From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Jun 11 15:11:53 2009 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk at mall-net.com) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:11:53 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Was Velikovski Right? Message-ID: <20090611221153.84571.qmail@mall-net.com> Mathematical simulations of the planets orbiting the sun show some interesting possibilities -- collisions, disintegrations, etc. How likely... probably not very. Probably. But... Read the article. 38mm difference in Mercury's orbit sometimes causes a game of solar billiard balls http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/44568/title/Solar_systems_future_could_be_bumpy --javilk at mall-net.com---------------------------------- Life is to be LIVED regardless of what is out there. Fear destroys life. Destroy your fear and live. ------------------------------------------------------- Not to be construed as psychological advice. Void where prohibited by law. Not available in all mental states. ------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2007, Javilk at mall-net.com Copyright retained. All rights reserved. From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Jun 11 21:07:34 2009 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk at mall-net.com) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 04:07:34 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Was Velikovski Right? In-Reply-To: <20090611221153.84571.qmail@mall-net.com> from "javilk@mall-net.com" at Jun 11, 2009 10:11:53 PM Message-ID: <20090612040734.79325.qmail@mall-net.com> > Mathematical simulations of the planets orbiting the sun show some > interesting possibilities -- collisions, disintegrations, etc. > > How likely... probably not very. Probably. But... Read the > article. 38mm difference in Mercury's orbit sometimes causes a game of > solar billiard balls > > http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/44568/title/Solar_systems_future_could_be_bumpy See also: http://www.jerrypournelle.com/science/velikovsky.htm#Morrison2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Velikovsky http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/gould_velikovsky.html I remember reading some of Velikovsky's works long, long ago. Interesting, and as Stephen Jay Gould says, "gloriously wrong..." but they stirred the pot, made some like me think; and that's the most important part. Science is mostly wrong; but it's the best shot at understanding this universe we have. And we do keep correcting it as we learn new ways of enhancing our perceptions and testing our ideas. So I do wonder what part of today's accepted mainstream science will be thought as outlandishly wrong as Velikovsky's ideas are today. --javilk at mall-net.com---------------------------------- Life is to be LIVED regardless of what is out there. Fear destroys life. Destroy your fear and live. ------------------------------------------------------- Not to be construed as psychological advice. Void where prohibited by law. Not available in all mental states. ------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2007, Javilk at mall-net.com Copyright retained. All rights reserved. From celestialcognition at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 23:16:22 2009 From: celestialcognition at gmail.com (Benjamin Caplan) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 01:16:22 -0500 Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mad Pride Message-ID: <4A31F2B6.4040103@gmail.com> I don't remember where I heard about this; here's hoping it wasn't on this list. (That would be embarassing.) The Icarus Project (http://theicarusproject.net/) is a rallying point for the differently sane. They're calling for major psychological variance to be classified as "illness" only if the person experiencing it wants it to go away, and protesting involuntary psychological medication. They're also trying to build a Mad community and culture. It's not specific to hypercognitive dementia, but it's worth a look. I will destroy you all, Benjamin Caplan. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature Url : http://www.mad-scientists.org/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20090612/8ec462f5/attachment.bin From javilk at mall-net.com Mon Jun 15 16:29:55 2009 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk at mall-net.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:29:55 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Teaching Science vs Learning Science Message-ID: <20090615232955.97404.qmail@mall-net.com> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/feature/id/44343/title/Think_like_a_scientist I like the last paragraph. ???This is a demanding way to teach science, but the payoff is so high," Lehrer says. ???It??pretty surprising that kids learn anything from the current approach to science education.? How did we get into science? For me, I think it was a book my father gave me, a high school science text book, when i was five years old and didn't yet know how to read. The diagrams made sense. I understood it was about how things worked, and wanted to know more. --javilk at mall-net.com---------------------------------- Life is to be LIVED regardless of what is out there. Fear destroys life. Destroy your fear and live. ------------------------------------------------------- Not to be construed as psychological advice. Void where prohibited by law. Not available in all mental states. ------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2007, Javilk at mall-net.com Copyright retained. All rights reserved. From Vesta111 at aol.com Tue Jun 16 05:26:04 2009 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:26:04 EDT Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mad Pride Message-ID: In a message dated 6/12/2009 2:18:07 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, celestialcognition at gmail.com writes: http://theicarusproject.net/) This got my interest and attention. I would like to know how anyone who is different in thinking from others can be thought of as not sane. It is odd that just last week the subject came up about the cost of health care for those who were admitted to hospitals for short term evaluation, those with depression, violent, a danger to themselves or others. My 86 year old mother made a statement that rocked my world. She believes that 90% of these people just need a few weeks vacation away from their problems. She believes that people can become like animals kept boxed up with no way to be them selves [like the apes kept in small cages in a zoo] that go crazy. Too much stress, too much fear, a feeling of captivity and no way out of the circumstances. I can see her point of view, and to top it off, to place people in a confining situation within a hospital can be the last straw. Pressure to conform, and become like others when no two people are alike is a dilly of a problem for some folk. Remember Popeye ---" I am what I am, that is all that I am, I'm POPEYE the sailor man " Knowing one self and knowing your limitations and your skills, no excuses, no explanations needed. In today's world the so called perfectly normal people seem to be going Bonkers. Stress causes them to wipe out their entire family, people over the age of 70 are causing hate killings of total strangers. The kids that cut themselves to release pressure, for the medical society to unearth the reasons does no good if that kid has to return to the very reason they engage in that practice. Get the kid away for a few weeks into a different environment, some place challenging and fun, build up their EGO so they have the strength to face what is to come. Then we have to face the unthinkable, those that thrive on themselves, their lusts to harm others for their own pleasure. Are these people insane or are they evil, could be both. How can Doctors treat a truly evil person who may be perfectly sane by today's thinking ,? Way I see it, as long as the MAD do harm to themselves or others, they may have allot to teach us in alternative thinking, seeing, hearing and feeling in this world. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823265x1201398681/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mad-scientists.org/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20090616/276e520e/attachment.html From javilk at mall-net.com Tue Jun 16 12:09:45 2009 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk at mall-net.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:09:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mad Pride In-Reply-To: from "Vesta111@aol.com" at Jun 16, 2009 08:26:04 AM Message-ID: <20090616190945.69644.qmail@mall-net.com> > I would like to know how anyone who is different in thinking from others > can be thought of as not sane. As I recall, the Greeks had a concept of... At trial, a person could, and usually would be held to the laws of the area. But certain people could claim to be self directed in the sense of being so obviously self consistent, to the point where the normal laws might not apply. I forget the term they used, auto-something. Some food for thought: http://www.answers.com/topic/person > It is odd that just last week the subject came up about the cost of health > care for those who were admitted to hospitals for short term evaluation, > those with depression, violent, a danger to themselves or others. "A danger to themselves..." Now there, is a dangerous concept. First, for the presumed knowledge of "the state" regarding what is good for one. E.G. Cholesterol, saturated fat, salt, etc. Low cholesterol is associated with depression, even suicide. There are considerable examples of people with high cholesterol levels reaching advanced ages; though there is some correlation to the contrary. And the current drugs cause quite a bit of harm by damaging co-enzyme Q 10 production, eventually killing some patients. Lack of saturated fat is as bad as too much, the lack interfering with cell wall function, etc. and leading to severe tendencies to allergies. Coconut oil had caused some marked improvement. (I one such person.) Salt... low salt, common in people with certain medical conditions, can lead to seizures, temporary manifestations of insanity, etc. Yet The State decrees all these things bad, and exhorts it's citizens to avoid them. (Then we get into Ritalin, psychoactive medication to keep people "sane", etc. One may argue it better that we say these people are a clear and consistent danger to society, than themselves, though that too is fraught with risk.) > My 86 year old mother made a statement that rocked my world. She > believes that 90% of these people just need a few weeks vacation away from their > problems. Plausible. The Society for Orthomolecular Psychiatry (since renamed), was founded by those who saw marked to miraculous changes in patients with psychiatric symptoms, when they were given "adequate" levels of various vitamins and/or minerals. The patients, on recovery, often remarked that they did not understand why they had behaved in such stupid ways. (B vitamins, especially Niacin, as well as the minerals magnesium, zinc, molybdenum, copper, etc. commonly had effect. Many cases of schizophrenia were cured with multi-gram doses of niacin.) > She believes that people can become like animals kept boxed up with no way > to be them selves [like the apes kept in small cages in a zoo] that go > crazy. As a consultant in the programming industry, I have indeed seen multiple cases of people in such states. if a manager has had the same problem for six months, he generally has found a means of preventing catastrophe by maintaining homeostasis -- perpetuating the problem. That's when wiser upper management hires a consultant (such as myself) and forces the lower manager to take a mandatory two to three week vacation. If the problem has been going on for longer, a year or two, the recovery rate is not as good. > In today's world the so called perfectly normal people seem to be going > Bonkers. Stress causes them to wipe out their entire family, people over the > age of 70 are causing hate killings of total strangers. There is a think known as "suicide by cop." And something called "the retirement plan", which is similar. Both involve doing something which leads to death; the latter having more purpose behind it than the former. I think the museum killings were somewhere in between, the person not having thought out his plan in enough detail to make it seem purposeful. Of course, if one thinks much about purpose, one would see that even blowing the museum up would not accomplish his goal. Rather, it would create a backlash against it. At best, he could call into question the culture which causes some blacks to be "less desirable"; but then one sees blacks such as Bill Crosby is doing just that in effort to improve such culture. He did such with his TV comedy shows, playing the role of a black doctor and his wife a black lawyer (or was it the other way around?); and later with his rather biting talks about personal responsibility, which actually apply to ALL cultures and races. > The kids that cut themselves to release pressure, for the medical society > to unearth the reasons does no good if that kid has to return to the very > reason they engage in that practice. Get the kid away for a few weeks And insane parrots pull out their own feathers. I think what happens is a feedback loop in memory laid down by adrenaline. Some people jump skateboards, some people jump motorcycles, some people jump the stock and commodities markets, and some people take the cheaper and safer route by just cutting themselves to get the adrenaline and pain without the broken bones, medical and legal bills. Life is about risk and thrills, about adrenaline and pain of various kinds. That most of us eventually find socially acceptable forms of such expression is more due to society. > into a different environment, some place challenging and fun, build up their > EGO so they have the strength to face what is to come. I don't know about ego. I'd prefer to talk about sense of self. My problem is that being a highly cerebral person, i don't have a good sense of physical self. I find that walking helps, that rhythmic setting of one foot in front of the other for a few hours, especially in the dark where the mind is not so distracted from itself and its body by what is around it. Building things with the hands also seems to help; but there seems to be less patience than with the feet; at least in me. But mostly, my sense of self involves what I transform by work of mind, which in the physical world is just a lot of typing to create "artistic arrangements" of light and symbols on screens. (And prase from peers, customers, etc.) But that's not as real as the feeling of fatigue from a long walk. > Then we have to face the unthinkable, those that thrive on themselves, > their lusts to harm others for their own pleasure. Are these people insane or > are they evil, could be both. But do they? Did the people of Enron and Worldcom do that for their own jollies? Or because they though they could bridge a downturn in the corporate fortunes? Madoff, on the other hand... He should hang from a yardarm as a public example. Or maybe just toss him into a crowd of his "investors" with some length of rope attached to each member. After a suitable trial to exonerate the eventual executioners, of course. > How can Doctors treat a truly evil person who may be perfectly sane by > today's thinking ,? Execution comes to mind. Legally vetted and sanctified execution, not the dubious guilt-ridden vendetta type. > Way I see it, as long as the MAD do harm to themselves or others, they may > have allot to teach us in alternative thinking, seeing, hearing and feeling > in this world. Harm to the self is one thing, harm to others should bring some reasoned level of action. --javilk at mall-net.com---------------------------------- Life is to be LIVED regardless of what is out there. Fear destroys life. Destroy your fear and live. ------------------------------------------------------- Not to be construed as psychological advice. Void where prohibited by law. Not available in all mental states. ------------------------------------------------------- Another Javilk (tm) brand post. Copyright (C) 2007, Javilk at mall-net.com Copyright retained. All rights reserved. From javilk at mall-net.com Thu Jun 18 11:44:50 2009 From: javilk at mall-net.com (javilk at mall-net.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:44:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Trepaning making a comeback? Message-ID: <20090618184450.79095.qmail@mall-net.com> From time to time, archaologists find skulls with holes sawed in them, pieces of skull removed, usually with some indication of bone re-growth, often substantial bone regrowth. It has been a mystery why primitives would do anything so risky for no possible gain. Well, there is some evidence that there may be substantial gains from having a piece of one's skull removed. The skull, you see, is an inelastic container. As with all inelastic containers, putting something in, like blood, requires getting something back out. When that does not work so well, as after the skull joints fuse, brain circulation declines and dementias, even Alzheimer's begin. Rendering that container a little more elastic, or no longer closed, can improve brain circulation and hence oxygenation. Some evidence now suggests that can have a marked effect on brain function. Maybe the ancients weren't as stupid as we thought. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227121.400-like-a-hole-in-the-head-the-return-of-trepanation.html http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227121. 400-like-a-hole-in-the-head-the-return-of-trepanation.html -JVV- From Vesta111 at aol.com Thu Jun 18 13:46:56 2009 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 16:46:56 EDT Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Trepaning making a comeback? Message-ID: Ancients Stupid ???? No where as stupid as we are today. Look what I found , I am all for DIY home remodeling and changing the oil in my car however I never cut my own hair. _BBC News | HEALTH | Woman carries out DIY surgery_ (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/651892.stm) _Trepanation_ (http://www.bmezine.com/news/people/A10101/trepan/) Tools needed are one Dremel kit, a cordless electric drill, [ make sure batteries are fully charged ] the bit size is at the discussion of self preference..A good size mirror to view your progress and barf bags for the EMT that may have to be called. Lots of old times stuff being explored today, leach's for blood control, maggots to clean narcotic flesh. Hypnotism or mesmerizing methods, Plants that grow naturally for pain control---you name it. Do you suppose this trepanation is a hold over from the ancient past when a father would ask a nutty son if he had a hole in his head.? **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mad-scientists.org/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20090618/1953baa0/attachment.html From Vesta111 at aol.com Thu Jun 18 15:00:13 2009 From: Vesta111 at aol.com (Vesta111 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:00:13 EDT Subject: [Mad-Scientists] Mad Pride Message-ID: In a message dated 6/16/2009 3:11:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, javilk at mall-net.com writes: > Way I see it, as long as the MAD do harm to themselves or others, they may > have allot to teach us in alternative thinking, seeing, hearing and feeling > in this world. Sorry, I left a word out, it should have read-----As long as the mad do [ NO ] harm to others or themselves.--- Good hearing from you again, science has thousands of doors to open, peek in and decide if there is a lady or a tiger inside before entering. I do not know about you people in the this forum, but for me as I get older every year, health concerns for my Mother at 86 and myself elevate each year. As I have not been in nursing for 20 years, a trip for a medical check up, or tests of any kind blow my socks off. what ARE all these machines, what do they do and who on earth invented them.? I cannot tell you the last time I saw a doctor or nurse wear a stethoscope around their neck. the old blue arm from a blood pressure cuff is gone most times, there is a new way to do that. Example, here. I for no reason, just standing still had my ankle roll over and break. My doctor sent me to this Doctor that had a small machine with a computer screen attached to a cord with a small needle attached. In less then an hour, he after poking me in the leg with the needle about 20 times and giving me shocks-----"Don't taze me Bro" --- this doctor had found the reason for my broken ankle, I have nerve damage but he had no idea how it occurred only that was the reason I broke my bone. Without that machine, say back 5 years ago, I would have been behind a rock and a hard place. I would have continued to break bones in my leg and no Doctor could tell why, only guess. BTW Fleetwood Mac is playing in my area--can't afford the price of tickets, but White Rabbit comes to mind---" One pill makes you taller and one pill makes you small---Go ask Alice when she's 10 feet tall." **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.mad-scientists.org/pipermail/mad-scientists/attachments/20090618/f9ef9d84/attachment.html