will provide under "fair use" clause) From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 16 22:34:35 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 16 22:34:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: NO REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050816235635.52808.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050817053435.19829.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> JAVILK; Hypertension, heart disease, sleeping problems, post traumatic stress syndrome, short fuse, flash backs, etc. I AM SHELL SHOCKED BY REALITY; HYPERTENSION STRESS; POST TRAUMATIC STRESS; INSOMNIA FROM HELL; NUCLEAR BLAST-SHORT FUSE PERFECTIONISM TROUBLES; AND RACING THOUGHTS. MY FATHER AND MY FATHER'S FATHER, BOTH DIED, FROM HEART ATTACK. IT IS MY WILL NOT FOLLOW THEIR SAME PATHS. IT IS MY WILL TO BE BOTH A SURIVIOR, AND TO TRANSCEND ALL OF THEIR BULLSHIT, IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR ME TO DO. He fought heart disease for fourty years, till he heard about http://www.PaulingTherapy.com THIS IS A DAMN GOOD WEBSITE. I WILL SHARE IT WITH OTHERS. But that did nothing about the dreams, even today, of running from commies and Germans. Medical journals reported a lot of Vietnamese immigrant men died in their sleep after emitting a soft groan. No known cause. Other than post traumatic stress syndrome. THAT IS WHY I NEED TO COMPLETE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT, AND TO SLOW MY RACING HYPER VELOCITY THOUGHT PATTERNS, WAY WAY DOWN, TO ALPHA SERENITY; AND TO USE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. I ALSO NEED 24/7 ACCESS TO CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE THERAPY TECHNOLOGY TOO. http://www.chirocity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1573 I COULD OWN A TRACTION TABLE, IF I HAD A LITTLE OVER TWO GRAND TO SPEND. INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY NEEDS TO BE FURTHER MASS PRODUCED, FOR ALL OF US EQUALLY, AND WITH QUALITY HERE IN THE STATES, NOT IN COMMUNIST CRAP WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT GARBAGE CHINA. MY THOUGHTS; ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT TECHNOLOGY, AND INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGIES ARE TESLA TECHNOLOGIES; OR; MAYBE MORE ACCURATELY; THERAPY TECHNOLOGIES THAT TESLA WORKED TOWARD THE FUTURE OF. THE U.S., AND OUR ALLIES NEED REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGIES, MASS PRODUCED, ON A GRAND SCALE, HERE IN THE STATES, AT WORLD WAR TWO WAR MACHINE SPEED, ON A GRAND COOPERATIVE EFFORT FOR US ALL. > It is not the nuclear power that the average Joe, not to mention the rocket > scientists are afraid of. The fear is in the handling of all aspects of > operation from inception to what the hell do we do with the radio active > waste involved. Yep. To us who have Invested our lives in America, tomorrow matters. America opend her gates to us, housed us, fed us, clothed us, gave us lives. We owe her our Lives! And so, Father and Son willing to defend her with our lives. AMERICA IS STILL A GOOD COUNTRY, BUT FROM MY LOWER MIDDLE CLASS PERSPECTIVE; IT IS ALSO VERY FUCKED UP, FROM MY ABUSED CHILDHOOD PERSPECTIVE, AS WELL. THE PAIN IS SO GREAT, THAT IT IS DIFFICULT FOR ME TO CONTINUE TO BEAR 'IN LIFE'. I WANT AMERICA TO BE AMERICA AGAIN! NOT THIS FUCKING WARZONE BETWEEN THE FUCKING COMMUNIST LIBERALS, AND THE FUCKING FASCIST CONSERVATIVES. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL WAS NOT SUCH A GOOD THING TO HAPPEN FOR ANY OF US. HEALTH, WEALTH, AND HAPPINESS ARE FLEETING GLIMPSES OF THINGS THAT I NEED, BUT THAT I CANNOT HAVE. DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SOME CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, IN A SUFFICIENT DOSAGE, TO CALL IT QUITS, ON ENDLESS GO NO WHERE, AND ENDLESS PAIN, SUFFERING AND MISERY?? DO ANY MAD SCIENTISTS DELIBERATELY END THEIR LIVES FROM FRUSTRATION AND BROKEN HEARTEDNESS? I AM SICK OF THE ENVIRONMENT OF TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA. THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE ARE SICK, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED BECAUSE OF THEM. TULSA IS A PRISON. PLEASE REPLY. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050816/13b6fd6c/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 16 23:27:06 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 23:27:10 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050817011455.21328.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 16, 2005 06:14:54 PM Message-ID: <20050817062706.52101.qmail@mall-net.com> > Hypertension, heart disease, sleeping problems, post traumatic stress syndrome, short fuse, flash backs, etc. > I AM SHELL SHOCKED BY REALITY; HYPERTENSION STRESS; POST TRAUMATIC STRESS; INSOMNIA FROM HELL; NUCLEAR BLAST-SHORT FUSE PERFECTIONISM TROUBLES; AND RACING THOUGHTS. Post traumatic stress disorder is characterized by slow brain wave forms and low body temperature with some adrenaline spikes. That sounds more like the opposite of your symtomology. But you could look into EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy. > MY FATHER AND MY FATHER'S FATHER, BOTH DIED, FROM HEART ATTACK. > IT IS MY WILL NOT FOLLOW THEIR SAME PATHS. > IT IS MY WILL TO BE BOTH A SURIVIOR, AND TO TRANSCEND ALL OF THEIR BULLSHIT, IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR ME TO DO. The most important thing is that you are trying! So keep trying and you will likely find some things to make life better. It realy does not matter how they died; what matters is that you don't give up, or you will have effectively followed their paths a lot younger! > He fought heart disease for fourty years, till he heard about > http://www.PaulingTherapy.com > > THIS IS A DAMN GOOD WEBSITE. > But that did nothing about the dreams, even today, of running from commies and Germans. > > Medical journals reported a lot of Vietnamese immigrant men died in > their sleep after emitting a soft groan. No known cause. Other than > post traumatic stress syndrome. > > THAT IS WHY I NEED TO COMPLETE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT, AND TO SLOW MY RACING HYPER VELOCITY THOUGHT PATTERNS, WAY WAY DOWN, TO ALPHA SERENITY; AND TO USE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. Alpha numbs the mind. I think Theta would be more appropriate, 7.83hz. Works for me. See Anna Wise, "The High Performance Mind; and Hutchinson "Mega Brain Power" and any subsequent books he may have written. He did have a newsletter at one point. > I ALSO NEED 24/7 ACCESS TO CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE THERAPY TECHNOLOGY TOO. > > http://www.chirocity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1573 Interesting. I wonder if it's that hard to build something like this. > INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY NEEDS TO BE FURTHER MASS PRODUCED, FOR ALL OF US EQUALLY, AND WITH QUALITY HERE IN THE STATES, NOT IN COMMUNIST CRAP WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT GARBAGE CHINA. > Well, the choice is whether you can afford it or not. $500 from China, or $3000 from the USA. > MY THOUGHTS; ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT TECHNOLOGY, AND INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGIES ARE TESLA TECHNOLOGIES; OR; MAYBE MORE ACCURATELY; THERAPY TECHNOLOGIES THAT TESLA WORKED TOWARD THE FUTURE OF. > Different people need different things. > THE U.S., AND OUR ALLIES NEED REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGIES, MASS PRODUCED, ON A GRAND SCALE, HERE IN THE STATES, AT WORLD WAR TWO WAR MACHINE SPEED, ON A GRAND COOPERATIVE EFFORT FOR US ALL. I doubt many people would use it. Just because it is something that helps you, does not mean that others will find it as pleasant or as useful as you would. > Yep. To us who have Invested our lives in America, tomorrow > matters. America opend her gates to us, housed us, fed us, clothed us, > gave us lives. We owe her our Lives! And so, Father and Son willing to > defend her with our lives. > > AMERICA IS STILL A GOOD COUNTRY, BUT FROM MY LOWER MIDDLE CLASS PERSPECTIVE; IT IS ALSO VERY FUCKED UP, FROM MY ABUSED CHILDHOOD PERSPECTIVE, AS WELL. (Chuckle) You have no idea how bad some other countries are! Why do you think so many try to enter America? > I WANT AMERICA TO BE AMERICA AGAIN! It's always been America, only different. > NOT THIS FUCKING WARZONE BETWEEN THE FUCKING COMMUNIST LIBERALS, AND THE FUCKING FASCIST CONSERVATIVES. The extremes are, of course, extreme. But there is a lot in the middle. More in the middle than near the edges. > IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL WAS NOT SUCH A GOOD THING TO HAPPEN FOR ANY OF US. Any change brings good and bad. I think the fall of the Communists was a very good thing for the USA, and for the world. However... we appear to have not taken the best steps after it. Also, we paid a very high price for our cold war efforts; but we did not appreciate what those efforts did for our technology. The cold war started resulting in our national highway system, space exploration, better weather forecasts (saving tens of thousands of lives each year), computer technology (Von Neumann, Grace Hopper, et al developing the first real computers.), Integrated circuits, and a host of other things which we take for granted. If it had not been for the cold war, there would not have been any rush for any of this! > HEALTH, WEALTH, AND HAPPINESS ARE FLEETING GLIMPSES OF THINGS THAT I NEED, BUT THAT I CANNOT HAVE. Welcome ot the club called "Life". > DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. > DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SOME CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, IN A SUFFICIENT DOSAGE, TO CALL IT QUITS, ON ENDLESS GO NO WHERE, AND ENDLESS PAIN, SUFFERING AND MISERY?? Do you want to lose? Or to win? If you quit, all is lost. Just like when your father died. > DO ANY MAD SCIENTISTS DELIBERATELY END THEIR LIVES FROM FRUSTRATION AND BROKEN HEARTEDNESS? People do it for any number of reasons. But so what! You are still young, there is still a lot of potential which you can reach. All the really good scientists overcame difficulties ranging from lack of cash, to bad Igors screwing up their experiments because they thought the experiments went against God! > I AM SICK OF THE ENVIRONMENT OF TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA. > THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE ARE SICK, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED BECAUSE OF THEM. Clyde, the prison is in your mind, Not Oklahoma. If it's in your mind, you can change it. Go take a dish of water, drop some light machine oil on it, and look for the rainbow in shallow-angle light. See how pretty it is? You can find some of that type of thing in the real world, and a lot of other things. Flowers growing by the sidewalks, and sometimes through them, cloud formations, etc. Go to photoblogs.com and browse through some of the more interesting photographs, looking at color, composition, etc. There are thousands of photos there, don't get hung up on any one artist who might be having a bad week in some city. There are beautiful nature photos there! Something about Durham County is particularly good. There is beauty all around you, Clyde. You just have to look for it so that your mind can begin to recognize it. You've been in a pressure cooker too long. You need to do a little wandering through some photos, and through some empty lots, looking at wildflowers, insects, etc. That's what rejuvenation the mind. I use to study till my mind went blank, then wander outside in the evening, letting it decide what was beautiful. Lights reflecting from water, sunset colors, flowers, etc. Life is full of beauty! You just have to look for it. And when you do, you will see that there is beauty in yourself, too. The way you create things, the questions you sometimes ask... many things you do inspire others. (I mean, just look at what you say here. You inspire me to tell you life is better than you think; and that inspires others. I kind of hope you will get better and inspire others directly, though that does take time.) -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 16 23:46:45 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 16 23:46:49 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: NO REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050817053435.19829.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 16, 2005 10:34:35 PM Message-ID: <20050817064645.60834.qmail@mall-net.com> I am not always at the computer. I have a bunch of projects that I'm not getting done too! Today, Barry didn't bring the water truck till late. My laundry was delayed. I did some work on my solar system as the place cooled in the evening. I also called a bunch of people trying to get them to rent to me, and worked on my rental tracking system, etc. And still did nothing about the real Mad Scientist projects that I want to do to prove to the world that... well... You know, I don't really know what I want to prove to the world. I just want to prove to MYSELF that I was right in some ideas about physics and chemistry, or if not right, figure out how to do them anyway! If they make a profit, as I think they should, then good. But like any mad scientist, I WANT TO KNOW!!! And the only way I know of finding out, is to do the experiments. Which means a lot of construction work that hasn't taken place in years because of all kinds of other crap going on in my life. But that's life. I invented the web browser in 1982, Clyde. I couldn't sell it for the life of me! I developed word processing utilities n 1978 which I could not sell successfully, I had the vision of what we now call Ethernet, but didn't have the knowledge of how to build it. In fact, I devised the basic signal collision system that is the essence of Ethernet back in 1978. I wanted to start a search engine in 1996, but didn't know how till 1998, when tinkering with that lead to another business that I ran from 1998 to 9/11/2001, when the economy fell apart, killing some of my clients and resources. I was trying to start an on-line auction system in 1995, did start some chat page communities which didn't take off like some of the big ones, etc. etc. etc. etc.. I invented a bunch of other things that I just could not get anyone to buy. That's just life. Each time we try, we learn more. The only failure, is the person who stops trying. The game of life is not over. Till it's over, you don't know if you are going to be a winner, or a loser! They say that the first two companies you start will not do well. Yep. I've started several small companies, and they just kind of staggered around making barely enough for me to live. But I learned! And it beat the heck out of working non-stop for some company that I didn't own. Unfortunately, my priority now has to be finding a place I can move to. I've negotiated an intersting place; but the road is too steep. So I'm back on the market looking for another place here in the mountains. But you know, Clyde, any day you wake up breathing is a great day! As I joke with my father regarding my predicament here on the mountain, "But no one is shooting at me!" So life is a hell of a lot better for me, than what my father went through in WW-II in Europe. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From Vesta111 at aol.com Wed Aug 17 00:06:09 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 17 00:06:15 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again Message-ID: <13d.197422b7.30343be1@aol.com> In a message dated 8/13/2005 9:27:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: WELDED-ONE-PIECE-FRAMED MICRO TETRA-GEODESIC DOMES, BUILT LIKE TANKS, REQUIRING AS MINIMAL MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE, ARE A DREAM; THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IT PULL OFF, INTO THE MAKING IT INTO A TRUE REALITY. Clyde, how surprising !!!! As different as we too people can be, we share the same dream. Buckminister Fuller was awesome. I have thought of placing a dome in the ground, perhaps 10 feet to 20 feet down, energy savings, you could live 50 feet from a busy airport and have complete silence. Lousy view but everything has a down side. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050817/710e8d22/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 17 00:14:20 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 17 00:14:29 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad Cat disease? In-Reply-To: <00e101c5a2cc$8dc0fb70$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 16, 2005 09:39:46 PM Message-ID: <20050817071420.73328.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > Not enough goats in the USA to eat the cow residue! Its made into = > > > dog food and cat food. =20 > > Yep! And those nasty prions then get into my kitties! This would = > explain > why I've seen several die this past 18 months from a mysterious disease = > with > symptomology resembling scrapie and/or BSE. Their vet had no idea what = ... > Just ask Hitler, Stalin, or Mao. Mike, those three evil people did so much worse than anything you've said or encountered! They willingly sacrificed significant portions of their populations, putting living human beings into slave camps where they were tortured, malnourished, and murdered. What agribusiness does here is not deliberate evil, and certainly not on the scale of Mao or Stalin! Hitler was just a piker who was stupid enough to pick on a rather vocal people. You don't hear that over half of the people in work/death camps were NOT Jewish, because the other groups were not as vocal, educated, or determined. What some of us smarter folks see happening is caused by a lot of beliefs which are self serving and erroneous; but not the kind of deliberate evils which those three did. (You can add Phol Pot to that list.) Come on, Mike, you're the one who's supposedly big on realism. Look at the comparative scale of things. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 17 09:01:54 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 17 09:02:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WOW! Message-ID: <010f01c5a344$fd5fba20$6501a8c0@mikey> I have no idea what to think of this yet; I haven't the time right now to check the links. But it seems like it needs to be posted here! http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/?tesla?/glitesla.html -MB From Vesta111 at aol.com Wed Aug 17 14:36:30 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Wed Aug 17 14:36:47 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism Message-ID: In a message dated 8/14/2005 9:29:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: Microwaves... is that really cooling cooking? I mean, sure, it's the applicatin of energy to heat food. But do chef's really consider it cooking cooking? If not, why not Cooking is chemistry, the act of eating, or absorbing, creates even more chemistry in the body of man, animal or plant. Preparing food is cooking , as is heating the food, or chilling it before consuming. Chemical reactions to ingredients mixed together change because of humidity, altitude, temperature, and believe it or not the lack of or too much movement. Cooking is math. very precise math. In America we use fractions in cooking, damn those fractions!!!! It is only when a recipe has been used dozens of times will anyone cooking use the old eye ball measure, a pinch here, a scant there. The mess caused by the Ergot fungus in the rye plant is an example of things can go extremely bad with food. Home canning is dangerous. The E-coli in raw meats, and in one case apples for heaven sake makes me stay our of greasy spoons, where unfortunately I find the food better tasting then most 3 star establishments. Wars have been fought over spices, at one time you could buy a full grown healthy, young male slave for one pound of pepper corns. Where on the net can I go to find out if Nasa has researched the chemistry of food in space? Do food plants grow in weight less conditions ? I don't believe we can go into space long term without knowing we can feed ourselves and not depend on the freeze dried and squeeze tube nutrition. Can't go on liquid diet, no fiber, got to have fiber or our space people will get the " piles" the size of tennis balls. Just thinking about it gives me a pain in the butt------Haaaaaaaaaaaha. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050817/29e5aaae/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 17 14:56:47 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 17 14:56:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 17, 2005 05:36:30 PM Message-ID: <20050817215647.27657.qmail@mall-net.com> >> Microwaves... is that really cooling cooking? I mean, sure, it's >> the applicatin of energy to heat food. But do chef's really >>consider it >> cooking cooking? If not, why not I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet standards! (I know, it's MS's G**D***** arrogance, not yours, in setting it up this way so they can break everyting that they don't own! With billions of dollars loss from their virus emabling stupidity, MS machines should be banned from the internet!) It's damned hard to know who wrote what when your screwball mail handler does not add the quotemarks as per convention. I have to go edit everything to make it readable to to others. > Cooking is chemistry, the act of eating, or absorbing, creates even more > chemistry in the body of man, animal or plant. Preparing food is cooking , as > is heating the food, or chilling it before consuming. > > Chemical reactions to ingredients mixed together change because of humidity, > altitude, temperature, and believe it or not the lack of or too much > movement. I know, I know. What I meant was from a Real Chef's perspective, not a chemist's or a homemaker's. > Wars have been fought over spices, at one time you could buy a full grown > healthy, young male slave for one pound of pepper corns. And don't forget those wooden nutmegs New England exported. To work that hard carving a fake nutmeg means it was highly valuable! > I don't believe we can go into space long term without knowing we can feed > ourselves and not depend on the freeze dried and squeeze tube nutrition. Processed food isn't that good for us. Vegetables and fruits use up the the vitamin C in them to keep themselves alive on the store shelf. And the fiber, as you pointed out. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From Vesta111 at aol.com Thu Aug 18 00:09:22 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 18 00:09:33 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REVISED; AND I FORGOT TO ADD.... Message-ID: <45.2e805040.30358e22@aol.com> In a message dated 8/15/2005 12:08:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: ALL OF THESE FUCKING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OF THE COMMERICIALISM OF PHARMACOLOGY, HAVE SO MANY DAMNED SIDE EFFECTS; SIDE EFFECTS MORE ACCURATELY PUT, = DIRECT EFFECTS. I found this posted directly beneath your post, now that's handy. Dear Vesta, Here is your latest health tip on the topic of... Have A Banana If you want a quick fix for flagging energy levels there's no better snack than a banana. Containing three natural sugars - sucrose, fructose and glucose - combined with fiber, a banana gives an instant, sustained and substantial boost of energy. Research has proved that just two bananas provide enough energy for a strenuous 90-minute workout. No wonder the banana is the number one fruit with the world's leading athletes. But energy isn't the only way a banana can help us keep fit. It can also help overcome or prevent a substantial number of illnesses and conditions making it a must to add to your daily diet. f you want a quick fix for flagging energy levels there's no better snack than a banana. Besides being a quick fix for flagging energy levels during the day, bananas can also help overcome or prevent a substantial number of illnesses and conditions making it a must to add to your daily diet. Anemia: High in iron, bananas can stimulate the production of hemoglobin in the blood and so helps in cases of anemia. Blood Pressure: This unique tropical fruit is extremely high in potassium yet low in salt, making it the perfect food for helping to beat blood pressure. So much so, the US Food and Drug Administration has just allowed the banana industry to make official claims for the fruit's ability to reduce the risk of blood pressure and stroke. Brain Power: 200 students at a Twickenham (Middlesex) school were helped through their exams this year by eating bananas at breakfast, break and lunch in a bid to boost their brain power. Research has shown that the potassium-packed fruit can assist learning by making pupils more alert. Constipation: High in fiber, including bananas in the diet can help restore normal bowel action, helping to overcome the problem without resorting to laxatives. Depression: According to a recent survey undertaken by MIND amongst people suffering from depression, many felt much better after eating a banana. This is because bananas contain trypotophan, a type of protein that the body converts into serotonin known to make you relax, improve your mood and generally make you feel happier. Hangovers: One of the quickest ways of curing a hangover is to make a banana milkshake, sweetened with honey. The banana calms the stomach and, with the help of the honey, builds up depleted blood sugar levels, while the milk soothes and re-hydrates your system. ------------------------------------------------------ Regards Vesta .When freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050818/4ca1af6a/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 18 00:21:54 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 18 00:22:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REVISED; AND I FORGOT TO ADD.... In-Reply-To: <45.2e805040.30358e22@aol.com> from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 18, 2005 03:09:22 AM Message-ID: <20050818072154.15290.qmail@mall-net.com> >> ALL OF THESE FUCKING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OF THE COMMERICIALISM OF >> PHARMACOLOGY, HAVE SO MANY DAMNED SIDE EFFECTS; SIDE EFFECTS MORE >> ACCURATELY PUT, = >> DIRECT EFFECTS. > Have A Banana BINGO!!! Thankyou Vesta! > Depression: > According to a recent survey undertaken by MIND amongst > people suffering from depression, many felt much better > after eating a banana. This is because bananas contain > trypotophan, a type of protein that the body converts > into serotonin known to make you relax, improve your mood > and generally make you feel happier. YES!!! Tryptophan is important in maintaining a healthy attitude toward life. Clyde, I think some of your problems may be seratonin/dopamine imbalance. (I'm not a doctor! This is only an educated guess.) > Blood Pressure: > This unique tropical fruit is extremely high in potassium > yet low in salt, making it the perfect food for helping > to beat blood pressure. So much so, the US Food and Drug > Administration has just allowed the banana industry to > make official claims for the fruit's ability to reduce > the risk of blood pressure and stroke. YES!!! But you also need to balance that with magnesium. Too much potassium will draing the body's magnesium reserves, and peristalsis, the wave of contractions in your gut, will fail if there is not enough magnesium. Most Americans are low on magnesium. (You get magnesium by eating green veggies. Some also enters the skin if you soak in a hot bath of epsom salts.) > Hangovers: > One of the quickest ways of curing a hangover is to make > a banana milkshake, sweetened with honey. The banana > calms the stomach and, with the help of the honey, builds > up depleted blood sugar levels, while the milk soothes > and re-hydrates your system. Too much sugar isn't really good for you... but... if you don't have hypoglycemic tendencies... bananas are a good snack. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From texastjs at swbell.net Thu Aug 18 14:44:14 2005 From: texastjs at swbell.net (Tim) Date: Thu Aug 18 19:49:44 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <20050817003617.1E44139840@kang.vjc.com> References: <20050817003617.1E44139840@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <4305012E.1030104@swbell.net> mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG wrote: >Send Mad-Scientists mailing list submissions to > mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >You can reach the person managing the list at > mad-scientists-owner@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Mad-Scientists digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re: Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions > (Vesta111@aol.com) > 2. Re: Re: Efficient solar energy, without net carbon emissions > (Justin Hart) > 3. Re: Etc., again (Vesta111@aol.com) > 4. Re: Etc., again (javilk@mall-net.com) > 5. Re: Re: Efficient solar energy, (javilk@mall-net.com) > 6. Re: Re: Doctor Biz (javilk@mall-net.com) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:45:20 EDT >From: Vesta111@aol.com >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Efficient solar energy, without net > carbon emissions >To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > >In a message dated 8/13/2005 4:17:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >javilk@mall-net.com writes: > >Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm, >returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we >trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the >sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, >though.). > > I see a City Boy here. All of the residue from corn is fed >to cows and goats. >Regards Vesta > > >No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And >those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050816/741bd0a9/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:22:32 -0400 >From: Justin Hart >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Efficient solar energy, without net > carbon emissions >To: Mad-Scientists Discussion List >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >I thought that we fed cows and goats the bits of cows and goats that >nobody wanted to eat, hence the mad cow disease scare. > >Justin > >On 8/16/05, Vesta111@aol.com wrote: > > >> >> >> >>In a message dated 8/13/2005 4:17:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >>javilk@mall-net.com writes: >> Lots of corn waste, the stalks, etc. is burned on the farm, >>returning CO2 to the atmosphere and ash to the soil. Supposedly, if we >>trucked all the residual stuff and dumped it in to the depths of the >>sea, we could meet Kyoto emissions no sweat! (Might deplete the soil, >>though.). >> I see a City Boy here. All of the residue from corn is fed >>to cows and goats. >>Regards Vesta >> >>No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And >>those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Mad-Scientists mailing list >>Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >>http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists >> >> >> >> >> > > > > Reply from Lisa R. Smith: RE: Doctors-Closed minded/Godlike know-it-all attitudes, squirrely or not, I think most just do the easiest thing-they are "Apparatchiks" gone GOLEM, i.e. they do not think for themselves past the choice of Mercedes/Lexus automobile paint color and whether fine leather interior or cloth for the seats. "Standards of Care" are being pushed by the Big Drug Industries-as medical care paradigms, this in itself is a problem as NOVEL and USEFUL Therapies will be discarded in favor of the "same old, same old" disease MANAGEMENT-NOT CURES that are enormously profitable for Big Pharma, and how morally/ethically challenged that makes Doctors become. If they dare to innovate-they have automatically become guilty of malpractice, due to these supposed "STANDARDS OF CARE." By the way-the malpractice thing is way over-hyped! IT is VERY Difficult to win a malpractice case. If Doctors take the time to listen to and care for their patients, they rarely sue. Most people have an internalized sense of "fair play" and rarely turn on their Doctors for mistakes, if the Doctors are humble and honest with them. I ought to know about that-I have a background in law-practiced as an independent paralegal, and even though those BONEHEADS messed up repeatedly-I have yet to sue! Not that I have much respect for them now, and they definitely cringe back from me. THEY WERE WRONG! AND GOD DO THEY HATE TO KNOW IT. It surprised them that I survived after my checking out early after surgery, they had left me on a table so long that my appendix burst and I was contaminated because of the long wait for surgery. You see, I am a middle-aged female, and they preferred labeling and leaving me to get worse-to doing the surgery expeditiously. The first Pakistani Quack said I was just a typical female with a bellyache. The oriental (Chinese?) Doc however had better skills and insisted I was truly ill. Nevertheless, Nurse Ratched-insisted I drink down CONTRAST Brew even though she'd seen me vomitting as I came into the ER! And which Vomitting pissed her off visibly! Never one to be tortured without standing up for myself-I climbed off the gurney, poured out the fluid, put a "GOT Milk?" mustache on my lips of contrast dye and rang her to take me to X-RAY. You see Nurse Ratched was quite prepared for me to die if I couldn't drink the AMOUNT of CONTRAST FLUID SHE FELT NECESSARY-and which I so obviously, intentionally,cantankerously and obstinantly kept throwing up! Being smart enough to trick her into thinking I had been able to drink it down-saved my life! She took the bait, and sent me upstairs, X-RAY took the PIX , got the Surgeon, prepared the Operations theatre, got me prepped and operated. I did however, end up having to run for my life just 16(?) hours after the emergency appendectomy (they were forcing some treatments on me, against my consent).One was PHENERGAN I.V. (Burning down my veins! I still have a sore lump in my left arm nearly a year later) and then a breathing treatment I did NOT NEED and THAT I REFUSED TWICE! I didn't want to end up with E.Coli in my lungs like a friend of mine who died in that same hospital paralyzed from brain surgery, cross-infected in his lungs and the hospital denied infecting him! I know what they (Doctors and Nurses) do is often difficult-it's just the unbelievable hubris and arrogance and outright chicanery I object to. There should be careful inquiries into hospital accidents, cross-contaminations/infections, and bad patient care or poor doctoring or malfeasance/malpractice, etc. Perhaps a bit of reading will help persuade, according to most surveys I have read-BY CONSERVATIVE EXTAPOLATIONS, drawn from HOSPITAL DEATH RECORDS, Doctors kill/maim more patients each day than a Jumbo Jet crash a day would, same for Guns deaths! This is from COMBINED CAUSES-ex. poor judgment, medical error, treatment errors, over-dose, wrong medicine, wrong procedures, overlooked or missed diagnoses, wrong patient, hospital acquired infections, in short ALL IATROGENIC (Hospital/Physician Caused). THE ACTUAL CAUSE OF DEATH IS ATTRIBUTED TO SOME CO-MORBID DISEASE the patient had, and it is instead cannily used as a "COVER" for the actual hospital/doctor cause of the patient's demise, on the death record! If you or a loved one must go to the hospital-make sure someone knowledgeable regarding treatment issues, health problems and your medical history is with you at all times! AS I said earlier, I had to run for my life! I honestly believe the Respiratory Therapist would have cross-infected me with some God-Awful Pneumonia (HOSPITAL STRENGTH PATHOGEN) and my lung problem would have increased exponentially. Another friend of mine was left to explode from backed up urine/ full bag after a RADICAL PROSTATECTOMY. My husband was nearly bled to death from Heparin overdose-I noticed his lap full of blood when I came to be with him after double-Angioplasties and I got excited and insisted they put a halt to the over dose! I have more examples, believe me, I just don't want to be boring. I felt like printing that LIST out and planting it in a few places the doctors frequent (our local coffeehouse/bookstore combo near a major hospital). Anarchist that I am presumed to be-I haven't. But, I do have a book planned called the High Priests of Pharma. We'll see! LOL! Lisa R. Smith From Vesta111 at aol.com Thu Aug 18 15:59:27 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Thu Aug 18 19:50:57 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research Message-ID: <1a6.3d31bc0d.30366ccf@aol.com> In a message dated 8/15/2005 2:21:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: Then there are the inverters. The most important thing is idle current. Run the lowest idle current, which is probably the smallest generator, for the lights. get a larger one you can switch to when you need middle levels of power, such as running window sized cooling fans. And either get a really big one for higher loads, or start the generator. I start the generator to use the microwave oven; why beat the batteries to death? What I'd really like to do, is use the heat from these for hot water heating; but I'm mechanically inept. Not so long ago I spent 18 months in the U.P. of Michigan. What a place, fantastic !!! I was living in NEGAUNEE, home to a few hundred Finnish folks. Most are 2nd. or 3rd. generation Iron miners, the last below ground mine, the Mather B closed in the early 80ies, I was there in the mid 70ies when the Mather B was open. One of the wonderful things about that part of the country was the Finnish culture. Not only was their speaking accent fun but the food and some intact traditions of Finland, going back before the Vikings , still practiced there and adopted by the rest of the world today. The Sauna, proper pronouncement SOW_NA. It is told that the first Finns in America that ended up as miners in Michigan arrived without a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out. They had family and needed shelter. So they built the Sauna and lived in it until they could build proper homes. I was lucky to be able to see and use the Saunas both public and private. The best private Sauna I ever used was a small out building behind my land lords house. The building had an entry with a sink and toilet, then a door that led to the Sauna room. The room had a bleacher type seating that could seat perhaps 6 people. There was a faucet for cold water in one corner and the heating source in another, The heating source was unusual to me, I really checked it out. A large wood burning stove with hollow metal tubes filled with water that were attached under the stove and welded onto a hot water tank. The top had been removed and tank filled with water. As the tubes filled with water on the bottom of the stove , heated up, the water inside heated. the tubes leading into the hot water heated and soon the water in them heated to boiling. I have in the years since thought that if I bought a camp, that is how I would heat it. Pipes could be run under the floor for heat and the added humidity from the boiling water in the old hot water heaters would keep the camp warm in sub zero conditions as it did for me back then. This was a 10 by 15 foot area that could be heated to 125 degrees in seconds when a cup of water was poured on the stove. You know the drill for using a sauna. That was 150 square feet, One could be comfortable in a camp or whatever of 400 sq. foot with a stove and 2 topless old hot water heaters------ with a second floor to the camp it is increased to 800 sq footage. What kind of heater you get is important, efficiency and clean burning is everything, Most people who burn wood for heat aim for a 3 cord of wood limit. There is much we can do based on the ways of old. much to learn from the ancients. To this day I will not have an electric can opener in my home, really, just how lazy can one get. regards vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050818/7f9cb941/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 18 20:22:21 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 18 20:22:25 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: On Scientific Research In-Reply-To: <1a6.3d31bc0d.30366ccf@aol.com> from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 18, 2005 06:59:27 PM Message-ID: <20050819032221.39054.qmail@mall-net.com> > The building had an entry with a sink and toilet, then a door that led to > the Sauna room. The room had a bleacher type seating that could seat perhaps 6 > people. There was a faucet for cold water in one corner and the heating > source in another, > > The heating source was unusual to me, I really checked it out. A large wood > burning stove with hollow metal tubes filled with water that were attached > under the stove and welded onto a hot water tank. The top had been removed > and tank filled with water. As the tubes filled with water on the bottom of > the stove , heated up, the water inside heated. the tubes leading into the > hot water heated and soon the water in them heated to boiling. Yes, there are many innovative ways to build things like this. It does, however, take knowing how to work the materials, weld, etc. > That was 150 square feet, One could be comfortable in a camp or whatever > of 400 sq. foot with a stove and 2 topless old hot water heaters------ with > a second floor to the camp it is increased to 800 sq footage. The problem with using this for heating, is that the water condenses on or in the walls, and promotes the growth of mold. If one uses the right woods, this might not be too bad; but using modern materials, it destroys the house as far as habitability is concerned. They don't build them like they use to; but then, they don't build us like they use to. I think that's more to do with evolution -- death rates among children were very high in the old days. Now, virtually everyone survives childhood. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Aug 18 20:38:04 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Thu Aug 18 20:38:07 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 40 In-Reply-To: <4305012E.1030104@swbell.net> from "Tim" at Aug 18, 2005 04:44:14 PM Message-ID: <20050819033804.47595.qmail@mall-net.com> > Reply from Lisa R. Smith: RE: Doctors-Closed minded/Godlike > know-it-all attitudes, squirrely or not, I think most just do the > easiest thing-they are "Apparatchiks" gone GOLEM, i.e. they do not think They are taught not to think. > for themselves past the choice of Mercedes/Lexus automobile paint color > and whether fine leather interior or cloth for the seats. "Standards of > Care" are being pushed by the Big Drug Industries-as medical care > paradigms, this in itself is a problem as NOVEL and USEFUL Therapies > will be discarded in favor of the "same old, same old" disease > MANAGEMENT-NOT CURES that are enormously profitable for Big Pharma, and > how morally/ethically challenged that makes Doctors become. If they dare > to innovate-they have automatically become guilty of malpractice, due to > these supposed "STANDARDS OF CARE." By the way-the malpractice thing is They are scared to death over malpractice, and recognize that they have to toe the line with medical researchers, not do the research themselves. They are technicians, not researchers. Unfortunately... who pays for the research? A lot of it is paid for by the drug companies, or done on equipment donated by the drug companies. And since the brigher students want to work for the drug companies, NOT have to deal with patients every day... They are far more apt to do research supporting the drug companies interests. > way over-hyped! IT is VERY Difficult to win a malpractice case. If Most are settled out of court, paid for by the insurance companies, and there is no record because the doctor and insurance company demands the records be sealed. > Doctors take the time to listen to and care for their patients, they > rarely sue. Most people have an internalized sense of "fair play" and > rarely turn on their Doctors for mistakes, if the Doctors are humble and > honest with them. I ought to know about that-I have a background in RIGHT! > law-practiced as an independent paralegal, and even though those > BONEHEADS messed up repeatedly-I have yet to sue! Not that I have much > respect for them now, and they definitely cringe back from me. THEY WERE > WRONG! AND GOD DO THEY HATE TO KNOW IT. It surprised them that I Most people with the stick-to-it-iveness required to pass medical school have an ego structure at least initially incompatible with accepting they were wrong. And the fear of malpractice makes them insist that they were right so as to discourage suits. > survived after my checking out early after surgery, they had left me on > a table so long that my appendix burst and I was contaminated because of Hospitals, it is written, kill far more than automobiles. You might find some interesting information at http://www.BolenReport.com By the way, Buckthorn Bark was once used to cure appendicitis. > Another friend of mine was left to explode from backed up urine/ full > bag after a RADICAL PROSTATECTOMY. My husband was nearly bled to death > from Heparin overdose-I noticed his lap full of blood when I came to be > with him after double-Angioplasties and I got excited and insisted they > put a halt to the over dose! I have more examples, believe me, I just > don't want to be boring. I felt like printing that LIST out and planting My father always demands to know what they are giving him before he accepts it. They nearly gave him a lethal dose of something at one hospital. He recognized the dose limits. The nurse did not. He demanded a doctor, and the doctor said OOPS! > haven't. But, I do have a book planned called the High Priests of > Pharma. We'll see! LOL! Lisa R. Smith Yes. Remember, Microsoft is learning their obnoxious techniques from the pharmaceutical companies. I might recommend a book, "Medical Mavericks of the Twentieth Century" by Riordan. I am reading volume 3. It's carried by Wholesale Nutrition, http://www.nutri.com/ 1-800-FALCONI -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 07:22:59 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 07:23:10 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] HEALTH WEBLINKS TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE. Message-ID: <20050819142259.98129.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> HEALTH WEBLINKS TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE: 1. http://www.bolenreport.com/ 2. http://www.nutri.com/ 3. http://www.paulingtherapy.com/ 4. http://www.newstarget.com/010761.html 5. http://www.chirocity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1573 6. http://www.naturalcures.com/ Sincerely, Clyde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/d6522a9f/attachment.html From FMoore at POCO.com Fri Aug 19 08:56:29 2005 From: FMoore at POCO.com (Moore, Frank) Date: Fri Aug 19 08:56:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] John Bahcall Message-ID: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C9747014689B8@pzisexch.poco.com> Sad news. John Bahcall died yesterday. :,-( http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050819/ap_on_sc/obit_bahcall He was a very interesting man. Attended a couple of lectures he gave, back in the mid '70s. _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists From mbest at triad.rr.com Fri Aug 19 09:28:43 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Fri Aug 19 09:28:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Truly Mad Science! Message-ID: <008401c5a4db$112556e0$6501a8c0@mikey> Computer characters mugged in virtual crime spree 11:31 18 August 2005 NewScientist.com news service Will Knight A man has been arrested in Japan on suspicion carrying out a virtual mugging spree by using software "bots" to beat up and rob characters in the online computer game Lineage II. The stolen virtual possessions were then exchanged for real cash. The Chinese exchange student was arrested by police in Kagawa prefecture, southern Japan, the Mainichi Daily News reports. Several players had their characters beaten and robbed of valuable virtual objects, which could have included the Earring of Wisdom or the Shield of Nightmare. The items were then fenced through a Japanese auction website, according to NCsoft, which makes Lineage II. The assailant was a character controlled by a software bot, rather than a human player, making it unbeatable. http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7865&print=true From Vesta111 at aol.com Fri Aug 19 12:20:25 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 12:20:41 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" Message-ID: In a message dated 8/16/2005 11:16:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mbest@triad.rr.com writes: _http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510299?src=mp_ (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510299?src=mp) Years ago, in a moment of insanity, I decided to follow a life seeing to the care of our oldest generations. What a mistake that was. I found myself jumping from job to job due to the rules that you do what you are told and no questions. No way I could starve anything or anyone to death or give medication that was given not to benefit the patient but to keep the staff from having to spend one more minute with any one patient than another. I know that if I worked for a doctor and was told that I would have to work with a patient that was going for a partial birth abortion, I would RUN, HIDE. and bang my head against the floor before I decided to run off and live in a cave away from humans that turned my brain to jello. There are some things in this world that people cannot abide, I can most happily hand out the pill to halt pregnancy in the first month or so. After 3 months I get a bit uncomfortable. At 4 months I cannot handle it, I have a grandchild born in the 5th month all 18 ozs. ugly as hell. Kind of reminded me of a frog that had been exposed to pesticides. So, after years of schooling, seeing my family all proud of my life choice, I now have a (CHOICE) of giving up my job and then what ? Or, I can twist and warp my brain to except what is and has all ways been unthinkable. With the changes in society and the advances in medicine I find I am at a loss to figure out what is the ethical, moral and sane way of life. I pray to God for guidance on these issues. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/c0cfa22d/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Fri Aug 19 14:20:06 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 14:20:22 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism Message-ID: In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet standards! (I know, it's MS's G**D***** arrogance, not yours, in setting it up this way so they can break everyting that they don't own! With billions of dollars loss from their virus emabling stupidity, MS machines should be banned from the internet!) Sorry, I have no idea what you are speaking of. How do I set up my mail handler? Didn't know I had one. About the only thing I do with my PC is to search the internet, read or write E-Mail, and sometimes send pictures of family here and there. I am not a teckie. My cell phone is a marvel, it takes pictures, plays games etc. I have no idea what else it does because I only use it for an emergency. In 5 years I used it twice, once for a flat tire on trailer towing my jet skis, and once when power went out to check on my mom. I have a dvd that I do not use unless one of my kids wants to watch a movie and can get the darn thing to work. I had a radio alarm clock for years, then one day a power outage made me late for work, I now have a wind up clock and love it, the ticking is white noise, sleep comes easy. Come to think of it, I do seem to be down rating my teck life style. My microwave is so small now, big enough for a dinner plate, about 1/3 the size of my first one. I threw out the electric knife, don't know what I wanted with that. The food grinder is gone replaced with a plastic job with a manual turn handle. I find a pot of oil on the stove works as well as an expensive Fry Daddy. In the last few minutes I did a quick tour of my home and went looking for the teck stuff that I do not need or use. WoW !!!!! On the wall of my pantry I see 9 plug in cords that go to kitchen stuff, griddles etc. can't remember when I last used any of the appliances the cords go to. All this stuff that uses electricity is nuts. When was the last time you made pancakes with an electric devise? Not just the kitchen, the bathroom is a wild source of electric using thingies. Under the counter I found 4 hair dryers, 6 electric types of hair curlers, 3 face shavers, a tub spa, nail care unit, foot bath, so far I have only hit the tip of the ice burger there are 2 more cabinets to check out. When something is not used, it is useless, so why do people have all the, lets face it Crap? GOOD GREEF as I look around my house not only do I see the tecki stuff but the non-tec things that fill the place like a used junk store. When I moved in here 10 years ago I brought nothing except clothing and family photos. Now I have collected enough for a family of 10 instead of a family of 2. Where did all this stuff come from? I have to admit that books, close to a religious experience for me take up way too much space. Lots of the other stuff comes from my mom who is weeding out family stuff, she is 86 years old and too tired to dust things or polish silver. So I who have no time to dust or polish, jam all that stuff in cardboard boxes and stack them in any room not open to the public. Dear Javilk, I thank you for your question about my mail manager. In a flight of ideas I have ended up thinking of a humongus garage sale. ONE PROBLEM, I am a Yankee, and Yankees never throw ANYTHING out or get rid of it for any reason. This is hard, I have had to loose or give up things in my life and wont you just know it, I had to at sometime or other go out and buy it again. So, I am going to find out about my mail manager, and make a plan to DE-TECK the house. Again, thanks Javilk, sometimes the most innocent statements make big changes in others lives. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/a6a15a31/attachment.html From FMoore at POCO.com Fri Aug 19 14:36:08 2005 From: FMoore at POCO.com (Moore, Frank) Date: Fri Aug 19 14:36:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler Message-ID: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468A90@pzisexch.poco.com> No Problem, Vesta. I think the problem is on his end... not yours. Your e-mails to the ListServer always look fine to me... And I have no problem seeing the passages you have quoted from others. They have a blue line that runs down the left margin. I do notice that they are HTML format, which is fine to me. I prefer e-mail in HTML. Perhaps Javilk has his server set to "Plain Text" only? If the receiving mail server automatically converts HTML to Plain Text, it may jumble things around a bit. But I've only heard on complaint so far. So I wouldn't change what you're comfortable with. :-) Frank F. Moore Project Scientist Poco Graphite, Inc. 300 Old Greenwood Rd. Decatur, TX 76234 Ph: 940-393-4360 Fax: 940-393-8383 FMoore@poco.com ________________________________ From: mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG [mailto:mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG] On Behalf Of Vesta111@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 4:20 PM To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, javilk@mall-net.com writes: I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet standards! (I know, it's MS's G**D***** arrogance, not yours, in setting it up this way so they can break everyting that they don't own! With billions of dollars loss from their virus emabling stupidity, MS machines should be banned from the internet!) Sorry, I have no idea what you are speaking of. How do I set up my mail handler? Didn't know I had one. About the only thing I do with my PC is to search the internet, read or write E-Mail, and sometimes send pictures of family here and there. I am not a teckie. My cell phone is a marvel, it takes pictures, plays games etc. I have no idea what else it does because I only use it for an emergency. In 5 years I used it twice, once for a flat tire on trailer towing my jet skis, and once when power went out to check on my mom. I have a dvd that I do not use unless one of my kids wants to watch a movie and can get the darn thing to work. I had a radio alarm clock for years, then one day a power outage made me late for work, I now have a wind up clock and love it, the ticking is white noise, sleep comes easy. Come to think of it, I do seem to be down rating my teck life style. My microwave is so small now, big enough for a dinner plate, about 1/3 the size of my first one. I threw out the electric knife, don't know what I wanted with that. The food grinder is gone replaced with a plastic job with a manual turn handle. I find a pot of oil on the stove works as well as an expensive Fry Daddy. In the last few minutes I did a quick tour of my home and went looking for the teck stuff that I do not need or use. WoW !!!!! On the wall of my pantry I see 9 plug in cords that go to kitchen stuff, griddles etc. can't remember when I last used any of the appliances the cords go to. All this stuff that uses electricity is nuts. When was the last time you made pancakes with an electric devise? Not just the kitchen, the bathroom is a wild source of electric using thingies. Under the counter I found 4 hair dryers, 6 electric types of hair curlers, 3 face shavers, a tub spa, nail care unit, foot bath, so far I have only hit the tip of the ice burger there are 2 more cabinets to check out. When something is not used, it is useless, so why do people have all the, lets face it Crap? GOOD GREEF as I look around my house not only do I see the tecki stuff but the non-tec things that fill the place like a used junk store. When I moved in here 10 years ago I brought nothing except clothing and family photos. Now I have collected enough for a family of 10 instead of a family of 2. Where did all this stuff come from? I have to admit that books, close to a religious experience for me take up way too much space. Lots of the other stuff comes from my mom who is weeding out family stuff, she is 86 years old and too tired to dust things or polish silver. So I who have no time to dust or polish, jam all that stuff in cardboard boxes and stack them in any room not open to the public. Dear Javilk, I thank you for your question about my mail manager. In a flight of ideas I have ended up thinking of a humongus garage sale. ONE PROBLEM, I am a Yankee, and Yankees never throw ANYTHING out or get rid of it for any reason. This is hard, I have had to loose or give up things in my life and wont you just know it, I had to at sometime or other go out and buy it again. So, I am going to find out about my mail manager, and make a plan to DE-TECK the house. Again, thanks Javilk, sometimes the most innocent statements make big changes in others lives. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/77ff5153/attachment-0001.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Fri Aug 19 15:31:17 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 15:31:33 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler Message-ID: <1f3.10170334.3037b7b5@aol.com> In a message dated 8/19/2005 5:37:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, FMoore@POCO.com writes: But I've only heard on complaint so far. So I wouldn't change what you're comfortable with. :-) Thank you sir, it is not that I am comfortable with the format, it is that this is what AOL gives to me and I have no idea how to change it. I am like the majority of people, we believe, blindly, that when you pay big bucks for something, we will get the best out there. By the way, can you tell me why if I were to wander around the campus of most colleges and ask random students what is the material in a pencil they will answer Lead ? I would not ask in any college in Cal. as the answers could cause insanity in pollsters. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/73cd1caf/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 15:44:42 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 15:45:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Intelligent Design vs Darwinism In-Reply-To: from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 19, 2005 05:20:06 PM Message-ID: <20050819224442.4516.qmail@mall-net.com> Ok, first the obligatory attempt to break windows, then more useful information that you can use. And then we delve into the nature of urban archaeology. > I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet > standards! (I know, it's MS's G**D***** arrogance, not yours, in > setting it up this way so they can break everyting that they don't own! > With billions of dollars loss from their virus emabling stupidity, MS > machines should be banned from the internet!) > > Sorry, I have no idea what you are speaking of. How do I set up my mail > handler? Didn't know I had one. About the only thing I do with my PC is to > search the internet, read or write E-Mail, and sometimes send pictures of family > here and there. Uh... (I'm starting to use a borrowed Windows machine for some work. What a piece of trash that is when compared to Linux!!! It's like a heavy pane of unbreakable glass, the kind with the wires embedded in it, designed to keep me from getting my hands on the guts and DOING anything with the computer!!! Gads, its FRUSTRATING!!! I have to mouse grope for everything, even when I have to do the same damned thing a hundred times!) > I am not a teckie. Most people are not. If they were, Microsloth would have gone bankrupt already. A mail handler, is what you use to handle mail; in our case, what you use to view and reply to e-mail. Many people use Internet Exploder (or Explorer as the non-techs call it.) to view and reply to e-mail. If this is you, then I will make a valiant effort to help you. If, on the other hand, you are using some web based AwOL mailing concoction, then you have my sympathies. even I probably can't figure that one out without tech support on line. This is why some people are considering user interface design a profession. Most modern software designers haven't a clue, aren't given the time to find a clue, and so just charge on making things more and ore complicated. This is why, when I get involved in a project4, I can often cut the code size by a factor of 5 to 50, get things done 5 to 50 times faster, etc. Stoking up my borrowed woundoze machine... I find that I have Ouchlook... Checking your headers, you have some kind of "security edition" something. Ouchlook is crap. Not even my Windows clients use it. Studying the menus, after trying to shoot that damned smirking paperclip... I find my self feeling like an idiot staring at all these options which do nothing that I want to do! No wonder I prefer Linux! I am sorry, but this computer expert is at a loss for the complexity and un-usability of ouchlook! For starters, the bright white screen fatigues my eyeballs; which is why I always use my mail handlers with green or yellow letters on black background. The solution to glare, is not more glare! It is a proper environment. IBM studied the issue back in the 60's, and decided to produce black screens with relaxing green fonts. Glare and white screens have been shown by researchers to increase muscle tension some 20% or more. Windoze is a pain, and Ouchlook is just frustrating. I do not have the manuals, so I am afraid I can't help you. I would suggest a decent Linux version might be more flexible. But then, I don't do what you do, and I guess you don't do what I do, so your needs may differ. > My cell phone is a marvel, it takes pictures, plays games etc. I have no > idea what else it does because I only use it for an emergency. In 5 years I > used it twice, once for a flat tire on trailer towing my jet skis, and once when > power went out to check on my mom. They now have cell-phones for people like you. Marvels of simplicity with no camera or video games, an extra-large keyboard and larger display, and dedicated volume control. Advertised in Good Housekeeping magazine yet. Most techno wiz cellphone sales geeks consider it a dull and dumb device no one should ever buy, so they push their featureful monstrosities on everyone. Why would anyone use it, when you can get video games, ring tones, text messaging, twelve flavors of polygyrtotronic thormagage, mono-clastic phytology, 16 colorful skins, an event schedular, and a foot thick manual you have to study to make use of any of the features, as they all interact in such a wonderful synergastric manner that no one with less than a triple PhD or over the age of ten can ever use them? As for me, I say that if you can't wait for me to call you back when I return, I can't help you because the things I work on take six months to do. So I don't bother with cell phones or pagers. (Actually, there are times when the cell-phone frequencies cause me pain. Doc says this may be due to some kind of resonance of certain molecules. Other research suggests blood cells may clump as something about the frequencies causes a major change in the surface charge of cells. Whatever. I keep a cell phone and charged, disconnected battery in the car just in case I break down. Never used it!) > I have a dvd that I do not use unless one of my kids wants to watch a movie > and can get the darn thing to work. > > I had a radio alarm clock for years, then one day a power outage made me > late for work, I now have a wind up clock and love it, the ticking is white > noise, sleep comes easy. Yes. Some things are just SIMPLER! And more prone to actually WORK under adverse circumstances. > Come to think of it, I do seem to be down rating my teck life style. My > microwave is so small now, big enough for a dinner plate, about 1/3 the size > of my first one. I threw out the electric knife, don't know what I wanted with > that. The food grinder is gone replaced with a plastic job with a manual > turn handle. I find a pot of oil on the stove works as well as an expensive Fry > Daddy. Amazing, isn't it? I often wonder how much brain power these users dedicate to memorizing their manuals, when a little common sense is cheaper, better, easier, AND TAKES UP LESS SPACE!!! (I mean, you're not supposed to throw the boxes out so you can send the things back when they break under warranty... so everything is double the size, and soon the storage locker costs more than buying it new every year...) > In the last few minutes I did a quick tour of my home and went looking for > the teck stuff that I do not need or use. WoW !!!!! On the wall of my > pantry I see 9 plug in cords that go to kitchen stuff, griddles etc. can't > remember when I last used any of the appliances the cords go to. All this > stuff that uses electricity is nuts. When was the last time you made pancakes > with an electric devise? Oh, I once had to prepare for an apartment inspection. I had something like 50 plus power cords to computers, monitors, scanners, routers, and what have you. But unlike useless appliances, these were making money for me. > Not just the kitchen, the bathroom is a wild source of electric using > thingies. Under the counter I found 4 hair dryers, 6 electric types of hair > curlers, 3 face shavers, a tub spa, nail care unit, foot bath, so far I have only > hit the tip of the ice burger there are 2 more cabinets to check out. Gee, you must be on the power grid! I rented some space in a warehouse for my computers. Up here, my bathroom consists of a bath tub salvaged from a trailer, and a seat on a bucket with a box of plastic bags and roll of toilet paper. I must admit to using an electric "sonic" toothbrush on doctor's suggestions, but other than that, I have none of the space and power consumers you mention. No need for them. I am living in an 8x 16 cabin. The most space consuming things I own, as a category, are my books. > When something is not used, it is useless, so why do people have all the, > lets face it Crap? I have no idea. I suspect they don't think about the amount of time and space these devices consume. > GOOD GREEF as I look around my house not only do I see the tecki stuff but > the non-tec things that fill the place like a used junk store. I joke that I move often to keep the junk from multiplying. But some of it has been known to follow me from place to place. It was most amusing that a computer system I gave away came back via another friend. It was a chocolate colored magnesium case GRiD portable with an orange plasma screen. Seen in the back of a van after a few beers, it positively reeked "Military!" He bought it, thinking we could get a huge reward for turning it back in to the folks at some secret military lab it must have come from. Ah... when I showed him it was an obsolete 386... running DOS and had MY software on it, he said "take it, just take it!" And it was back home with me again. Sad I can't get that thing loaded up with an old version of Linux and an Ethernet card of some sort... Pre LAN, pre USB, pre PCMCIA even. I'm not as bad as a friend who tossed three of the maximum size dumpsters of accumulations when he moved to a rest home. He and a friend dove the dumpster at the last apartment complex I moved from. > When I moved in here 10 years ago I brought nothing except clothing and > family photos. Now I have collected enough for a family of 10 instead of a family > of 2. We do tend to collect, don't we? I think it is a human trait. > Where did all this stuff come from? I have to admit that books, close to a > religious experience for me take up way too much space. Lots of the other > stuff comes from my mom who is weeding out family stuff, she is 86 years old and > too tired to dust things or polish silver. So I who have no time to dust or > polish, jam all that stuff in cardboard boxes and stack them in any room not > open to the public. I use to live that way... and move often in effort not to. > Dear Javilk, I thank you for your question about my mail manager. In a > flight of ideas I have ended up thinking of a humongus garage sale. Most welcome! Part of the reason for this list, is to inspire each other in ways unexpected. > ONE PROBLEM, I am a Yankee, and Yankees never throw ANYTHING out or > get rid of it for any reason. This is hard, I have had to loose or give > up things in my life and wont you just know it, I had to at sometime or other > go out and buy it again. I think that trait is not limited to New Englanders. My parents came from overseas, and, well... I fear my mother's collection of used paper bags and boxes. At least I know my father's junk has usable parts... even if only for other antique electronics dealers. When TVs changed, we decided to dump the old TVs my father had been keeping for parts. I forget how many there were, but as the town's trash trucks kept coming by, we had another three, and another three, and nother three, and another three out there. I know it was over 12, probably no more than 21. I think it sad that we threw out an early round screen TV; but it no longer had a case and had some parts missing. When I was in college, I helped my genius friend clean his basement, we moved some 21+ TV sets to the dump. He currently owns two homes, one of which is loaded to the gills with electronics, mostly obsolete industrial and lab equipment. He's been trying to clean that out for some five or ten years now, in hopes of selling or renting it out. Not much success as space in his new home, some four times larger, has already become limited for various projects and accumulations. His wife is an Engineer. She suffers the same infirmity. For them, everything can be fixed, it's just a matter of finding the need and time to do so. Meanwhile, the stuff is useful as a source of parts to borrow for some other project. They work at home, so these things do have some limited use. > So, I am going to find out about my mail manager, and make a plan to DE-TECK > the house. > > Again, thanks Javilk, sometimes the most innocent statements make big > changes in others lives. Most welcome! (And we haven't even begun to look at cleaning up the clutter on the hard drive...) -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 15:45:28 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 15:45:32 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Darwinism of the Appliances In-Reply-To: from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 19, 2005 05:20:06 PM Message-ID: <20050819224528.4798.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > --===============0029762417== > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="-----------------------------1124486406" > > > -------------------------------1124486406 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > javilk@mall-net.com writes: > > I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet > standards! (I know, it's MS's G**D***** arrogance, not yours, in > setting it up this way so they can break everyting that they don't own! > With billions of dollars loss from their virus emabling stupidity, MS > machines should be banned from the internet!) > > > > Sorry, I have no idea what you are speaking of. How do I set up my mail > handler? Didn't know I had one. About the only thing I do with my PC is to > search the internet, read or write E-Mail, and sometimes send pictures of family > here and there. > > I am not a teckie. > > My cell phone is a marvel, it takes pictures, plays games etc. I have no > idea what else it does because I only use it for an emergency. In 5 years I > used it twice, once for a flat tire on trailer towing my jet skis, and once when > power went out to check on my mom. > > I have a dvd that I do not use unless one of my kids wants to watch a movie > and can get the darn thing to work. > > I had a radio alarm clock for years, then one day a power outage made me > late for work, I now have a wind up clock and love it, the ticking is white > noise, sleep comes easy. > > Come to think of it, I do seem to be down rating my teck life style. My > microwave is so small now, big enough for a dinner plate, about 1/3 the size > of my first one. I threw out the electric knife, don't know what I wanted with > that. The food grinder is gone replaced with a plastic job with a manual > turn handle. I find a pot of oil on the stove works as well as an expensive Fry > Daddy. > > In the last few minutes I did a quick tour of my home and went looking for > the teck stuff that I do not need or use. WoW !!!!! On the wall of my > pantry I see 9 plug in cords that go to kitchen stuff, griddles etc. can't > remember when I last used any of the appliances the cords go to. All this > stuff that uses electricity is nuts. When was the last time you made pancakes > with an electric devise? > > Not just the kitchen, the bathroom is a wild source of electric using > thingies. Under the counter I found 4 hair dryers, 6 electric types of hair > curlers, 3 face shavers, a tub spa, nail care unit, foot bath, so far I have only > hit the tip of the ice burger there are 2 more cabinets to check out. > > When something is not used, it is useless, so why do people have all the, > lets face it Crap? > GOOD GREEF as I look around my house not only do I see the tecki stuff but > the non-tec things that fill the place like a used junk store. > > When I moved in here 10 years ago I brought nothing except clothing and > family photos. Now I have collected enough for a family of 10 instead of a family > of 2. > > Where did all this stuff come from? I have to admit that books, close to a > religious experience for me take up way too much space. Lots of the other > stuff comes from my mom who is weeding out family stuff, she is 86 years old and > too tired to dust things or polish silver. So I who have no time to dust or > polish, jam all that stuff in cardboard boxes and stack them in any room not > open to the public. > > Dear Javilk, I thank you for your question about my mail manager. In a > flight of ideas I have ended up thinking of a humongus garage sale. > > ONE PROBLEM, I am a Yankee, and Yankees never throw ANYTHING out or > get rid of it for any reason. This is hard, I have had to loose or give > up things in my life and wont you just know it, I had to at sometime or other > go out and buy it again. > > So, I am going to find out about my mail manager, and make a plan to DE-TECK > the house. > > Again, thanks Javilk, sometimes the most innocent statements make big > changes in others lives. > Regards Vesta > No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And > those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." > > > -------------------------------1124486406 > Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > > > > > Arial"=20 > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7> e_document=20 > face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2> >
>
>
In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 > javilk@mall-net.com writes:
> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><= > FONT=20 > style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= > =3D2> =20 >   I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet=20 >
standards!  (I know, it's MS's G**D***** arrogance, not yours, in= > =20 >
setting it up this way so they can break everyting that they don't own= > !=20 >
With billions of dollars loss from their virus emabling stupidity, MS=20 >
machines should be banned from the internet!)
<= > /DIV> >
Sorry, I have no idea what you are speaking of. How do I set up m= > y=20 > mail handler?  Didn't know I had one.   About the only thing=20= > I do=20 > with my PC is to search the internet, read or write E-Mail, and sometimes se= > nd=20 > pictures of family here and there. 
>
      
>
    I am not a teckie.
>
 
>
 My cell phone is a marvel, it takes pictures, plays games etc. I=20= > have=20 > no idea what else it does because I only use it for an emergency. In 5=20 > years I used it twice, once for a flat tire on trailer towing my jet=20 > skis, and once when power went out to check on my mom.  > >
 
>
I have a dvd that I do not use unless one of my kids  wants to wat= > ch a=20 > movie and can get the darn thing to work.   
>
PTSIZE=3D"10">     
>
>I had a radio=20 > alarm clock for years, then one day a power outage made me late for work, I=20= > now=20 > have a wind up clock and love it, the ticking is white noise, sleep comes=20 > easy.
>
  
>
 Come to think of it, I do seem to be down rating my teck life=20 > style.   My microwave is so small now, big enough for a dinner pla= > te,=20 > about 1/3 the size of my first one. I threw out the electric knife, don't kn= > ow=20 > what I wanted with that. The food grinder is gone replaced with a plastic jo= > b=20 > with a manual turn handle. I find a pot of oil on the stove works as well as= > an=20 > expensive Fry Daddy. 
>
 
>
In the last few minutes I did a quick tour of my home and went looking=20= > for=20 > the teck stuff that I do not need or use.    WoW=20 > !!!!!       On the wall of my pantry I see 9 p= > lug=20 > in cords that go to kitchen stuff, griddles etc. can't remember when I=20= > last=20 > used any of the appliances the cords go to.   All this stuff that=20= > uses=20 > electricity is nuts. When was the last time you made pancakes  wit= > h an=20 > electric devise? 
>
 
>
Not just the kitchen, the bathroom is a wild source of electric using=20 > thingies.  Under the counter I found 4 hair dryers, 6 electric types of= > =20 > hair curlers, 3 face shavers, a tub spa, nail care unit, foot bath, so far I= > =20 > have only hit the tip of the ice burger there are 2 more cabinets to check=20 > out.
>
 
>
When something is not used, it is useless, so why do people have all th= > e,=20 > lets face it Crap?
>
GOOD GREEF  as I look around my house not only do I see the tecki=20 > stuff but the non-tec things that fill the place like a used junk=20 > store.  
>
 
>
When I moved in here 10 years ago I brought nothing except clothing and= > =20 > family photos. Now I have collected enough for a family of 10 instead of a=20 > family of 2. 
>
 
>
Where did all this stuff come from?  I have to admit that books, c= > lose=20 > to a religious experience for me take up way too much space. Lots of the oth= > er=20 > stuff comes from my mom who is weeding out family stuff, she is 86 years old= > and=20 > too tired to dust things or polish silver.  So I who have no time to du= > st=20 > or polish, jam all that stuff in cardboard boxes and stack them in any room=20= > not=20 > open to the public.
>
PTSIZE=3D"10"> 
>
>Dear Javilk,=20 > I thank you for your question about my mail manager.  In a flight of id= > eas=20 > I have ended up thinking of a humongus garage sale.   > >
 
>
ONE  PROBLEM,      I am a Yankee, and Yan= > kees=20 > never throw ANYTHING out or get rid of it for any=20 > reason.      This is hard, I have had to loose or g= > ive=20 > up things in my life and wont you just know it, I had to at sometime or othe= > r go=20 > out and buy it again.
>
 
>
So, I am going to find out about my mail manager, and make a plan to=20 > DE-TECK  the house.
>
 
>
      Again, thanks Javilk, sometimes the most= > =20 > innocent statements make big changes in others lives.
>
            = > ;            &nb= > sp;=20 > Regards     Vesta
>
>No man=20 > survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who= > cry=20 > 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please."=20 >
 
> > -------------------------------1124486406-- > > --===============0029762417== > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Disposition: inline > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > --===============0029762417==-- > From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 15:46:24 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 15:46:27 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Darwinism of the Appliances In-Reply-To: <20050819224528.4798.qmail@mall-net.com> from "javilk@mall-net.com" at Aug 19, 2005 10:45:28 PM Message-ID: <20050819224624.5090.qmail@mall-net.com> Sorry, my fingers fumbledd from laughing as I tried to change the title. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From rhjuliano at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 16:47:39 2005 From: rhjuliano at yahoo.com (Robert Juliano) Date: Fri Aug 19 16:48:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050819234739.99951.qmail@web51912.mail.yahoo.com> Vesta, I wish I could give a simple answer, but I don't think there is one for this topic. the problem of a pharmacist refusing to issue copntraceptives/abortificant medication due to personal beliefs brings up some thorny questions. does he own the shop? is it the only shop in town? would selling a morning after pill in the first have prevented a surgical abortion? would the morning after pill have prevented yet another child going through the foster/welfare/child-services machine? is it right (whatever that means) to require a woman to bring a fetus to term against the woman's will? I don't have any good answers to these, as I dropped out of the christian faith about 25 years ago (tho' people tell me I'm one of the more christian people they know... strange world.) --- Vesta111@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 8/16/2005 11:16:29 P.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > mbest@triad.rr.com writes: > > _http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510299?src=mp_ > (http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/510299?src=mp) > > > Years ago, in a moment of insanity, I decided to > follow a life seeing to the > care of our oldest generations. What a > mistake that was. I found > myself jumping from job to job due to the rules that > you do what you are told > and no questions. > > No way I could starve anything or anyone to > death or give medication that > was given not to benefit the patient but to keep > the staff from having to > spend one more minute with any one patient than > another. > > I know that if I worked for a doctor and was told > that I would have to work > with a patient that was going for a partial birth > abortion, I would RUN, > HIDE. and bang my head against the floor before I > decided to run off and live in > a cave away from humans that turned my brain to > jello. > > There are some things in this world that people > cannot abide, I can most > happily hand out the pill to halt pregnancy in the > first month or so. After 3 > months I get a bit uncomfortable. At 4 months I > cannot handle it, I have a > grandchild born in the 5th month all 18 ozs. ugly > as hell. Kind of reminded > me of a frog that had been exposed to pesticides. > > So, after years of schooling, seeing my family all > proud of my life choice, > I now have a (CHOICE) of giving up my job and then > what ? Or, I can twist > and warp my brain to except what is and has all > ways been unthinkable. > > With the changes in society and the advances in > medicine I find I am at a > loss to figure out what is the ethical, moral and > sane way of life. I pray to > God for guidance on these issues. > > Regards Vesta > > > > > > > > > > > No man survives when freedom fails, The best men > rot in filthy jails, And > those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by > those they tried to please." > > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 17:17:57 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 17:17:59 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler In-Reply-To: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468A90@pzisexch.poco.com> from "Moore, Frank" at Aug 19, 2005 04:36:08 PM Message-ID: <20050820001757.64556.qmail@mall-net.com> > I think the problem is on his end... not yours. Your e-mails to the > ListServer always look fine to me... And I have no problem seeing the > passages you have quoted from others. They have a blue line that runs > down the left margin. I do notice that they are HTML format, which is > fine to me. I prefer e-mail in HTML. Perhaps Javilk has his server set > to "Plain Text" only? If the receiving mail server automatically > converts HTML to Plain Text, it may jumble things around a bit. All the lists I've used over the last 12 years blocked HTML mail. That includes the web consultant's list, folks who write in HTML for a living. Why? Use to be just because it was excessive; now it's another way of getting viruses. So yes, this computer geek and webmaster does not have HTML mail enabled. Indeed, I am using a mail handler that is incapable of hanling HTML, atchooments etc. And with that, I've not caught any viruses. Ever. (Though it helps that I'm running Linux.) Plus, not all devices out there handle HTML Mail. Of those that do, not everyone enables it for security reasons. And since almost all spam these days is HTML mail, many filter on that! Since I have been getting several hundred spams per hour (and blocking most of them), I usually handle my e-mail on the server without downloading to my machine. As do many with similar situations. That means a simple mail handler which does not do HTML. This is the only HTML Mail source that I allow through my mail filter. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 18:13:44 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 18:14:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" In-Reply-To: <20050819234739.99951.qmail@web51912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050820011344.97195.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> THE PHUCKING PHARMAPSUEDO'S BETTER FUCKING BE CAREFUL. THEY ARE WALKING ON EGGSHELLS WITH PEOPLE LIKE ME; AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY OTHERS OUT THERE WHO FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ALL OF THE CORRUPTION. PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE PISSED AT ALL OF THE PHRAUDULENT PHARMAPSUEDO SHIT THAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES. DO WE THE PEOPLE STILL HAVE THE TEAMWORK FIGHTING BACK POWER, TO FIGHT ALL OF THE GOD DAMNED FUCKERS LIKE MERK? CERTAIN PLACES IN THE PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX NEED TO BE BOMBED STRATEGICALLY. AND IT ISN'T MY WILL TO BE A TERRORIST. VITAMINS AND MINERAL MAY NOT BE THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION(S), BUT WHEN WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE **OUR** POWER CONTROL, OVER THE FUCKERS AT THE PHARMACOLOGY DICTATORSHIP HEADQUARTERS; THE F.D.A. (THE FUCKED UP FOOD AND DRUG ADDICTION ASSOCIATION.). CLYDE Robert Juliano wrote: Vesta, I wish I could give a simple answer, but I don't think there is one for this topic. the problem of a pharmacist refusing to issue copntraceptives/abortificant medication due to personal beliefs brings up some thorny questions. does he own the shop? is it the only shop in town? would selling a morning after pill in the first have prevented a surgical abortion? would the morning after pill have prevented yet another child going through the foster/welfare/child-services machine? is it right (whatever that means) to require a woman to bring a fetus to term against the woman's will? I don't have any good answers to these, as I dropped out of the christian faith about 25 years ago (tho' people tell me I'm one of the more christian people they know... strange world.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/11ad50ec/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 18:37:06 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 18:37:10 2005 Subject: REVISED: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" In-Reply-To: <20050819234739.99951.qmail@web51912.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050820013706.54762.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> REVISED; (PLEASE DISREGARD THE FIRST SEND): THE PHUCKING PHARMAPSUEDO'S BETTER FUCKING BE CAREFUL. THEY ARE WALKING ON EGGSHELLS WITH PEOPLE LIKE ME; AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY OTHERS OUT THERE WHO FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ALL OF THE CORRUPTION. PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE PISSED AT ALL OF THE PHRAUDULENT PHARMAPSUEDO SHIT THAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES. DO WE THE PEOPLE STILL HAVE THE TEAMWORK FIGHTING BACK POWER, TO FIGHT ALL OF THE GOD DAMNED FUCKERS LIKE MERK? CERTAIN PLACES IN THE PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX NEED TO BE BOMBED STRATEGICALLY. AND IT ISN'T MY WILL TO BE A TERRORIST. VITAMINS AND MINERALS MAY NOT BE THE ULTIMATE SOLUTION(S), BUT WHEN WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE **OUR** POWER CONTROL, OVER THE FUCKERS AT THE PHARMACOLOGY DICTATORSHIP HEADQUARTERS: THE F.D.A. (THE FUCKED UP FOOD AND DRUG ADDICTION ASSOCIATION-ADMINISTRATION.), WHAT THE HELL DO WE DO? CLYDE Robert Juliano wrote: Vesta, I wish I could give a simple answer, but I don't think there is one for this topic. the problem of a pharmacist refusing to issue copntraceptives/abortificant medication due to personal beliefs brings up some thorny questions. does he own the shop? is it the only shop in town? would selling a morning after pill in the first have prevented a surgical abortion? would the morning after pill have prevented yet another child going through the foster/welfare/child-services machine? is it right (whatever that means) to require a woman to bring a fetus to term against the woman's will? I don't have any good answers to these, as I dropped out of the christian faith about 25 years ago (tho' people tell me I'm one of the more christian people they know... strange world.) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/41fbf1b0/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 18:56:25 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 18:56:30 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] THE COMMERCIALISM OF PHARMACOLOGY. Message-ID: <20050820015625.30179.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> THE COMMERCIALISM OF PHARMACOLOGY: THE COMMERCIALISM OF PHARMACOLOGY AIDS AND ABETTS THE SUPPRESSION OF VITAMIN ORTHOMOLECULAR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY. COPYRIGHT (C) 2005, BY: CLYDE LOFTON --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/f722ef68/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 19:19:46 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 19:19:53 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050817062706.52101.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050820021946.34901.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > Hypertension, heart disease, sleeping problems, post traumatic stress syndrome, short fuse, flash backs, etc. > I AM SHELL SHOCKED BY REALITY; HYPERTENSION STRESS; POST TRAUMATIC STRESS; INSOMNIA FROM HELL; NUCLEAR BLAST-SHORT FUSE PERFECTIONISM TROUBLES; AND RACING THOUGHTS. Post traumatic stress disorder is characterized by slow brain wave forms and low body temperature with some adrenaline spikes. That sounds more like the opposite of your symtomology. I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN. But you could look into EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy. I PROBABLY WON'T HAVE THE TIME TO RESEARCH INTO THAT SUBJECT MATERIAL. > MY FATHER AND MY FATHER'S FATHER, BOTH DIED, FROM HEART ATTACK. > IT IS MY WILL NOT FOLLOW THEIR SAME PATHS. > IT IS MY WILL TO BE BOTH A SURIVIOR, AND TO TRANSCEND ALL OF THEIR BULLSHIT, IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR ME TO DO. The most important thing is that you are trying! So keep trying and you will likely find some things to make life better. I'M TRYING. It really does not matter how they died; what matters is that you don't give up, or you will have effectively followed their paths a lot younger! I WANT TO BLAST BOTH MY DAD, AND MY GRANDFATHER, BUT MAYBE THAT IS THE WRONG WAY TO THINK. I FEEL REVENGE IN MY HEART, BUT THE FEELINGS OF REVENGE ARE ONLY TEARING ME UP INSIDE. > THAT IS WHY I NEED TO COMPLETE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT, AND TO SLOW MY RACING HYPER VELOCITY THOUGHT PATTERNS, WAY WAY DOWN, TO ALPHA SERENITY; AND TO USE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. Alpha numbs the mind. I think Theta would be more appropriate, IF 7.83 C.P.S. (CYCLES PER SECOND) IS ALPHA, THEN AT WHAT FREQUENCY DOES THE THETA RANGE BEGIN, AND AT WHAT FREQUENCY DOES THETA RANGE END??? 7.83hz. Works for me. See Anna Wise, "The High Performance Mind; and Hutchinson "Mega Brain Power" and any subsequent books he may have written. He did have a newsletter at one point. > I ALSO NEED 24/7 ACCESS TO CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE THERAPY TECHNOLOGY TOO. > > http://www.chirocity.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1573 Interesting. I wonder if it's that hard to build something like this. I'D HAVE TO HAVE QUITE AN AMOUNT OF MONEY, TO REPLICATE A TECHNOLOGY OF THIS TYPE. > INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY NEEDS TO BE FURTHER MASS PRODUCED, FOR ALL OF US EQUALLY, AND WITH QUALITY HERE IN THE STATES, NOT IN COMMUNIST CRAP WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT GARBAGE CHINA. > Well, the choice is whether you can afford it or not. $500 from China, or $3000 from the USA. I CHOOSE $3000.00, FROM THE U.S.A., BECAUSE I HAVE ZERO LOVE FOR CHINESE GARBAGE. FUCK CHINA! > MY THOUGHTS; ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT TECHNOLOGY, AND INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGIES ARE TESLA TECHNOLOGIES; OR; MAYBE MORE ACCURATELY; THERAPY TECHNOLOGIES THAT TESLA WORKED TOWARD THE FUTURE OF. > Different people need different things. > THE U.S., AND OUR ALLIES NEED REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGIES, MASS PRODUCED, ON A GRAND SCALE, HERE IN THE STATES, AT WORLD WAR TWO WAR MACHINE SPEED, ON A GRAND COOPERATIVE EFFORT FOR US ALL. I doubt many people would use it. Just because it is something that helps you, does not mean that others will find it as pleasant or as useful as you would. I DON'T KNOW. I THINK THAT MASSES OF PEOPLE WOULD BECOME ADDICTED, IF RESONANT REJUVENATION THERAPY WERE MASS PRODUCED, AT WORLD WAR TWO AMERICAN WAR MACHINE SPEED. > Yep. To us who have Invested our lives in America, tomorrow > matters. America opend her gates to us, housed us, fed us, clothed us, > gave us lives. We owe her our Lives! And so, Father and Son willing to > defend her with our lives. > > AMERICA IS STILL A GOOD COUNTRY, BUT FROM MY LOWER MIDDLE CLASS PERSPECTIVE; IT IS ALSO VERY FUCKED UP, FROM MY ABUSED CHILDHOOD PERSPECTIVE, AS WELL. (Chuckle) You have no idea how bad some other countries are! Why do you think so many try to enter America? I'VE SEEN THE GOOD SIDE OF AMERICA JUST AS EQUALLY AS THE BAD SIDE OF AMERICA. > I WANT AMERICA TO BE AMERICA AGAIN! It's always been America, only different. > NOT THIS FUCKING WARZONE BETWEEN THE FUCKING COMMUNIST LIBERALS, AND THE FUCKING FASCIST CONSERVATIVES. The extremes are, of course, extreme. But there is a lot in the middle. More in the middle than near the edges. YEAH, AND THERE IS ALSO VERY MUCH HORSESHIT BULLSHIT NONSENSE DISINFOMATION IN THE MIDDLE TOO, AS EQUALLY AS AT THE EDGES. > IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL WAS NOT SUCH A GOOD THING TO HAPPEN FOR ANY OF US. Any change brings good and bad. I think the fall of the Communists was a very good thing for the USA, and for the world. However... we appear to have not taken the best steps after it. THAT IS RIGHT; WE HAVEN'T TAKEN THE BEST STEPS TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE. BUT FUCK COMMUNISM, AND FUCK FASCISM! Also, we paid a very high price for our cold war efforts; but we did not appreciate what those efforts did for our technology. The cold war started resulting in our national highway system, space exploration, better weather forecasts (saving tens of thousands of lives each year), computer technology (Von Neumann, Grace Hopper, et al developing the first real computers.), Integrated circuits, and a host of other things which we take for granted. If it had not been for the cold war, there would not have been any rush for any of this! DO WE ALL NEED A HOT WAR THEN NOW???; ( NUCLEAR WARS IN VARIOUS PLACES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD,) TO FURTHER THIS FUCKING STAGNANT COUNTRY ALONG, INSTEAD OF IT BEING STUCK IN THE SLUM SLUMP THAT IT IS PRESENTLY IN; AT LEAST THE WAY THAT TECHNICAL ANTI PROGRESSION IS, IN THIS SLUMBURB OF TULSA OKLAHOMA WHERE I AM CURRENTLY FORCED TO HAVE LIVE, AND TO PUT UP WITH THE CEASELESS SENSELESS BULLSHIT??? > HEALTH, WEALTH, AND HAPPINESS ARE FLEETING GLIMPSES OF THINGS THAT I NEED, BUT THAT I CANNOT HAVE. Welcome to the club called "Life". YEAH; LIFE IN QUOTATION MARKS! MANY TIMES LIFE TENDS TO BE ANTI LIFE. > DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. > DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SOME CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, IN A SUFFICIENT DOSAGE, TO CALL IT QUITS, ON ENDLESS GO NO WHERE, AND ENDLESS PAIN, SUFFERING AND MISERY?? Do you want to lose? Or to win? IT IS MY WILL TO BE A SURVIVOR, AND A WINNER. If you quit, all is lost. Just like when your father died. > DO ANY MAD SCIENTISTS DELIBERATELY END THEIR LIVES FROM FRUSTRATION AND BROKEN HEARTEDNESS? People do it for any number of reasons. But so what! You are still young, there is still a lot of potential which you can reach. I DO WONDER IF I MAY HAVE A SLIM CHANCE TO RECEIVE A MONEY GRANT FROM THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY, IN FORT COLLINS AND BOULDER COLORADO, FOR THE TALKING CLOCK PROJECT THAT I WANT DONE: AND I WANT IT DONE IN AMERICA TOO; NOT IN SHIT TURD WORLD COUNTRY CHINA. All the really good scientists overcame difficulties ranging from lack of cash, CASH. I NEED A GOOD MENTOR IN MY LIFE, WHO IS FINACIALLY SUCCESSFUL IN THE RIGHT TYPE OF BUSINESS/ES. to bad Igors screwing up their experiments BAD IGORS: I WONDER IF I CAN PUT MY BIMBO DUMBASS MOM INTO THE CATEGORY OF AN IGOR, SINCE SHE RUINED MY LOTUS SEEDLING THAT WAS SUCCESSFULLY GROWING. because they thought the experiments went against God! > I AM SICK OF THE ENVIRONMENT OF TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA. > THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE ARE SICK, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED BECAUSE OF THEM. Clyde, the prison is in your mind, Not Oklahoma. NOT NECESSARILY; I WENT TO THE GREEN DAY CONCERT, YESTERDAY NIGHT, IN OKLAHOMA SHITTY, AND AGREE WITH POLITICAL VIEWS THAT THEY ARE CURRENTLY CONVEYING: AMERICAN IDIOCY. If it's in your mind, you can change it. MONEY AND ANTIMONEY; ALL IN MY MIND??? IF SO, HOW CAN I BRING FINANCIAL SUCCESS INTO MY LIFE, AND KEEP IT??? Go take a dish of water, drop some light machine oil on it, and look for the rainbow in shallow-angle light. See how pretty it is? You can find some of that type of thing in the real world, and a lot of other things. Flowers growing by the sidewalks, and sometimes through them, cloud formations, etc. Go to photoblogs.com and browse through some of the more interesting photographs, looking at color, composition, etc. There are thousands of photos there, don't get hung up on any one artist who might be having a bad week in some city. There are beautiful nature photos there! Something about Durham County is particularly good. DURHAM COUNTY PHOTO BLOG??? There is beauty all around you, Clyde. You just have to look for it so that your mind can begin to recognize it. You've been in a pressure cooker too long. DAMN STRAIGHT ABOUT THE PRESSURE COOKER! You need to do a little wandering through some photos, and through some empty lots, looking at wildflowers, insects, etc. I WAS HOPING THAT I MIGHT FIND LOTUS FLOWERS GROWING HERE IN TULSA, BUT ALL THAT WOODWARD PARK AND THE TULSA GARDEN CENTER CLUB HAVE, ARE WATER NYMPH-WATER LILLIES. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN WATER LILIES. I WANT TRUE NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWERS, AND I'D LIKE TO DO MY OWN PHOTAGRAPHY OF THEM TOO, IS POSSIBLE FOR ME. That's what rejuvenation the mind. I NEED REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGY,,,, BADLY! 1. ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT. 2. INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY. 3. (NELUMBO NUCIFERA) LOTUS FLOWERS, TO GROW, TO PHOTOGRAPH, AND TO EAT. I used to study till my mind went blank, then wander outside in the evening, letting it decide what was beautiful. Lights reflecting from water, sunset colors, flowers, etc. Life is full of beauty! I AGREE; LIFE IS FULL OF BEAUTY. BUT LIFE IS ALSO FULL OF UGLY, EQUALLY AS WELL. I SEE REALITY IN A DUALITY PERSPECTIVE; AND I DON'T LIKE THAT. You just have to look for it. And when you do, you will see that there is beauty in yourself, too. The way you create things, the questions you sometimes ask... many things you do inspire others. YEAH, I HAVE INSPIRED OTHERS, AND THAT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD, BUT IN THE END, IT ALWAYS SEEMS THAT I FAIL, AND THINGS THAT I DO, TURN OUT IN VAIN. BUT NOT ALWAYS THOUGH! (I mean, just look at what you say here. You inspire me to tell you life is better than you think; and that inspires others. I kind of hope you will get better and inspire others directly, though that does take time.) I HOPE THAT THE MASSIVE LISTS OF WEBLINKS THAT I HAVE SHARED,HAVE HELPED, AND HOPE THAT THEY HAVE INSPIRED OTHERS TOO. I WORKED REALLY HARD THE OTHER DAY, TO FURTHER ALONG MY SIXTH LIST OF REMINDER WEBLINKS, BUT I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT I'M READY ENOUGH YET, AT THIS TIME, TO SHARE THEM WITH OTHERS YET, AS THERE ARE MANY OTHER WEBSITES THAT I'D STILL LIKE TO INCLUDE, AND IT WEARS ME OUT, HAVING TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE WEBLINKS, JUST TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THEY ARE EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO OTHERS. IT IS A BIG ENERGY DRAINER FOR ME TO SPEND ALL OF THE TIME, COMPILING ALL OF THOSE WEBLINKS TOGETHER, INTO ONE, COMPLETE, GARGANTUAN WHOLE. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/c439b079/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 19:23:17 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 19:23:24 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] A NEW SAYING, BY DR. MICHAEL SAVAGE. Message-ID: <20050820022318.9809.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> RADIO TALK SHOW HOST; DR. MICHAEL SAVAGE SAYS THAT LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER. WELL; THAT IS PARTIALLY TRUE. LIBERALISM AND CONSERVATIVISM ARE BOTH, EQUALLY, **ENVIRON-MENTAL** DISORDERS! CLYDE LOFTON __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/02f27766/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 19:55:13 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 19:55:17 2005 Subject: REVISED: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak on the "Right to Refuse" In-Reply-To: <20050820013706.54762.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 19, 2005 06:37:06 PM Message-ID: <20050820025513.94195.qmail@mall-net.com> > THE PHUCKING PHARMAPSUEDO'S BETTER FUCKING > BE CAREFUL. > THEY ARE WALKING ON EGGSHELLS WITH PEOPLE LIKE ME; > AND I KNOW THAT THERE ARE MANY OTHERS OUT THERE > WHO FEEL THE SAME ABOUT ALL OF THE CORRUPTION. > PEOPLE LIKE ME ARE PISSED AT ALL OF THE PHRAUDULENT > PHARMAPSUEDO SHIT THAT GOES ON BEHIND THE SCENES. So are those who know. Not all care, and when it comes time to get help, well... most people are grateful for any help they get. > DO WE THE PEOPLE STILL HAVE THE TEAMWORK FIGHTING > BACK POWER, TO FIGHT ALL OF THE GOD DAMNED > FUCKERS LIKE MERK? They just lost a major lawsuit, and are now more likely to get HURT financially. Perhaps the industry will think more carefully... Or perhaps just jack up prices to compensate. Jail time is required. That short circuit's the bean counters controls. > CERTAIN PLACES IN THE PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRIAL > KOMPLEX NEED TO BE BOMBED STRATEGICALLY. > AND IT ISN'T MY WILL TO BE A TERRORIST. The effectiveness of terrorism is directly proportional to the number of bodies available to become terrorists. As America during the depression and the Jews in WW-II have shown, that number is very low among civilized people. Other historical examples show that this is much, much higher in areas where people have little to lose, such as among refugees. Once people invest in a home, they see a future which is dependent upon law and order helping them maintain ownership of that home. It may not be a great future; but it IS a future. And with that, the potential body count supporting terrorism falls as long as no external force is seen threatening to take that home away. Real wars are fought to preserve a sense of home and a way of life. Brothers are willing to sacrifice for brothers. Neighbors, for the neighborhood and the nation. Therefore, the first goal of terror, is to create a pool of refugees by turning a government against those people. Once theses people don't see a future, they may be recruited by the very people who created the initial problem. Or their children who have not yet bought into that sense of home. As the pharmaceutical industry is generally seen as heling everyone, albeit not alway well, and as most of us see a future, the pharmaceutical industry is not something that many would support acts of terrorism against. And when one person does it, the act cause others to have sympathy for the pharmaceutical industry. Quite the contrast in legal actions. The use of Law is usually seen as protecting the average person against the corporations. Thus legal action is far superior to terrorism on two counts. First, it is repeatable! Since there are no casualties, there is no need of disenfranchised bodies to support the action. Furthermore, the government is seen as providing the infrastructure support for the battle and enforcing the results; thus neither the aggrieved parties in civil suits, nor the prosecutor in criminal actions, need risk life and limb to attain concrete results. Second, the average person does not feel fear in such action, and is thus more likely to support it in all respects. Just look at McVey. Despite his act of terror having specific and reasonable causes (Waco and Ruby Ridge), he did not gather popular support. His action scared the populace! Same for Kazynski. He terrified the populace despite a reasonable message -- technology can make default decisions which are not in your best interests. Indeed it can! Had these two people used a more reasonable means of communication -- publications, lawsuits, etc.; they would likely have been viewed as heros by many. Their resorting to terror destroyed their message, destroyed their reputation, and did the opposite of what they wished to do. That is civilization! > VITAMINS AND MINERALS MAY NOT BE THE ULTIMATE > SOLUTION(S), BUT WHEN WE THE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE > **OUR** POWER CONTROL, OVER THE FUCKERS AT THE > PHARMACOLOGY DICTATORSHIP HEADQUARTERS: > THE F.D.A. (THE FUCKED UP FOOD AND DRUG ADDICTION > ASSOCIATION-ADMINISTRATION.), WHAT THE HELL DO WE > DO? It is difficult! The web has made it easier for us to search out alternatives. Some work, some don't... But again, the web has made it easier for us to find those who have tried this or that therapy, and comment on how it was for them. The number one threat to the pharmaceutical companies is the internet! As to control... we DO have control. We can chose not to take pharmaceuticals, and look for nutritional alternatives first, and pharmaceuticals only when there are no nutritional alternatives. But... in some cases there are NO good alternatives, not even pharmaceuticals. We do die, you know. Part of the dignity of a good life is accepting this and not going bonkers when your time is up. That is not to say you don't do all you reasonably can to see if there are alternatives... but have consideration for others who may live longer. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Fri Aug 19 20:16:28 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Fri Aug 19 20:16:33 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak Message-ID: <000e01c5a535$8ea33ec0$6501a8c0@mikey> Vesta has a point, but allow me to extend it to the point of absurdity. If I were in heath care, and ordered to circumcise a newborn boy without his consent, I would refuse. If ordered to withhold treatment from a comatose patient without a Living Will to that effect, I would refuse. But the choice of contraceptive use is made by a sane adult, and the pharmacist only provides the medication. For the pharmacist to refuse to serve the customer on "moral grounds" implies that the pharmacist is attempting to impress his belief structure on another. THIS is unethical. It is tantamount to holding the knife manufacturer liable for the use of his product by a rapist, or the bartender for the drunk driver. Or for that matter, Vesta, should you refuse to pay your taxes because thy support a war some consider unjust? Yes, your tax dollars support the military in Iraq. Why not refuse to buy gasoline, because the Saudis use that profit to support Islamic Jihad? No- we have no responsibility for anyone's salvation other than our own. We are required to show them the path to salvation, but it is their choice to accept or deny it. We will be judged only on our own actions, not the actions of others. And the actions spoken of regarding enforcement of morality upon others are the same as the cause of every religious war in human history, including the present terrorist jihad. Tolerance is the key- not attempting to enforce beliefs upon others. -MB From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 21:17:44 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 21:17:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] A NEW SAYING, BY DR. MICHAEL SAVAGE. In-Reply-To: <20050820022318.9809.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 19, 2005 07:23:17 PM Message-ID: <20050820041744.40303.qmail@mall-net.com> > RADIO TALK SHOW HOST; DR. MICHAEL SAVAGE > SAYS THAT LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER. > > WELL; THAT IS PARTIALLY TRUE. > > LIBERALISM AND CONSERVATIVISM ARE BOTH, > EQUALLY, **ENVIRON-MENTAL** DISORDERS! (Chuckle) Some philosopher, I foget who; but I suspect he was French, said that if one is not liberal in one's youth, one does not have a heart. IF one is not conservative in one's maturity, one does not have a mind. We need both, and democracy tends to balance them out and season them a bit with the need to debate both sides. -javilk- mall-net.com ------------------- IMAGINEERING -------------------- ----- Advice, Analysis, Strategies, Development ----- ----------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2005, Copyright retained. All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 21:41:07 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 21:41:12 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REGARDING JOHN DELOREAN. Message-ID: <20050820044107.19008.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> EXCERPTS FROM THE BOOK: HARD DRIVING, (FROM PAGE 126, PARAGRAPHS TWO AND THREE), AUTHORED BY WILLIAM HADDAD; WITH SOME OF MR. HADDAD'S COMMENTARY, A QUOTATION FROM JOHN DELOREAN, AND A LITTLE BIT OF MY ADDED COMMENTS AT THE END: HADDAD: JOHN CONTINUED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES OF OUR DEPENDENCE ON ARAB OIL. HE BELIEVED IN BOTH PRESIDENT NIXON'S AND PRESIDENT CARTER'S PLANS TO MAKE THE NATION SELF-SUFFICIENT THROUGH THE DEVELOPMENT OF ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES, BUT EVERY TIME A REPORT ON THE SUBJECT WAS ISSUED, JOHN WAS DISAPPOINTED. DELOREAN: "THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE DOING;" HADDAD: HE SAID. DELOREAN: "A BUNCH OF ACADEMICS WITH THEIR HEADS UP THEIR ASSHOLES ARE TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND." HADDAD: JOHN'S ANSWER WAS TO HAVE ME PREPARE A REPORT FOR THE PRESIDENT ON HIS VIEW OF ALTERNATIVE ENERGY SOURCES AND THEIR DEVELOPMENT. HE USED EVERY CONTACT IN INDUSTRY HE KNEW, AND I FOLLOWED THROUGH WITH A TEAM OF MY OWN. WHEN THE REPORT WAS COMPLETED, I SENT IT TO PRESIDENT CARTER, TO KEY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, AND TO OTHER INFLUENTIAL AMERICANS. THE WHITE HOUSE AND OTHERS PRAISED IT, AND BEGAN TO CITE IT IN REPORTS. EDITORIALS SOON APPEARED, AND JACK ANDERSON WROTE A COLUMN ON JOHN'S VIEW THAT HYDROGEN WAS THE FUEL OF THE FUTURE. THIS WAS THE JOHN I HAD KNOWN IN GENERAL MOTORS DAYS. MY THOUGHTS/COMMENTS (CLYDE): JOHN DELOREAN'S VIEW ON AMERICAN DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL, AND HIS VIEW ON THE NECESSARY DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTERCONVENTIONAL (ESOTERIC) ENERGY ALTERNATIVES, AND HYDROGEN AS A NATIONAL FUEL, IS IN 100% SYNCHRONOCITY WITH THE WAY THAT I FEEL. CAN HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN BE EASILY SPLIT FROM WATER, USING ONLY TUNED SONIC ENERGY, TUNED TO A PERFECT RESONANT CAVITY, TO PRODUCE CHEAP AND ABUNDANT HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GASSES, TO PRODUCE AND BURN THE GASSES AT WILL, SO AS TO WHERE THERE WOULD BE NO NEED OR WORRY, FOR DANGEROUS EXPLOSIVE GARGANTUAN SIZED STORAGE TANKS REQUIRED; ONLY JUST A FULL TANK OF WATER ONLY, AND NOT MUCH ELSE, TO GET US TO PLACES, BOTH EFFICIENTLY AND INEXPENSIVELY??? CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/9aa616f2/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 22:29:38 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 22:29:44 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050820021946.34901.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 19, 2005 07:19:46 PM Message-ID: <20050820052938.79240.qmail@mall-net.com> > > I AM SHELL SHOCKED BY REALITY; HYPERTENSION STRESS; POST TRAUMATIC > STRESS; INSOMNIA FROM HELL; NUCLEAR BLAST-SHORT FUSE PERFECTIONISM > TROUBLES; AND RACING THOUGHTS. > > Post traumatic stress disorder is characterized by slow brain wave > forms and low body temperature with some adrenaline spikes. That sounds > more like the opposite of your symtomology. > > I DON'T KNOW FOR CERTAIN. > > But you could look into EMDR, Eye Movement Desensitization and > Reprocessing therapy. > > I PROBABLY WON'T HAVE THE TIME TO RESEARCH INTO THAT SUBJECT MATERIAL. Do you have memories of things which really bother you? Events which keep flashing back in your mind? If not, then EMDR is less likely to be useful. > It really does not matter how they died; what matters is that you > don't give up, or you will have effectively followed their paths a lot > younger! > > I WANT TO BLAST BOTH MY DAD, AND MY GRANDFATHER, BUT MAYBE THAT IS THE WRONG WAY TO THINK. > I FEEL REVENGE IN MY HEART, BUT THE FEELINGS OF REVENGE ARE ONLY TEARING ME UP INSIDE. If there are specific instances which kindle this, then EMDR would likely be quite useful. But if your anger is physiologically based, and your father and grandfather are just convenient targets, then I don't know how useful EMDR would be. > > THAT IS WHY I NEED TO COMPLETE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT, AND TO SLOW > MY RACING HYPER VELOCITY THOUGHT PATTERNS, WAY WAY DOWN, TO ALPHA > SERENITY; AND TO USE E.M. BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE. > > Alpha numbs the mind. I think Theta would be more appropriate, > > IF 7.83 C.P.S. (CYCLES PER SECOND) IS ALPHA, THEN AT > WHAT FREQUENCY DOES THE THETA RANGE BEGIN, AND > AT WHAT FREQUENCY DOES THETA RANGE END??? 7.83 is the middle of Theta. Alpha is around 12. As you slip below 5hz, memory starts failing because the nerve cells have enough time to heal between pulses. And with that, you slip into sleep. There is some stuff on brain waves and health at http://www.sitepsych.com/alt/bioergo/bwaves.html > > INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY NEEDS TO BE FURTHER MASS > PRODUCED, FOR ALL OF US EQUALLY, AND WITH QUALITY HERE IN THE STATES, > NOT IN COMMUNIST CRAP WORTHLESS SHODDY SHIT GARBAGE CHINA. > > > Well, the choice is whether you can afford it or not. $500 from > China, or $3000 from the USA. > > > I CHOOSE $3000.00, FROM THE U.S.A., BECAUSE I HAVE ZERO LOVE FOR CHINESE GARBAGE. But do you chose nothing in stead of something? That is often the choice. Most chose something, even if it is chinese. > I THINK THAT MASSES OF PEOPLE WOULD BECOME ADDICTED, IF RESONANT REJUVENATION THERAPY WERE MASS PRODUCED, AT WORLD WAR TWO AMERICAN WAR MACHINE SPEED. It would take a major, highly visible need to get our industry to do that. 10% - 25% of our people wanting -- asking retailers for it -- would get some action. But nothing short of the threat of conquest would get that level of cooperation. > I'VE SEEN THE GOOD SIDE OF AMERICA JUST AS EQUALLY AS THE BAD SIDE OF AMERICA. I really don't think so. > > I WANT AMERICA TO BE AMERICA AGAIN! > > It's always been America, only different. > > > NOT THIS FUCKING WARZONE BETWEEN THE FUCKING COMMUNIST LIBERALS, AND > THE FUCKING FASCIST CONSERVATIVES. given that they are not shooting at each other with guns, nor throwing rocks at each other, I'd say it wasn't a war zone. > The extremes are, of course, extreme. But there is a lot in the > middle. More in the middle than near the edges. > > YEAH, AND THERE IS ALSO VERY MUCH HORSESHIT BULLSHIT NONSENSE DISINFOMATION IN THE MIDDLE TOO, AS EQUALLY AS AT THE EDGES. Given that people talk in the middle, I think most of the lies end up exposed rather quickly in the minddle grounds. And not just by the opposition, either! A lot of middle of the road Republicans hate Falwell. > > IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL WAS NOT SUCH A GOOD > THING TO HAPPEN FOR ANY OF US. > > Any change brings good and bad. I think the fall of the Communists > was a very good thing for the USA, and for the world. However... we > appear to have not taken the best steps after it. > > THAT IS RIGHT; WE HAVEN'T TAKEN THE BEST STEPS TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE. We don't have the vision. > Also, we paid a very high price for our cold war efforts; but we > did not appreciate what those efforts did for our technology. The cold > war started resulting in our national highway system, space exploration, > better weather forecasts (saving tens of thousands of lives each year), > computer technology (Von Neumann, Grace Hopper, et al developing the > first real computers.), Integrated circuits, and a host of other things > which we take for granted. > > If it had not been for the cold war, there would not have been any > rush for any of this! > > DO WE ALL NEED A HOT WAR THEN NOW???; ( NUCLEAR WARS IN VARIOUS PLACES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD,) TO FURTHER THIS FUCKING STAGNANT COUNTRY ALONG, INSTEAD OF IT BEING STUCK IN THE SLUM SLUMP THAT IT IS PRESENTLY IN; AT LEAST THE WAY THAT TECHNICAL ANTI PROGRESSION IS, IN THIS SLUMBURB OF TULSA OKLAHOMA WHERE I AM CURRENTLY FORCED TO HAVE LIVE, AND TO PUT UP WITH THE CEASELESS SENSELESS BULLSHIT??? I don't think we need a hot war. Oh, one will come, war always comes sooner or later. But not tomorrow. We need leaders with some vision. Ronald Reagan had vision, and got it across. > > HEALTH, WEALTH, AND HAPPINESS ARE FLEETING GLIMPSES OF THINGS THAT I > NEED, BUT THAT I CANNOT HAVE. Well, it's all relative. Health, yes, you do need more of; but you are better off than quite a lot of people in Africa, even a fair number in America. Wealth is relative. Many in other parts of the world would consider you wealthy. As for happiness, there is that wonderful saying, "Happy people don't make history." But I have been laying the path to happiness in front of you over and over, and you just don't want to try it. Seems you don't really want happiness. The Dalai Lama says that "human relations besed on mutual compassion and love are fundamentally important to human happiness." Happiness does not derive just from human relations. Dogs too, evoke much of this compassion and warmth. I miss my two Roamenough Dogs. When they roamed enough, they'd drop by for a visit. They were the perfict dog friends. Sometimes we walked together, sometimes just sat. And then, they would go one their way. I loved those two guys, and I know they loved me. But their owner moved, and so they left. I miss them. (Sniff.) We were just very, very good friends. It's like that with humans. Good friends own themselves. They come, they share, then they leave. But it isn't just dogs. One needs to cultivate an appreciation for all of the things around one. Hence my repeated suggestions you take photographs, frame (look at things through a frame to compose), and/or write about things which look beautiful. Wildflowers growing by the road, the shimmer of a thin layer of oil on a puddle in the road, a sunset... When you start looking at these things, relaxing and looking at them, you begin to create a relationship in your brain. You begin to see that you are in a relationship with all that is around you. "Rather than being unhappy and hateful, we should rejoice in the success of others." Easier said than done; but... as you study the successes of others, you begin to see how you may succeed yourself. > Welcome to the club called "Life". > > YEAH; LIFE IN QUOTATION MARKS! > > MANY TIMES LIFE TENDS TO BE ANTI LIFE. That, I think, is rare. Now, I have no love for the city. But I have lived in cities, worked in cities, and found myself happy because I was doing something interesting and useful. You, being in retail, are helping others. Smile at them. Complement them on something. Soon, as you see them take happiness in your complement, you will see yourself as gaining happiness tooo. > > DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. I don't think we are deprived of those. > > DOES ANYONE KNOW WHERE I CAN GET SOME CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, IN A > SUFFICIENT DOSAGE, TO CALL IT QUITS, ON ENDLESS GO NO WHERE, AND ENDLESS > PAIN, SUFFERING AND MISERY?? > > Do you want to lose? Or to win? > > IT IS MY WILL TO BE A SURVIVOR, AND A WINNER. > > If you quit, all is lost. Just > like when your father died. So look at Tomorrow. Look at how, through your actions today, you can make Tomorrow better. > > > DO ANY MAD SCIENTISTS DELIBERATELY END THEIR LIVES FROM FRUSTRATION AND BROKEN HEARTEDNESS? > > People do it for any number of reasons. But so what! You are > still young, there is still a lot of potential which you can reach. > > I DO WONDER IF I MAY HAVE A SLIM CHANCE TO RECEIVE A MONEY GRANT FROM THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY, IN FORT COLLINS AND BOULDER COLORADO, FOR THE TALKING CLOCK PROJECT THAT I WANT DONE: AND I WANT IT DONE IN AMERICA TOO; NOT IN SHIT TURD WORLD COUNTRY CHINA. The Small Business Association would be more appropriate. I took some classes there many years ago. But they tend to want to control things, and to pull the plug quickly when things don't take off, blame someone, and just... It's not a good deal. > I NEED A GOOD MENTOR IN MY LIFE, WHO IS FINACIALLY SUCCESSFUL IN THE RIGHT TYPE OF BUSINESS/ES. Those are hard to find... one finds them by offering to help them, seeking work with them, etc. Then one has to excell and show oneself to be worthy of their mentoring. That's not easy! > BAD IGORS: I WONDER IF I CAN PUT MY BIMBO DUMBASS MOM INTO THE CATEGORY OF AN IGOR, SINCE SHE RUINED MY LOTUS SEEDLING THAT WAS SUCCESSFULLY GROWING. One needs put less value on any one experiment. > > I AM SICK OF THE ENVIRONMENT OF TULSA, AND OKLAHOMA. > > THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE ARE SICK, AND I AM SICK AND TIRED BECAUSE OF THEM. > Clyde, the prison is in your mind, Not Oklahoma. > > > NOT NECESSARILY; I WENT TO THE GREEN DAY CONCERT, YESTERDAY > NIGHT, IN OKLAHOMA SHITTY, AND AGREE WITH POLITICAL VIEWS THAT > THEY ARE CURRENTLY CONVEYING: AMERICAN IDIOCY. > > > If it's in your mind, you can change it. > > MONEY AND ANTIMONEY; ALL IN MY MIND??? Exactly! More antimoney than ways of getting money. If you hate money, you will never get much of it. If you enjoy what you do to get money, the help you bring to others, then opportunities will come your way. > IF SO, HOW CAN I BRING FINANCIAL SUCCESS INTO MY LIFE, AND KEEP IT??? One person can not know what is going on everywhere. The more frends one has, the more opportunities one hears about. And friends are made by sharing, talking, helping. The best friends are those with similar values. > Go take a dish of water, drop some light machine oil on it, and > look for the rainbow in shallow-angle light. See how pretty it is? You > can find some of that type of thing in the real world, and a lot of > other things. Flowers growing by the sidewalks, and sometimes through > them, cloud formations, etc. > > Go to photoblogs.com and browse through some of the more interesting > photographs, looking at color, composition, etc. There are thousands of > photos there, don't get hung up on any one artist who might be having a > bad week in some city. There are beautiful nature photos there! > Something about Durham County is particularly good. > > > DURHAM COUNTY PHOTO BLOG??? Yes... let me find it for you... http://www.DurhamTownship.com/ > There is beauty all around you, Clyde. You just have to look for > it so that your mind can begin to recognize it. You've been in a > pressure cooker too long. > > DAMN STRAIGHT ABOUT THE PRESSURE COOKER! We need to difuse it, to cool it down a little by, well, giving you some sense that all is well with this world. It isn't really, but there is enough well that you can feel well. > I WANT TRUE NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWERS, AND I'D LIKE TO DO MY > OWN PHOTAGRAPHY OF THEM TOO, IS POSSIBLE FOR ME. > That's what rejuvenation the mind. > > > I NEED REJUVENATION TECHNOLOGY,,,, BADLY! > 1. ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT. > 2. INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY. > 3. (NELUMBO NUCIFERA) LOTUS FLOWERS, TO GROW, TO PHOTOGRAPH, AND TO EAT. The brainwave stuff you are working on. Could inversion therapy help you? Or maybe just holding your hands on the top of a door, and letting your body hang limp from those hands. > Life is full of beauty! > > I AGREE; LIFE IS FULL OF BEAUTY. Well... start looking for or at some, describe what you see. > BUT LIFE IS ALSO FULL OF UGLY, EQUALLY AS WELL. Ugliness is a point of view. Is a bat ugly? It is quite functional. > I SEE REALITY IN A DUALITY PERSPECTIVE; > AND I DON'T LIKE THAT. If you can only see two perspectives, you are not very imaginative. > You just have to look for it. And when > you do, you will see that there is beauty in yourself, too. The way you > create things, the questions you sometimes ask... many things you do > inspire others. > > YEAH, I HAVE INSPIRED OTHERS, AND THAT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD, BUT IN THE END, IT ALWAYS SEEMS THAT I FAIL, AND THINGS THAT I DO, TURN OUT IN VAIN. So what! Do it anyway! There was a set of sayings on a wall at Mother Teresa' mission about doing it anyway. I read the book the man who wrote that wrote. (wrote that wrote... chuckle, I guess I'm slowing down for the night.) > > BUT NOT ALWAYS THOUGH! > > (I mean, just look at what you say here. You inspire me to tell > you life is better than you think; and that inspires others. I kind of > hope you will get better and inspire others directly, though that does > take time.) > > I HOPE THAT THE MASSIVE LISTS OF WEBLINKS THAT I HAVE SHARED,HAVE HELPED, AND HOPE THAT THEY HAVE INSPIRED OTHERS TOO. Clyde, it doesn't matter. You have created a contrast, triggered some thought, and between us, taken this dead list and made it alive again. > I WORKED REALLY HARD THE OTHER DAY, TO FURTHER ALONG MY SIXTH LIST OF REMINDER WEBLINKS, BUT I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT I'M READY ENOUGH YET, AT THIS TIME, TO SHARE THEM WITH OTHERS YET, AS > THERE ARE MANY OTHER WEBSITES THAT I'D STILL LIKE TO INCLUDE, AND IT WEARS ME OUT, HAVING TO GO THROUGH ALL OF THE WEBLINKS, JUST TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THEY ARE EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO OTHERS. > IT IS A BIG ENERGY DRAINER FOR ME TO SPEND ALL OF THE TIME, COMPILING ALL OF THOSE WEBLINKS TOGETHER, INTO ONE, COMPLETE, GARGANTUAN WHOLE. Yes. I built a web site around that concept. Mall-Net. Sad that fades... Link rot, they call it. People move on, change the focus of their web sites, and before you know it, your links are broken. Time to pave Mall-Net's hot list area and link stuff over and start again. Want me to put your links up at Mall-Net? -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 22:52:04 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 22:52:06 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REGARDING JOHN DELOREAN. In-Reply-To: <20050820044107.19008.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 19, 2005 09:41:07 PM Message-ID: <20050820055204.94378.qmail@mall-net.com> > DELOREAN: > "THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL THEY'RE > DOING;" They stil don't! > EDITORIALS SOON APPEARED, AND JACK ANDERSON > WROTE A COLUMN ON JOHN'S VIEW THAT HYDROGEN > WAS THE FUEL OF THE FUTURE. THIS WAS THE JOHN > I HAD KNOWN IN GENERAL MOTORS DAYS. Yep. Hydrogen... But hydrogen isn't a primary fuel, like oil. It is, at best, an medium of energy conveyance. It is like saying, "Copper is the electricity of the future! If we can just make enough copper, we will have all the electricity we need!" Well, it can help move the electricity and if we spin the copper fast enough, it can help Make the electricity from some other form of energy. Let me repeat that: From some OTHER form of Energy! And that is exactly what hydrogen is -- copper wires! A way of trucking energy from one place to another. > JOHN DELOREAN'S VIEW ON AMERICAN DEPENDENCE > ON FOREIGN OIL, AND HIS VIEW ON THE NECESSARY > DEVELOPMENT OF COUNTERCONVENTIONAL (ESOTERIC) > ENERGY ALTERNATIVES, AND HYDROGEN AS A NATIONAL > FUEL, IS IN 100% SYNCHRONOCITY WITH THE WAY THAT And how, pray tell, does one make hydrogen? Splitting water. Ok... but how does one split water? Well, you put electrodes in the water and... um... electricity does the rest. And where does the electricity come from? Ohh... Solar? Wind power? Natural gas? Oil??? Coal???? All of those can be used to produce the electricity to produce the hydrogen. But... you still have to buy the electricity. > I FEEL. > CAN HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN BE EASILY SPLIT FROM > WATER, USING ONLY TUNED SONIC ENERGY, TUNED TO > A PERFECT RESONANT CAVITY, TO PRODUCE CHEAP > AND ABUNDANT HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GASSES, TO Well, you still have to put energy in to split the hydrogen from the oxygen. Mike? How much energy? > PRODUCE AND BURN THE GASSES AT WILL, SO AS TO > WHERE THERE WOULD BE NO NEED OR WORRY, FOR > DANGEROUS EXPLOSIVE GARGANTUAN SIZED STORAGE > TANKS REQUIRED; ONLY JUST A FULL TANK OF WATER > ONLY, AND NOT MUCH ELSE, TO GET US TO PLACES, > BOTH EFFICIENTLY AND INEXPENSIVELY?? What, a tank of water in the car, then make it as you drive? But you still need energy, and I rather suspect that it's easier to store that energy in batteries and use it in motors; than split hydrogen, compress it, store it, and then burn it in an internal combustion engine. Methane from methane clathrates off shore, all over the world, has four times the total energy reserves as oil. But CH4 is less dense, and thus harder to handle than C8H18. Less energy per gallon. A LOT less energy per gallon! You still need energy. Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy transport medium. Politicians are not scientists. they stil think that Gasohol is important to their elections. Yes, they are right about that! The corn lobby certainly contributes as much as they can to their re-election! But it's a waste of energy to grow corn for Gasohol, not a source. (Or maybe the economics have finally changed, now that real oil is priced so high. But how much of America do you have to plant with corn to meet our national energy needs?) The answer is Nuclear and methane clathrates for the short run. Solar and wind as a medium range, and nuclear fusion for the long run. At least, that's my opinion. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 23:17:45 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 23:17:50 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050820052938.79240.qmail@mall-net.com> from "javilk@mall-net.com" at Aug 20, 2005 05:29:38 AM Message-ID: <20050820061745.7248.qmail@mall-net.com> > > As you slip below 5hz, memory starts failing because the nerve > cells have enough time to heal between pulses. And with that, you slip > into sleep. > > There is some stuff on brain waves and health at > http://www.sitepsych.com/alt/bioergo/bwaves.html > I forgot to mention, this is not a public set of pages. You can look at them, all the list members can look at them, but they aren't meant for the average person. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 23:41:07 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 23:41:12 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REGARDING JOHN DELOREAN. In-Reply-To: <20050820055204.94378.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050820064107.19485.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> > CAN HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN BE EASILY SPLIT FROM > WATER, USING ONLY TUNED SONIC ENERGY, TUNED TO > A PERFECT RESONANT CAVITY, TO PRODUCE CHEAP > AND ABUNDANT HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GASSES, TO Well, you still have to put energy in to split the hydrogen from the oxygen. YEAH; THE ENERGY THAT I AM REFERING TO, IS ACOUSTIC ENERGY, AND ACOUSTIC ENERGY ONLY, APART FROM THE ELECTRICAL ENERGY 'POWER', FOR THE ULTRASONIC TRANSDUCER, OR MICRO STEAM / AIR WHISTLE, IN COMBINATION WITH A TUNED CAVITY. Mike? How much energy? ELECTRICAL ENERGY + 'MICRO' HIGH DECIBEL ACOUSTIC ENERGY. > PRODUCE AND BURN THE GASSES AT WILL, SO AS TO > WHERE THERE WOULD BE NO NEED OR WORRY, FOR > DANGEROUS EXPLOSIVE GARGANTUAN SIZED STORAGE > TANKS REQUIRED; ONLY JUST A FULL TANK OF WATER > ONLY, AND NOT MUCH ELSE, TO GET US TO PLACES, > BOTH EFFICIENTLY AND INEXPENSIVELY?? What, a tank of water in the car, then make it as you drive? YES; JUST AS A CARBORATOR AND FUEL INJECTOR SPIT FUEL INTO A SMALL CAVITY CHAMBER TO BURN AT WILL; THE SAME WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO WATER, AS LONG AS THE CAVITY IS FABRICATED TO A FREQUENCY THAT MATCHES THE FREQUENCY OF THE ULTRASONIC TRANSDUCER, OR MICRO STEAM / AIR WHISTLE THAT IS BEING USED. But you still need energy, and I rather suspect that it's easier to store that energy in batteries. YES. I AGREE. and use it in motors; than split hydrogen, compress it, store it, and then NO; THAT WAY WOULD BE A COMBINATION OF INEFFICIENT + EXPLOSIVELY DANGEROUS. burn it in an internal combustion engine. I'VE READ THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE THAT WAY, BUT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NECESSARILY TRUE THOUGH. IT WAS SOMETHING FOR ME TO SERIOUSLY PONDER. WELL MY BRAIN IS NEARLY DEAD FOR THIS DAY. I NEED TO TRY TO GET SOME SLEEP BEFORE WORK TOMORROW (TODAY), THIS MORNING AT 7:00 A.M. C.S.T. I'LL REPLY BACK TO THE OTHER E-MAIL TOMORROW, IF THERE WILL BE ENOUGH TIME. LATER, CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/0b41cabf/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Fri Aug 19 23:50:08 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 23:50:14 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REGARDING JOHN DELOREAN. In-Reply-To: <20050820064107.19485.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 19, 2005 11:41:07 PM Message-ID: <20050820065008.19334.qmail@mall-net.com> > > CAN HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN BE EASILY SPLIT FROM > > WATER, USING ONLY TUNED SONIC ENERGY, TUNED TO > > A PERFECT RESONANT CAVITY, TO PRODUCE CHEAP > > AND ABUNDANT HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GASSES, TO > > Well, you still have to put energy in to split the hydrogen from > the oxygen. > > YEAH; THE ENERGY THAT I AM REFERING TO, IS ACOUSTIC ENERGY, AND ACOUSTIC ENERGY ONLY, APART FROM THE ELECTRICAL ENERGY 'POWER', FOR THE ULTRASONIC TRANSDUCER, OR MICRO STEAM / AIR WHISTLE, IN COMBINATION WITH A TUNED CAVITY. Does not matter. Energy is energy. Acoustic energy is basically heat energy. And unlike electric, you then have to separate the O2 from H2 before they cool enough to react. So you have a hot cell rather than a cold cell. For small scale, the cold electrical cell is probably the way to go. Much, much simpler. For massive industrial scale conversion, I don't know. > What, a tank of water in the car, then make it as you drive? > > YES; JUST AS A CARBORATOR AND FUEL INJECTOR SPIT FUEL INTO A SMALL CAVITY CHAMBER TO BURN AT WILL; THE SAME WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO WATER, AS LONG AS THE CAVITY IS FABRICATED TO A FREQUENCY THAT MATCHES THE FREQUENCY OF THE ULTRASONIC TRANSDUCER, OR MICRO STEAM / AIR WHISTLE THAT IS BEING USED. Hmmm... > But you still need energy, and I rather suspect that it's easier to > store that energy in batteries. > > YES. > > I AGREE. > > and use it in motors; > > than split hydrogen, compress it, store it, and then > > NO; THAT WAY WOULD BE A COMBINATION OF INEFFICIENT + EXPLOSIVELY DANGEROUS. > > burn it in an internal combustion engine. > > I'VE READ THAT IT HAS BEEN DONE THAT WAY, BUT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NECESSARILY TRUE THOUGH. > IT WAS SOMETHING FOR ME TO SERIOUSLY PONDER. You want to break it and burn it in the same cavity? > WELL MY BRAIN IS NEARLY DEAD FOR THIS DAY. Clyde, how many hours of sleep do you get? -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Fri Aug 19 23:58:04 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Fri Aug 19 23:58:09 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050820061745.7248.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050820065804.49190.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > As you slip below 5hz, memory starts failing because the nerve > cells have enough time to heal between pulses. And with that, you slip > into sleep. I GUESS I'D INDUCE BRAIN DEATH, AT A PURE, D.C. E.M. FIELD. AT PERHAPS EVEN THE SLIGHTEST AMPLITUDE; MAYBE I SHOULD SAVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR A DOOMSDAY SCENARIO, IF THINGS DON'T TURN OUT FOR THE BETTER IN THE FUTURE, AND I HAVE TO PUT MYSELF TO (BRAIN) DEATH, IN PERFECT PEACE. I DON'T LIKE TALKING LIKE THAT, BUT WHAT THE HELL. > There is some stuff on brain waves and health at > http://www.sitepsych.com/alt/bioergo/bwaves.html I LIKE THAT WEBLINK THE BEST, OUT OF EVERY ONE THAT YOU'VE FORWARDED, FROM YOUR WEBSITE. I forgot to mention, this is not a public set of pages. You can look at them, all the list members can look at them, but they aren't meant for the average person. I WAS GOING TO WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW TO ASK, BUT I'LL ASK RIGHT NOW. SINCE YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION COPYRIGHTED, WOULD YOU GIVE ME PERMISSION TO RELAY THE ABOVE WEBLINK TO DIETER DOEPFER; THE OWNER OF THE GERMAN DOEPFER SOUND SYNTHESIZER COMPANY, WHO HELPED TO MAKE KRAFTWERK'S ELECTRONIC AND COMPUTER MUSIC FAMOUS, SO THAT MR. DOEPFER CAN THEN FORWARD THE WEBLINK TO FLORIAN SCHNEIDER, OF KRAFTERK? IF IT CAN HELP OUT IN MY ALTERNATIVE LYRICS TO RADIOACTIVITY THAT I HAVE WRITTEN. IT'S PART OF THE 'FAMOUS' GREAT RADIO CONTROVERSY. I NEED TO GO AND GET SOME SLEEP; I'M NEXT TO BRAIN DEAD RIGHT NOW. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050819/f963d0f7/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 20 00:02:35 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 20 00:02:38 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REGARDING JOHN DELOREAN. In-Reply-To: <20050820065008.19334.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050820070235.22106.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > WELL MY BRAIN IS NEARLY DEAD FOR THIS DAY. Clyde, how many hours of sleep do you get? REALITY FOR ME HAS BECOME CHAOTIC INSOMNIA; NOT GOOD FOR MY HEALTH, I THINK. I NEED TO CALL IT A DAY / NIGHT. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/7feaf601/attachment-0001.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 20 00:47:45 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 00:47:49 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050820065804.49190.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 19, 2005 11:58:04 PM Message-ID: <20050820074745.43234.qmail@mall-net.com> > javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > > > As you slip below 5hz, memory starts failing because the nerve > > cells have enough time to heal between pulses. And with that, you slip > > into sleep. > > I GUESS I'D INDUCE BRAIN DEATH, AT A PURE, D.C. E.M. FIELD. Near DC, but DC ends up not producing any stimulus. > > There is some stuff on brain waves and health at > > http://www.sitepsych.com/alt/bioergo/bwaves.html > > I LIKE THAT WEBLINK THE BEST, OUT OF EVERY ONE THAT YOU'VE > FORWARDED, FROM YOUR WEBSITE. Thankyou. I wrote that some ten years ago. > > SINCE YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION COPYRIGHTED, WOULD YOU GIVE ME PERMISSION TO RELAY THE ABOVE WEBLINK TO DIETER DOEPFER; THE OWNER OF THE GERMAN DOEPFER SOUND SYNTHESIZER COMPANY, WHO HELPED TO MAKE KRAFTWERK'S ELECTRONIC AND COMPUTER MUSIC FAMOUS, SO THAT MR. DOEPFER CAN THEN FORWARD THE WEBLINK TO FLORIAN SCHNEIDER, OF KRAFTERK? No. this is private stuff related to my own research. I am sharing it with you because I think it may help you. > IF IT CAN HELP OUT IN MY ALTERNATIVE LYRICS TO RADIOACTIVITY THAT I HAVE WRITTEN. I hate rock music!!! I absolutely do not want any of my research associated with rock music! Ever! I enjoy classical music, slow things. My favorites are Satie, Debussey, and a few others who wrote good slow classical music. It's really sad they don't write good harmonious classical music anymore. The keying for modern music just does not resolve tension, it boosts tension. It's crap! -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 20 00:52:14 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 00:52:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REGARDING JOHN DELOREAN. In-Reply-To: <20050820070235.22106.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 20, 2005 12:02:35 AM Message-ID: <20050820075214.45256.qmail@mall-net.com> > > Clyde, how many hours of sleep do you get? > > REALITY FOR ME HAS BECOME CHAOTIC INSOMNIA; NOT GOOD FOR MY HEALTH, I THINK. Correct. Try to get 8 hours. Realistically, we are more evolved to get 10 hours of sleep. I have a good friend, IQ 190, who needs 10 hours or his brain does not work well. But when it works... Wow! Do everything you can to see if getting 8 or more hours helps you. If that means an inflatable mattress, good pillows, whatever, then do it. Just make sure the plastic of the inflatable does not bother you. It might. You may also do better if you get enough tryptophan rich foods in the evening for serotonin and melatonin generation. Yes, bananas, etc. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 20 08:44:26 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 20 08:44:30 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] The fallacy of hydrogen Message-ID: <002701c5a59e$0baa67a0$6501a8c0@mikey> In answer to John's question, the amount of energy needed to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gases is exactly the same as the amount of energy produced by burning the resultant gases to produce water. The precise number of joules per mole I will have to look up in the CRC Handbook, and I haven't the time to do this at the moment. And there are conversion losses! If electricity is used, then resistance to the current creates heat, which is a loss. Sonic methods, *IF* they actually work, incur more conversion losses. Compressing the hydrogen for storage heats the gas- more thermal losses! Then how is it used? In an internal combustion engine with a power conversion factor of perhaps 0.3??? Why not use a three-phase AC Tesla motor with a power factor of 0.9- THREE TIMES more efficient! And carrying around a tank of water, which weighs 50% more than gasoline, just to hydrolyse to provide fuel to burn in an internal combustion engine is absolutely ludicrous! Ditch the water, and use the energy source to run the prime mover directly! Why introduce a half-dozen more conversion losses? That dog don't hunt. Hydrogen is an energy transport medium- and a damn inefficient one, at that! Its only advantage is that it burns cleanly, a really great political selling point to the Kneeo-Jerks! But these fools refuse to see that all it does is move the production of energy away from their backyard. And NIMBY rears his ugly head again! There might be a valid use of hydrogen fuel, IF it were produced from solar or nuclear energy sources. In the case of solar, it would take one hellaceously large solar panel to collect enough power to produce any significant amount of hydrogen. Nuke is the way to go- but please tell me whose backyard we put the reactor in? Now for the truly Mad- Man possesses DNA technology. Man well understands photosynthesis. We have the technology to engineer a synthetic biomass that would use sunlight to convert CO2 to a useful fuel. So why do we not do this? I believe that more political power and money may be garnered by maintaining the status quo of the petroleum economy- whether by direct burning of fossil fuels, or the sham of the "hydrogen economy," which is but another method of increasing the demand for oil. Were we not to need anymore Middle Eastern oil, then why would we fight wars in Iraq? And war is incredibly profitable! FDR ended the Depression with WW2, not the Socialist New Deal. Hydrogen makes all kinds of good press- it burns clean, and the MSM fools the laic into thinking it is "free" energy. It is anything but! All it does is hide the burning of fossil fuels from the masses, and INCREASE the need for these fuels! Tailor-made for the despot. -MB From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 20 11:03:41 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 20 11:03:48 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] More on unintelligent design Message-ID: <003501c5a5b1$7ffcde40$6501a8c0@mikey> Intelligent Design and the Smithsonian Published: August 20, 2005 in _The New York Times_ The Smithsonian Institution can't seem to disentangle itself from the clutches of the anti-evolution crowd. Earlier this year, the Smithsonian's natural history museum discovered to its dismay that it had agreed to be the host and co-sponsor of a movie intended to undercut the theory of evolution and make the case for "intelligent design," the idea that an intelligent agent had a hand in designing the universe. Only after intelligent-design proponents started chortling on the Internet about their stunning coup in co-opting the Smithsonian did museum officials reverse course and withdraw their sponsorship, while allowing the film to be shown. Now comes word that a little-known government office has accused the Smithsonian of retaliating against a scientist who slipped an article promoting intelligent design into an obscure journal that has only very loose connections to the Smithsonian. That judgment, by the United States Office of Special Counsel, a federal agency set up to protect whistle-blowers, is the latest twist in a case that started with the publication of the article last year in the Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. Full article: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/20/opinion/20sat4.html?th&emc=th From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 20 14:07:16 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 20 14:07:34 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: The fallacy of hydrogen In-Reply-To: <002701c5a59e$0baa67a0$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050820210716.9295.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> Michael Best wrote: And there are conversion losses! If electricity is used, then resistance to the current creates heat, which is a loss. Sonic methods, *IF* they actually work, incur more conversion losses. Compressing the hydrogen for storage heats the gas- more thermal losses! Then how is it used? I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT COMPRESSING THE HYDROGEN FOR STORAGE PURPOSES. I WAS TALKING ABOUT SONICALLY GENERATING HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GASES ON DEMAND, USING MICRO SONIC ENERGY, AND TUNED CAVITY RESONANCE, AND THEN BURNING IT IMMEDIATELY; LIKE A FUEL INJECTOR WORKS; OR AS A CARBORATOR WORKS, WHEN THEY SPIT A SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF GAS INTO THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER TO BE BURNED, IN A COMBUSTION ENGINE, WHEN THE ACCELLERATOR PUMPS THE NEEDED AMOUNT OF FUEL INTO THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER, FOR ACCELLERATION.. In an internal combustion engine with a power conversion factor of perhaps 0.3??? Why not use a three-phase AC Tesla motor with a power factor of 0.9- THREE TIMES more efficient! I'D LIKE TO GET A SHITLOAD OF TESLA THREE PHASE MOTORS, TO USE AS GENERATORS; IT PROBABLY WON'T EVER HAPPEN THOUGH. And carrying around a tank of water, which weighs 50% more than gasoline, just to hydrolyse to provide fuel to burn in an internal combustion engine is absolutely ludicrous! I ONLY USED THE COMBUSTION ENGINE AS AN EXAMPLE; I'VE ALWAYS HATED INFERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES, AND HAVE ALWAYS WANTED A SUPER HYPER EFFICIENT TURBINE ELECTRIC POWERPLANT UNDER THE HOODS OF ALL OF MY VEHICLES, INSTEAD OF INFERNAL FUCKUPTION ENGINES. I KNOW THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO DO THE ENERGY CONVERSION. LIKE YOU SAY BELOW; USE THE SOURCE TO RUN THE PRIME MOVER DIRECTLY. Ditch the water, DITCH THE COMBUSTION ENGINE, AND REPLAVE IT WITH A MICRO TURBINE POWER MEM TYPE OF POWER PLANT. and use the energy source to run the prime mover directly! Why introduce a half-dozen more conversion losses? That dog don't hunt. Hydrogen is an energy transport medium- and a damn inefficient one, at that! Its only advantage is that it burns cleanly, a really great political selling point to the Kneeo-Jerks! But these fools refuse to see that all it does is move the production of energy away from their backyard. And NIMBY rears his ugly head again! There might be a valid use of hydrogen fuel, IF it were produced from solar or nuclear energy sources. In the case of solar, it would take one hellaceously large solar panel to collect enough power to produce any significant amount of hydrogen. Nuke is the way to go- but please tell me whose backyard we put the reactor in? Now for the truly Mad- Man possesses DNA technology. Man well understands photosynthesis. We have the technology to engineer a synthetic biomass that would use sunlight to convert CO2 to a useful fuel. I'D LIKE TO SEE THIS GO IN FORWARD PROGRESS. WELL I JUST GOT OUT OF WORK FOR THE DAY, AND AM REALLY TIRED. I DON'T FEEL LIKE ARGUING ANYMORE, IF I HAVE EVEN PRODUCED A VIABLE ARGUEMENT HERE, AT ALL. -MB CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/a33b7815/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 20 14:07:59 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 20 14:09:13 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: The fallacy of hydrogen Message-ID: <20050820210800.34364.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> clyde lofton wrote: OK. BURNING HYDROGEN *AND OXYGEN SIMULTANEOUSLY* THEN DOES NOT COUNT, WITH WATER AS THE BYPRODUCT?; AS YOU ONLY MENTION HYDROGEN BELOW, AND NOT THE OXYGEN CONTENT OF THE WATER. GRANTED THOUGH, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO ARGUE ANYTHING ABOUT IT. SYNTHETIC BIOMASS SOUNDS COOL. LET'S GET THAT INDUSTRY ROLLING, IF POSSIBLE, ON A GRAND SCALE! I'M SICK OF BREATHING SMOG IN THIS DIRTY SLUM-SO-CALLED CITY. GRANTED THOUGH, AUTOMOTIVE SMOG IS ONLY A PORTION OF ALL OF THE ATMOSPHERIC CONTAMINANTS THAT ARE IN THE AIR IN THIS INDUSTRIAL SLUM SHITTY. I'D LIKE TO LIVE FURTHER OUT; IN THE COUNTRY. UNFORTUNATELY I'M A CITY BOY, AND A 900 M.P.H MOLLER SKYCAR PRIVATE COMMUTER V.T.O.L. VEHICLE WON'T WORK; TOO NOISY FROM WHAT I HAVE READ, TOO DAMNED EXPENSIVE, AND F.A.A. LICENSING FEES ARE PROBABLY SKY HIGH AS WELL. CLYDE Michael Best wrote: In answer to John's question, the amount of energy needed to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gases is exactly the same as the amount of energy produced by burning the resultant gases to produce water. The precise number of joules per mole I will have to look up in the CRC Handbook, and I haven't the time to do this at the moment. And there are conversion losses! If electricity is used, then resistance to the current creates heat, which is a loss. Sonic methods, *IF* they actually work, incur more conversion losses. Compressing the hydrogen for storage heats the gas- more thermal losses! Then how is it used? In an internal combustion engine with a power conversion factor of perhaps 0.3??? Why not use a three-phase AC Tesla motor with a power factor of 0.9- THREE TIMES more efficient! And carrying around a tank of water, which weighs 50% more than gasoline, just to hydrolyse to provide fuel to burn in an internal combustion engine is absolutely ludicrous! Ditch the water, and use the energy source to run the prime mover directly! Why introduce a half-dozen more conversion losses? That dog don't hunt. Hydrogen is an energy transport medium- and a damn inefficient one, at that! Its only advantage is that it burns cleanly, a really great political selling point to the Kneeo-Jerks! But these fools refuse to see that all it does is move the production of energy away from their backyard. And NIMBY rears his ugly head again! There might be a valid use of hydrogen fuel, IF it were produced from solar or nuclear energy sources. In the case of solar, it would take one hellaceously large solar panel to collect enough power to produce any significant amount of hydrogen. Nuke is the way to go- but please tell me whose backyard we put the reactor in? Now for the truly Mad- Man possesses DNA technology. Man well understands photosynthesis. We have the technology to engineer a synthetic biomass that would use sunlight to convert CO2 to a useful fuel. So why do we not do this? I believe that more political power and money may be garnered by maintaining the status quo of the petroleum economy- whether by direct burning of fossil fuels, or the sham of the "hydrogen economy," which is but another method of increasing the demand for oil. Were we not to need anymore Middle Eastern oil, then why would we fight wars in Iraq? And war is incredibly profitable! FDR ended the Depression with WW2, not the Socialist New Deal. Hydrogen makes all kinds of good press- it burns clean, and the MSM fools the laic into thinking it is "free" energy. It is anything but! All it does is hide the burning of fossil fuels from the masses, and INCREASE the need for these fuels! Tailor-made for the despot. -MB --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/a0def886/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sat Aug 20 14:10:48 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sat Aug 20 14:11:04 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Jobs Linked to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's In-Reply-To: <48gu4i$1mm5g6q@xtinmta01.xt.local> Message-ID: <20050820211048.43676.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> "NewsMax.com" wrote:To view this email as a web page, go here. Health Alert from NewsMax.com Headlines (Scroll down for complete stories): Study Doubts Melanoma is Epidemic Job Occupations Linked to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Researchers Looking at Alzheimer's Vaccine Study Links Painkillers, High Blood Pressure 'Healthy' Vegetable Oils Are Usually Dangerous 1. Study Doubts Melanoma is Epidemic Belief that there is an epidemic of deadly melanoma, now being diagnosed at twice the rate it was in 1986 and increasing faster than any other form of cancer, has been challenged by a study published in the current issue of The British Medical Journal. According to the New York Times, Dr. H. Gilbert Welch of the Department of Veterans Affairs in White River Junction, Vt., and Dartmouth Medical School and his two colleagues, Dr. Steven Woloshin and Dr. Lisa M. Schwartz, analyzed melanoma's changing incidence and death rate over time. Using Medicare data to track the swift rise in melanoma cases since 1986 and data compiled by the National Cancer Institute to track the death rate and the number of people with early and late-stage disease the researchers learned that since 1986, skin biopsies have risen by 250 percent, a figure nearly the same as the rise in the incidence of early stage melanoma. They discovered, however, that there was no change in the death rate from the lethal form of skin cancer. They also discovered that the incidence of advanced melanoma disease also did not change. Dr. Welch and his colleagues insist that if there was really an epidemic of melanoma - if for example, something in the environment was causing people to get the skin cancer, scientists should see increases in cancers at all stages. According to the Times, this is what happened with lung cancer caused by smoking, and with other cancers caused by toxic substances. The fact, however, that the increase was seen only in very early stage disease was a tip-off that the epidemic might be less than it appears to be, Dr. Welch explained. This, he says, leads to a difficult question. The point of screening for melanoma is to reduce the death toll from the cancer, yet if screening has not altered the number of patients with advanced disease or lowered the death rate, what is its benefit? "That's the million dollar question," Dr. Welch said. "It certainly raises questions about whether we're doing any good." He and his colleagues added, however, that people who notice suspicious moles or spots should not hesitate to see a doctor. But skin cancer screening, they said, is directed at healthy people who have no reason to suspect that anything is wrong. While admitting that more and more people are having skin biopsies, Dr. Darrell Rigel, a dermatologist in New York, said he questioned Dr. Welch's conclusion that the biopsies were leading to excessive diagnoses of melanoma. "I would say the inverse is more likely," Dr. Rigel said. "There are more melanomas and therefore more biopsies." At the American Cancer Society, Dr. Len Lichtenfeld, an oncologist, told the Times his group reviewed the same data as Dr. Welch and came to a different conclusion. Screening, he said, appears to be saving lives. He cited a trend in the data indicating that the death rate from the disease rose slightly year by year until about a decade ago. That, he told the Times, is consistent with an increase in serious cases of melanoma. Now, he said, "there has been a suggestion in the data that the death rates in the Medicare age group are going down," an effect that would be expected if screening was working, adding that "We agree that some of the melanomas are biologically indolent, but we also feel that when we look at the trend in the data and the suggestion of decreased mortality that there has been a benefit from increased surveillance for the disease." The cancer society, countered Dr. Welch, was "taking tiny, tiny differences" in death rates from year to year and "putting a huge microscope on it." In fact, he said, the death rate has been basically flat since 1986, although it bounces around slightly from year to year as a result of statistical fluctuations. "We don't disagree about the data," Dr. Welch added. "We disagree about the interpretation. We are not arguing that there is zero change in disease burden. We are arguing that most of the newly diagnosed cases are the result of increased screening." The Times recalled that two dermatologists, Dr. Robert Swerlick and Dr. Suephy Chen of Emory University and the Atlanta Veterans Affairs Medical Center, wrote in a 1997 article that while some people might be saved by screening, there also are risks from a melanoma diagnosis. "After a patient has received the diagnosis of melanoma, obtaining insurance can be extremely difficult," they wrote. "The diagnosis of melanoma also results in heightened scrutiny of all first-degree relatives and family members of the patient, and if increased surveillance leads to increased diagnosis, this process may also put them at risk for the diagnosis of melanoma." For his part, Dr. Welch says that early detection "is a double-edged sword and people need to remember that." A few people might be saved because a cancer is found early, he said, but many, many more will be thrown into the medical mill when there is nothing wrong with them. "People should realize that is the price we pay for screening," Dr. Welch said, and although screening is widely promoted, "we ought to know whether it helps." Editor's Note: Cancer can be prevented. Find out the simple, nutritional steps to take. Go Here Now 2. Job Occupations Linked to Alzheimer's, Parkinson's Reuters reported this week that a wide range of occupations, from farming to teaching, may be potential risk factors for degenerative brain diseases, such as Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, research findings suggest. In a study of more than 2.6 million U.S. death records, researchers found that a variety of jobs were associated with an increased risk of death from several forms of brain degeneration, namely Alzheimer's and Parkinson's disease, early-onset dementia and motor neuron disease. Many of the associations had been seen in earlier research and could potentially be explained by on-the-job exposures to the chemicals that farmers, welders and hairdressers routinely use or inhale. Other findings, however, such as the elevated disease risks among teachers, clergy and bank tellers, are not easily explained, according to the researchers, led by Robert M. Park of the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Cincinnati, Ohio. In their analysis, Park and his colleagues found that the bank tellers, clergy, aircraft mechanics and hairdressers had highest odds of dying from Alzheimer's disease. For Parkinson's disease, the highest risks were among biological scientists, teachers, clergy members and other religious workers. The risk of death from presenile dementia - a form of dementia that arises before the age of 65 - was greatest among dentists, graders and sorters in industries other than agriculture and, again, clergy. Dr. Blaylock: You Can Prevent Brain Diseases The connection between chemicals and brain disease is not new for readers of The Blaylock Wellness Report, edited by Russell Blaylock, M.D. Dr. Blaylock is a renowned neurosurgeon and nutritionist, and has warned of toxic substances causing an epidemic of brain diseases like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. In a recent report, "Save Your Brain: Protect Yourself from the Ravages of Alzheimer's and Other Diseases," Dr. Blaylock says when brain cells are weakened, either by disease or a lifetime of free-radical damage, they become much more vulnerable to injury by toxins of various types. It is for this reason that you must avoid further injury by avoiding known brain toxins. Among these toxins: Avoid fluoride. Avoid MSG. Avoid pesticides. Avoid vaccinations. Avoid aluminum. Avoid mercury in fillings. For complete details on Dr. Blaylock's report Go Here Now 3. Researchers Looking at Alzheimer's Vaccine Researchers are experimenting with a new nasal vaccine designed to reduce the brain plaque seen in victims of Alzheimer's disease. "It works in mice," said Dr. Howard Weiner. "I think the significance of the experiment is we've discovered a unique way of vaccination that may be of help for Alzheimer's." Weiner, co-director of the Center for Neurologic Diseases at Boston's Brigham and Women's Hospital and Harvard Medical School, told WebMD: "We think it's very exciting. The next step is to see whether it's safe in humans and then we can test to see how efficacious it is." The vaccine mixes an FDA-approved multiple sclerosis drug and another substance that helps stimulate immunity. The vaccine can be given as a nasal spray or as drops. It's designed to activate brain cells called microglia, which clean up a protein known as beta-amyloid that is found in the brain plaque seen in Alzheimer's disease. The researchers found that after the mice were treated with the vaccine, total beta-amyloid levels dropped 73 percent. Weiner added: "It's a totally unique type of vaccine from all the other vaccines that have been tried." Editor's Note: Omega-3 can protect your brain from disease -- Go Here Now 4. Study Links Painkillers, High Blood Pressure Women taking daily amounts of non-aspirin painkillers - such as extra-strength Tylenol - should monitor their blood pressure, doctors say following a new study suggesting a link between the drugs and hypertension. "If you're taking these over-the-counter medications at high dosages on a regular basis, make sure that you report it to your doctor and you're checking your blood pressure," said Dr. Christie Ballantyne, a cardiologist at the Methodist DeBakey Heart Center in Houston who had no role in the study. While many popular over-the-counter painkillers have been linked before to high blood pressure, acetaminophen, sold as Tylenol, has generally been considered relatively free of such risk. It is the only one that is not a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug or NSAID, a class of medications the federal government just required to carry stricter warning labels because of the risk for heart-related problems. Those include ibuprofen (sold as Advil and Motrin) and naproxen (sold as Aleve). Many had turned to those painkillers in the wake of problems with prescription drugs, such as Vioxx. However, the new study found that women taking Tylenol were about twice as likely to develop blood pressure problems. Risk also rose for women taking NSAIDS other than aspirin. The research found that aspirin still remains the safest medicine for pain relief. It has long been known to reduce the risk of cardiovascular problems and was not included in the government's requirement for stricter labels for NSAIDs. The study involved 5,123 women participating in the Nurses Health Study at Harvard Medical School and Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. None had had high blood pressure when it began. Results were published online Monday in the American Heart Association journal Hypertension. "It certainly sets the basis for more studies," said Dr. Stephanie Lawhorn, a cardiologist at St. Luke's Mid America Heart Institute in Kansas City. "Most of the time we think that things like acetaminophen are fairly safe drugs." The study found that women ages 34-77 who took an average daily dose of more than 500 milligrams of acetaminophen - one extra-strength Tylenol - had about double the risk of developing high blood pressure within about three years. Women 51-77 who take more than 400 mg a day of NSAIDS - equal to say two ibuprofen - had a 78 percent increased risk of developing high blood pressure over those who didn't take the drug. Those ages 34-53 had a 60 percent risk increase. "We are by no means suggesting that women with chronic pain conditions not receive treatment for their pain," lead author Dr. John Phillip Forman, of Harvard Medical School and associate physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, said in an e-mail. "By pointing out risks associated with these drugs, more informed choices can be made by women and their clinicians." Previous research linking these drugs to blood pressure problems did not look at dose. The results in this study held up even when researchers excluded women who were taking pills for headaches, something that could itself be a result of very high blood pressure, said Dr. Gary Curhan, another study author also of Harvard Medical School. As for why aspirin didn't raise risk, it might be because "aspirin has a different effect on blood vessels than NSAIDS and acetaminophen have," said Dr. Daniel Jones, dean of the school of medicine at University of Mississippi Medical Center in Jackson. ? 2005 The Associated Press Editor's Note: Blood pressure medications have serious side effects. Use the natural supplement that reduces blood pressure. Go Here Now 5. 'Healthy' Vegetable Oils Are Usually Dangerous Atherosclerosis is the scientific name for the process responsible for hardening of the arteries - the condition that leads to heart attacks and strokes. Back in the 1930s, studies indicated that elevated levels of cholesterol might cause accumulations of crud in arteries, thus hardening them. Corn oil was used in these studies to dissolve the cholesterol so that the test animals could eat it, and today, corn oil is even promoted as a cholesterol-lowering oil. But the irony here is that polyunsaturated vegetable oils such as corn oil are easily oxidized and produce rancid oils, much like rancid milk. When oxidized, these oils trigger inflammation and create free radicals. Both free radicals and chronic inflammation have been shown to cause atherosclerosis! So remember, the chemical composition of polyunsaturated fats found in many vegetable oils oxidizes rapidly, causing inflammation and free radical production. Research today shows that these early researchers mistakenly assumed it was the cholesterol causing the problem when the corn oil itself was the real cause. In fact, only when cholesterol is oxidized does it have any relationship to atherosclerosis. When oxidized, cholesterol becomes highly irritating to tissues, including those making up the walls of blood vessels. So the "healthy" vegetable oils being touted - such as corn, soybean, safflower, sunflower and canola - are contributing to the oxidation of cholesterol. Editor's Note: Find out how to protect your heart from bad fats -- Go Here Now Editor's Notes: Cancer can be prevented. Find out the simple, nutritional steps to take. Go Here Now Omega-3 can protect your brain from disease -- Go Here Now Blood pressure medications have serious side effects. Use the natural supplement that reduces blood pressure. Go Here Now Find out how to protect your heart from bad fats -- Go Here Now TO ADVERTISE For information on advertising at NewsMax.com, please contact Corrine McNurlin via e-mail or call 888-766-7542. TO SUBSCRIBE If this News Alert has been forwarded to you and you would like a subscription, please visit: http://www.newsmax.com/email.shtml Sign up for NewsMax e-mail alerts today! To remove your e-mail address from our list or to modify your profile, Go Here. We respect your right to privacy. View our policy. This email was sent to: clydelofton@yahoo.com This email was sent by: NewsMax.com 4152 West Blue Heron Blvd, Ste 1114 Riviera Beach, FL, 33404 USA 1667997 --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/b93196df/attachment-0001.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Sat Aug 20 14:13:45 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 14:13:54 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler Message-ID: <1ec.419085aa.3038f709@aol.com> O.k., so how can we help you John to be able to read, with comfort our mail that is in Html. > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7>> e_document=20 > face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2> >
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In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 > javilk@mall-net.com writes:
> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><= > FONT=20 > style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size= > =3D2> =20 >   I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to internet=20 Lord have mercy, is this what you see when I send mail ? If it is, let me know and I will get my son over here and perhaps he can show me how to write and send some other way. It will give me a chance to visit with the rotten kid. All those years I bust my butt to feed ,cloth,and educate the twerp--so how does he pay me back ???? He spends all his time with this woman he married and they in turn devote all their time to their kid, and the kid is just as rotten as his dad. No time left for his parents " strains of Cats In The Cradle" floating through my mind. By the by, there is a museum devoted to the Evolution of Appliances. I believe it is located in the basement of the Smithsonian in D.C. There is also a collection of toasters on display in Chicago. A couple of Dudes display with great pride the results of 10 thousand hours of searching and collecting, to bring to the American public the most authentic collection of toasters and waffle irons known to man. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/560c162d/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Sat Aug 20 16:45:02 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 16:45:19 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. Message-ID: <90.64476d33.30391a7e@aol.com> In a message dated 8/19/2005 10:20:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWER Clyde, I went online to see what and where we could find you this Lotus plant you wish to grow, kill and then smoke. I know the Egyptians were ga-ga over the lotus, you see it everywhere in the ancient paintings and stone work. I believe you may find lotus symbols as often if not more then the Anuk. .( I know the spelling is wrong but i am too tired to look it up) . About 5 or 6 years ago I watched a gardening show about the lotus of Egypt. There is one place in England that has a blue lotus that is a 2nd. or 3rd. generation of a plant that, as of today, no one on earth really knows if this is the true species of lotus that enraptured the people. And why or how did the plant cause such a sensation ? Let you in on a little secret Clyde, my good friend has a son who bought leaves of a South American plant, a form of Sage plant. It is legal here in New Hampshire----I refuse to tell you the name of this plant as it is still sold in a lot of states and I don't know if it is legal where you are. Anyway, I have known about this plant, the Wicca faith here use it to fly sometimes, and there was interest about growing it in green houses since there was no law against it. This plant is so dangerous that I found sites on the web warning dopers to be ever of careful of this craze inducing drug. O.K. the son of my buddy bought some of this from a head shop , went home ,rolled a joint and after smoking, alone, not knowing the effects of the herb, damn near killed his family. Big time nightmare trip for the kid, not to mention his family including the 3 children between the ages of 3 and 7 who he chased about with a knife. This kid is a grown man 23 years old and he experimented with an unknown drug alone, no life guard to pull him out of the effects or make sure he didn't harm himself or others. Clyde, I really think the idea of growing or smoking anything you have no idea of the effects of can put you in the place of not coming down for breakfast. Also, The American Indians are the only ancient peoples from anywhere on earth that I have heard of smoking anything, and that was tobacco. South Americans EAT or CHEW coco leaves, they don't smoke them. Indians ate for religious reasons Payote, and that was once or twice in a life time. The drugs of South East Asia were for thousands of years, up to today , ingested. It was the British that taught the Chinese to smoke opium. Clyde please don't smoke anything. Want to get high, bake Mary Jane Brownies or go 6 weeks without a cigarette and then smoke one, make you buzz like hell. We all look forward to your posts, sometimes you make me so mad I could smack you. Then there are times when I nod and to myself knowing just how you feel. Been there done that. I think we all have walked a mile in your shoes at sometime in our lives. Now for the hard part Clyde, we can relate to you---- can you relate to us ???? We have our rants and pains, our problems, can you understand or feel our pain ?? Clyde, if you want a friend, you must be a friend. In other words, Clyde, we care about you, do you care about us ????? Don't ignore me Clyde, I want answers to my questions, you can give them to us, no more one way help, how about you giving us some of your ideas to help us. Time to listen to our problems and try to give us advise----This is what friends do, I hope you will be a friend to us, we are willing to be ,and have been your friend. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/651c7830/attachment.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 20 19:50:02 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 20 19:50:10 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Nanotubes Rule! Message-ID: <000301c5a5fb$072f93a0$6501a8c0@mikey> Nanotubes show their strength in numbers Super-strong sheets could be used in future screens and surfaces By Kathleen Wren Science Updated: 4:07 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2005 WASHINGTON - Carbon nanotubes, the wunderkind molecules of the nanoworld, are finally showing strength in numbers. Researchers have now made large nanotube sheets that have many of the same star qualities as the prima donna-like single molecules, bringing the promises of nanotechnology a step closer to reality. The flexible, transparent sheets can conduct electricity and emit light or heat when a voltage is applied, leading their creators to propose that our car windows and the canopies of military aircraft could contain nearly invisible antennae, electrical heaters for defrost, or informative optical displays. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8976160/ From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 20 20:32:52 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 20 20:33:04 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Playing God for Man's benefit! Message-ID: <000601c5a601$03828270$6501a8c0@mikey> Researchers creating life from scratch 'Synthetic biologists' build with one genetic molecule at a time Updated: 8:48 a.m. ET Aug. 19, 2005 AP- BERKELEY, Calif. - They're called "synthetic biologists" and they boldly claim the ability to make never-before-seen living things, one genetic molecule at a time. They're mixing, matching and stacking DNA's chemical components like microscopic Lego blocks in an effort to make biologically based computers, medicines and alternative energy sources. The rapidly expanding field is confounding the taxonomists' centuries-old system of classifying species and raising concerns about the new technology's potential for misuse. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9005023/ From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 20 20:43:18 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 20 20:43:24 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] totally weird! Message-ID: <000701c5a602$788ab9b0$6501a8c0@mikey> Violent or erotic images cause momentary periods of "emotion-induced blindness" By Melanie Moran Published: August 11, 2005 If your partner seems to be ignoring you after a flash of nudity on the television screen, it might not be his or her fault: A new psychological study finds that when people are shown violent or erotic images they frequently fail to process what they see immediately afterwards. http://exploration.vanderbilt.edu/news/news_rubberneck.htm From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 20 21:20:19 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 21:20:41 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Nanotubes Rule! In-Reply-To: <000301c5a5fb$072f93a0$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 20, 2005 10:50:02 PM Message-ID: <20050821042019.82750.qmail@mall-net.com> > > Nanotubes show their strength in numbers > Super-strong sheets could be used in future screens and surfaces > > The flexible, transparent sheets can conduct electricity and emit light or > heat when a voltage is applied, leading their creators to propose that our > car windows and the canopies of military aircraft could contain nearly > invisible antennae, electrical heaters for defrost, or informative optical > displays. Yes, but researchers have also shown carbon nanotubules are highly injurious to lung tissue. So wear and abrasion results may prove carcinogenic. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 20 21:32:34 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sat Aug 20 21:32:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] How to help others read email... Message-ID: <000901c5a609$5aa69430$6501a8c0@mikey> 1) Don't use AOL 2) Don't use HTML 3) DO use Plain (ASCII) Text 4) DO limit width to sixty characters 5) NO ATTACHMENTS! 6) When replying, use some method to indicate which portions are old, and which are new, e.g.: indentation, the ">" character, etc. In a nutshell, follow the email netiquette from the early 1980's. And when in doubt, default to the most primitive system. -MB From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 20 21:54:47 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 21:54:50 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler In-Reply-To: <1ec.419085aa.3038f709@aol.com> from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Aug 20, 2005 05:13:45 PM Message-ID: <20050821045447.97160.qmail@mall-net.com> > > > --===============0272658312== > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="-----------------------------1124572425" > > > -------------------------------1124572425 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > O.k., so how can we help you John to be able to read, with comfort our mail > that is in Html. Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away, (Earth, 1998) there was a web browser with a mail handler that had the option of turning off HTML mail. And all the web consultants, sick and tired of working with it at work, decreed on the threat of expulsion, that none of them would use HTML mail, and would use that option of their mail handler to turn it off. then there arose a Darth Vader type who said unto his minions, all these people are not using my tools. I giveth you this new web browser which haveth HTML mail enabled all the time. Go use it to break down their open source protocols, browsers and all such un-evil things that walketh the web. And lo, the minions of Darth Vader of Rudemond went forth and multiplied, vexing those who did cleave to open protocols. Those of pure heart clung to the open protocols. But alas, most did not see why one should forsake the new arcane protocols, for they did allow multi-splendored things to be seen, such as images of bottles of v ails, see alice, and the agri of vi. Not to mention the plasticizers of various bodily parts, and even ferengi women with clothes on!!! Wooo! (And some Ferengi were said to have gone blind at this!) Or for humans, similar mates without such clothes. Then there arose in the dungeons of doom, viruses. ANd they used the impure arcane protocols to confound people's viewers, creating many billions of dollars of losses to industry, and forcing people to actually think while their computers were being restored by the minions of IT, formerly called various names such as EDP, DPD, CDP, and PDP. > > > > bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7>> > e_document=20 > > face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2> > >
> >
> >
In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 > > javilk@mall-net.com writes:
> > > style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px > solid"><= > > FONT=20 > > style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 > size= > > =3D2> =20 > >   I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to > internet=20 > > Lord have mercy, is this what you see when I send mail ? If it is, let me > know and I will get my son over here and perhaps he can show me how to write > and send some other way. Yep. A screen and a half of it, sometimes more, before regular text. And followed by even worse, which allegedly replicates the regular text. > It will give me a chance to visit with the rotten kid. All those years I > bust my butt to feed ,cloth,and educate the twerp--so how does he pay me back > ???? He spends all his time with this woman he married and they in turn > devote all their time to their kid, and the kid is just as rotten as his dad. > No time left for his parents " strains of Cats In The Cradle" > floating through my mind. You are lucky. Your jeans will continue. All I got from my short marriage was a slightly used 13 year old who left by the time he was 14. > By the by, there is a museum devoted to the Evolution of Appliances. I > believe it is located in the basement of the Smithsonian in D.C. I was there in 1982. Fascinating place. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 20 22:05:33 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 22:05:37 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: The fallacy of hydrogen In-Reply-To: <20050820210800.34364.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 20, 2005 02:07:59 PM Message-ID: <20050821050533.2440.qmail@mall-net.com> > BURNING HYDROGEN *AND OXYGEN SIMULTANEOUSLY* THEN > DOES NOT COUNT, WITH WATER AS THE BYPRODUCT?; AS > YOU ONLY MENTION HYDROGEN BELOW, AND NOT THE OXYGEN > CONTENT OF THE WATER. > GRANTED THOUGH, I DON'T KNOW ENOUGH TO ARGUE ANYTHING > ABOUT IT. Yes, but you got us thinking! > SYNTHETIC BIOMASS SOUNDS COOL. > LET'S GET THAT INDUSTRY ROLLING, IF POSSIBLE, ON A GRAND > SCALE! First the prottotype to prove that it works. It might not. Or it might work all too well! And then what do we do about ground water??? > I'M SICK OF BREATHING SMOG IN THIS DIRTY SLUM-SO-CALLED > CITY. > GRANTED THOUGH, AUTOMOTIVE SMOG IS ONLY A > PORTION OF ALL OF THE ATMOSPHERIC CONTAMINANTS And about half the soot is really dust from tires. > UNFORTUNATELY I'M A CITY BOY, AND A 900 M.P.H MOLLER > SKYCAR PRIVATE COMMUTER V.T.O.L. VEHICLE WON'T WORK; Woo Hoo!, but, um, probably too many collisions wth buildings, each other, etc. I just read that some of the big airline manufacturers keep looking at personal aircraft; but the catch is they need software to run the thing well enough to avoid collisions with buildings and each other. The technology is not up to it yet... yet. > TOO NOISY FROM WHAT I HAVE READ, TOO DAMNED EXPENSIVE, > AND F.A.A. LICENSING FEES ARE PROBABLY SKY HIGH AS > WELL. FAA fees are a function of many things, not the least of which is Congress. You offer personal aircraft that are automated enough; and those fees will drop under congressional pressure as the big aircraft manufacturers apply strong lobbying pressure. (Not to mention the people.) -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sat Aug 20 22:13:11 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sat Aug 20 22:13:15 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: How to help others read email... In-Reply-To: <000901c5a609$5aa69430$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 21, 2005 12:32:34 AM Message-ID: <20050821051311.6334.qmail@mall-net.com> > In a nutshell, follow the email netiquette from the early 1980's. And when > in doubt, default to the most primitive system. Laughing! Just visited the most primitive system rental... 1700's like buildings made of salvaged things on a mountain. Little buildings on many levels of narrow terracing to make the most use of the mountain. Mold. Mildew. Rotting leaves. Compost... "we return to the soil all we take out..." We ue buildings that are 8x8 and 8x10, so as to avoid the need for permits, etc. etc. LEMMEOUTAHERE!!!! And I thought I was in a lousy place!!! ARRGGHH!!! Interesting person though. Very, very tired from al th driving... bed early. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From texastjs at swbell.net Sun Aug 21 07:36:48 2005 From: texastjs at swbell.net (Tim) Date: Sun Aug 21 07:37:00 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Message of Vesta In-Reply-To: <20050821034325.8E41339839@kang.vjc.com> References: <20050821034325.8E41339839@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <43089180.6010600@swbell.net> mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG wrote: >Send Mad-Scientists mailing list submissions to > mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >You can reach the person managing the list at > mad-scientists-owner@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Mad-Scientists digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Mail Handler (Vesta111@aol.com) > 2. Re: Re: PLEASE REPLY. (Vesta111@aol.com) > 3. Nanotubes Rule! (Michael Best) > 4. Playing God for Man's benefit! (Michael Best) > 5. totally weird! (Michael Best) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:13:45 EDT >From: Vesta111@aol.com >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler >To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >Message-ID: <1ec.419085aa.3038f709@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >O.k., so how can we help you John to be able to read, with comfort our mail >that is in Html. > > > > >> bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7>> >> >> >e_document=20 > > >>face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2> >>
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In a message dated 8/17/2005 5:57:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 >> javilk@mall-net.com writes:
>>> style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px >> >> >solid"><= > > >>FONT=20 >> style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 >> >> >size= > > >> =3D2> =20 >>   I really wish you'd set your mail handler to conform to >> >> >internet=20 > >Lord have mercy, is this what you see when I send mail ? If it is, let me >know and I will get my son over here and perhaps he can show me how to write >and send some other way. > > It will give me a chance to visit with the rotten kid. All those years I >bust my butt to feed ,cloth,and educate the twerp--so how does he pay me back >???? He spends all his time with this woman he married and they in turn >devote all their time to their kid, and the kid is just as rotten as his dad. >No time left for his parents " strains of Cats In The Cradle" >floating through my mind. > >By the by, there is a museum devoted to the Evolution of Appliances. I >believe it is located in the basement of the Smithsonian in D.C. > There is also a collection of toasters on display in Chicago. A >couple of Dudes display with great pride the results of 10 thousand hours of >searching and collecting, to bring to the American public the most authentic >collection of toasters and waffle irons known to man. > > Regards Vesta >No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And >those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/560c162d/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 19:45:02 EDT >From: Vesta111@aol.com >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. >To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >Message-ID: <90.64476d33.30391a7e@aol.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >In a message dated 8/19/2005 10:20:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: > >NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWER >Clyde, I went online to see what and where we could find you this Lotus >plant you wish to grow, kill and then smoke. > I know the Egyptians were ga-ga over the lotus, you see it everywhere >in the ancient paintings and stone work. I believe you may find lotus >symbols as often if not more then the Anuk. .( I know the spelling is wrong but >i am too tired to look it up) . > >About 5 or 6 years ago I watched a gardening show about the lotus of Egypt. >There is one place in England that has a blue lotus that is a 2nd. or 3rd. >generation of a plant that, as of today, no one on earth really knows if this >is the true species of lotus that enraptured the people. And why or how did >the plant cause such a sensation ? > >Let you in on a little secret Clyde, my good friend has a son who bought >leaves of a South American plant, a form of Sage plant. It is legal here in New >Hampshire----I refuse to tell you the name of this plant as it is still sold >in a lot of states and I don't know if it is legal where you are. >Anyway, I have known about this plant, the Wicca faith here use it to fly >sometimes, and there was interest about growing it in green houses since there >was no law against it. This plant is so dangerous that I found sites on the >web warning dopers to be ever of careful of this craze inducing drug. > > O.K. the son of my buddy bought some of this from a head shop , went >home ,rolled a joint and after smoking, alone, not knowing the effects of the >herb, damn near killed his family. Big time nightmare trip for the kid, >not to mention his family including the 3 children between the ages of 3 and >7 who he chased about with a knife. This kid is a grown man 23 years old >and he experimented with an unknown drug alone, no life guard to pull him out >of the effects or make sure he didn't harm himself or others. > >Clyde, I really think the idea of growing or smoking anything you have no >idea of the effects of can put you in the place of not coming down for >breakfast. > >Also, The American Indians are the only ancient peoples from anywhere on >earth that I have heard of smoking anything, and that was tobacco. > South Americans EAT or CHEW coco leaves, they don't smoke them. Indians >ate for religious reasons Payote, and that was once or twice in a life time. > The drugs of South East Asia were for thousands of years, up to today , >ingested. It was the British that taught the Chinese to smoke opium. > Clyde please don't smoke anything. Want to get high, bake Mary Jane >Brownies or go 6 weeks without a cigarette and then smoke one, make you buzz >like hell. > > We all look forward to your posts, sometimes you make me so mad I could >smack you. >Then there are times when I nod and to myself knowing just how you feel. >Been there done that. I think we all have walked a mile in your shoes at >sometime in our lives. > >Now for the hard part Clyde, we can relate to you---- can you relate to us >???? >We have our rants and pains, our problems, can you understand or feel our >pain ?? > > Clyde, if you want a friend, you must be a friend. In other words, Clyde, >we care about you, do you care about us ????? > Don't ignore me Clyde, I want answers to my questions, you can >give them to us, no more one way help, how about you giving us some of your >ideas to help us. Time to listen to our problems and try to give us >advise----This is what friends do, I hope you will be a friend to us, we are willing to >be ,and have been your friend. > Regards Vesta > >No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And >those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050820/651c7830/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:50:02 -0400 >From: "Michael Best" >Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Nanotubes Rule! >To: >Message-ID: <000301c5a5fb$072f93a0$6501a8c0@mikey> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Nanotubes show their strength in numbers >Super-strong sheets could be used in future screens and surfaces > >By Kathleen Wren >Science >Updated: 4:07 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2005 >WASHINGTON - Carbon nanotubes, the wunderkind molecules of the nanoworld, >are finally showing strength in numbers. Researchers have now made large >nanotube sheets that have many of the same star qualities as the prima >donna-like single molecules, bringing the promises of nanotechnology a step >closer to reality. > >The flexible, transparent sheets can conduct electricity and emit light or >heat when a voltage is applied, leading their creators to propose that our >car windows and the canopies of military aircraft could contain nearly >invisible antennae, electrical heaters for defrost, or informative optical >displays. > > > >http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8976160/ > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:32:52 -0400 >From: "Michael Best" >Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Playing God for Man's benefit! >To: >Message-ID: <000601c5a601$03828270$6501a8c0@mikey> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Researchers creating life from scratch >'Synthetic biologists' build with one genetic molecule at a time > >Updated: 8:48 a.m. ET Aug. 19, 2005 > >AP- BERKELEY, Calif. - They're called "synthetic biologists" and they boldly >claim the ability to make never-before-seen living things, one genetic >molecule at a time. > >They're mixing, matching and stacking DNA's chemical components like >microscopic Lego blocks in an effort to make biologically based computers, >medicines and alternative energy sources. The rapidly expanding field is >confounding the taxonomists' centuries-old system of classifying species and >raising concerns about the new technology's potential for misuse. > > > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9005023/ > > > >To Mad Scientist constituency: I really appreciated what Vesta had to say regarding friendship and the pleasant words she spoke about its reciprocal requirements. I get it. I really don't have anything to add to that. Thank you! Lisa R. Smith >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:43:18 -0400 >From: "Michael Best" >Subject: [Mad-Scientists] totally weird! >To: >Message-ID: <000701c5a602$788ab9b0$6501a8c0@mikey> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >Violent or erotic images cause momentary periods of "emotion-induced >blindness" >By Melanie Moran >Published: August 11, 2005 > >If your partner seems to be ignoring you after a flash of nudity on the >television screen, it might not be his or her fault: A new psychological >study finds that when people are shown violent or erotic images they >frequently fail to process what they see immediately afterwards. > > > >http://exploration.vanderbilt.edu/news/news_rubberneck.htm > > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Mad-Scientists mailing list >Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > >End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 53 >********************************************** > > > From mbest at triad.rr.com Sun Aug 21 09:08:56 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sun Aug 21 09:09:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Violating the speed limit Message-ID: <001a01c5a66a$a2779fa0$6501a8c0@mikey> Light that travels faster than the speed of light >From Science Blog A team of researchers from the Ecole Polytechnique F?d?rale de Lausanne (EPFL) has successfully demonstrated, for the first time, that it is possible to control the speed of light ? both slowing it down and speeding it up ? in an optical fiber, using off-the-shelf instrumentation in normal environmental conditions. Their results, to be published in the August 22 issue of Applied Physics Letters, could have implications that range from optical computing to the fiber-optic telecommunications industry. On the screen, a small pulse shifts back and forth ? just a little bit. But this seemingly unremarkable phenomenon could have profound technological consequences. It represents the success of Luc Th?venaz and his fellow researchers in the Nanophotonics and Metrology laboratory at EPFL in controlling the speed of light in a simple optical fiber. They were able not only to slow light down by a factor of three from its well ? established speed c of 300 million meters per second in a vacuum, but they've also accomplished the considerable feat of speeding it up ? making light go faster than the speed of light. http://www.scienceblog.com/light.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 21 10:16:10 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:16:20 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Violating the speed limit In-Reply-To: <001a01c5a66a$a2779fa0$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050821171610.93111.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> SONOLUMINESCENCE CAN PRODUCE LOW FREQUENCY LIGHT. AND X RAYS AND GAMMA RAYS TRAVEL FAR FASTER IN SPACETIME THAN DOES THE LIGHT PRODUCED BY SONONLUMINESCENCE. LIGHT TRAVELLING FASTER THAN LIGHT; ALL PART OF THE GREAT RADIO CONTROVERSY. ALBERT EINSTEIN WAS A PART OF IT. NIKOLA TESLA WAS A PART OF IT. GUGLIELMO MARCONI WAS A FRAUD OF IT. EDWIN ARMSTRONG WAS A PART OF IT. THOMAS EDISON WAS A CROOK OF IT. NATHAN ROSEN WAS A PART OF IT. LEE DE FOREST WAS A PART OF IT. PHILO FARNSWORTH WAS A PART OF IT. DAVID SARNOFF WAS A CROOK OF IT. AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON, TO THIS DAY. Michael Best wrote: Light that travels faster than the speed of light >From Science Blog A team of researchers from the Ecole Polytechnique F?d?rale de Lausanne (EPFL) has successfully demonstrated, for the first time, that it is possible to control the speed of light ? both slowing it down and speeding it up ? in an optical fiber, using off-the-shelf instrumentation in normal environmental conditions. Their results, to be published in the August 22 issue of Applied Physics Letters, could have implications that range from optical computing to the fiber-optic telecommunications industry. On the screen, a small pulse shifts back and forth ? just a little bit. But this seemingly unremarkable phenomenon could have profound technological consequences. It represents the success of Luc Th?venaz and his fellow researchers in the Nanophotonics and Metrology laboratory at EPFL in controlling the speed of light in a simple optical fiber. They were able not only to slow light down by a factor of three from its well ? established speed c of 300 million meters per second in a vacuum, but they've also accomplished the considerable feat of speeding it up ? making light go faster than the speed of light. http://www.scienceblog.com/light.html --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/a91859b7/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 21 10:28:26 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:28:31 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Playing God for Man's benefit! In-Reply-To: <000601c5a601$03828270$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050821172826.22908.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> COOL STUFF. Michael Best wrote: Researchers creating life from scratch 'Synthetic biologists' build with one genetic molecule at a time Updated: 8:48 a.m. ET Aug. 19, 2005 AP- BERKELEY, Calif. - They're called "synthetic biologists" and they boldly claim the ability to make never-before-seen living things, one genetic molecule at a time. They're mixing, matching and stacking DNA's chemical components like microscopic Lego blocks in an effort to make biologically based computers, medicines and alternative energy sources. GOOD! The rapidly expanding field is confounding the taxonomists' centuries-old system of classifying species and raising concerns about the new technology's potential for misuse. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9005023/ CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/0fdb16af/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 21 10:31:45 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:31:50 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Nanotubes Rule! In-Reply-To: <000301c5a5fb$072f93a0$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050821173146.95367.qmail@web50612.mail.yahoo.com> COOL STUFF HERE TOO. ALTHOUGH THE CARCINOGENIC TOPIC THAT JOHN TALKED ABOUT IN HIS REPLY, MIGHT TURN OUT TO BE A PROBLEM, LIKE HE SAID. CLYDE Michael Best wrote: Nanotubes show their strength in numbers Super-strong sheets could be used in future screens and surfaces By Kathleen Wren Science Updated: 4:07 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2005 WASHINGTON - Carbon nanotubes, the wunderkind molecules of the nanoworld, are finally showing strength in numbers. Researchers have now made large nanotube sheets that have many of the same star qualities as the prima donna-like single molecules, bringing the promises of nanotechnology a step closer to reality. The flexible, transparent sheets can conduct electricity and emit light or heat when a voltage is applied, leading their creators to propose that our car windows and the canopies of military aircraft could contain nearly invisible antennae, electrical heaters for defrost, or informative optical displays. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8976160/ --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/0210e39a/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 21 10:41:24 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:41:29 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050820061745.7248.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050821174124.30388.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > As you slip below 5hz, memory starts failing because the nerve > cells have enough time to heal between pulses. And with that, you slip > into sleep. OK. > There is some stuff on brain waves and health at > http://www.sitepsych.com/alt/bioergo/bwaves.html I LIKE THIS WEBPAGE. I forgot to mention, this is not a public set of pages. You can look at them, all the list members can look at them, but they aren't meant for the average person. OK. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/ef3dfcb1/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 21 12:48:49 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 21 12:48:57 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050820074745.43234.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050821194849.93606.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > > As you slip below 5hz, memory starts failing because the nerve > > cells have enough time to heal between pulses. And with that, you slip > > into sleep. > > I GUESS I'D INDUCE BRAIN DEATH, AT A PURE, D.C. E.M. FIELD. Near DC, but DC ends up not producing any stimulus. WELL, D.C. IS FLATLINE! D.C. FLATLINE MIGHT JUST INDUCE BRAIN DEATH, IF USED FOR TOO LONG OF A TIME, AND THEN BODY DEATH FOLLOWING SHORTLY THEREAFTER. > > There is some stuff on brain waves and health at > > http://www.sitepsych.com/alt/bioergo/bwaves.html > I LIKE THAT WEBLINK THE BEST, OUT OF EVERY ONE THAT YOU'VE > FORWARDED, FROM YOUR WEBSITE. Thank you. I wrote that some ten years ago. I ALWAYS THOUGHT THOUGH, THAT ALPHA WAS AT THE VERY LOWEST PORTION OF THE E.M. SPECTRUM, AND NOT THETA; I'M CONFUSED. MY OLD 1970 ALLIED RADIO SHACK DICTIONARY OF ELECTRONICS HAS THE GREEK ALPHABET LISTED IN ITS BACK. BUT ACCORDING TO THE LIST ON THE WEBPAGE ABOVE ON YOUR WEBSITE, IT DOESN'T LIST THE RANGES OF ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT WAVELENGTHS IN THE SAME ORDER AS THE GREEK ALPHABET SYMBOLOGIES ARE LISTED IN THE BACK OF THE OLD ALLIED RADIO SHACK ELECTRONICS DICTIONARY. IT'S A DAMNED SHAME THAT THEY NO LONGER PRODUCE THIS TYPE OF A DICTIONARY FOR EVERYONE OUT THERE, FOR BOTH YOUNG AND OLD ALIKE, WHO HAVE INTERESTS IN ELECTRICITY AND ELECTRONICS TERMINOLOGIES AND FACTS IN THIS MODERN TIME PERIOD; WE ALL JUST GET SOLD CHEAP CHINESE COMMERCIALISM CRAP ASSEMBLY LINE MICROELECTRONICS, FROM THE MODERN RADIO SHACK: RADIO SMACK. > > SINCE YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION COPYRIGHTED, WOULD YOU GIVE ME PERMISSION TO RELAY THE ABOVE WEBLINK TO DIETER DOEPFER; THE OWNER OF THE GERMAN DOEPFER SOUND SYNTHESIZER COMPANY, WHO HELPED TO MAKE KRAFTWERK'S ELECTRONIC AND COMPUTER MUSIC FAMOUS, SO THAT MR. DOEPFER CAN THEN FORWARD THE WEBLINK TO FLORIAN SCHNEIDER, OF KRAFTERK? No. this is private stuff related to my own research. I am sharing it with you because I think it may help you. > IF IT CAN HELP OUT IN MY ALTERNATIVE LYRICS TO RADIOACTIVITY THAT I HAVE WRITTEN. I GAVE THE RIGHTS TO MY ALTERNATIVE LYRICS OF THE SONG: RADIOACTIVITY, TO KRAFTWERK, SINCE I CANNOT DO A PERFECT COVER VERSION OF THAT SONG, TRYING TO LIVE IN THIS FOREVER GO NOWHERE INDUSTRIAL SLUM-WASTELAND, OF TULSA OKLAHOMA; MONEY JUST DOESN'T HAPPEN IN LARGE ENOUGH QUANTITIES, IN SMALL ENOUGH AMOUNTS OF TIME, FOR EVERYONE, ALL OF THE TIME, IN THE SHITTY OF TULSA, AND SHTATE OF OKLAHOMA. I hate rock music!!! I absolutely do not want any of my research associated with rock music! Ever! NO; KRAFTWERK ISN'T NECESSARILY UNDER THE CATEGORY OF ROCK MUSIC. RALF HUETTER AND FLORIAN SCHNEIDER BOTH HAD THEIR TRAINING IN CLASSICAL MUSIC. KRAFTWERK AS THE BAND, STARTED OUT AS COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC, COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTROACOUSTIC MUSIC, AND COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTRONIC MUSIC, AND EVENTUALLY WENT THE WAYS OF BOTH PURELY ELECTRONIC SYNTHETIC ROCK, WITH MELODY AND STYLE, AND ALSO TOWARD TECHNO. PINK FLOYD, IN ENGLAND ON THE OTHER HAND, STARTED OUT, COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME, IN ENGLAND, BUT THEY WENT THE DIRECTION OF ENTIRLEY EXPERIMENTAL ROCK, WITH ELECTRIC GUITARS, ACOUSTIC GUITARS, ACOUSTIC PERCUSSION, AND EXPERIMENTAL SOUND SYNTHESIS AND SYNTHESIZER EQUIPMENT. COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL SOUND SYNTHESIS EQUIPMENT ARE WHERE BOTH KRAFTWERK AND PINK FLOYD RELATE. EXPERIMENTAL SOUND SYNTHESIS. SIMPLIFIED EVEN FURTHER: PINK FLOYD WENT THE DIRECTION OF ROCK. KRAFTWERK WENT THE DIRECTION OF TECHNO. KRAFTWERK THOUGH, HAS THE ABILITY TO CREATE COMPLETELY SYNTHETIC ELECTRONIC COMPUTER MUSIC ELECTRONIC ROCK. PINK FLOYD DOES NOT. I HOPE THIS CLARIFIES THINGS A BIT. NEITHER PINK FLOYD, NOR KRAFTWERK, FIT INTO THE CATEGORY OF HEAVY METAL, THRASH METAL, OR OTHER MODERN HEAVY ROCK MUSICAL STYLES. I enjoy classical music, slow things. My favorites are Satie, Debussey, and a few others who wrote good slow classical music. YEAH, I WISH THERE COULD BE MORE CREATIVE COMPOSERS OUT THERE WHO COULD PRODUCE CLASSICAL MUSIC OF THE STYLES LIKE JOHN WILLIAMS: (PRODUCER OF THE MUSIC TO THE STAR WARS TRILOGY, JURASSIC PARK, AND MANY OTHER MOVIES); JOHN WILLIAMS: (THE CLASSICAL GUITAR PLAYER; (I ALSO LIKE CLASSICAL GUITAR MUSIC TOO); DAVID ARNOLD: (PRODUCER OF THE MUSIC TO THE MOVIE: STARGATE); ALAN SYLVESTRI: (COMPOSER OF THE MUSIC TO THE BACK TO THE FUTURE TRILOGY, AS WELL AS OTHER MUSICAL COMPOSITIONS; (I THINK HE DID THE CLASSICAL COMPOSITIONS FOR THE MOVIE: FOREST GUMP, ALSO); DENNIS MCCARTHY: (COMPOSER OF CLASSICAL MUSIC SCORES FOR MANY OF THE MODERN STAR TREK PRODUCTIONS); JERRY GOLDSMITH: (WHO HAS ALSO DONE THE CLASSICAL MUSIC SCORES FOR MODERN STAR TREK PRODUCTIONS; (MY FAVORITE: STAR TREK PRODUCTION: FIRST CONTACT); BRAD FIEDEL: (COMPOSER OF THE EXPERIMENTAL SYNTHETIC SOUND AND MUSIC FOR THE TERMINATOR TRILOGY); AND GUSTAV HOLST: (HIS MUSICAL SCORE OF THE PLANETS, IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE CLASSICAL MUSIC PRODUCTIONS OF THE PAST); ISAO TOMITA: IN 1976, DID AN ABSOLUTE PERFECT, COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTRONIC MUSIC RENDITION OF THE PLANETS (OF WHICH I OWN A COPY OF, ON C.D.), ORIGINALLY COMPOSED BY GUSTAV HOLST). It's really sad they don't write good harmonious classical music anymore. The keying for modern music just does not resolve tension, it boosts tension. It's crap! HEAVY METAL, AND OTHER MODERN ROCK ARE THERE, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE, BOTH YOUNG AND OLD, ARE FED UP WITH A LOT OF SHIT IN THIS WORLD, AND THOSE STYLES OF MUSIC ARE JUST A NECESSARY FORM OF RELEASE OF TENSION FOR THEM. WHERE WOULD ANY OF US BE, WITHOUT ANY TENSION RELIEF??? ALTHOUGH ON THE OTHER HAND, HEAVY METAL AND OTHER MODERN ROCK, ARE TENSION BUILDERS FOR THOSE OTHERS WHO DON'T CARE TO LISTEN TO THOSE STYLES OF MUSIC. SO IT GOES BOTH WAYS. I HAD TO WAIT UNTIL TODAY, TO REPLY BACK, TO THIS E-MAIL IN FULL DETAIL, INSTEAD OF YESTERDAY. I WENT TO THE LIBRARY FOR A SHORT TIME YESTERDAY, AFTER WORK, TYPED UP THE ORIGINAL TWO OR SO E-MAILS THAT I SENT YESTERDAY AFTERNOON, THEN WENT HOME, AND SLEPT ALL AFTERNOON, AND ALL OF THE WAY THROUGH THE NIGHT. I WAS SO DAMNED TIRED YESTERDAY AFTERNOON, THAT I COULD HARDLY FUNCTION, AFTER WORK. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/8a3c3581/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 21 13:08:18 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 21 13:08:22 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050821194849.93606.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 21, 2005 12:48:49 PM Message-ID: <20050821200818.10365.qmail@mall-net.com> > > I GUESS I'D INDUCE BRAIN DEATH, AT A PURE, D.C. E.M. FIELD. > > Near DC, but DC ends up not producing any stimulus. > > WELL, D.C. IS FLATLINE! > D.C. FLATLINE MIGHT JUST INDUCE BRAIN DEATH, IF USED FOR TOO LONG OF A TIME, > AND THEN BODY DEATH FOLLOWING SHORTLY THEREAFTER. Nope. Most things just ignore signals ouy of the bandwidth of their sensitivity. With low frequency magnetics, it appears that the transition itself is the signal, not the polarity. > Thank you. I wrote that some ten years ago. > I ALWAYS THOUGHT THOUGH, THAT ALPHA WAS AT THE VERY LOWEST PORTION OF THE E.M. SPECTRUM, AND NOT THETA; I'M CONFUSED. Alpha is the strongest signal, hence Alpha, as in Alpha male. Alpha is what they do in Transcendental Mediation. Theta is what they do in Zazen meditation. > MY OLD 1970 ALLIED RADIO SHACK DICTIONARY OF ELECTRONICS HAS THE > GREEK ALPHABET LISTED IN ITS BACK. > BUT ACCORDING TO THE LIST ON THE WEBPAGE ABOVE ON YOUR WEBSITE, IT > DOESN'T LIST THE RANGES OF ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT WAVELENGTHS IN THE SAME ORDER AS THE GREEK ALPHABET SYMBOLOGIES ARE LISTED IN THE BACK OF THE OLD ALLIED RADIO SHACK ELECTRONICS DICTIONARY. It depends on the order in which they were discovered, etc. Not everything makes sense when compared with today's knowledge. > It's really sad they don't write good harmonious classical music > anymore. The keying for modern music just does not resolve tension, it > boosts tension. It's crap! HEAVY METAL, AND OTHER MODERN ROCK ARE THERE, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE, BOTH YOUNG AND OLD, ARE FED UP WITH A LOT OF SHIT IN THIS WORLD, AND THOSE STYLES OF MUSIC ARE JUST A NECESSARY FORM OF RELEASE OF TENSION FOR THEM. > WHERE WOULD ANY OF US BE, WITHOUT ANY TENSION RELIEF??? > ALTHOUGH ON THE OTHER HAND, HEAVY METAL AND OTHER MODERN ROCK, ARE TENSION BUILDERS FOR THOSE OTHERS WHO DON'T CARE TO LISTEN TO THOSE STYLES OF MUSIC. I do not remeber exactly how this was explained by a musician I know; but aside from differences in beat, the tonal sequences of most modern music are quite diffent from those of classical. The effect was markedly evident when he played a few chords. I have heard some reworked classical by some rock band. It sounded just like their regular trash despite the slightly slower beat. > I WENT TO THE LIBRARY FOR A SHORT TIME YESTERDAY, AFTER WORK, TYPED UP THE ORIGINAL TWO OR SO E-MAILS THAT I SENT YESTERDAY AFTERNOON, THEN WENT HOME, AND SLEPT ALL AFTERNOON, AND ALL OF THE WAY THROUGH THE NIGHT. Good for you! -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Sun Aug 21 13:18:59 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Sun Aug 21 13:19:04 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] More on unintelligent design In-Reply-To: <003501c5a5b1$7ffcde40$6501a8c0@mikey> from "Michael Best" at Aug 20, 2005 02:03:41 PM Message-ID: <20050821201859.17310.qmail@mall-net.com> > Now comes word that a little-known government office has accused the > Smithsonian of retaliating against a scientist who slipped an article > promoting intelligent design into an obscure journal that has only very > loose connections to the Smithsonian. That judgment, by the United = The best counter to "intelligent design", is to say that the design of a system which picks the best design, is the most intelligent design there is. That system is called Evolution. Why can't we say that the Creation of Evolution is an intelligent design. Confuse the beswangers out o' dem bubblethumpers. -J- (C) 2005, javilk@mall-net.com ------------------ www.mall-net.com/javilk --- Laugh at yourself, Our Creator loves company -- and You! --------------- --- After all, we wouldn't want our Creator to cancel the show, would we? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. All rights reserved. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com http://www.mall-net.com/javilk/ From clydelofton at yahoo.com Sun Aug 21 13:49:36 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Sun Aug 21 13:49:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] REVISED. In-Reply-To: <20050821194849.93606.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050821204936.52646.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: I hate rock music!!! I absolutely do not want any of my research associated with rock music! Ever! NO; KRAFTWERK ISN'T NECESSARILY UNDER THE CATEGORY OF ROCK MUSIC. RALF HUETTER AND FLORIAN SCHNEIDER BOTH HAD THEIR TRAINING IN CLASSICAL MUSIC. KRAFTWERK, AS THE BAND, STARTED OUT AS COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL MUSIC, COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTROACOUSTIC MUSIC, AND COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTRONIC MUSIC, AND EVENTUALLY WENT THE WAYS OF BOTH PURELY ELECTRONIC SYNTHETIC ROCK, WITH CREATIVITY, MELODY, LYRICS, AND STYLE, BUT MAINLY WENT IN THE DIRECTION OF TECHNO. PINK FLOYD, IN ENGLAND ON THE OTHER HAND, STARTED OUT, COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME, BUT THEY WENT THE DIRECTION OF ENTIRLEY EXPERIMENTAL ROCK, WITH ELECTRIC GUITARS, ACOUSTIC GUITARS, ACOUSTIC PERCUSSION, AND EXPERIMENTAL SOUND SYNTHESIS AND SYNTHESIZER EQUIPMENT. COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL SOUND SYNTHESIS EQUIPMENT ARE WHERE BOTH KRAFTWERK AND PINK FLOYD RELATE. EXPERIMENTAL SOUND SYNTHESIS. SIMPLIFIED EVEN FURTHER: PINK FLOYD WENT THE DIRECTION OF ROCK. KRAFTWERK WENT THE DIRECTION OF TECHNO. KRAFTWERK HAS THE ABILITY TO RE-CREATE (REMIX) THEIR TECHNO TUNES INTO COMPLETELY SLOWED DOWN, SYNTHETIC MELODIOUS ELECTRONIC COMPUTER MUSIC-ELECTRONIC ROCK, IF THEY COULD JUST SLOW, AND MELLOW DOWN SOME OF THEIR FAST PACED, FAST TEMPO'ED, HYPED UP TECHNO/HOUSE STYLED TUNES. KRAFTWERK HAS THE ABILITY TO CREATE COMPLETELY SYNTHETIC ELECTRONIC SOUNDSCAPES, WITH MELODY, INTO BOTH TECHNO, AS WELL AS PURELY ELECTRONIC SYNTHETIC COMPUTER MUSIC ROCK. PINK FLOYD HOWEVER, DOESN'T HAVE THAT ABILITY. I HOPE THIS CLARIFIES THINGS A BIT. NEITHER PINK FLOYD, NOR KRAFTWERK, FIT INTO THE CATEGORY OF HEAVY METAL, THRASH METAL, OR ANY OTHER MODERN HEAVY ROCK MUSICAL STYLES. I enjoy classical music, slow things. My favorites are Satie, Debussey, and a few others who wrote good slow classical music. YEAH, I WISH THERE COULD BE MORE CREATIVE COMPOSERS OUT THERE TOO, WHO COULD PRODUCE CLASSICAL MUSIC OF THE STYLES LIKE JOHN WILLIAMS: (PRODUCER OF THE MUSIC TO THE STAR WARS TRILOGY, JURASSIC PARK, AND MANY OTHER MOVIES); ALSO THE OTHER JOHN WILLIAMS: (THE CLASSICAL GUITAR PLAYER; (I ALSO LIKE CLASSICAL GUITAR MUSIC TOO); DAVID ARNOLD: (PRODUCER OF THE MUSIC TO THE MOVIE: STARGATE); ALAN SYLVESTRI: (COMPOSER OF THE MUSIC TO THE BACK TO THE FUTURE TRILOGY, AS WELL AS OTHER MUSICAL COMPOSITIONS; (I THINK ALAN SYLVESTRI DID THE CLASSICAL COMPOSITIONS FOR THE MOVIE: FOREST GUMP, ALSO); DENNIS MCCARTHY: (COMPOSER OF CLASSICAL MUSIC SCORES FOR MANY OF THE MODERN STAR TREK PRODUCTIONS); JERRY GOLDSMITH: (WHO HAS ALSO DONE THE CLASSICAL MUSIC SCORES FOR MODERN STAR TREK PRODUCTIONS AS WELL; (MY FAVORITE: STAR TREK PRODUCTION: FIRST CONTACT); BRAD FIEDEL: (COMPOSER OF THE EXPERIMENTAL SYNTHETIC SOUNDS AND MUSIC FOR THE TERMINATOR TRILOGY); AND GUSTAV HOLST: (HIS MUSICAL SCORE, OF THE PLANETS, IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE CLASSICAL MUSIC PRODUCTIONS OF THE PAST); ISAO TOMITA, IN 1976, DID AN ABSOLUTE PERFECT, COMPLETELY EXPERIMENTAL ELECTRONIC MUSIC RENDITION OF THE PLANETS (OF WHICH I OWN A COPY OF, ON C.D.), ORIGINALLY COMPOSED BY GUSTAV HOLST). ISAO TOMITA'S ELECTRONIC MUSIC PRODUCTION OF THE PLANETS IS NO LONGER IN PRINT AND MANUFACTURE, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THOUGH I WISH IT STILL WAS, FOR MANY OTHERS WHO ARE OUT THERE, WHO ALSO ENJOY EXPERIMENTAL AND ETHEREAL ELECTRONIC, AND ELECTROACOUSTIC MUSIC. RADIOACTIVITY IS MY FAVORITE KRAFTWERK ALBUM PRODUCTION, WHICH THEY PRODUCED IN THE YEAR THAT I WAS BORN: 1975. I NEED TO GO GET SOME LUNCH. LATER, CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/a79c9aaf/attachment-0001.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Sun Aug 21 14:27:01 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Sun Aug 21 14:27:36 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] More on unintelligent design Message-ID: <003201c5a697$1224c7c0$6501a8c0@mikey> Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 20:18:59 +0000 (GMT) From: javilk@mall-net.com > The best counter to "intelligent design", is to say that the design > of a system which picks the best design, is the most intelligent design > there is. That system is called Evolution. > Why can't we say that the Creation of Evolution is an intelligent > design. Confuse the beswangers out o' dem bubblethumpers. This has been my position for many years. I see our Creator in Darwin's theory! How else could it have happened? Look at the intelligence needed to design a system where random variations aggregate to produce Home sapiens! THIS is the penultimate Miracle! The PROOF of a Creator! However, there are many zealots who are quite uncomfortable with the thought that "Faith" is not needed, that there may well be a scientific interpretation of God. But what has Man's science been for all of history? It has been the search for God's Truth of the Universe, unbiased by personal belief. "Science is religion distilled to mathematics." (MB) -MB From Vesta111 at aol.com Sun Aug 21 23:56:02 2005 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 21 23:56:15 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pharmacists Speak Message-ID: <12e.6482b1f8.303ad102@aol.com> In a message dated 8/19/2005 11:16:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mbest@triad.rr.com writes: No- we have no responsibility for anyone's salvation other than our own. We are required to show them the path to salvation, but it is their choice to accept or deny it. We will be judged only on our own actions, not the actions of others. We will be judged only on our own actions, not the actions of others. This is the ideal thought and way of life. Unfortunately this is seldom if ever the case. People are judged by the others they hang out, work, or play with. The Law of the land says that if you are with someone who commits a crime, weather or not you do anything, you are as guilty as the person who did the crime. There is guilty by association, only 60 or so years ago the whole country went crazy with the so called communist hunt here in America. People from the local doctors down to the neighborhood grocers were placed on the hot seat. Actors, writers, directors in the film industry were destroyed. Today, if you work for a stock broker who goes to jail, what are your chances of being employed any place in that industry ???? Family, you live in a small town and your 4 th. cousin 3 times removed is placed on a sex offenders list, anyone remotely related by blood or even having gone to school with the cousin is looked at with a jaundiced eye. People are judged fairly or not by the company they keep, that is why there are allot of us who choose to keep company with ourselves and a good dog. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050821/a2b06ca4/attachment.html From FMoore at POCO.com Mon Aug 22 07:05:53 2005 From: FMoore at POCO.com (Moore, Frank) Date: Mon Aug 22 07:06:00 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler Message-ID: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468B01@pzisexch.poco.com> Well, John... Your experiences are entirely counter to mine. I've used e-mail for about 20 years now... And have used HTML whenever possible since it became available. I prefer the look and greater customizability it offers. But I have also been extremely cautious and careful about what I open. I scan any message that looks like it might contain a virus. And I have also never had a infection of a virus; trojan; or any other e-mail nasty. And between three addys on Verizon and one at work... I get perhaps ten spam e-mails a month. Most people I know who get tons of spam have been less than judicious about giving out their addys. The only addy I have that gets much spam is Hotmail. But that's why I have that account and use it for communications I'm leery of. If Vesta is not e-mail savvy, he may not know where the options are to change the default settings. Especially with AOL. It's been a long time since I used AOL, so I don't recall where they are. Perhaps one of his children can walk him through it. But the main point behind my original message was to let Vesta know that HTML is not a major issue for most people. All members of the List have the same rights. And I really must say that I found your original diatribe on the matter more than a wee bit rude and abusive. Frank F. Moore Project Scientist Poco Graphite, Inc. 300 Old Greenwood Rd. Decatur, TX 76234 Ph: 940-393-4360 Fax: 940-393-8383 FMoore@poco.com -----Original Message----- From: mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG [mailto:mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG] On Behalf Of javilk@mall-net.com Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:18 PM To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler > I think the problem is on his end... not yours. Your e-mails to the > ListServer always look fine to me... And I have no problem seeing the > passages you have quoted from others. They have a blue line that runs > down the left margin. I do notice that they are HTML format, which is > fine to me. I prefer e-mail in HTML. Perhaps Javilk has his server > set to "Plain Text" only? If the receiving mail server automatically > converts HTML to Plain Text, it may jumble things around a bit. All the lists I've used over the last 12 years blocked HTML mail. That includes the web consultant's list, folks who write in HTML for a living. Why? Use to be just because it was excessive; now it's another way of getting viruses. So yes, this computer geek and webmaster does not have HTML mail enabled. Indeed, I am using a mail handler that is incapable of hanling HTML, atchooments etc. And with that, I've not caught any viruses. Ever. (Though it helps that I'm running Linux.) Plus, not all devices out there handle HTML Mail. Of those that do, not everyone enables it for security reasons. And since almost all spam these days is HTML mail, many filter on that! Since I have been getting several hundred spams per hour (and blocking most of them), I usually handle my e-mail on the server without downloading to my machine. As do many with similar situations. That means a simple mail handler which does not do HTML. This is the only HTML Mail source that I allow through my mail filter. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists From FMoore at POCO.com Mon Aug 22 07:10:36 2005 From: FMoore at POCO.com (Moore, Frank) Date: Mon Aug 22 07:10:40 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Pencil Lead Message-ID: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468B06@pzisexch.poco.com> Good question. Must be one of those "traditional usage" type things. People rarely stop to think about what's in common everyday things, such as pencils. And since even now, I suppose most folks grow up hearing them referred to as "lead pencils"... They just assume that that's what they are and what they contain. ________________________________ From: mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG [mailto:mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG] On Behalf Of Vesta111@aol.com Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:31 PM To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler By the way, can you tell me why if I were to wander around the campus of most colleges and ask random students what is the material in a pencil they will answer Lead ? I would not ask in any college in Cal. as the answers could cause insanity in pollsters. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/39b56fe9/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 22 10:48:03 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 22 10:48:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler In-Reply-To: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468B01@pzisexch.poco.com> from "Moore, Frank" at Aug 22, 2005 09:05:53 AM Message-ID: <20050822174803.94581.qmail@mall-net.com> > Your experiences are entirely counter to mine. I've used e-mail > for about 20 years now... And have used HTML whenever possible since it > became available. I prefer the look and greater customizability it > offers. But I have also been extremely cautious and careful about what > I open. I scan any message that looks like it might contain a virus. In other words, you have used e-mail very little. > And I have also never had a infection of a virus; trojan; or any other > e-mail nasty. And between three addys on Verizon and one at work... I > get perhaps ten spam e-mails a month. Most people I know who get tons of > spam have been less than judicious about giving out their addys. The > only addy I have that gets much spam is Hotmail. But that's why I have > that account and use it for communications I'm leery of. I have been "out there" with a lot of pages drawing business to me via e-mail and web interfaces on several sites. To do that, one does have to put one's e-mail address out there. Not that it really matters to spammers anymore. Most just make up addresses based on web directories, common names, and other such nonsense. Aside from writing four to ten pieces on several lists a day, I develop web pages, work on web strategies for clients, write programs that respond to people, etc. At one point, we had over 10,000 subscribers to a set of mailing lists which I created. Several thousand keep bugging me to re-start those mailing lists. Of course, the dot-com crash took its toll. I earn my living on the web. But it's not what it use to be! (And there are a lot more distractions out here than in civilization.) That's part of why I have, at times, seen over 1,000 spams per hour flood my way, crashing our mail handlers, etc. All it takes, is a few people to get a virus, and we get hammered with viruses in the mail. We have since improved matters, but I keep finding customer e-mails in the second level trash cache. Oh, and I have used HTML mail on occasion. It is the best way of determining whether someone on the other end has looked at your e-mail and then connecting him or her to the visitors on your site so that you can know what they are interested in, how long they look at your content, etc. etc. etc. In other words, peeking into potential customer's minds so you can categorize them into psychographic categories and tailor your sales pitch to them in subsequent e-mails. I don't do the last part. I've been offered cash to do that for others, but refused as it leads to spamming. And that does not even go to what one can do with Java and Javascript, which I keep disabled on my browser except when absolutely necessary. That's one of the reasons I discard most HTML mail. It's the first cut on the spam filters. And those which I do read, I read as plain ASCII text to keep something from fetching an invisible image and linking my address to my visits or doing other nasty things. > But the main point behind my original message was to let Vesta > know that HTML is not a major issue for most people. All members of the Most people don't know how HTML mail is used against them. Then again, most people are totally ignorant of almost everything anyway, with small exception of what they do at work. And even then, they are mostly unuse to thinking logically about how things work and how they interact. That's why they have to hire consultants like me. (Not that I know a lot; but I can figure new things out a lot faster than most people.) It's really sad; but it seems like the really smart people don't breed very well. We do see a reduction in cranial size in other species as well, like dogs and cats. > List have the same rights. And I really must say that I found your > original diatribe on the matter more than a wee bit rude and abusive. I am sorry you don't understand the realities of what is going on out there. The internet is now a very hostile place. 90%+ spam, and most viruses and a lot of spam masquerading as e-mail from people you correspond with, sent by armies of zombie machines hired by spammers from virus writers. Much is because the average person is seduced by HTML mail and useless glitz. The Unix community learned very rapidly in the mid 80's from the Morris worm. IBM learned it a little later with another worm. Apple managed to clean up most of its virus holes in about five years of it being out in public photocopy shops. But the Windows community can't seem to grasp this. That is why the proliferation of worms and viruses that this stupidity allows is costing the American economy several billion dollars a year. -javilk- mall-net.com ------------------- IMAGINEERING -------------------- --------------- Every click, a vote. ---------------- ----- Do people vote for, or against your pages? ---- -- What people want: http://www.SitePsych.com/free -- ----------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2005, Copyright retained. All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 10:50:45 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 10:50:55 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: NASA Tech Briefs INSIDER 08/22/05 In-Reply-To: <20050822080910.GA20741@listserv.abpi.net> Message-ID: <20050822175045.43046.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> nasatechbriefs@LISTSERV.ABPI.NET wrote:In this edition, sponsored by Keyence, igus Inc., & Autodesk: * New Structures Enable Better Light Transmission * Report Evaluates New Automated Soil Sampling Device * NASA Spinoff Treats Athletic & Post-Op Injuries * Portable Device Aids Balance Disorder Sufferers * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sponsor Message Today's Most Capable 3-D Video Microscope System Keyence's VHX-100 Digital Video Microscope provides sharp 3-D images up to 5000x magnification. A handheld, 18-mega-pixel resolution, CCD camera provides 20 times the depth-of-field of conventional microscopes, even with large surface variations. No cutting or processing of targets is required. Includes "in-the-lens" lighting, 3-D profiling/measurement, plus numerous measurement functions. The VHX-100 is an excellent tool for R&D, QC, QA, and inspection, and reduces observation time by up to 75%. Ideal for group viewing and discussion of images. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * CONTROLLING LIGHT A discovery by Princeton researchers could be used to develop new structures for controlling the transmission of light. The structures would work like an elbow joint in plumbing, enabling light to make sharp turns as it travels through photonic circuits. Fiber-optic cables cannot currently bend to transport light at sharp angles. Data in the light pulses must be converted back into electrical signals before being sorted and redirected to their destinations. The researchers proved for the first time that quasicrystal structures are better than ordinary crystals for trapping and redirecting light because their structure is more nearly spherical. A quasicrystal is an unusual form of solid composed of two building blocks, or groups of atoms, that repeat regularly throughout the structure with two different spacings. Their model showed that the quasicrystal design could block light from escaping no matter which direction it traveled. Read the complete story at: http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A2 NEW TECHNOLOGY REPORT Title: Powerful Automated Soil Sampling Device for Agricultural Use Category: Agriculture Sub-category: Plant Health Reviewer: Lawrence Coffee Unique sampling device is used in automated agricultural soil condition mapping systems. The apparatus takes soil samples at rapid speeds, while continuing forward movement. Fragments enter the instrument, which correctly scans, identifies soil, and determines nutritional value, therefore, resulting in better soil usage and crop rotation. With proper crop management systems supported by this tool, future farming tactics will have substantially improved production of food-stocks. This means less waste, increased profits, and more savings for consumers. Access this report and others at: http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A3 The online technology exchange launched by NextTechs Technologies, LLC spans 153 research disciplines in 26 technology sectors, representing 325 companies and 41 industries. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sponsor Message Say Goodbye to Lubrication with iglide(R) Plastic Bearings iglide(R) plastic bearings from igus(R) are a cost-effective, lubrication- free, and maintenance-free alternative to bronze. 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As a holder of 19 patents covering inventions in restraint, space suit components, heat transfer, solar energy conversion, food preservation, and medical equipment, Elkins founded CoolSystems, Inc., based on his revolutionary findings that space suit technology could treat athletic injuries and offer therapeutic benefits to those who suffer from Multiple Sclerosis (MS). The products manufactured by CoolSystems are directly spun from the liquid-cooled garments worn by NASA astronauts. In June 2002, CoolSystems introduced its first product, the Game Ready Accelerated Recovery System, which combines space suit technology, medical research, and sports savvy to speed up the healing of athletic and post-operative injuries. Using patented ergonomic wraps and an adjustable control unit, the system is the first sports therapy product on the market to simultaneously provide deep tissue cooling therapy and intermittent compression, according to the company. Read the complete story at: http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A5 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sponsor Message Accelerate design creation by 60% with Autodesk InventorR: the #1 best-selling 3D design software. Learn to do your job better and faster with Lynn Allen's free Webcast. Get tips on saving steps and eliminating mundane tasks. Have more time to create and design! Register now and get a free trial. http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A6 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * BALANCE DEVICE A portable device has been created to help sufferers of balance disorders avoid falls by providing the brain more input. "What the brain normally does is get information from vision, inner ear, and from your feet," said researcher Marco Dozza. "[The brain] is continuously integrating this information to have the best estimation of your position and movement, in order to apply the best strategy to keep balance," explained Dozza. "When one of these senses is not there, balance is more challenging and the chance of falling increases." Worn on the belt, the device contains sensors that detect when the wearer sways outside a vertical "safe zone." A computer converts that information into musical tones played through headphones, which get louder the further they sway from vertical. Stereo sound is used to indicate the direction of the sway. Patients learn that different tones correspond to different directions of sway, allowing them to correct their posture before falling over. With enough training, the tones replace missing balance information that the brain normally receives from a nerve in the inner ear. Read the complete story at: http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A7 - Ashli K. Barbarito, Associate Editor Send your comments to me at ashli@abpi.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * NOW IN THE NTB STORE SMART SENSORS This book provides a wealth of information from theoretical and practical perspectives. Individual learning modules include sensor technologies, sensor manufacturing, differentiating between smart sensors and smart sensing, sensors and artificial intelligence, and much more. $88.00 http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A8 STARRY NIGHT SOFTWARE Explore the universe from your desktop with Starry Night Enthusiast. Travel 20,000 light years away and view 2,500,000 stars and deep space objects. Check out the view from the International Space Station. Stunning OpenGL graphics. Includes over 2-1/2 hours of video multimedia on CD-ROM, a bonus DVD featuring dramatic visualizations of astronomical phenomena, handy star charts for exploring outside, and weekly sky-gazing suggestions. $69.95 http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A9 FUEL CELL TECHNOLOGY HANDBOOK The first comprehensive, state-of-the-art overview of fuel cell principles, technologies, and applications. Explores automotive, stationary power generation, and portable power applications, including in-depth coverage of hydrogen generation and storage. Includes Web links that will keep you on top of fast-breaking business developments. $99.95 http://link.abpi.net/l.php?20050822A10 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Please let your colleagues know they too can receive the INSIDER free of charge simply by sending an e-mail message to the address Listserv@listserv.abpi.net with the text SUBSCRIBE Insider Firstname Lastname as the only text on the first line of the message body. For information on how your company can sponsor future editions of the INSIDER, e-mail joe@abpi.net . Copyright (c) 2005 Associated Business Publications Intl, Inc. This e-mail has been sent to NTB INSIDER subscribers. If you do not wish to receive these messages in the future, please send an e-mail message to the address Listserv@listserv.abpi.net with the text SIGNOFF Insider as the only text on the first line of the message body. --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/6a384c20/attachment.html From FMoore at POCO.com Mon Aug 22 11:16:00 2005 From: FMoore at POCO.com (Moore, Frank) Date: Mon Aug 22 11:16:05 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler Message-ID: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468B9E@pzisexch.poco.com> >>>In other words, you have used e-mail very little. <<< Au Contraire >>>I am sorry you don't understand the realities of what is going on out there. The internet is now a very hostile place. 90%+ spam, and most viruses and a lot of spam masquerading as e-mail from people you correspond with, sent by armies of zombie machines hired by spammers from virus writers<<< I am quite cognizant of "what goes on out there", thank-you very much. I participate regularly on several technology and PC bulletin forums and am a Moderator at a couple. While IT isn't my primary function... I cold hardly had had a 28+ year career as an Analytical Chemist utilizing a plethora of state-of-the-art instrumentation without being fairly well versed with computers. I still contend.... With the several dozen or so people I know quite well who make their living in the Cyber World... That your experiences are not the norm. Frank F. Moore Project Scientist Poco Graphite, Inc. 300 Old Greenwood Rd. Decatur, TX 76234 Ph: 940-393-4360 Fax: 940-393-8383 FMoore@poco.com From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 11:31:15 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 11:32:10 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: IAN Inside Products for August 22, 2005 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050822183115.80329.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Instrumentation & Automation News wrote:.text { FONT-SIZE: 12px; LINE-HEIGHT: 17px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}.head1 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12px; LINE-HEIGHT: 17px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: #000000;}A:link { color: 490d08; text-decoration: none;}A:hover { COLOR: 7d7115; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.text2 { FONT-SIZE: 11px; LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}.date { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #669900; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.subhead { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #cc0000; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.head2 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 11px; LINE-HEIGHT: 17px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}.subhead2 { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #cc9900; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.footer { FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10px; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif}a:visited { color: #666666; text-decoration: none;}.toc { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #669900; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.tocx { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 14px; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: italic; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.sponser { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: 490d08; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; TEXT-DECORATION: none}.textitalic { FONT-SIZE: 12px; LINE-HEIGHT: 17px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: italic;}.text2italic { FONT-SIZE: 11px; LINE-HEIGHT: 15px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-style: italic;}August 22, 2005 ? Reflective sensor assembly ? Motor protector/thermal cut-out ? Humidity/temperature data logger ? Galvanically isolated power supply ? Bench scale ? Valve position sensor ? USB-equipped devices ? Solar-powered wireless sensor ? Automation News New Product OfferingsReflective sensor assembly Reflective sensor assembly is designed to detect color differences in liquids and solids electronically. Read moreMotor protector/thermal cut-out Model EP42P self-hold motor protector and thermal cut-out provide overheat protection in fractional motors, appliances, lighting equipment, transformers, solenoids, battery chargers, power tools, and electronic systems. Read moreHumidity/temperature data logger EL-USB-2 standalone humidity and temperature data logger with direct USB interface records relative humidity from 0 to 100% and temperature from -35 to 80?C, and calculates dewpoint. Read moreGalvanically isolated power supply OnPower 60-1, an intelligent 60-W, triple-output galvanically isolated PC/104 Bus DC/DC power supply meets the demanding requirements of aircraft, ship, and industrial installations. Read moreBench scale Xpress bench scales come in two models, Xpress Economy and Xpress Standard, for over/under check weighing applications. Read moreValve position sensor NI 4-DSU35-2DNETX5-H1150 valve position sensor allows direct connection to DeviceNet field bus networks in harsh industrial environments. Read moreUSB-equipped devices USB-COM-M series of ready-made metal-box-housed solutions let RS-232 serial devices talk to newer USB PC?s, most of which have no serial ports. Read moreSolar-powered wireless sensor STM100 solar-powered wireless sensor was designed to overcome such challenges to efficient wireless sensing as power-hungry radios and battery deficiencies such as limited life, maintenance, and disposal. Read more --------------------------------- NI: MXI-Express, DAQ for PCI Express, ADI Blackfin tools, ADI simulation Industrial control indices surge Emerson automates Shanghai petrochemical complex Parker Hannifin buying domnick hunter to expand filtration, separation business Siemens: new CNC platform, services, contract Dover Corp. buys Colder Products Co. Honeywell agrees to acquire Lebow Ethernet upswing underscores PTO meeting NEMA hails passage of U.S. comprehensive energy bill Return to top Sponsored by Pulizzi AC Power Distribution & Control Systems AC power distribution and control systems for mainframe computer systems are rack mounted and provide circuit breaker protection, EMI and RFI filtering, spike/surge protection, remote power ON/OFF, system-remote reboot, emergency shutdown, redundant power, sequential power up/down and connection to additional systems down-line. Domestic and international configurations for systems OEMs and system integrators are available. 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URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/46c58320/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 11:35:44 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 11:35:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. Message-ID: <20050822183544.69626.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> WEBLINK TO SHARE: 1. http://www.libertydollar.org/default.asp?REFERER=NRC79506 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/3735d6c4/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 13:23:08 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 13:23:13 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: FOR JAVILK. In-Reply-To: <20050820052938.79240.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050822202308.722.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > I WORKED REALLY HARD THE OTHER DAY, TO FURTHER ALONG MY SIXTH LIST OF > REMINDER WEBLINKS, BUT I'M NOT CERTAIN THAT I'M READY ENOUGH YET, AT > THIS TIME, TO SHARE THEM WITH OTHERS, AS THERE ARE MANY OTHER > WEBSITES THAT I'D STILL LIKE TO INCLUDE, AND IT WEARS ME OUT, HAVING TO > GO THROUGH ALL OF THE WEBLINKS, JUST TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THEY ARE > ALL EASILY ACCESSIBLE TO OTHERS. > IT IS A BIG ENERGY DRAINER FOR ME TO SPEND ALL OF THE TIME, COMPILING ALL > OF THOSE WEBLINKS TOGETHER, INTO ONE, COMPLETE, GARGANTUAN WHOLE. Yes. I built a web site around that concept. Mall-Net. Sad that fades... Link rot, they call it. People move on, change the focus of their web sites, and before you know it, your links are broken. Time to pave Mall-Net's hot list area and link stuff over and start again. Want me to put your links up at Mall-Net? YEAH; I'D LIKE TO SEE ALL OF THE LISTS OF WEBLINKS AT YOUR WEBSITE. THAT'D BE COOL. ALTHOUGH I'D LIKE TO GO BACK THROUGH ALL FIVE OF THE ONE'S THAT I ALREADY COMPLETED, AND DO SOME MORE EDITING. RIGHT NOW, I'M TIRED, AND SO I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL HAVE ANY ENERGY, LATER ON TODAY, TO GO THROUGH ALL OF MY LISTS, AND RE-SAVE THEM, SIDE BY SIDE. I NEED TO REVISE THEM A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/939c7809/attachment.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Mon Aug 22 14:10:38 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Mon Aug 22 14:10:48 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. In-Reply-To: <20050822190001.EF42B3982A@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <008301c5a75d$f29fe750$6501a8c0@mikey> > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: clyde lofton > > WEBLINK TO SHARE: > > 1. http://www.libertydollar.org/default.asp?REFERER=NRC79506 This is rich! Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, subverting the tax collector, but exactly HOW are we sure that the coins are really .999 silver and he has metal reserves to cover every paper note? His good word? Then there is another question- what makes one ounce of silver worth $10? Last I checked it was worth only about 75% of that. The way I see it- The coins are worth $7.50, which he sells for $10, a 33% markup. The paper money may or may not be worth the value of the paper, ditto for his "web cash." So, at worst, you receive $30 worth of silver for $107! And he could be telling the truth, but not quite! What if he holds futures contracts, on margin, instead of real silver? Just like banks, it is unlikely that all the printed notes will be presented for redemption at once, so he only needs to hold a relatively small amount of silver to make this scam work. Lots of ways I see a clever con artist can fleece the flock here. -MB From mbest at triad.rr.com Mon Aug 22 14:10:45 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Mon Aug 22 14:10:51 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. In-Reply-To: <20050822190001.EF42B3982A@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <008401c5a75d$f673d2b0$6501a8c0@mikey> > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: clyde lofton > > WEBLINK TO SHARE: > > 1. http://www.libertydollar.org/default.asp?REFERER=NRC79506 This is rich! Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, subverting the tax collector, but exactly HOW are we sure that the coins are really .999 silver and he has metal reserves to cover every paper note? His good word? Then there is another question- what makes one ounce of silver worth $10? Last I checked it was worth only about 75% of that. The way I see it- The coins are worth $7.50, which he sells for $10, a 33% markup. The paper money may or may not be worth the value of the paper, ditto for his "web cash." So, at worst, you receive $30 worth of silver for $107! And he could be telling the truth, but not quite! What if he holds futures contracts, on margin, instead of real silver? Just like banks, it is unlikely that all the printed notes will be presented for redemption at once, so he only needs to hold a relatively small amount of silver to make this scam work. Lots of ways I see a clever con artist can fleece the flock here. -MB From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 22 16:14:03 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 22 16:14:07 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mail Handler In-Reply-To: <99E207AC8BBAC24389B2640E9F3C974701468B9E@pzisexch.poco.com> from "Moore, Frank" at Aug 22, 2005 01:16:00 PM Message-ID: <20050822231403.25226.qmail@mall-net.com> > >>>I am sorry you don't understand the realities of what is going on out > there. The internet is now a very hostile place. 90%+ spam, and most > viruses and a lot of spam masquerading as e-mail from people you > I am quite cognizant of "what goes on out there", thank-you very much. > I participate regularly on several technology and PC bulletin forums and > am a Moderator at a couple. While IT isn't my primary function... I > I still contend.... With the several dozen or so people I know quite > well who make their living in the Cyber World... That your experiences > are not the norm. When you have web pages that get 200 - 400 hits per day, (and sometimes, Rarely, over a thousand hits per hour) and sites that get 3,000 - 5,000 hits per day, or lists with 10,000 members; then things change. Parts for the better, and parts for the worse. You end up in more people's address lists, and so get more viruses and spam headed your when they get knocked over. We see a lot of other interesting stuff in the logs I analyze, both on our sites and for various clients. I know some people get very little spam. I know some who get about as much spam as I do. Most of my smaller clients are in the 1,000 - 5,000 spam per day range. ISPs are working harder now, realizing they lose people due to spam, so there is a lot more "black hole" list based filtering; but some of the black holes end up being important sources as people do get accounts at hotmail, etc. That has helped cut my received spam down. But it's still bad out there, and HTML mail with serialized pictures is used by a lot of places to verify they've hit a live one. Last year, one of the real Gurus I know brought a machine up. He was getting random name spam within 45 minutes of turning the machine on. -javilk- mall-net.com ------------------- IMAGINEERING -------------------- --------------- Every click, a vote. ---------------- ----- Do people vote for, or against your pages? ---- -- What people want: http://www.SitePsych.com/free -- ----------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2005, Copyright retained. All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 16:57:57 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 16:58:01 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. In-Reply-To: <008301c5a75d$f29fe750$6501a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050822235757.53179.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> ALRIGHT. Michael Best wrote: > Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) > From: clyde lofton > > WEBLINK TO SHARE: > > 1. http://www.libertydollar.org/default.asp?REFERER=NRC79506 This is rich! Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, subverting the tax collector, but exactly HOW are we sure that the coins are really .999 silver and he has metal reserves to cover every paper note? His good word? Then there is another question- what makes one ounce of silver worth $10? Last I checked it was worth only about 75% of that. The way I see it- The coins are worth $7.50, which he sells for $10, a 33% markup. The paper money may or may not be worth the value of the paper, ditto for his "web cash." So, at worst, you receive $30 worth of silver for $107! And he could be telling the truth, but not quite! What if he holds futures contracts, on margin, instead of real silver? Just like banks, it is unlikely that all the printed notes will be presented for redemption at once, so he only needs to hold a relatively small amount of silver to make this scam work. Lots of ways I see a clever con artist can fleece the flock here. -MB --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/3b4e0f17/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 17:21:58 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 17:22:04 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] GOING BANANAS. In-Reply-To: <20050818072154.15290.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050823002158.48459.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: >> ALL OF THESE FUCKING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OF THE COMMERICIALISM >> OF PHARMACOLOGY, HAVE SO MANY DAMNED SIDE EFFECTS; SIDE >> EFFECTS ARE MORE ACCURATELY PUT AS DIRECT EFFECTS. > Have A Banana BINGO!!! Thank you Vesta! > Depression: > According to a recent survey undertaken by MIND amongst > people suffering from depression, many felt much better > after eating a banana. This is because bananas contain > trypotophan, a type of protein that the body converts > into serotonin known to make you relax, improve your mood > and generally make you feel happier. MAYBE I NEED A LIFETIME SUPPLY OF BANANAS! THERE IS A SONG THAT IS TITLED: SMOKING BANANA PEELS. I NEVER THOUGHT MUCH OF THAT SONG IN THE PAST, BUT IT MAKES ME WONDER WHAT THE EFFECTS OF ACTUALLY SMOKING BANANA PEELS WOULD BE LIKE, NOW. YES!!! Tryptophan is important in maintaining a healthy attitude toward life. Clyde, I think some of your problems may be seratonin/dopamine imbalance. (I'm not a doctor! This is only an educated guess.) ACTUALLY IT IS AN ENTIRE SABOTAGED NEURAL BALANCE THAT I SUFFER FROM. > Blood Pressure: > This unique tropical fruit is extremely high in potassium > yet low in salt, making it the perfect food for helping > to beat blood pressure. So much so, the US Food and Drug > Administration has just allowed the banana industry to > make official claims for the fruit's ability to reduce > the risk of blood pressure and stroke. YES!!! DRASTIC BLOOD PRESSURE FLUCTUATIONS FROM EVEN THE SLIGHTEST ENVIRONMENTAL STRESSORS, BECAUSE I HAVE POLLUTED MY MIND SO MUCH, LISTENING TO SO MUCH ROCK AND ROLL, AND SO MUCH OTHER MUSIC TOO. But you also need to balance that with magnesium. Too much potassium will drain the body's magnesium reserves, and peristalsis, the wave of contractions in your gut, will fail if there is not enough magnesium. Most Americans are low on magnesium. (You get magnesium by eating green veggies. Some also enters the skin if you soak in a hot bath of epsom salts.) I THINK I'VE HEARD THAT MAGNESIUM HELPS ONE TO GO TO SLEEP, WHEN IT IS TAKEN IN THE RIGHT QUANTITY. DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THAT IS ACCURATE? > Hangovers: > One of the quickest ways of curing a hangover is to make > a banana milkshake, sweetened with honey. The banana > calms the stomach and, with the help of the honey, builds > up depleted blood sugar levels, while the milk soothes > and re-hydrates your system. I DON'T DRINK ENOUGH ALCOHOL, TO WORRY ABOUT THIS, ABOVE, BUT IT IS GOOD ADVICE FOR THOSE WHO DO. Too much sugar isn't really good for you... but... if you don't have hypoglycemic tendencies... bananas are a good snack. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/96a47ae5/attachment-0001.html From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 22 17:26:52 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 22 17:26:55 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. In-Reply-To: <20050822235757.53179.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 22, 2005 04:57:57 PM Message-ID: <20050823002652.79027.qmail@mall-net.com> > ALRIGHT. > > > WEBLINK TO SHARE: > > > > 1. http://www.libertydollar.org/default.asp?REFERER=NRC79506 > > This is rich! Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional, subverting the > tax collector, but exactly HOW are we sure that the coins are really .999 > silver and he has metal reserves to cover every paper note? I am not sure if it is illegal or unconstitutional... That all depends upon how he words it. BUT... > His good word? RIGHT!!! > Then there is another question- what makes one ounce of silver worth $10? > Last I checked it was worth only about 75% of that. Even his lists spot prices that are less than his dollars. So already you have inflation. > The way I see it- The coins are worth $7.50, which he sells for $10, a 33% > markup. The paper money may or may not be worth the value of the paper, > ditto for his "web cash." So, at worst, you receive $30 worth of silver for > $107! Silver goes up and down. So does gold. > And he could be telling the truth, but not quite! What if he holds futures > contracts, on margin, instead of real silver? Just like banks, it is > unlikely that all the printed notes will be presented for redemption at > once, so he only needs to hold a relatively small amount of silver to make > this scam work. Yes. > Lots of ways I see a clever con artist can fleece the flock here. His artwork looks nice. But it's artwork. Today, anyone can print stuff like that, all it takes is a computer and a good printer. So, even if he was totally honest, how secure are the certificates themselves against faking? And who will take them? You've heard the joke about the hillbilly who sends his kid in to the store for something worth less than a buck. The kid gives the clerk a seven dollar bill, and gets two three dollar bills and some wooden nickels as change. I mean, money is money, it's only worth what someone will give you for it. That means if folks don't recognize the issuing source... it's just fancy printed paper. Now that said, there is a guy who draws his own money. It looks sort of like a US bill, but not close enough to be counterfeit. And since he's an artist, his collectors are willing to pay more than face value for his art works. But as an investment, this doesn't quite look reasonable. You're better off buying bars of silver and gold, or maybe look at Krugerands. I don't know the details, it's been a long time since I heard the gold Krugerands coins hyped. -javilk- mall-net.com ------------------- IMAGINEERING -------------------- --------------- Every click, a vote. ---------------- ----- Do people vote for, or against your pages? ---- -- What people want: http://www.SitePsych.com/free -- ----------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2005, Copyright retained. All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 22 17:32:24 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 22 17:32:31 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] GOING BANANAS. In-Reply-To: <20050823002158.48459.qmail@web50611.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 22, 2005 05:21:58 PM Message-ID: <20050823003224.83376.qmail@mall-net.com> > BINGO!!! Thank you Vesta! > > > Depression: > > According to a recent survey undertaken by MIND amongst > > people suffering from depression, many felt much better > > after eating a banana. This is because bananas contain > > trypotophan, a type of protein that the body converts > > into serotonin known to make you relax, improve your mood > > and generally make you feel happier. > > > MAYBE I NEED A LIFETIME SUPPLY OF BANANAS! Too much of anything isn't good. > THERE IS A SONG THAT IS TITLED: SMOKING BANANA PEELS. My father use to sing "Cheapa banana, two for nickel-o, doncha wanit, doncha buyit." > I NEVER THOUGHT MUCH OF THAT SONG IN THE PAST, BUT IT MAKES ME WONDER WHAT THE EFFECTS OF ACTUALLY SMOKING BANANA PEELS WOULD BE LIKE, NOW. As Vesta says, it's not a good idea. > YES!!! Tryptophan is important in maintaining a healthy attitude > toward life. Clyde, I think some of your problems may be > seratonin/dopamine imbalance. (I'm not a doctor! This is only an > educated guess.) > > ACTUALLY IT IS AN ENTIRE SABOTAGED NEURAL BALANCE THAT I SUFFER FROM. We don't know the details. > > Blood Pressure: > > This unique tropical fruit is extremely high in potassium > > yet low in salt, making it the perfect food for helping > > to beat blood pressure. So much so, the US Food and Drug > > Administration has just allowed the banana industry to > > make official claims for the fruit's ability to reduce > > the risk of blood pressure and stroke. > > YES!!! > > DRASTIC BLOOD PRESSURE FLUCTUATIONS FROM EVEN THE SLIGHTEST ENVIRONMENTAL STRESSORS, BECAUSE I HAVE POLLUTED MY MIND SO MUCH, LISTENING TO SO MUCH ROCK AND ROLL, AND SO MUCH OTHER MUSIC TOO. Rock music builds up tension. > But you also need to balance that with magnesium. Too much > potassium will drain the body's magnesium reserves, and peristalsis, > the wave of contractions in your gut, will fail if there is not enough > magnesium. Most Americans are low on magnesium. (You get magnesium by > eating green veggies. Some also enters the skin if you soak in a hot > bath of epsom salts.) > > > I THINK I'VE HEARD THAT MAGNESIUM HELPS ONE TO GO TO SLEEP, WHEN IT IS TAKEN IN THE RIGHT QUANTITY. It can have a relaxing effect. Too much however, and you get the trots. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Mon Aug 22 18:05:49 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Mon Aug 22 18:05:55 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. In-Reply-To: <20050823002652.79027.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050823010550.51748.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > ALRIGHT. > > > WEBLINK TO SHARE: > > > > 1. http://www.libertydollar.org/default.asp?REFERER=NRC79506 > This is rich! Not only is it illegal and unconstitutional UNCONSTITUTIONAL? I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, IF THE PEOPLE GET SO FUCKING FED UP AT BILL CLINTON AND GEORGE BUSH, BOTH, EQUALLY SELLING THIS COUNTRY OUT. BILL CLINTON: SELLOUT TO COMMUNIST CHINA. GEORGE BUSH JR.: CONTINUED SELLOUT TO COMMUNIST CRAP CHINA, AND BILLION DOLLAR SELLOUT, TO IRAQ. , subverting the > tax collector, but exactly HOW are we sure that the coins are really .999 YEAH; TESTING NEEDS TO BE DONE, TO VERIFY THE AUTHENTICITY. > silver and he has metal reserves to cover every paper note? I am not sure if it is illegal or unconstitutional... That all depends upon how he words it. BUT... > His good word? RIGHT!!! > Then there is another question- what makes one ounce of silver worth $10? > Last I checked it was worth only about 75% of that. YEAH; LET'S JUST MAKE A BUCK SILVER, OR HELL; PLATINUM NOW, INSTEAD OF FUCKING GOD DAMNED PAPER! Even his lists spot prices that are less than his dollars. So already you have inflation. > The way I see it- The coins are worth $7.50, which he sells for $10, a 33% > markup. The paper money may or may not be worth the value of the paper, > ditto for his "web cash." So, at worst, you receive $30 worth of silver for > $107! LET'S JUST MAKE A BUCK; SILVER, OR PLATINUM, WITH HIS EXACT SAME LADY LIBERTY ARTISTRY! Silver goes up and down. So does gold. YEAH. > And he could be telling the truth, but not quite! What if he holds futures > contracts, on margin, instead of real silver? Just like banks, it is > unlikely that all the printed notes will be presented for redemption at > once, so he only needs to hold a relatively small amount of silver to make > this scam work. Yes. LIKE MERLE HAGGARD'S SONG: I WISH A BUCK WAS STILL SILVER. WHY ISN'T HE JUST MAKING AUTHENTIC SILVER LIBERTY DOLLARS, AND ONLY LEAVING IT THAT? > Lots of ways I see a clever con artist can fleece the flock here. His artwork looks nice. YEAH; THE LADY LIBERTY ARTWORK LOOKS GOOD. But it's artwork. Today, anyone can print stuff like that, all it takes is a computer and a good printer. YEAH! So, even if he was totally honest, how secure are the certificates themselves against faking? YEAH; HE DOESN'T PRESENT A CONCRETE WAYS AND MEANS OF BACKING UP HIS CURRENCY. I HATE NETWORK MARKETING SCHEMES; SO MANY OF THE GOD DAMNED THINGS OUT THERE, SCREWING PEOPLE ENDLESSLY. And who will take them? You've heard the joke about the hillbilly who sends his kid in to the store for something worth less than a buck. The kid gives the clerk a seven dollar bill, and gets two three dollar bills and some wooden nickels as change. I mean, money is money, it's only worth what someone will give you for it. That means if folks don't recognize the issuing source... it's just fancy printed paper. Now that said, there is a guy who draws his own money. It looks sort of like a US bill, but not close enough to be counterfeit. And since he's an artist, his collectors are willing to pay more than face value for his art works. But as an investment, this doesn't quite look reasonable. You're better off buying bars of silver and gold, I'D LIKE TO INVEST IN SILVER SHEET METAL, OR PLATINUM SHEET METAL, FOR THE HULL OF MY CUSTOM TETRAHEDRAL SPACESHIP, IF RESOURCES WERE NOT SO GOD DAMNED FOREVER FINITE IN THIS PODUNK INDUSTRIAL SLUM OF TULSA OKLAHOMA. WE THE PEOPLE OF THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE NEED TO BORE GIGANTIC HOLES IN ALL FOUR SIDES OF THE WILLIAMS CENTER-BANK OF OKLAHOMA- LONE WORLD TRADE TOWER GOLD SILO BUILDING, IN DOWNSLUM TULSA, AND DEFLATE UNCLE SCROODGE MCFUCK ("MCDUCK"), AND SPREAD THE WEALTH, TO WE THE PEOPLE OF THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE. THE FUCKING OVERTAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION OKLAHOMA FINANCIAL SYSTEMS AND EDUCATIONAL SYSTEMS NEED DEFLATION, AND WE THE FINANCIALLY AND EDUCATIONALLY SCREWED PEOPLE OF THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE NEED TO RE-'FLATED'!!!!!! WE NEED TO TAKE OUR SYSTEMS CONTROLS BACK. I'M SICK OF THIS FASCIST FOREVER GO NOWHERE CORPORATE SHTATE. or maybe look at Krugerands. I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH KRUGERANDS. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050822/537b851d/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Aug 22 19:09:47 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Mon Aug 22 19:09:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK TO SHARE. In-Reply-To: <20050823010550.51748.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 22, 2005 06:05:49 PM Message-ID: <20050823020947.58849.qmail@mall-net.com> > > YEAH; HE DOESN'T PRESENT A CONCRETE WAYS AND MEANS OF BACKING UP HIS CURRENCY. > > I HATE NETWORK MARKETING SCHEMES; SO MANY OF THE GOD DAMNED THINGS OUT THERE, SCREWING PEOPLE ENDLESSLY. And the numeric tag on the end of the URL is an introduction number so that whoever passed the URL around can get some extra credits. > But as an investment, this doesn't quite look reasonable. You're > better off buying bars of silver and gold, > > I'D LIKE TO INVEST IN SILVER SHEET METAL, OR PLATINUM SHEET METAL, FOR THE HULL OF MY CUSTOM TETRAHEDRAL SPACESHIP, IF RESOURCES WERE NOT SO GOD DAMNED FOREVER FINITE IN THIS PODUNK INDUSTRIAL SLUM OF TULSA OKLAHOMA. Gold and silver are good as an exchange medium. Out in space... I rather suspect the preferred medium will be water and energy in the realm of Venus to past Mars. Beyond that, I don't know how the balance is. > WE THE PEOPLE OF THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE NEED TO BORE GIGANTIC HOLES IN ALL FOUR SIDES OF THE WILLIAMS CENTER-BANK OF OKLAHOMA- LONE WORLD TRADE TOWER GOLD SILO BUILDING, IN DOWNSLUM TULSA, AND DEFLATE UNCLE SCROODGE MCFUCK ("MCDUCK"), AND SPREAD THE WEALTH, TO WE THE PEOPLE OF THIS SHITTY AND SHTATE. I don't think it will work. As the economy of Silicon Valley shows, the more money there is to go around, the more people bid for the the things there isn't enough of. So prices start rising. In other states, people ask for so much for a house, and settle lower and lower as it stays on the market. In California, the buyers make offers higher than the asking price, hoping they will get it. Heck, I've done it trying to get apartments that have waiting lists. > WE NEED TO TAKE OUR SYSTEMS CONTROLS BACK. We are the systems controls. We just don't know what the heck we are doing! > I'M SICK OF THIS FASCIST FOREVER GO NOWHERE CORPORATE SHTATE. A corporation can only make money if people need and want their products; so they have to try to do what the people want. If they want cheap, it comes from China. If they want quality, it comes form Japan. > or maybe look at Krugerands. > > I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH KRUGERANDS. Gold coin from South Africa, back when it was a white racist government. Not just gold, but a gold coin, and sold for, I forget whether it was $75 or $100. Price went up and down with the price of gold, of course. The financial markets talked it up as gold investment in quantities most people could afford, vs having to buy bars and rent vault space. But all of this precious metals investment is only intended as a hedge against catastrophic economic failure. Financial advisors say you shouldn't put more than some ten to twenty percent of your wealth into this, because precious metals do not appreciate very much in stable times; whereas investments in the right stocks or even bonds produce continued returns. More important, the money invested in banks, stocks, and bonds is used to produce more goods, adding to everyone's wealth, not just your own. And in event of real economic chaos, you want that gold in coins in your home, and several people who know how to use guns living with you. We didn't even have real economic chaos in the Great Depression; not like Europe in World War II, where paper money became worthless. Those were the times my parents walked through Europe, doing whatever kind of work they could for a little cash, dodging the Gestapo, etc. There, gold had value... but food had more value! -javilk- mall-net.com ------------------- IMAGINEERING -------------------- ----- Advice, Analysis, Strategies, Development ----- Serving the World for three generations, since 1933 ----------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2005, Copyright retained. All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 00:01:34 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 00:01:41 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <90.64476d33.30391a7e@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050823070134.54451.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Vesta111@aol.com wrote: clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWERClyde, I went online to see what and where we could find you this Lotus plant you wish to grow, kill and then smoke. HERE IS A PERFECT WEBSITE, WITH THE TRUE (AUTHENTIC) LOTUS FLOWER; NELUMBO NUCIFERA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nelumbo_nucifera THE CENTER SEEDPOD IS SUPPOSEDLY A FRUIT, AND THE ENTIRE PLANT, FLOWER AND ALL, DOWN TO EVEN THE ROOTS, ARE SUPPOSEDLY 100% ENTIRELY EDIBLE. I PURCHASED SEVERAL SEEDS FROM A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE; GAVE TWO SEEDS AWAY TO A FRIEND, AND KEPT THE OTHER TWO. I OPENED BOTH OF THE SEEDS THAT I KEPT. THE SEEDLINGS WERE REALLY DEHYDRATED INSIDE, AND ONE OF THE TWO SEEDLINGS WAS SO DEHYDRATED, WHEN I OPENED IT, THAT IT IMMEDIATELY BROKE, AND THAT SEEDLING WAS IMMEDIATELY DESTROYED AND RUINED. I SUCCESSFULLY GREW THE OTHER SEEDLING FOR A WHILE, BUT THEN MY BIMBO DUMBASS MOM SCREWED THE PROJECT UP, WHEN SHE DIDN'T GIVE THE PLANT ENOUGH WATER WHILE I HAD TO STAY FOR TWO WEEKS IN A 'HOSPITAL', AND ALLOWED A THUNDERSTORM TO DESTROY THE FRAGILE LEAF OFFSHOOT THAT HAD STARTED TO GROW FROM THE MAIN SEEDLING PART OF THE PLANT. NOW IT IS SO GODDAMNED LATE IN THE SUMMERTIME, THAT MY PLANS ARE ON A SHELF TILL NEXT SUMMER, IF I CAN MAKE IT THROUGH TILL THEN. I WAS SO FRUSTRATED, AND STILL AM. WHY WAIT UNTIL NEXT SUMMER, WHEN THE DOOMED PROJECT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE BEGUN IN THE MONTH OF MARCH, AND NOT IN LATE JULY? I know the Egyptians were ga-ga over the lotus, THE EGYPTIAN LOTUS ISN'T THE TRUE NELUMBO NUCIFERA OF THE HINDU'S AND THE BUDDHISTS. NYMPHAEAE CERULAEAE, OR HOWEVER THE HELL IT'S SPELLED, IS THE BOTANIST'S NAME FOR THE WATER LILY (MISTAKEN AS LOTUS) OF THE EGYPTIANS. you see it everywhere in the ancient paintings and stone work. YEAH; I SAW SOME PHOTOS ON THE NET, ON A WEBPAGE DESCRIBING THE EGYPTIAN WATERLILY; I THINK THAT WEBSITE IS TITLED: THE I AM SHAMAN SHOP .COM, IF I REMEMBER RIGHT. THOSE PHOTOS SHOWED THE ENGRAVING OF THE EGYPTIAN WATERLILY IN THE ANCIENT STONEWORK. I believe you may find lotus symbols as often if not more then the Anuk. .( I know the spelling is wrong but i am too tired to look it up) . About 5 or 6 years ago I watched a gardening show about the lotus of Egypt. There is one place in England that has a blue lotus that is a 2nd. or 3rd. generation of a plant that, as of today, no one on earth really knows if this is the true species of lotus that enraptured the people. And why or how did the plant cause such a sensation ? FROM WHAT I HAVE READ; THE TRUE HINDU AND BUDDHIST NELUMBO LOTUS, WITH THE FRUIT AND SEEDPOD CENTER, WHEN CONSUMED, OR WHEN PORTIONS OF IT ARE SMOKED, SUPPOSEDLY PRODUCE PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS SIMILAR TO MARIJUANA, YET INDUCE CALMING NEUROLOGICAL SEDATIVE EFFECTS AT THE SAME TIME, INSTEAD OF EUPHORIA AND PARANOIA, LIKE MARIJUANA. Let you in on a little secret Clyde, my good friend has a son who bought leaves of a South American plant, a form of Sage plant. It is legal here in New Hampshire----I refuse to tell you the name of this plant as it is still sold in a lot of states and I don't know if it is legal where you are. Anyway, I have known about this plant, the Wicca faith here use it to fly sometimes, and there was interest about growing it in green houses since there was no law against it. This plant is so dangerous that I found sites on the web warning dopers to be ever of careful of this craze inducing drug. I DOES NOT MATTER TO ME. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN THAT PLANT, WHATEVER ONE THAT IT IS; UNLESS IT IS THE PAYOTE THAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO, BELOW. O.K. the son of my buddy bought some of this from a head shop , went home ,rolled a joint and after smoking, alone, not knowing the effects of the herb, damn near killed his family. Big time nightmare trip for the kid, not to mention his family including the 3 children between the ages of 3 and 7 who he chased about with a knife. This kid is a grown man 23 years old and he experimented with an unknown drug alone, no life guard to pull him out of the effects or make sure he didn't harm himself or others. Clyde, I really think the idea of growing or smoking anything you have no idea of the effects of can put you in the place of not coming down for breakfast. YEAH WELL, I'M STUDYING THE NELUMBO FLOWER, AND HAVE GAINED AN INTEREST IN WHY SO MANY PEOPLE IN THE EASTERN RELIGIONS REVERE IT SO HIGHLY OVER SO MANY OTHER PLANTS, INCLUDING REVERING IT ABOVE MARIJUANA. Also, The American Indians are the only ancient peoples from anywhere on earth that I have heard of smoking anything, and that was tobacco. YEAH, OK. South Americans EAT or CHEW coco leaves, they don't smoke them. Indians ate for religious reasons Payote, PAYOTE CACTUS; I NEED TO LOOK INTO IT MORE INDEPTH. I DO HAVE A MICRO FRACTION OF CHOCTAW INDIAN BLOOD IN ME. I WAS INFORMED THAT I CAN LEGALLY OBTAIN PEYOTE FROM MY INDIAN TRIBE, HERE IN OKLAHOMA. HELL, I COULD PROBABLY JUST GO OUT INTO NATURE, AND FIND IT MYSELF, ON MY OWN, AFTER STUDYING ABOUT IT A BIT. and that was once or twice in a life time. The drugs of South East Asia were for thousands of years, up to today , ingested. It was the British that taught the Chinese to smoke opium. I HAVE NO INTEREST IN OPIUM. Clyde please don't smoke anything. Want to get high, bake Mary Jane Brownies or go 6 weeks without a cigarette and then smoke one, make you buzz like hell. I DON'T SMOKE CIGARETTES ANYWAY. I HAVE WONDERED IF THE TULSA GARDEN CENTER MIGHT POSSIBLY HELP ME TO GROW NELUMBO IN THEIR YEAR ROUND GREENHOUSE, SINCE MY BIMBO DUMB MOM SCREWED MY LOTUS PROJECT UP. We all look forward to your posts, sometimes you make me so mad I could smack you. I'M SO DAMNED MAD ANGRY AT TIMES, I JUST FEEL LIKE BOXING SOMEONE. Then there are times when I nod and to myself knowing just how you feel. Been there done that. I think we all have walked a mile in your shoes at sometime in our lives. Now for the hard part Clyde, we can relate to you---- can you relate to us ???? YES. We have our rants and pains, our problems, can you understand or feel our pain ?? YES. AND I WANT A LIMITLESS 'OVER'DOSE OF ANTI ADDICTIVE PAINKILLERS, WITH THE RIGHT THERAPY; LIKE CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY, FOR MY OWN PRIVATE USAGE, IN MY LAB. Clyde, if you want a friend, you must be a friend. In other words, Clyde, we care about you, do you care about us ????? YES, I DO CARE. BUT I AM NOT AN EXPERT. I HOPE YOU ALL WILL NOT THINK OF ME AS AN EXPERT. MY MAIN INTERESTS LIE IN EXPERIMENTAL ELECTRICAL TECHNOLOGY, ELECTROMECHANICS, BROADCAST AND AMATEUR RADIO ENGINEERING, AND ELECTROACOUSTICS SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY, ETC. ANTI-GRAVITY AND ESOTERIC ALTERNATIVE ENERGY EXPERIMENTS ARE ALSO INTERESTS. ANTI-SUFFICIENT-CASHFLOW PREVENTS MANY OF US FROM BEING ALL THAT WE CAN BE; FROM BUILDING OUR LABS INTO WHAT WE CAN ONLY IMAGINE BEYOND OUR WILDEST DREAMS. I'D LIKE TO GET A D.W. (DRUM WORKSHOP) DRUM KIT, AND ADD IT TO MY LAB / STUDIO / STATION / EXPERIMENTAL FACILITY, ETC.... WELL WHERE DOES THE GARGANTUAN MOUNTAINLOAD OF CASHFLOW COME FROM, TO MAKE THAT PROJECT INTO AN ACTUAL REALITY? I DON'T KNOW. FINANCIAL SUCCESS IS FOREVER FLEETING. IS IT THAT WAY FOR ALL OF US??? I DON'T KNOW, BUT I WISH I COULD HAVE A CHASTE, HUMBLE, AND SINCERE MENTOR IN MY LIFE, WHO IS FINANCIALLY SUCCESSFUL, WHO COULD TEACH ME THE TRICKS OF THE TRADE, WITHOUT TALKING A LOT OF SHIT, AND WITHOUT BEING OVERLY CRITICAL. Don't ignore me Clyde, I want answers to my questions, WELL, HERE'S MY REPLY. IT TOOK ME SEVERAL DAMNED DAYS TO RESPOND, BECAUSE I HAVE JUST BEEN BOGGED DOWN BY MY JOB, AND HAVE BEEN SO TIRED MOST OF THE TIME, WITH SO MANY E-MAILS TO RESPOND BACK TO, AND I AM SUCH A PERFECTIONIST THAT I MAKE ALL OF THE ATTEMPTS THAT I CAN, TO GET THE SPELLINGS CORRECT IN MY RESPONSES, AND TO GET THE REVISIONS DONE TO THEM AS WELL. you can give them to us, no more one way help, ONE WAY IS THE WAY THAT I HAVE TO GO A LOT OF THE TIME, JUST BECAUSE I JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO RESPOND TO EVERY DETAIL ON EVERY E-MAIL, WITH AS MUCH OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE PERFECTIONISTIC EFFORT THAT I PUT INTO MY WORK IN TYPING AND RESPONDING, ETC. IF WHAT I TYPED DIRECTLY ABOVE MAKES SENSE. MY MIND IS GETTING TIRED RIGHT NOW. how about you giving us some of your ideas to help us. Time to listen to our problems and try to give us advise WELL, I DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING; AND I AM A MAD *AMATEUR* 'SCIENTIST' OR MAD AMATEUR EXPERIMENTER, OR A MAD AMATEUR ENGINEER, AND NOT A PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIST, AND HAVE NO CARE OR CONCERN ABOUT BECOMING A PROFESSIONAL SCIENTIST, IN LIFE. I CAN HELP OUT WHERE I CAN, BUT I HAVE ZERO INTEREST IN ANY OTHER LISTS OUT THERE ON THE NET. THIS LIST IS WAY TOO FUN, AND COOL! UNLESS YOU ALL CAN SUGGEST OTHER LISTS THAT I COULD JOIN AT THE SAME TIME, TO EXPRESS CERTAIN THOUGHTS ELSEWHERE, INSTEAD OF ONLY HERE AND HERE ALONE. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT I WANT TO LEAVE THIS LIST. I JUST CAN'T THINK OF ANY OTHER LISTS THAT WOULD BE OF BENEFIT TO ME IN MY LIFE, OTHER THAN THIS LIST. ----This is what friends do, OK. I hope you will be a friend to us, I'M TRYING. THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG THAT I WAS TAKING BEFORE, WAS MAKING ME VERY BITTER, VERY MISERABLE, AND VERY ANGRY, AND WAS ALSO WEAKENING MY IMMUNE SYSTEM. THE PRESCRIPTION DRUG THAT I AM PRESENTLY TAKING, IS GETTING ME THROUGH, ALTHOUGH IT ISN'T AN ABSOLUTION. CHEMISTRY ONLY OFFERS CHEMICAL CLOAKS. PHYSICS ON THE OTHER HAND, OFFERS ABSOLUTIONS; IN MY CASE; ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT THAT JOHN INTRODUCED TO ME, HOLDS A PROMISING FUTURE FOR MYSELF, IF I CAN GET THE PROJECT TO ITS COMPLETION. I ONLY LACK SOME SILICONE R.T.V., BUT MONEY HAS ME STRAPPED AT THIS TIME, FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE MONTH; ANOTHER PROBLEM; MY PERFECTIONISM GETS IN THE WAY OF MY PROGRESS IN LIFE. BUT I HAVE BECOME A STICKLER FOR QUALITY IN WORKMANSHIP ON THINGS THAT I DO. IN SOME WAYS, IT IS BLESSING, AND IN SOME WAYS, IT IS A CURSE. we are willing to be ,and have been your friend. THANK YOU ALL! (OR FROM THE OKIE WAY OF SAYIN' IT: THANK Y'ALL!!!!) Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." AN INTERESTING SAYING; BUT I HOPE THERE IS ENOUGH HOPE REMAINING IN AMERICA, THAT REALITY DOESN'T COME DOWN TO WHAT YOU'VE GOT IN THIS SAYING. I WANT A HOPEFUL AND PEACEFUL FUTURE. SINCERELY, CLYDE --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/ee4a1bc0/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 00:44:33 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 00:45:02 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: FURTHER REPLY. In-Reply-To: <90.64476d33.30391a7e@aol.com> Message-ID: <20050823074433.37138.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Vesta111@aol.com wrote: clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: How about you giving us some of your ideas to help us. ONE NOVEL SCIENCE PROJECT THAT I'VE CONTEMPLATED, IS AN ANTI-GRAVITY (COUNTERGRAVITY) WATERFOUNTAIN; (FLOWING UPSIDE UP IN AIR, INSTEAD UPSIDE DOWN IN AIR), SOMEHOW USING A COMBINATION OF BOTH WATER AND ACOUSTIC ENERGY, IN SOME FORM AND SORT, OF COMBINATION TOGETHER. I HAVEN'T REALLY PUT A LOT MORE THOUGHT INTO IT THAN THAT. I'VE ALSO THOUGHT OF ELECTRICITY ITSELF, AS BEING A NATURAL FORM OF ANTI-GRAVITY WATER IN SPACETIME. WHAT ARE Y'ALL'S THOUGHT'S REGARDING THAT??? PERHAPS THE SAME CAN BE SAID ABOUT HEAT WAVE ENERGY, HIGH VOLTAGE (LIGHTNING) ELECTRICAL ENERGY, AND ACOUSTIC SONIC SOUND ENERGY, ALL, EQUALLY, TOGETHER. RADIO AND TELEVISION PHASE WAVES POSSESS BOTH INTELLIGENT AND UNINTELLIGENT HEAT WAVE ENERGY, (BOTH ORGANIZED AND CHAOTIC, WHETHER PRODUCED BY MAN, OR BY NATURE.); RADIO AND TELEVISION PHASE WAVES POSSESS BOTH INTELLIGENT AND UNINTELLIGENT HIGH VOLTAGE (MICRO LIGHTNING) ELECTRICAL ENERGY, (BOTH ORGANIZED AND CHAOTIC, WHETHER PRODUCED BY MAN, OR BY NATURE.); RADIO AND TELEVISION PHASE WAVES POSSESS BOTH INTELLIGENT AND UNINTELLIGENT ACOUSTIC SONIC SOUND ENERGY, (BOTH ORGANIZED AND CHAOTIC, WHETHER PRODUCED BY MAN, OR BY NATURE.). Time to listen to our problems and try to give us advise. OK; IF I HAVE THE ABILITY TO BE OF HELP, I WILL TRY. ----This is what friends do, OK. Regards Vesta SINCERELY, CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/7b2c8d2f/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 23 00:48:36 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 23 00:48:41 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: PLEASE REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050823070134.54451.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 23, 2005 12:01:34 AM Message-ID: <20050823074836.65702.qmail@mall-net.com> >> O.K. the son of my buddy bought some of this from a head shop >, went home ,rolled a joint and after smoking, alone, not knowing the >effects of the herb, damn near killed his family. Big time nightmare >trip for the kid, not to mention his family including the 3 children >between the ages of 3 and 7 who he chased about with a knife. This kid >is a grown man 23 years old and he experimented with an unknown drug >alone, no life guard to pull him out of the effects or make sure he >didn't harm himself or others. > Clyde, I really think the idea of growing or smoking anything you > have no idea of the effects of can put you in the place of not coming > down for breakfast. What Vesta is saying, is that it is not always clear what the reactions will be. they may be mild, or they may, due to some quirks in your particular biochemistry, be very bad. Like what I read about LSD; some people are ok with it, others start having flashbacks. And some, just go crazy and never come back! You say that marijuana started some of your troubles. That may be a warning that your particular biochemistry does not do very well with strange chemicals. Isaac Asimov said something to this effect as well in one of his science pieces discussing psychoactives. They put a stress on the chemistry, and in some people, it just breaks! And then they are permanently crazy, delusional, etc. > We all look forward to your posts, sometimes you make me so mad I could smack you. > > I'M SO DAMNED MAD ANGRY AT TIMES, I JUST FEEL LIKE BOXING SOMEONE. > > Then there are times when I nod and to myself knowing just how you > feel. Been there done that. I think we all have walked a mile in your > shoes at sometime in our lives. > > Now for the hard part Clyde, we can relate to you---- > > can you relate to us ???? > > YES. > > We have our rants and pains, our problems, can you understand or feel our pain ?? > > YES. > AND I WANT A LIMITLESS 'OVER'DOSE OF ANTI ADDICTIVE PAINKILLERS, WITH > THE RIGHT THERAPY; LIKE CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE > TECHNOLOGY, FOR MY OWN PRIVATE USAGE, IN MY LAB. Yes, but we don't do that. We don't react quite as you do. We've learned that life is what we make of it. And so, we go make of it as much as we can. > Clyde, if you want a friend, you must be a friend. In other words, > Clyde, we care about you, do you care about us ????? > > YES, I DO CARE. > BUT I AM NOT AN EXPERT. I think what Vesta is saying, is that we care very much about you, and we don't want you to get hurt. We feel your pain; but if you go off on high risk things... we are afraid you are going to get hurt. And some of us who know something about medicine... well, our fears are even higher because we have some sense as to how far out on the limb you already are. We hope that you can crawl back a little to where the limb is stronger and more stable. That's both emotionally and biochemically. In all these religious ceremonies where psychoactive plants are used, there are priests and guides to make sure the taker is guided through his or her experience to a good end. The other thing is, most of the psychedelic drugs have long term effects, damage, resulting in solid color backgrounds without detail developing rolling subtle colors. The brain can no longer hold itself well. There is damage. How much damage depends upon how much use. And if it is true with color, it might well be true in other areas, where concepts start drifting smearing. Some of the guys I met at work who had used LSD, though they did have some ability, were kind of dull and slow, plodding, almost as if they weren't all there. Fundamentally, in order to have a psychedelic experience, one has to screw with some rather important brain parameters. And when one does this... what does one trust? The perceptions are screwy, the logic is blown... how does one know how to act, what to do? So yes, maybe some of the people have all kinds of old feelings rise, and they go nuts running around with a knife or a gun till someone shoots them dead, or locks them away in a mental hospital for the safety of the rest of society. I mean, you are already angry. So it may not take much to make you act in ways that are not in your long term best interests. Your brain, don't leave home without it! We care, Clyde; we care very much!!! -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 01:04:54 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 01:05:10 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] GOING BANANAS. In-Reply-To: <20050823003224.83376.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050823080454.4280.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> > YES!!! Tryptophan is important in maintaining a healthy attitude > toward life. MAYBE I NEED AN OVERDOSE OF TRYPTOPHAN??? Clyde, I think some of your problems may be > seratonin/dopamine imbalance. (I'm not a doctor! This is only an > educated guess.) > > ACTUALLY IT IS AN ENTIRE SABOTAGED NEURAL BALANCE THAT I SUFFER FROM. We don't know the details. THE DETAILS: NEUROSIS IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS, CAUSED BY THE SEXUAL ABUSE IN MY YOUTH. PSYCHOSIS, FROM EXPERIMENTATION WITH MARIJUANA WITH HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS. INSOMNIA FROM EXPERIMENTATION WITH METH WITH HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS, IN COMBINATION WITH ABOVE NAMED TWO. > But you also need to balance that with magnesium. Too much > potassium will drain the body's magnesium reserves, and peristalsis, > the wave of contractions in your gut, will fail if there is not enough > magnesium. Most Americans are low on magnesium. (You get magnesium by > eating green veggies. Some also enters the skin if you soak in a hot > bath of epsom salts.) > I THINK I'VE HEARD THAT MAGNESIUM HELPS ONE TO GO TO SLEEP, WHEN IT IS TAKEN IN THE RIGHT QUANTITY. It can have a relaxing effect. Too much however, and you get the trots. CAN YOU CLARIFY WHAT YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY THE TROTS? I LOOKED IN THE WEBSTERS DICTIONARY, BUT IT WASN'T OF TREMENDOUS HELP IN AFFILIATION WITH MAGNESIUM AND SLEEP, UNLESS WHAT YOU MEANT, IS THAT SLEEP AND WAKING CYCLES BECOME WAY TOO FREQUENT, AND NOT FUN AT ALL; OR DOES IT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HYPERACTIVITY AT ALL??? CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/e8adc76c/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 06:07:36 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 06:07:45 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Tulsa is a prison. Message-ID: <20050823130737.28150.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Tulsa is a prison, of the damned. And so is Oklahoma as well. Clyde __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/21629bad/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 07:05:06 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 07:05:27 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: REPLY. In-Reply-To: <20050823074836.65702.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050823140507.94610.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > Clyde, I really think the idea of growing or smoking anything you > have no idea of the effects of can put you in the place of not coming > down for breakfast. What Vesta is saying, is that it is not always clear what the reactions will be. they may be mild, or they may, due to some quirks in your particular biochemistry, be very bad. I KNOW WHAT HE'S SAYING. BUT I ALSO KNOW THAT I AM SUFFERING A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL AND NEURAL('OGICAL') PAIN AS WELL; AND I WANT A PEACEFUL, PERMANENT ABSOLUTION FOR BOTH OF THEM. Like what I read about LSD; some people are ok with it, others start having flashbacks. And some, just go crazy and never come back! FUCK L.S.D. You say that marijuana started some of your troubles. That may be a warning that your particular biochemistry does not do very well with strange chemicals. Isaac Asimov said something to this effect as well in one of his science pieces discussing psychoactives. They put a stress on the chemistry, and in some people, it just breaks! And then they are permanently crazy, delusional, etc. WELL; I'VE LOST MY MIND NOW. DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT SUCCESSFULLY IN LIFE; ESPECIALLY IN THIS INDUSTRY WASTELAND AND SLUM AND INDUSTRIAL SLUMBURB, OF TULSA, WHERE I LIVE. I WAS TOLD THAT I NEED A CHANGE OF SCENERY. WELL I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT THAT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN WITHOUT FINANCIAL RESOURCES BEING IN AMPLE SUPPLY, AND TO FURTHER EDUCATION ALONG A LOT FURTHER, ETC.... > We all look forward to your posts, sometimes you make me so mad I could smack you. > I'M SO DAMNED MAD ANGRY AT TIMES, I JUST FEEL LIKE BOXING SOMEONE. > YES. > AND I WANT A LIMITLESS 'OVER'DOSE OF *ANTI*ADDICTIVE PAINKILLERS, WITH THE RIGHT THERAPY; LIKE CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY, FOR MY OWN PRIVATE USAGE, IN MY LAB. Yes, but we don't do that. We don't react quite as you do. We've learned that life is what we make of it. And so, we go make of it as much as we can. LIFE CERTAINLY ISN'T WHAT I MAKE OF IT; IT NEVER HAS BEEN. > Clyde, if you want a friend, you must be a friend. In other words, > Clyde, we care about you, do you care about us ????? > YES, I DO CARE. > BUT I AM NOT AN EXPERT. I think what Vesta is saying, is that we care very much about you, and we don't want you to get hurt. We feel your pain; but if you go off on high risk things... we are afraid you are going to get hurt. And some of us who know something about medicine... well, our fears are even higher because we have some sense as to how far out on the limb you already are. We hope that you can crawl back a little to where the limb is stronger and more stable. That's both emotionally and biochemically. WELL YEAH; OK. BUT MAYBE I JUST MIGHT AS WELL START DIGGING MY OWN GRAVE. In all these religious ceremonies where psychoactive plants are used, there are priests and guides to make sure the taker is guided through his or her experience to a good end. I GUESS THAT WOULD ALSO INCLUDE BUDDHIST'S AND HINDU'S WHO INGEST THE NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWER FOR ITS PSYCHOACTIVE PROPERTIES, AND ITS NEURAL SEDATIVE PROPERTIES. The other thing is, most of the psychedelic drugs have long term effects, damage, resulting in solid color backgrounds without detail developing rolling subtle colors. The brain can no longer hold itself well. There is damage. How much damage depends upon how much use. And if it is true with color, it might well be true in other areas, where concepts start drifting smearing. Some of the guys I met at work who had used LSD, though they did have some ability, were kind of dull and slow, plodding, almost as if they weren't all there. I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT PSYCHEDELIC DRUGS. I NEED LASTING PEACE IN MY LIFE. THAT IS WHAT I NEED MOST OF ALL! Fundamentally, in order to have a psychedelic experience, one has to screw with some rather important brain parameters. And when one does this... what does one trust? The perceptions are screwy, the logic is blown... how does one know how to act, what to do? So yes, maybe some of the people have all kinds of old feelings rise, and they go nuts running around with a knife or a gun till someone shoots them dead, or locks them away in a YOU FORGOT TO SPELL MENTAL HOSPITAL, WITH THE WORD ENVIRON BEFORE IT: mental hospital for the safety of the rest of society. ENVIRONMENTAL SO-CALLED HOSPITALS. THE ENVIRONMENTAL INFUCKTUTIONS. THE ENVIRON-MENTAL TORTURE, PSEUDO HOSPITALS. CHIROPRACTIC CARE HAS BEEN OF THE MOST BENEFIT TO ME, SO FAR, WITH THE INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY. I mean, you are already angry. So it may not take much to make you act in ways that are not in your long term best interests. Your brain, don't leave home without it! We care, Clyde; we care very much!!! For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. THERE IS A LOCAL LADY NUTRICIANIST DOCTOR, WHO MY CHIROPRACTOR INFORMED ME OF. WOULD SHE BE UNDER THE CATEGORY AND TITLE OF AN ORTHOMOLECULAR DOCTOR? OR IS THERE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN SOMEONE BEING A NUTRICIANIST, AND SOMEONE BEING AN ORTHOMOLECULAR DOCTOR? Today's Art Photo I ACCIDENTALLY SCREWED UP THE LINK HERE ABOVE, TO THE ART PHOTO OF THE DAY, WHEN I BACKED THE CURSER UP TOO FAR, AND THE LINK TO THE WEBPAGE WAS NO MORE. Chem / Fungus allergies I PROBABLY HAVE QUITE A BIT OF CHEMICAL ALLERGIC REACTIONS THAT ARE EVIDENT INTERNALLY, THAT THE PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN IS NEGLIGENT ON CHECKING, AND THAT THE PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN IS NEGLIGENT ON INFORMING ME OF AND ABOUT. THERE WERE CHEMICAL REACTIONS (ALLERGIES?) THAT WERE EVIDENT, AND THAT I COULD FEEL, WHEN I WAS TAKING OLANZAPINE; OLANZAPINE WEAKED MY IMMUNE SYSTEM. OLANZAPINE IS NO GOOD. AND CLONAZAPAM EFFECTS MY CARDIOLOGY NEGATIVELY, WHEN I DO NOT TAKE IT. MAYBE THE CLONAZAPAM HAS GIVEN ME PERMANENENT IRREVERSIBLE BIOLOGICAL DAMAGE; AND THE CLONADINE TOO, AND THE VALPROIC ACID TOO, AND THE TRAZADONE AS WELL. I NEED LASTING PEACE; TO HELL WITH ALL OF THE CEASELESS SENSELESS CHEMICAL PHARMAPSEUDO HORSESHIT. Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. DR. CATHCART IS COOL. I STILL HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO AFFORD COPIES OF THE BIOCHEMICAL PATHWAYS CHARTS, THAT ARE PRODUCED BY ROCHE APPLIED SCIENCE LABORATORIES, THOUGH. POVERTY IS HIGH, HERE IN OKLAHOMA, AND I GUESS I'M DOOMED TO SINK EVEN FURTHER INTO THAT CATEGORY, ESPECIALLY IF I HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO REMAIN HERE, IN THIS SHITHOLE STATE. THE (INDUSTRIAL) SLUM OF TULSA IS NO GOOD. BUT LIVING BLINDLY; HOW WILL I FIND PEACE, HAPPINESS, AND LIFE SUPPORT, IN COLORADO, ON MY OWN, WITH MINIMAL TO ZERO HELP FROM OTHERS, AS IT IS IN MY LIFE AT THIS TIME? LIKE A FRIEND OF MINE SAID: MOST PEOPLE HERE IN TULSA ARE ALWAYS ANGRY, AND ARE ALWAYS FED UP WITH THINGS. SOUNDS A LOT LIKE ME TOO. THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS SHIT, AND THE FINANCIAL SYSTEM IS A CORRUPT, AND NEARLY TOTALITARIAN EVIL DICTATORSHIP, IN THIS PODUNK INDUSTRIAL SHITHOLE. Arthritis I DON'T HAVE ARTHRITIS. AT LEAST, NOT THAT I CAN TELL. CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/3a4b8558/attachment-0001.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 10:20:05 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 10:20:20 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] THE ART PHOTO OF TODAY. In-Reply-To: <20050823074836.65702.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050823172005.28868.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo IS THE ART PHOTO AT THE ABOVE WEBLINK, A PICTURE OF THE TERRITORY WHERE YOU LIVE? IT DOES LOOK NICE, IN THAT PHOTO! BUT IS IT SMOG IN THE VALLEY, OR JUST STANDARD CLOUDS ONLY? Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/a1b16202/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 10:31:05 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 10:31:11 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] SONG LYRICS TO: ARE WE THE WAITING, BY: GREEN DAY. Message-ID: <20050823173106.42778.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> SONG LYRICS TO: ARE WE THE WAITING, BY: GREEN DAY: http://www.tophitsonline.com/lyrics.php?songid=8466 --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/fe74ea5c/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 23 11:55:47 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 23 11:56:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] GOING BANANAS. In-Reply-To: <20050823080454.4280.qmail@web50613.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 23, 2005 01:04:54 AM Message-ID: <20050823185547.25032.qmail@mall-net.com> > > YES!!! Tryptophan is important in maintaining a healthy attitude > > toward life. > > MAYBE I NEED AN OVERDOSE OF TRYPTOPHAN??? Well, niacin and tryptophan are synergistic, so if you have trouble with one... you might not do all that well with the other... but I kind of think your problem with niacin may have beendrug interaction based. > We don't know the details. > > THE DETAILS: > > NEUROSIS IN SOCIAL SITUATIONS, CAUSED BY THE SEXUAL ABUSE IN MY YOUTH. > > PSYCHOSIS, FROM EXPERIMENTATION WITH MARIJUANA WITH HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS. > INSOMNIA FROM EXPERIMENTATION WITH METH WITH HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS, IN COMBINATION WITH ABOVE NAMED TWO. Hmmm... those are all psychological diagnoses, with ZERO biochemical diagnoses! A healthy Brain (as opposed to mind) can often (not always) throw off some of this without becoming locked in to the kind of pessimism you seem to be locked in to. Now, I'm not a doctor, not a psychiatrist, so I can't give you other than life style And what pharmaceuticals did they prescribe for the above, and which are you taking? Something just came up.... be back tonight. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 12:23:08 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 12:23:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] The United States And Our Allies. Message-ID: <20050823192308.80857.qmail@web50607.mail.yahoo.com> The United States and our allies need rejuvenation technologies mass produced, with World War II war machine speed, for the benefit of everyone equally. Clyde Lofton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/863cb84d/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 23 12:25:06 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 23 12:25:09 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] THE ART PHOTO OF TODAY. In-Reply-To: <20050823172005.28868.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 23, 2005 10:20:05 AM Message-ID: <20050823192506.43016.qmail@mall-net.com> > > IS THE ART PHOTO AT THE ABOVE WEBLINK, A PICTURE OF THE TERRITORY WHERE YOU LIVE? Yes > > IT DOES LOOK NICE, IN THAT PHOTO! > > BUT IS IT SMOG IN THE VALLEY, OR JUST STANDARD CLOUDS ONLY? Depends on whch photo. The smog gets rather bad. Am on phone now, so can't write. > > Chem / Fungus allergies > Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. > Arthritis > Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. > Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Mail for Mobile > Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > --0-1753321274-1124817605=:27665 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > >


javilk@mall-net.com wrote: >
>

For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices
orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine.
Today's Art Photo

>

IS THE ART PHOTO AT THE ABOVE WEBLINK, A PICTURE OF THE TERRITORY WHERE YOU LIVE?

>

IT DOES LOOK NICE, IN THAT PHOTO!

>

BUT IS IT SMOG IN THE VALLEY, OR JUST STANDARD CLOUDS ONLY?

>

Chem / Fungus allergies
Dr. Cathcart / Vit C.
Arthritis
Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained.
Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd.

>


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> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. > --0-1753321274-1124817605=:27665-- > > --===============2098297317== > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Content-Disposition: inline > > _______________________________________________ > Mad-Scientists mailing list > Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > --===============2098297317==-- > From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 12:42:20 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 12:42:26 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Globalism. Message-ID: <20050823194220.69266.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> Fuck the attempts of the Financial Industrial Komplex, the Pharmacology Industrial Komplex, the Military Industrial Komplex, and the Energy Industrial Komplexes, from their attempts at totalitarian dictatorship over America, and over the entire globe. Fuck Globalism! Clyde Lofton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/b9816a06/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 14:09:47 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 14:09:53 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] (Revised:) The United States And Our Allies. Message-ID: <20050823210948.94952.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> (Revised:) The United States And Our Allies: The United States and our allies, need electromagnetic, and electromechanical resonance, rejuvenation therapy technologies, mass produced, with World War II war machine speed, for the benefit of everyone equally. Clyde Lofton __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/0606a8f5/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 23 14:22:34 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 23 14:22:39 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] THE ART PHOTO OF TODAY. In-Reply-To: <20050823172005.28868.qmail@web50606.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 23, 2005 10:20:05 AM Message-ID: <20050823212234.5063.qmail@mall-net.com> > IS THE ART PHOTO AT THE ABOVE WEBLINK, A PICTURE OF THE TERRITORY WHERE YOU LIVE? Fog Flood V alley is from across the street where I am. That is low clouds / morning fog in the Coyote Valley. > IT DOES LOOK NICE, IN THAT PHOTO! > > BUT IS IT SMOG IN THE VALLEY, OR JUST STANDARD CLOUDS ONLY? there is usually a layer of smog both at the top of the clouds, and another often below them. the temperature inversion which leads to such clouds keeps the smog down there. It does overflow the ridge at times, and I don't do very well when it comes, I usually end up taking a nap at that time because I am not very energetic, cogent, etc. But it clears when the winds blow the other way, and then I feel good again.. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Tue Aug 23 15:26:10 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Tue Aug 23 15:26:17 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] truly Mad! Message-ID: <006c01c5a831$aaa91a00$6601a8c0@mikey> http://www.theonion.com/2056-06-22/ From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 20:33:27 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 20:33:36 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] truly Mad! In-Reply-To: <006c01c5a831$aaa91a00$6601a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050824033327.3724.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Michael Best < mbest@triad.rr.com > wrote: http://www.theonion.com/2056-06-22/ A VERY MAD WEBSITE! --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/7b612f00/attachment.html From texastjs at swbell.net Tue Aug 23 20:36:51 2005 From: texastjs at swbell.net (L.R. McGuire-Smith) Date: Tue Aug 23 20:37:00 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] RE:Several things In-Reply-To: <20050817190002.3776E3982A@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: I was excited to see the mention of geodome living, striving to succeed and mad cow type scrapie in cats. I have two cats, really just one but her "baby" is visiting our home right now with my daughter, who is visiting as well. I read where a copper deficiency may be an instigating factor in human forms of mad cow, maybe supplement with Copper for your cats? Maybe worth a try-who knows? Find out what the upper limit dose for cats is, and give it a try, it is very, very sad to have to keep putting ones beloved pets down-I'm so sorry! About domes and Bucky Fuller, I wrote and entered the International Space Elevator Competition with a story about Nanotechnology carbon filaments, ala, the Space Elevator, didn't win-hoped to, but didn't. Anyway, I was excited by the concepts and the contest. About the challenges several of us face, health, financial, personal, etc.,-keep on truckin'! Follow your interests and you will be absorbed and you will succeed. That success may be a small victory by the world's standards, but aren't you in it for the love of it? That's all the satisfaction anyone can ask for. IMHO! Lisa R. Smith -----Original Message----- From: mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG [mailto:mad-scientists-bounces@Mad-Scientists.ORG]On Behalf Of mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 2:00 PM To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Subject: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 42 Send Mad-Scientists mailing list submissions to mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG You can reach the person managing the list at mad-scientists-owner@Mad-Scientists.ORG When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Mad-Scientists digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re: NO REPLY. (javilk@mall-net.com) 2. Re: Etc., again (Vesta111@aol.com) 3. Re: Mad Cat disease? (javilk@mall-net.com) 4. WOW! (Michael Best) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 06:46:45 +0000 (GMT) From: javilk@mall-net.com Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Re: NO REPLY. To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Message-ID: <20050817064645.60834.qmail@mall-net.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I am not always at the computer. I have a bunch of projects that I'm not getting done too! Today, Barry didn't bring the water truck till late. My laundry was delayed. I did some work on my solar system as the place cooled in the evening. I also called a bunch of people trying to get them to rent to me, and worked on my rental tracking system, etc. And still did nothing about the real Mad Scientist projects that I want to do to prove to the world that... well... You know, I don't really know what I want to prove to the world. I just want to prove to MYSELF that I was right in some ideas about physics and chemistry, or if not right, figure out how to do them anyway! If they make a profit, as I think they should, then good. But like any mad scientist, I WANT TO KNOW!!! And the only way I know of finding out, is to do the experiments. Which means a lot of construction work that hasn't taken place in years because of all kinds of other crap going on in my life. But that's life. I invented the web browser in 1982, Clyde. I couldn't sell it for the life of me! I developed word processing utilities n 1978 which I could not sell successfully, I had the vision of what we now call Ethernet, but didn't have the knowledge of how to build it. In fact, I devised the basic signal collision system that is the essence of Ethernet back in 1978. I wanted to start a search engine in 1996, but didn't know how till 1998, when tinkering with that lead to another business that I ran from 1998 to 9/11/2001, when the economy fell apart, killing some of my clients and resources. I was trying to start an on-line auction system in 1995, did start some chat page communities which didn't take off like some of the big ones, etc. etc. etc. etc.. I invented a bunch of other things that I just could not get anyone to buy. That's just life. Each time we try, we learn more. The only failure, is the person who stops trying. The game of life is not over. Till it's over, you don't know if you are going to be a winner, or a loser! They say that the first two companies you start will not do well. Yep. I've started several small companies, and they just kind of staggered around making barely enough for me to live. But I learned! And it beat the heck out of working non-stop for some company that I didn't own. Unfortunately, my priority now has to be finding a place I can move to. I've negotiated an intersting place; but the road is too steep. So I'm back on the market looking for another place here in the mountains. But you know, Clyde, any day you wake up breathing is a great day! As I joke with my father regarding my predicament here on the mountain, "But no one is shooting at me!" So life is a hell of a lot better for me, than what my father went through in WW-II in Europe. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 03:06:09 EDT From: Vesta111@aol.com Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] Etc., again To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Message-ID: <13d.197422b7.30343be1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" In a message dated 8/13/2005 9:27:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: WELDED-ONE-PIECE-FRAMED MICRO TETRA-GEODESIC DOMES, BUILT LIKE TANKS, REQUIRING AS MINIMAL MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE, ARE A DREAM; THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IT PULL OFF, INTO THE MAKING IT INTO A TRUE REALITY. Clyde, how surprising !!!! As different as we too people can be, we share the same dream. Buckminister Fuller was awesome. I have thought of placing a dome in the ground, perhaps 10 feet to 20 feet down, energy savings, you could live 50 feet from a busy airport and have complete silence. Lousy view but everything has a down side. Regards Vesta No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050817/710e 8d22/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:14:20 +0000 (GMT) From: javilk@mall-net.com Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad Cat disease? To: mbest@triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Cc: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG Message-ID: <20050817071420.73328.qmail@mall-net.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Not enough goats in the USA to eat the cow residue! Its made into = > > > dog food and cat food. =20 > > Yep! And those nasty prions then get into my kitties! This would = > explain > why I've seen several die this past 18 months from a mysterious disease = > with > symptomology resembling scrapie and/or BSE. Their vet had no idea what = ... > Just ask Hitler, Stalin, or Mao. Mike, those three evil people did so much worse than anything you've said or encountered! They willingly sacrificed significant portions of their populations, putting living human beings into slave camps where they were tortured, malnourished, and murdered. What agribusiness does here is not deliberate evil, and certainly not on the scale of Mao or Stalin! Hitler was just a piker who was stupid enough to pick on a rather vocal people. You don't hear that over half of the people in work/death camps were NOT Jewish, because the other groups were not as vocal, educated, or determined. What some of us smarter folks see happening is caused by a lot of beliefs which are self serving and erroneous; but not the kind of deliberate evils which those three did. (You can add Phol Pot to that list.) Come on, Mike, you're the one who's supposedly big on realism. Look at the comparative scale of things. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 12:01:54 -0400 From: "Michael Best" Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WOW! To: Message-ID: <010f01c5a344$fd5fba20$6501a8c0@mikey> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have no idea what to think of this yet; I haven't the time right now to check the links. But it seems like it needs to be posted here! http://www.lateralscience.co.uk/?tesla?/glitesla.html -MB ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 42 ********************************************** From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 22:04:08 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 22:04:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] VESTA. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050824050409.31365.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> I APOLOGIZE, VESTA, FOR NOT REPLYING SOONER: In a message dated 8/13/2005 9:27:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: WELDED-ONE-PIECE-FRAMED MICRO TETRA-GEODESIC DOMES, BUILT LIKE TANKS, REQUIRING AS MINIMAL MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE, ARE A DREAM; THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IT PULL OFF, INTO THE MAKING IT INTO A TRUE REALITY. Clyde, how surprising !!!! As different as we too people can be, we share the same dream. YEAH; A WELDED ONE PIECE METAL DOME HOME, AND PERHAPS A SIDE SCIENCE / WORK LAB TOO, BUILT WITH TANK STRENGTH, AGAINST TORNADO AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS, PREFERABLY MADE OF BRONZE, BUT THE COSTS OF THAT WOULDN'T BE PRACTICAL AT ALL, AND SO ALUMINUM WOULD SUFFICE. Buckminister Fuller was awesome. I AGREE! I PICTURE MY TETRA-GEODOME WITH AN ABSOLUTE PERFECT BEACON LIGHT, CENTERED PERFECTLY ON THE TOP OF IT, ON A SMALL TOWER, AT DIRECT CENTER. TEMCOR IS THE DAMN BEST GEODESIC DOME FABRICATOR THAT I KNOW OF, FROM MY RESEARCH: http://www.temcor.com/ AND FLASH TECHNOLOGY HAS THE WORLD'S BEST RADIO TOWER BEACONS, PRESENTLY IN EXISTANCE; (THE ON/OFF TIME CONSTANTS ARE VERY COOL, WITH WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH THEIR TOWER BEACON LAMP FLASHERS): http://www.flashtechnology.com/ I have thought of placing a dome in the ground, perhaps 10 feet to 20 feet down, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT PLACING THE DOME DOWN 20 FEET INTO THE GROUND, BUT 5 TO 10 FEET MIGHT BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. I'D WANT MY DOME TO HAVE A PERFECT ANCHORMENT TO THE EARTH, FOR MAXIMUM RESITANCE TO THE WEARING AND TEARING, OF BOTH THE ELEMENTS, AND MAXIMUM RESITANCE TO TIME ITSELF. energy savings, YEAH; ENERGY SAVINGS FROM A GEODOME, ARE AWESOME, COMPARED TO LIVING IN CHEAP TOOTHPICK STICK FRAMED, CHEAP BRICK COATED, SHITROCK INFERIOR INTERIOR COATED, MIDDLE CLASS CRAP FASCIST FABRICATED BOXES. you could live 50 feet from a busy airport and have complete silence. Lousy view but everything has a down side. SORRY I DIDN'T ORIGINALLY REPLY BACK, TO THIS E-MAIL. I'VE HAD SO MANY PILED UP E-MAILS, THAT I FORGOT ABOUT THE EXISTANCE OF THIS ONE, TO REPLY BACK, IN THE PAST, AND I HAD TO GO TO THE 'HOSPITAL' FOR TWO WEEKS, AND HAVE ALSO BEEN REALLY TIRED FROM SO MUCH WORK. Regards Vesta SINCERELY, CLYDE No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 42 ********************************************** _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list: Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/0daeadb7/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Tue Aug 23 22:45:13 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Tue Aug 23 22:45:19 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] RE:Several things In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050824054514.27425.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> "L.R. McGuire-Smith" wrote: I was excited to see the mention of geodome living, striving to succeed and mad cow type scrapie in cats. I have two cats, really just one but her "baby" is visiting our home right now with my daughter, who is visiting as well. I read where a copper deficiency I'VE HEARD THAT COPPER IS DEADLY, IF INGESTED. may be an instigating factor in human forms of mad cow, maybe supplement with Copper for your cats? Maybe worth a try-who knows? Find out what the upper limit dose for cats is, and give it a try, it is very, very sad to have to keep putting ones beloved pets down-I'm so sorry! About domes and Bucky Fuller, BUCKMINSTER FULLER WAS VERY COOL, LIKE NIKOLA TESLA, PHILO FARNSWORTH, AND MICHAEL FARADAY. LIKE VESTA, I WANT TO BUILD MY OWN GEODOME. I wrote and entered the International Space Elevator Competition I JUST WANT TO BUILD MY OWN PRIVATE, SMALL SCALE SPACESHIP, GO INTO LOW EARTH ORBIT AT BEST, AND INGEST A SUFFICIENT DOSE OF CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, TO MAKE DEATH QUICK AND SIMPLE. GRAVITY WILL EVENTUALLY TAKE ME BACK DOWN TO THIS HELL HOLE DISEASE WORLD OF PLANET EARTH THOUGH, BUT WHAT THE HELL; CAUSE I'D BE DEAD, BUT WOULD ENJOY MY LAST MOMENTS OF LIFE, WITH A BEAUTIFUL VIEW OF THE SOME OF THE BEAUTY THAT THIS PLANET HOLDS, OBSERVING THE EARTH FROM THE OUTSIDE, INSTEAD OF FROM THE ENDLESS INSANE INSIDE. with a story about Nanotechnology I'VE WONDERED IF HIGH VOLTAGE NANOPROBES EXIST??? ARE THERE SUCH??? carbon filaments, ala, the Space Elevator, didn't win-hoped to, but didn't. Anyway, I was excited by the concepts and the contest. About the challenges several of us face, health, financial, personal, etc.,-keep on truckin'! YEAH; I'M A SURVIVOR, BARELY SURVIVING. HEALTH, WEALTH, AND PERSONAL PROBLEMS ALWAYS INTERFERE WITH PROGRESS. Follow your interests and you will be absorbed and you will succeed. 1. ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT. 2. GROWING NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWERS, FOR CONSUMPTION. 3. FINALLY SOMEDAY, BUYING MY OWN CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, FOR PRIVATE LAB USE / BUILDING MY OWN MICRO HOSPITAL. 4. A TALKING CLOCK PROJECT, SYNCHRONIZABLE TO THE G.P.S., FOR AID TO BLIND FOLKS, BROADCASTERS, AND TO RADIO AMATEUR REPEATER OWNERS; MAINLY FOR USE WITH LOW POWER BROADCAST TRANSLATORS, FOR CONSTANT 24/7 TIME, TEMPERATURE, AND WEATHER REPORTING; ENTIRELY 100% AUTOMATED; MAYBE EVEN USEFUL TO AIRCRAFT AS WELL, FOR BOTH NAVIGATION AND INFORMATION; I DON'T KNOW. That success may be a small victory by the world's standards, but aren't you in it for the love of it? DAMN STRAIGHT! That's all the satisfaction anyone can ask for. IMHO! I'LL PROBABLY NEVER MAKE IT TO FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE AND SUCCESS THOUGH. MAYBE I NEED TO GO SEE WHAT BUSINESS SCHOOLS TEACH, AND SEE IF THEY ALSO CHURN OUT ENDLESS FAILURES, AS THE MODERN FASCIST COMMUNIST PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL SHITSTEM DOES. DOES THE FINANCIAL INTRA-FUCTURE CONTROL PUBLIC EDUCATION TOO??? THEY'RE IN BED TOGETHER WITH THE ENERGY INTRA-FUCKTURE, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, AND THE PHARMACOLOGY INTRA-FUCKTURES. Lisa R. Smith CLYDE End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 42 ********************************************** _______________________________________________ Mad-Scientists mailing list: Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/3b90c684/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Aug 23 23:18:31 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Tue Aug 23 23:18:35 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] RE:Several things In-Reply-To: <20050824054514.27425.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 23, 2005 10:45:13 PM Message-ID: <20050824061831.45043.qmail@mall-net.com> > "L.R. McGuire-Smith" wrote: > I was excited to see the mention of geodome living, striving to succeed and > mad cow type scrapie in cats. I have two cats, really just one but her > "baby" is visiting our home right now with my daughter, who is visiting as > well. I read where a copper deficiency > > I'VE HEARD THAT COPPER IS DEADLY, IF INGESTED. I was getting small, pencil dot sized pellets of pure electrodeposited ccopper as supplements back in the mid to late 80's. I didn't seem to notice any rigor mortis... And we use to have real copper water pipes for a long, long time. So I doubt there's a proble with copper if you don't take too much. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 09:42:15 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 24 09:42:22 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK. Message-ID: <20050824164215.37404.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> WEBLINK: http://www.t-shirthumor.com/Merchant2/products/chen.html?Category_Code=newr --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/1107ac20/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 11:30:34 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 24 11:30:42 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS. Message-ID: <20050824183034.25755.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> THE UNITED STATES AND ALLIES, NEED ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS MADE. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/b12058d4/attachment.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 24 12:49:11 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 24 12:49:18 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Essential micronutrients Message-ID: <00c501c5a8e4$e6a43c20$6601a8c0@mikey> Copper, chromium, zinc, and a host of other "poisons," even arsenic, are essential micronutrients. 150 milligrams of arsenic will kill a full-grown man, but without a few nanograms of arsenic in our bodies, our neurological systems would not function, and we would be just as dead. The dose defines the toxin. Some chemicals, like water, are only toxic in extremely high doses- several gallons for water, but everything is toxic in a large enough dose. A handful of table salt will kill. The term "poison" usually refers to a substance that is toxic in small quantities. Most drugs are toxic, but as a rule of thumb, the toxic dose (LDlo, or the lowest dose that causes mortality for any individual) is at least twice the therapeutically effective dose. For most drugs, this ratio is much, much larger. But the dose makes the poison. -MB From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 24 13:26:28 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 24 13:26:46 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS. In-Reply-To: <20050824183034.25755.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 24, 2005 11:30:34 AM Message-ID: <20050824202628.63881.qmail@mall-net.com> > THE UNITED STATES AND ALLIES, NEED ABSOLUTE > HEALTH STANDARDS MADE. I would strongly oppose this, as I had in the past, when Hillary Clinton wanted to create a health care plan with mandatory treatments defined by a committee. No alternative medicine, no freedom of choice, etc. That is where absolute standards go. That means, YOU could be treated against your will, as well as blocked from having alternative treatments, such as non-pharmaceutical nutritional treatments. Freedom is the right to chose what you do, even if it may harm you. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 24 14:24:11 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 24 14:24:16 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Reactionless propulsion 1 Message-ID: <00ec01c5a8f2$2c2bff00$6601a8c0@mikey> Where I started, but I consider this ion reaction propulsion, not true reactionless propulsion. http://www.fw.hu/bmiklos2000/ From texastjs at swbell.net Wed Aug 24 15:11:50 2005 From: texastjs at swbell.net (Tim) Date: Wed Aug 24 15:13:23 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 65 In-Reply-To: <20050824190003.3252C39829@kang.vjc.com> References: <20050824190003.3252C39829@kang.vjc.com> Message-ID: <430CF0A6.7040108@swbell.net> mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG wrote: >Send Mad-Scientists mailing list submissions to > mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > mad-scientists-request@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >You can reach the person managing the list at > mad-scientists-owner@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Mad-Scientists digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. VESTA. (clyde lofton) > 2. Re: RE:Several things (clyde lofton) > 3. Re: RE:Several things (javilk@mall-net.com) > 4. WEBLINK. (clyde lofton) > 5. ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS. (clyde lofton) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:04:08 -0700 (PDT) >From: clyde lofton >Subject: [Mad-Scientists] VESTA. >To: Mad-Scientists Discussion List >Message-ID: <20050824050409.31365.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > >I APOLOGIZE, VESTA, FOR NOT REPLYING SOONER: > >In a message dated 8/13/2005 9:27:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, >clydelofton@yahoo.com writes: > >WELDED-ONE-PIECE-FRAMED MICRO TETRA-GEODESIC DOMES, BUILT LIKE TANKS, REQUIRING AS MINIMAL MAINTENANCE AS POSSIBLE, ARE A DREAM; THOUGH I DON'T KNOW HOW TO IT PULL OFF, INTO THE MAKING IT INTO A TRUE REALITY. > > >Clyde, how surprising !!!! As different as we too people can be, we >share the same dream. > >YEAH; A WELDED ONE PIECE METAL DOME HOME, AND PERHAPS A SIDE SCIENCE / WORK LAB TOO, BUILT WITH TANK STRENGTH, AGAINST TORNADO AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS, PREFERABLY MADE OF BRONZE, BUT THE COSTS OF THAT WOULDN'T BE PRACTICAL AT ALL, AND SO ALUMINUM WOULD SUFFICE. > > >Buckminister Fuller was awesome. > >I AGREE! > >I PICTURE MY TETRA-GEODOME WITH AN ABSOLUTE PERFECT BEACON LIGHT, CENTERED PERFECTLY ON THE TOP OF IT, ON A SMALL TOWER, AT DIRECT CENTER. > >TEMCOR IS THE DAMN BEST GEODESIC DOME FABRICATOR THAT I KNOW OF, FROM MY RESEARCH: > >http://www.temcor.com/ > >AND FLASH TECHNOLOGY HAS THE WORLD'S BEST RADIO TOWER BEACONS, PRESENTLY IN EXISTANCE; (THE ON/OFF TIME CONSTANTS ARE VERY COOL, WITH WHAT THEY CAN DO WITH THEIR TOWER BEACON LAMP FLASHERS): > >http://www.flashtechnology.com/ > >I have thought of placing a dome in the ground, perhaps 10 feet to 20 feet down, > >I DON'T KNOW ABOUT PLACING THE DOME DOWN 20 FEET INTO THE GROUND, BUT 5 TO 10 FEET MIGHT BE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. > >I'D WANT MY DOME TO HAVE A PERFECT ANCHORMENT TO THE EARTH, FOR MAXIMUM RESITANCE TO THE WEARING AND TEARING, OF BOTH THE ELEMENTS, AND MAXIMUM RESITANCE TO TIME ITSELF. > >energy savings, > >YEAH; ENERGY SAVINGS FROM A GEODOME, ARE AWESOME, COMPARED TO LIVING IN CHEAP TOOTHPICK STICK FRAMED, CHEAP BRICK COATED, SHITROCK INFERIOR INTERIOR COATED, MIDDLE CLASS CRAP FASCIST FABRICATED BOXES. > >you could live 50 feet from a busy airport and have complete silence. Lousy view but everything has a down side. > >SORRY I DIDN'T ORIGINALLY REPLY BACK, TO THIS E-MAIL. > >I'VE HAD SO MANY PILED UP E-MAILS, THAT I FORGOT ABOUT THE EXISTANCE OF THIS ONE, TO REPLY BACK, IN THE PAST, AND I HAD TO GO TO THE 'HOSPITAL' FOR TWO WEEKS, AND HAVE ALSO BEEN REALLY TIRED FROM SO MUCH WORK. > >Regards Vesta > >SINCERELY, CLYDE > > >No man survives when freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails, And >those who cry 'appease, appease' Are hanged by those they tried to please." > > >End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 42 >********************************************** > >_______________________________________________ >Mad-Scientists mailing list: >Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG > >http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/0daeadb7/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:45:13 -0700 (PDT) >From: clyde lofton >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] RE:Several things >To: Mad-Scientists Discussion List >Message-ID: <20050824054514.27425.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > >"L.R. McGuire-Smith" wrote: >I was excited to see the mention of geodome living, striving to succeed and >mad cow type scrapie in cats. I have two cats, really just one but her >"baby" is visiting our home right now with my daughter, who is visiting as >well. I read where a copper deficiency > >I'VE HEARD THAT COPPER IS DEADLY, IF INGESTED. > >may be an instigating factor in human forms of mad cow, maybe supplement with Copper for your cats? Maybe worth a try-who knows? Find out what the upper limit dose for cats is, and give it a try, it is very, very sad to have to keep putting ones beloved pets down-I'm so sorry! About domes and Bucky Fuller, > >BUCKMINSTER FULLER WAS VERY COOL, LIKE NIKOLA TESLA, PHILO > >FARNSWORTH, AND MICHAEL FARADAY. > >LIKE VESTA, I WANT TO BUILD MY OWN GEODOME. > >I wrote and entered the International Space Elevator Competition > >I JUST WANT TO BUILD MY OWN PRIVATE, SMALL SCALE SPACESHIP, GO INTO LOW EARTH ORBIT AT BEST, AND INGEST A SUFFICIENT DOSE OF CYANIDE OR ARSENIC, TO MAKE DEATH QUICK AND SIMPLE. > >GRAVITY WILL EVENTUALLY TAKE ME BACK DOWN TO THIS HELL HOLE DISEASE WORLD OF PLANET EARTH THOUGH, BUT WHAT THE HELL; CAUSE I'D BE DEAD, BUT WOULD ENJOY MY LAST MOMENTS OF LIFE, WITH A BEAUTIFUL VIEW OF THE SOME OF THE BEAUTY THAT THIS PLANET HOLDS, OBSERVING THE EARTH FROM THE OUTSIDE, INSTEAD OF FROM THE ENDLESS INSANE INSIDE. > >with a story about Nanotechnology > >I'VE WONDERED IF HIGH VOLTAGE NANOPROBES EXIST??? > >ARE THERE SUCH??? > > >carbon filaments, ala, the Space Elevator, didn't win-hoped to, but didn't. >Anyway, I was excited by the concepts and the contest. About the challenges >several of us face, health, financial, personal, etc.,-keep on truckin'! > >YEAH; I'M A SURVIVOR, BARELY SURVIVING. > >HEALTH, WEALTH, AND PERSONAL PROBLEMS ALWAYS INTERFERE WITH PROGRESS. > > >Follow your interests and you will be absorbed and you will succeed. > >1. ELECTROMAGNETIC BRAINWAVE ENTRAINMENT. > >2. GROWING NELUMBO LOTUS FLOWERS, FOR CONSUMPTION. > >3. FINALLY SOMEDAY, BUYING MY OWN CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE, FOR PRIVATE LAB USE / BUILDING MY OWN MICRO HOSPITAL. > >4. A TALKING CLOCK PROJECT, SYNCHRONIZABLE TO THE G.P.S., FOR AID TO BLIND FOLKS, BROADCASTERS, AND TO RADIO AMATEUR REPEATER OWNERS; MAINLY FOR USE WITH LOW POWER BROADCAST TRANSLATORS, FOR CONSTANT 24/7 TIME, TEMPERATURE, AND WEATHER REPORTING; ENTIRELY 100% AUTOMATED; MAYBE EVEN USEFUL TO AIRCRAFT AS WELL, FOR BOTH NAVIGATION AND INFORMATION; I DON'T KNOW. > >That success may be a small victory by the world's standards, but aren't you in >it for the love of it? > >DAMN STRAIGHT! > >That's all the satisfaction anyone can ask for. IMHO! > > >I'LL PROBABLY NEVER MAKE IT TO FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE AND SUCCESS THOUGH. > >MAYBE I NEED TO GO SEE WHAT BUSINESS SCHOOLS TEACH, AND SEE IF THEY ALSO CHURN OUT ENDLESS FAILURES, AS THE MODERN FASCIST COMMUNIST PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL SHITSTEM DOES. > >DOES THE FINANCIAL INTRA-FUCTURE CONTROL PUBLIC EDUCATION TOO??? > >THEY'RE IN BED TOGETHER WITH THE ENERGY INTRA-FUCKTURE, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, AND THE PHARMACOLOGY INTRA-FUCKTURES. > >Lisa R. Smith > >CLYDE > > >End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 42 >********************************************** > >_______________________________________________ >Mad-Scientists mailing list: >Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050823/3b90c684/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 06:18:31 +0000 (GMT) >From: javilk@mall-net.com >Subject: Re: [Mad-Scientists] RE:Several things >To: mad-scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >Message-ID: <20050824061831.45043.qmail@mall-net.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > >>"L.R. McGuire-Smith" wrote: >>I was excited to see the mention of geodome living, striving to succeed and >>mad cow type scrapie in cats. I have two cats, really just one but her >>"baby" is visiting our home right now with my daughter, who is visiting as >>well. I read where a copper deficiency >> >>I'VE HEARD THAT COPPER IS DEADLY, IF INGESTED. >> >> > > I was getting small, pencil dot sized pellets of pure >electrodeposited ccopper as supplements back in the mid to late 80's. >I didn't seem to notice any rigor mortis... > > And we use to have real copper water pipes for a long, long time. >So I doubt there's a proble with copper if you don't take too much. > >-J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) >CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. >Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. >My opinions are subject to the availability of information. >I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. > >For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices >orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. >Today's Art Photo > Chem / Fungus allergies > Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. > Arthritis >Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. >Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 09:42:15 -0700 (PDT) >From: clyde lofton >Subject: [Mad-Scientists] WEBLINK. >To: mad-scientists@mad-scientists.org >Message-ID: <20050824164215.37404.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >WEBLINK: > >http://www.t-shirthumor.com/Merchant2/products/chen.html?Category_Code=newr > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/1107ac20/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:30:34 -0700 (PDT) >From: clyde lofton >Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS. >To: mad-scientists@mad-scientists.org >Message-ID: <20050824183034.25755.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > >THE UNITED STATES AND ALLIES, NEED ABSOLUTE >HEALTH STANDARDS MADE. > >CLYDE > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/b12058d4/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Mad-Scientists mailing list >Mad-Scientists@Mad-Scientists.ORG >http://www.mad-scientists.org/mailman/listinfo/mad-scientists > > >End of Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 65 >********************************************** >Clyde-do you suppose maybe you have heavy metals overload? I am on AP therapy, turns out one of the benefits of the Macrolides family of antibiotics helps chelate out toxic metals as well as modulating cytochrome P450 metabolic pathway. I probably have a combined heme and methylation problem and perhaps pyroluric and celiac as well as a buncha' otha' crap wrong. Anyway-got my problems sorted out-but it took a lot of research and I had trouble with local m.d.'s (they were rather limited intellectually-and couldn't believe a patient had more research skills and better diagnostic insight than themselves-ego buster). Copper and any other metal is only important in TRACE amounts-however, if you are slanted a certain way in your metabolic pathways, what works for one person may store too easily in you-or you may not store ENOUGH, like others are able to. Either way you are in trouble if it goes on very long. I found a website that I'd recommend as good for research information on metabolic pathways and supplements-it's called www.acu-cellreasearch.com If this link doesn't work I'll look it up and send it again. Clyde-do me a favor! Please do not cut and paste my stuff and then append your cursing to it, okay, Please! I just hate that-but I care about you-all right? Thanks, Lisa > > From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 15:35:51 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 24 15:35:57 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS. In-Reply-To: <20050824202628.63881.qmail@mall-net.com> Message-ID: <20050824223551.33667.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> javilk@mall-net.com wrote: > THE UNITED STATES AND ALLIES, NEED ABSOLUTE > HEALTH STANDARDS MADE. I would strongly oppose this, as I had in the past, when Hillary Clinton wanted to create a health care plan with mandatory treatments defined by a committee. WHAT WOULD THE LIKELY DECISIONS BE, FROM HER COMMITTEE ON ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS? No alternative medicine, no freedom of choice, etc. I AM REFERRING TO VITAMINS BEING A NATIONAL HEALTH STANDARD, AS WELL AS SPECIFIC FORMS OF ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES BEING A NATIONAL HEALTH STANDARD TOO. That is where absolute standards go. That means, YOU could be treated against your will, I DON'T TRUST OTHERS WHO (WOULD) WANT TO TREAT ME AGAINST MY WILL; THE SAME IS APPLICABLE TO HOW ALL OTHERS WOULD FEEL TOO. as well as blocked from having alternative treatments, such as non-pharmaceutical nutritional treatments. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT. NUTRITION SHOULD BE AN ABSOLUTE STANDARD. WHAT I MEAN IS THAT VITAMINS AND MECHANICAL RESONANT THERAPIES SHOULD BE MADE INTO ABSOLUTE STANDARDS, AND SANITATION SHOULD BE MADE INTO AN ABSOLUTE PERFECT STANDARD AS WELL, TO THE POINT OF FASCIST CONTROL, IF THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES FOR THAT TO SUCCEED. Freedom is the right to chose what you do, even if it may harm you. YEAH, AND I HAVE MADE SOME BAD CHOICES FOR MY SO-CALLED HEALTH CARE, AT THE DOCTORS OF CADUCEUS CRAP, HERE IN TULSA. THE DOCTORS OF CADUCEUS CRAP WANT TO KILL US ALL, IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO DO IT, BY LAW. POPULATION CONTROL DISEASES; M.K. ULTRA; AND OTHER UNETHICAL TORTUROUS SHIT TOO. I NEED THERAPY RIGHT NOW, AND SO DO SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE OUT THERE, WHO ARE BEING DENIED IT, AND WHO ARE BEING DEPRIVED OF IT, SOLELY AND SPECIFICALLY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FUCKING WEALTHY ELITE. I NEED THERAPY TO BE CONTINUOUS, AND NOT ONLY INTERMITTENT. CHIROPRACTIC INTERSEGMENTAL TRACTION TABLE TECHNOLOGY FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE EQUALLY, IN AMERICA, AND WITH THIS COUNTRY'S ALLIES TOO, BUILT HERE IN AMERICA, WITH QUALITY AND PRIDE, AND BUILT TO WHERE IT IS AFFORDABLE FOR EVERYONE, EQUALLY. THE WAR MACHINE NEEDS TO BE TRANSFOMED INTO THE HEALTH MACHINE; AND I'VE LOST MY MIND. MY BACK HURTS. MY HEART HURTS; AND MY BRAIN HURTS. INSUFFICIENT RESOURCES, PREVENTING ENDLESS PROGRESS; AND HEALTHCARE IS FALLING FAR SHORT OF WHERE IT SHOULD BE; AND OF WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE, FOR US ALL, EQUALLY. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. I STILL HAVEN'T FOUND AN ORTHOMOLECULAR DOCTOR IN THIS PODUNK INDUSTRIAL SLUM, OF TULSA. ARE NUTRICIANISTS AND ORTHOMOLECULAR DOCTORS, THE EXACT SAME; OR ARE THEY DIFFERENT? Chem / Fungus allergies I WANT TO KNOW THE CHEMICAL COMPLEX OF CLONAZEPAM, AND THE AREAS OF THE BODY THAT IT HAS ITS EFFECTS UPON, AND WHAT PORTIONS OF THE CHEMICAL COMPLEX OF CLONAZEPAM ARE SO ADDICTIVE, AND WHY THE EFFECTS DO NOT LAST; WHY THE BODY BUILDS UP A TOLERANCE TO THAT DAMNED DRUG. I DON'T LIKE CLONAZEPAM ANYMORE; IT HAS FAILED LIKE ALL OF THE REST OF THE CHEMICALS. IT HAS BEEN THE CLOSEST DRUG TO BEING A TRUE MEDICINE THOUGH, YET IT IS STILL NOT AN ABSOLUTION. I NEED AN ABSOLUTION AND ABSOLUTIONS, AND ONLY PHYSICS HAS THOSE TO OFFER. CHEMISTRY IS ONLY ENDLESS CYCLES OF CLOAKING THE PAIN AND SUFFERING. Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. VITAMIN C HAS BEEN GOOD TO ME, BUT I NEED MORE THAN JUST THAT ALONE. I NEED AN OVERDOSE OF ALL OF THE BEST VITAMINS AND MINERALS: THE ONE'S WHICH WILL EASE MY FUCKED UP NEUROLOGY INTO PEACE, INSTEAD OF CONTINUAL PAIN. AND THAT WILL ALSO BE OF BENEFIT TO EVERYONE ELSE EQUALLY AS WELL. THE GLOBALIZAION OF VITAMIN CONTROL, WILL NOT BE OF BENEFIT TO ANYONE. THIS COUNTRY NEEDS A HEALTHCARE REVOLUTION. THIS COUNTRY NEEDS OTHER REVOLUTIONS, EQUALLY AS WELL. CLYDE --------------------------------- Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/e1a15d2f/attachment-0001.html From mbest at triad.rr.com Wed Aug 24 17:15:09 2005 From: mbest at triad.rr.com (Michael Best) Date: Wed Aug 24 17:15:19 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] The customer/supplier/product relationship Message-ID: <00f901c5a90a$0e040a00$6601a8c0@mikey> Any capitalist business requires three things: A supplier, a product/service, and a customer for the product/service. A century ago, my great-grandfather, Dr. Benjamin W. Best, was a physician. He supplied the service of medical care to his customers, the patients. Seventy years ago, my grandfather, John H. Best, a pharmacist, provided medicines to his customers, ailing patients. Notice the relationship- Supplier= physician or pharmacist, product= medical care or medicine, customer= patient. Fast forward to the 21st century, where underwriters pay for medical care. Now the relationship is: Supplier= Professional Associations of physicians, and multinational drug companies Customer, who pays the bills= insurance underwriters PRODUCT= SICK PEOPLE! The entire paradigm of health care is bassackwards! The money is made not from fee-for-services of healing, but from insurance payments, most notably the Socialist Medicare program. The driving force today, the profit incentive, is to make money from the underwriters by selling the patient's illness to the insurers! The bottom line of medical business today is best served by keeping patients ill; NOT curing their ailment. And all this began when Medicare established "Reasonable and Customary Charges!" How does it feel to be a piece of meat in the butcher's market? That is ALL the patient is today! Simply a product to be sold to the highest bidder. My great-grandfather delivered babies for three chickens, or a ham. I have his old account book. What does that service cost the underwriter today? Are YOU the customer, or the product to be sold??? -MB From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 18:11:06 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 24 18:11:12 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 65 In-Reply-To: <430CF0A6.7040108@swbell.net> Message-ID: <20050825011106.34535.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Tim wrote: >Clyde-do you suppose maybe you have heavy metals overload? THAT COULD BE A POSSIBILITY. BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT CHECKING TO SEE IF THAT MAY BE THE CASE; IF MY PRIMARY CARE PHYSICIAN (M.D.) IS UNWILLING TO HELP ME OUT ON CHECKING INTO THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHERE ELSE TO TURN TO FOR HELP. I am on AP therapy, WHAT IS A.P. ABBREVIATED FOR? turns out one of the benefits of the Macrolides family of antibiotics I'D LIKE TO CHECK INTO COLLOIDAL SILVER, TO FIND OUT IF THAT MAY BE OF SOME BENEFIT TO MYSELF, AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS AS WELL. THE DOCTORS WERE CONTINUALLY DOING PULSE OX. TESTS ON ME, AND MY OXYGEN LEVEL ALWAYS CHECKED OUT GOOD; AND DRINKING LOT'S OF ANTI-OXIDANTS DOESN'T SEEM TO ALTER THE WAY THAT I FEEL, VERY MUCH. *I WONDER IF MY SYSTEM COULD BE FAR TOO ACIDIC, OR FAR TOO ALKALINE? DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN CHECK THOSE TWO THINGS? I'D LIKE TO BE CHEMICALLY NEUTRAL, IF POSSIBLE.* helps chelate out toxic metals as well as modulating cytochrome P450 metabolic pathway. MY CARDIOVASCULAR STRESS IS CONSTANTLY HIGH; COULD IT BE HARDENING, AND / OR DAMAGING MY VESSELS AND ARTERIES? THIS GOAL ORIENTED PERFECTIONISM OF MINE, HAS GONE TOO FAR, AND I AM PAYING FOR IT, WITH OVERWHELMING STRESS, HEALTH TROUBLES. I probably have a combined heme and methylation problem and perhaps pyroluric and celiac as well as a buncha' otha' crap wrong. Anyway-got my problems sorted out-but it took a lot of research and I had trouble with local m.d.'s (they were rather limited intellectually-and couldn't believe a patient had more research skills and better diagnostic insight than themselves YEAH; I'M FINDING OUT NOW HOW LIMITED THAT THE M.D.'S TRULY ARE, INTELLECTUALLY, SINCE MY LEARNING OF THE MAD-SCI FORUM, AND THROUGH MY CORRESPONDING WITH JOHN (JAVILK). -ego buster). Copper and any other metal is only important in TRACE amounts-however, I'VE STARTED TAKING NATURE MADE BRAND, MULTIVITAMINS USUALLY EVERY DAY NOW, WITH AN OCCASIONAL VITAMIN B COMPLEX STRESS REDUCEMENT VITAMIN, ALONG WITH ZINC, ON OCCASION. I HAVE THE NATURE MADE BRAND, MULTIVITAMIN BOX, HERE IN FRONT OF MYSELF, AND IT SHOWS THAT IT CONTAINS 2 mG'S OF COPPER (OXIDE) IN ITS MIXTURE; NEXT TO THAT, IT READS: 100%, UNDER THE %DV AMOUNT PER TABLET, AT THE TOP OF THE COLUMN. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE (% OF) *DV* STANDS FOR. if you are slanted a certain way in your metabolic pathways, I AM NOW WONDERING IF THE DOCTORS OF CADUCEUS CRAP HAVE CAUSED PERMANENT IRREVERSIBLE HARM, TO MY CARDIOVASCULAR ARRANGEMENT. I THINK I AM HAVING DRUG INDUCED SLEEP APNEA NOW, AT NIGHT TIME, DURING SLEEP. I WAKE UP AT TIMES, FEELING AS THOUGH I'M GOING TO SUFFOCATE IN MY SLEEP, AND ALSO WAKE UP WITH NUMBNESS IN MY ARMS AND LEGS AT TIMES TOO, AND BAD ACHING PAINS IN MY CHEST, IN THE MORNINGS. what works for one person may store too easily in you-or you may not store ENOUGH, like others are able to. I NEED BETTER TESTS RUN ON MYSELF, TO DETERMINE EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE WRONG. THOSE TESTES AREN'T CHEAP THOUGH, FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD, AND I AM NOT WEALTHY; SO I CANNOT AFFORD EXPENSIVE TESTS TO BE PERFORMED ON MYSELF. Either way you are in trouble if it goes on very long. IT HAS GONE ON FOR SO LONG NOW THAT I AM NEXT TO DEPERATE FOR ALTERNATIVES THAT WORK, FOR THE REDUCTION OF ALL OF THE OVERWHELMING STRESS THAT I FEEL. PEACE. OH, HOW I DESPERATELY NEED PEACE IN MY LIFE NOW. I found a website that I'd recommend as good for research information on metabolic pathways and supplements-it's called http://www.acu-cellresearch.com I'LL LOOK INTO IT. THANKS FOR SHARING THAT WEBSITE. If this link doesn't work I'll look it up and send it again. Clyde-do me a favor! Please do not cut and paste my stuff DO YOU MEAN BOTH CUT AND PASTE, WHILE ADDING CURSE WORDS TO IT, AT THE SAME TIME? ; OR ARE YOU ONLY WANTING ME TO EXCLUDE ANY CURSE WORDS? and then append your cursing to it, okay, Please! I just hate that- but I care about you-all right? ALRIGHT. Thanks, Lisa SINCERELY; CLYDE __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/f50d50b6/attachment.html From clydelofton at yahoo.com Wed Aug 24 19:03:52 2005 From: clydelofton at yahoo.com (clyde lofton) Date: Wed Aug 24 19:03:57 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: The customer/supplier/product relationship In-Reply-To: <00f901c5a90a$0e040a00$6601a8c0@mikey> Message-ID: <20050825020352.14211.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Michael Best wrote: Any capitalist business requires three things: A supplier, a product/service, and a customer for the product/service. A century ago, my great-grandfather, Dr. Benjamin W. Best, was a physician. He supplied the service of medical care to his customers, the patients. Seventy years ago, my grandfather, John H. Best, a pharmacist, provided medicines to his customers, ailing patients. Notice the relationship- Supplier= physician or pharmacist, product= medical care or medicine, customer= patient. Fast forward to the 21st century, where underwriters pay for medical care. Now the relationship is: Supplier= Professional Associations of physicians, and multinational drug companies PILL PUSHERS: (THE F'ING COMMERCIALISM OF PHARMACOLOGY.). OBSCENE KHEMICAL KOMPLEXES WITH STUPID COMMERCIALISM NAMES APPLIED TO THEM, AND OVERWHELMING AMOUNTS OF INCLUDED FINE PRINT, THAT THE AVERAGE CIVILIAN HAS NO TIME TO GO THROUGH, AND SORT OUT ALL OF THE SHIT. TELEVISION COMMERICIALISM IS SO DAMNED STUPID, PERTANING TO PRESCRIPTION DRUGS, AND THEIR COMMERCIALISM. I GET SO TIRED OF ALL OF THE STUPID TELEVISION COMMERCIALS OF DRUG ADDS / DRUG CAMPAINS. THE COMPLEX FINE PRINT WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS TO THE AVERAGE END USER, INCLUDED WITH PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. THE CADUCEUS CRAP PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX, AND THE DOCTORS THAT THEY OWN AND OPERATE, CONTINUE TO RAKE IN ALL OF THE MOUNTAINS OF INSURANCE INTRAFUCKTURE DOUGH, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT; NOW I'M CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. Customer, who pays the bills= insurance underwriters PRODUCT= SICK PEOPLE! DAMN STRAIGHT! EVEN THE CHIROPRACTOR HAS PERMANENTLY PUT MY SPINE OUT OF ALLIGNMENT, TOO, I THINK, TO WHERE I WILL NEED ADJUSTMENTS FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE, OR UNTIL THE MEDICARE COVERAGE RUNS OUT, AND THEN I WILL BE SCREWED, WITH MAJOR BACK PAIN, AND BACK DISCOMFORT. I THINK MY SPINE WILL NEVER PERMANANTLY HEAL, BACK TO WHAT IT WAS LIKE, WHEN I WAS A NEWBORN BABY. The entire paradigm of health care is bassackwards! YES. AND THE EDUCATIONAL, AND THE FINANCIAL, AND THE INSURANCE INFRASTRUCTURES / INTRAFUCKTURES ARE ALL IN ON IT TOGETHER; YET IT GOES DEEPER THAN THAT. MILITARY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. PHARMACOLOGY INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. FINANCIAL INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. MEDICAL INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. POLITICAL INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. EDUCATIONAL KOMPLEX. BANKING KOMPLEX. AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. MINING INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. PLANT HARVESTING KOMPLEX. ELEKTRICAL ENERGY GENERATION AND DISTRIBUTION INDUSTRIAL KOMPLEX. SLAVE LABOR WORKERS UNIONS. ETC...... AND THERE IS MORE THAT I KNOW THAT I HAVE LEFT OUT, YET CANNOT THINK OF, AT THIS TIME. The money is made not from fee-for-services of healing, but from insurance payments, most notably the Socialist Medicare program. I FEEL LIKE THE PRESIDENTS: THE BUSHES AND THE CLINTON'S EQUALLY, AND MOST OF THE SO-CALLED LEADERSHIP NOW, ARE SOCIALISTS; THEY CARE NOTHING ABOUT SMALL BUSINESS EDUCATION SUCCESS; THEIR ONLY CONCERN IS OVERFLOWING THEIR POCKETS WITH DOUGH, BEFORE THEY ARE KICKED OUT OF OFFICE, AND HAVE NO CONCERN ABOUT EDUCATION TEACHING INDEPENDENT CAPITALISM, AND FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE FOR THE MASSES (WE THE PEOPLE.). F.D.R. STARTED SOCIAL SLAVERY SO-CALLED SECURITY; BUT HERBERT HOOVER, THE PRECEEDING PRESIDENT BEFORE ROOSEVELT, WAS BLAMED FOR THE DEPRESSION. SO WHEN WAS THE END OF CAPITALISM BEING TAUGHT, IN THE MAINSTREAM EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, IF IT WAS EVEN EVER TAUGHT AT ALL, IN THE MAINSTREAM EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM, FOR THE FINANCIAL SUCCESS AND INDEPENDENCE FOR ALL SMALL BUSINESS ENTHUSIAST AMERICANS, EQUALLY? I'M CONFUSED AS HELL. THE FASCIST COMMUNIST SOCIALIST FAILING PUBLIC EDUCATIONAL SHITSTEM, DOESN'T TEACH TO BE INDEPENDENT CAPITALISTS; IT TEACHES JOBS, WORKFORCE, AND IN THE END; SOCIAL SLAVERY SO-CALLED SECURITY. The driving force today, the profit incentive, is to make money from the underwriters by selling the patient's illness to the insurers! The bottom line of medical business today is best served by keeping patients ill; NOT curing their ailment. DAMN STRAIGHT! And all this began when Medicare established "Reasonable and Customary Charges!" How does it feel to be a piece of meat in the butcher's market? That is ALL the patient is today! Simply a product to be sold to the highest bidder. My great-grandfather delivered babies for three chickens, or a ham. I have his old account book. What does that service cost the underwriter today? Are YOU the customer, or the product to be sold??? GOOD POINTS! BUT I'VE LOST MY MIND, AND DON'T HAVE TIME TO GO BACK TO DO ANY FURTHER REVISIONS TO THIS POSTING. CLYDE -MB __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://Mad-Scientists.ORG/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20050824/18a9523d/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 24 21:47:47 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 24 21:47:52 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Re: Mad-Scientists Digest, Vol 10, Issue 65 In-Reply-To: <20050825011106.34535.qmail@web50610.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 24, 2005 06:11:06 PM Message-ID: <20050825044747.23716.qmail@mall-net.com> > I'D LIKE TO CHECK INTO COLLOIDAL SILVER, TO FIND OUT IF THAT MAY BE OF SOME BENEFIT TO MYSELF, AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF OTHERS AS WELL. Only if you have some kind of infection. Longer term use colloidal silver produces a PERMANENTLY gray pallor. I've seen in in some older folks who used colloidal silver before the antibiotics revolution of the mid to late 50's. it does not look good! Maybe not quite "tin man", but mildly disturbing to see. > THE DOCTORS WERE CONTINUALLY DOING PULSE OX. TESTS ON ME, AND MY OXYGEN LEVEL ALWAYS CHECKED OUT GOOD; Why were they doing that? Do they realize that the Pulsox method of sensing oxygen will not detect carbon monoxide poisoning? People with carbon monoxide poisoning typically look a little reddish because CO bound hemoglobin is as red or redder than oxygen bound hemoglobin. > *I WONDER IF MY SYSTEM COULD BE FAR TOO ACIDIC, OR FAR TOO ALKALINE? > DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW I CAN CHECK THOSE TWO THINGS? Urine pH. You can get some pH strips; just get something which is a little narrower in range, say 5.5 - 7, so that there is good color separation between the bands. 5.2 - 7.8 isn't that bad; but it's easier to tell the color change when the band is narrower. This will not tell you blood pH; but in a reasonably healthy person, the kidneys adjust blood pH, so if your urine is alkaline, your blood tends to be also. Sleep apnea is more common in people who have alkaline blood. Acidity drives respiration. Raising blood acidity will make you breathe deeper to adjust it. > I'D LIKE TO BE CHEMICALLY NEUTRAL, IF POSSIBLE.* Don't know if that is a good idea. > helps chelate out toxic metals as well as modulating cytochrome P450 metabolic pathway. I have chelation therapy with disodium EDTA periodically. It helps. If this is a problem, one needs to make sure one is getting enough salt, as those with porphyria tend to dump salts just before a major attack. > MY CARDIOVASCULAR STRESS IS CONSTANTLY HIGH; COULD IT BE HARDENING, AND / OR DAMAGING MY VESSELS AND ARTERIES? If you get enough vitamin C and magnesium, and can keep the blood pressure down, it would be better. Garlic and onions will lower blood pressure, but can get you fired from jobs where you have to deal with the public. (Unless, maybe, you can deal with a good Italian community.) > THIS GOAL ORIENTED PERFECTIONISM OF MINE, HAS GONE TOO FAR, AND I AM PAYING FOR IT, WITH OVERWHELMING STRESS, HEALTH TROUBLES. Remember, it is more perfect to get things done, than to not get them done. And many times, when you get the thing done, you see that something else is needed, so the perfectionism delayed things and made them more expensive. Most needs change. Perfectionism is often very inflexible when it comes to meeting changing needs. > I probably have a combined heme and methylation problem and perhaps > pyroluric and celiac as well as a buncha' otha' crap wrong. Every been tested for porphyria? > Anyway-got my problems sorted out-but it took a lot of research and I > had trouble with local m.d.'s (they were rather limited > intellectually-and couldn't believe a patient had more research skills > and better diagnostic insight than themselves Yep. > > I'VE STARTED TAKING NATURE MADE BRAND, MULTIVITAMINS USUALLY EVERY DAY NOW, WITH AN OCCASIONAL VITAMIN B COMPLEX STRESS REDUCEMENT VITAMIN, ALONG WITH ZINC, ON OCCASION. > I HAVE THE NATURE MADE BRAND, MULTIVITAMIN BOX, HERE IN FRONT OF MYSELF, AND IT SHOWS THAT IT CONTAINS 2 mG'S OF COPPER (OXIDE) IN ITS MIXTURE; NEXT TO THAT, IT READS: 100%, UNDER THE %DV AMOUNT PER TABLET, AT THE TOP OF THE COLUMN. > I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE (% OF) *DV* STANDS FOR. Probably means Daily Value, as opposed to the FDA's RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance), which is usually geared to an underweight sedentary worker. > I AM NOW WONDERING IF THE DOCTORS OF CADUCEUS CRAP HAVE CAUSED PERMANENT IRREVERSIBLE HARM, TO MY CARDIOVASCULAR ARRANGEMENT. > I THINK I AM HAVING DRUG INDUCED SLEEP APNEA NOW, AT NIGHT TIME, DURING SLEEP. > I WAKE UP AT TIMES, FEELING AS THOUGH I'M GOING TO SUFFOCATE IN MY SLEEP, AND ALSO WAKE UP WITH NUMBNESS IN MY ARMS AND LEGS AT TIMES TOO, AND BAD ACHING PAINS IN MY CHEST, IN THE MORNINGS. That almost sounds like carbon monoxide poisoning. It could also be a pillow allergy, misalignment of the neck due to a bad pillow, and some other things. > I NEED BETTER TESTS RUN ON MYSELF, TO DETERMINE EVERYTHING THAT COULD BE WRONG. > THOSE TESTES AREN'T CHEAP THOUGH, FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD, AND I AM NOT WEALTHY; SO I CANNOT AFFORD EXPENSIVE TESTS TO BE PERFORMED ON MYSELF. That is a problem. Some things you can test yourself. Typing speed or speed in tapping some pattern as if on a musical instrument can be a window onto neurological function. Even if you don't find ways of proving or disproving specific hypotheses, you can run tests of performance, such as finger coordination, lung volume, or maybe how many pushups or pullups you can do, and try to correlate them to foods, medicines, and where you are. For example, if you can get some means of measuring lung volume or breath strength, you can see if you do better in the morning, before going to work, later in the day at work, mid evening at home, and just before bed time. This should give you a clue about exposures and allergens. If the morning is bad, then bed and pillow, or laundry detergents become suspect. (You are not using fabric softener, are you? Number one suspect in night time problems is fabric softener and detergent. And then gas appliances and ventilation.) > IT HAS GONE ON FOR SO LONG NOW THAT I AM NEXT TO DEPERATE FOR ALTERNATIVES THAT WORK, FOR THE REDUCTION OF ALL OF THE OVERWHELMING STRESS THAT I FEEL. > PEACE. > OH, HOW I DESPERATELY NEED PEACE IN MY LIFE NOW. When we find and eliminate what is triggering your adrenals, your whole sense of what is going on will change for the better. http://www.acu-cellresearch.com Not a working site. Tried both acu and accu. Do you mean http://www.acu-cell.com perchance? > > Clyde-do me a favor! Please do not cut and paste my stuff DO YOU MEAN BOTH CUT AND PASTE, WHILE ADDING CURSE WORDS TO IT, AT THE SAME TIME? OR ARE YOU ONLY WANTING ME TO EXCLUDE ANY CURSE WORDS? It is well accepted internet protocol to edit out sections of the previous reply which are no longer relevant to the discussion. Curse words and diatribes, we can all do without. They basically show that you are up against the wall and no longer thinking clearly. We know that already from the capitalization. But sometimes that IS life, and we rooting for you, hoping you'll get better and feel more comfortable with your life to the point where you can see beyond the diatribes and stereotypes. Meanwhile, you are telling us that you are alive! And we do want to hear that. -J- (John, Javilk@mall-net.com) CAUTION: I'm no doctor, I only tell computers what to do. Nothing in this document should be construed as medical advice. My opinions are subject to the availability of information. I learn new things each day, and so may change my opinions. For long lasting relief, consult a doctor who practices orthomolecular medicine. Ask, and I'll recommend mine. Today's Art Photo Chem / Fungus allergies Dr. Cathcart / Vit C. Arthritis Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright retained. Copyright (C) 2005, Javilk@mall-net.com . All rights reserverd. From javilk at mall-net.com Wed Aug 24 22:30:57 2005 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk@mall-net.com) Date: Wed Aug 24 22:31:03 2005 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS. In-Reply-To: <20050824223551.33667.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> from "clyde lofton" at Aug 24, 2005 03:35:51 PM Message-ID: <20050825053057.42498.qmail@mall-net.com> > > THE UNITED STATES AND ALLIES, NEED ABSOLUTE > > HEALTH STANDARDS MADE. > > I would strongly oppose this, as I had in the past, when Hillary > Clinton wanted to create a health care plan with mandatory treatments > defined by a committee. > > WHAT WOULD THE LIKELY DECISIONS BE, FROM HER COMMITTEE ON ABSOLUTE HEALTH STANDARDS? Well, the legislation didn't specify the treatments; but I think only two of five committee members were to be doctors. So you know that the first goal is getting costs down. Then they wanted 15 year jail terms for patients asking doctors about other treatments, and 15 year jail terms for offering treatments not in the official book. It was totally nutso! The state owns your carcas and can make you take whatever pharmaceuticals it wants to give you??? Even the soviet union wasn't that bad as long as you stayed out of their psych prisons. http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/1999/06-21-99/vo15no13_overdose.htm And numerous other pages, just look for hillarycare or hillarycare jail > I AM REFERRING TO VITAMINS BEING A NATIONAL HEALTH STANDARD, AS WELL AS SPECIFIC FORMS OF ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES BEING A NATIONAL HEALTH STANDARD TOO. Slowly, the insurance companies are giving in to customer demand. But vitamins are a standard now. Just look at the RDAs put out by the FDA. Unfortunately, like any standard, they can be off. They are generally VERY LOW for specifics like vitamin C, B12, Niacin, etc. And those needs DO vary WIDELY for people, depending upon health, genetics, and occupation. > I DON'T TRUST OTHERS WHO (WOULD) WANT TO TREAT ME AGAINST MY WILL; THE SAME IS APPLICABLE TO HOW ALL OTHERS WOULD FEEL TOO. Yep! If they enacted such legislation, I would have to leave America to survive. And let me tell you, I love this country, and consider my citizenship the highest award I could ever get for anything! M